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NVIDIA and OpenAI Reportedly Discuss $250 Billion Deal for 10-Gigawatt Ohio Data Center

DukenukemX said:
Because it isn't. AI is just marketing. It's really machine learning, but ML doesn't sound as appealing to investors as AI.
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So is calling it artificial not enough, AAI, artificial artifical intelligence ?

Artificial is already clearly claiming that is not actual intelligence, but a system that look intelligent from the outside (which they objectivly absolutely do).

If it was not via some compression, probabibility, guessing, but actual intelligence, we would remove the A from there and would need to call it synthetic intelligence.

artificial == fake, that the same thing in your sentence, artificial sugar or artificial flower everyone understand it is not actual sugar in the package or flower on the table. While synthetic diamond, insulin or synthetic protein are actual diamond/insulin/protein.
 
LukeTbk said:
So is calling it artificial not enough, AAI, artificial artifical intelligence ?

Artificial is already clearly claiming that is not actual intelligence, but a system that look intelligent from the outside (which they objectivly absolutely do).

If it was not via some compression, probabibility, guessing, but actual intelligence, we would remove the A from there and would need to call it synthetic intelligence.

artificial == fake, that the same thing in your sentence, artificial sugar or artificial flower everyone understand it is not actual sugar in the package or flower on the table. While synthetic diamond, insulin or synthetic protein are actual diamond/insulin/protein.
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Fake typically has negative connotations while artificial does not. Unless I've misunderstood him, he's saying that artificial in the sense of being simulated or a man-made intelligence is a poor name for it.
 
Prince Valiant said:
Fake typically has negative connotations while artificial does not. Unless I've misunderstood him, he's saying that artificial in the sense of being simulated or a man-made intelligence is a poor name for it.
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maybe less on the spectrum, but going with webster:

3
a
: not being, showing, or resembling sincere or spontaneous behavior : fake
an artificial smile

b
: imitation, sham
… the show does include fake … weapons, and although it is not loud, an artificial gun sound will be produce

It often carry negative connotations in comme speak and used to mean fake quite often.

it feel to me people say something that is already in the name which is really good for the current tech.

At least never heard a single one saying stuff like this, bringing a definition of artificial that make calling Fable intelligence being artificial instead of real being some issue.

DukenukemX said:
It's really machine learning,
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That just one step used to construct those system, some of the learning is not machine base (lot of reinforcement learning use human feedback), the agentic / orchestration part have algorithms has well, they do hire a lot of coders, lot of code are written in those AI labs.

Calling it man-made intelligence would tell us nothing if it is real or not, human made proteins are real proteins, human "made" fire or light or flight are all real. artificial or fake (the exact same mearning here) is way clearer to the point.
 
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LukeTbk said:
So is calling it artificial not enough, AAI, artificial artifical intelligence ?

Artificial is already clearly claiming that is not actual intelligence, but a system that look intelligent from the outside (which they objectivly absolutely do).

If it was not via some compression, probabibility, guessing, but actual intelligence, we would remove the A from there and would need to call it synthetic intelligence.

artificial == fake, that the same thing in your sentence, artificial sugar or artificial flower everyone understand it is not actual sugar in the package or flower on the table. While synthetic diamond, insulin or synthetic protein are actual diamond/insulin/protein.
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You're stuck on artificial and haven't questioned Intelligence. Artificial sweeter is still sweet, but artificial intelligence isn't intelligent. It's a marketing word meant to deceive, as most marketing words often do. What's even worse is that they know it and that's why they're building data centers and using more power than people do to power it. They're hoping if "AI" is trained enough then it'll be real AI or AGI. The problem is they've run into a brick wall and don't see to benefit from more training. To make matters worse we now have China giving away their AI.
ai-job-replacement-stonetoss-comic.png
 
DukenukemX said:
Artificial sweeter is still sweet, but artificial intelligence isn't intelligent.
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depend what one mean here, it certainly give that impression when it come up with new math proof like it did this week or pass the turing test (or "decide" by itself that a good way to solve an problem is try to reach the internet and hack a server that could have the answer on it). And artificial you just need to give that impression to be from the exterior.

At artificial flower is in no way a flower (it does not do pollen or turn into the fruit or anything that make a flower a flower) it is fake/artificial.

As human can make real thing synthetically more and more, using synthetic for man made and artificial for fake stuff tend to become the way those word are used.

And more and more, ability to deal with new or difficult situation seem to be more and more real, the skill to use reasoniing to solve hard task, I think we should challenge the idea that they have not artificiallly achieved to actually fake intelligence.
If we go by: Computer systems built to do tasks that usually need human though, yes coming up with new math proof, if it does it in artificial ways and not actual intelligence, that an artificial intelligent system.

DukenukemX said:
To make matters worse we now have China giving away their AI.
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Those run and need those datacenter being built, not sure how it make matter worse.
 
LukeTbk said:
depend what one mean here, it certainly give that impression when it come up with new math proof like it did this week or pass the turing test (or "decide" by itself that a good way to solve an problem is try to reach the internet and hack a server that could have the answer on it). And artificial you just need to give that impression to be from the exterior.
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Turing test isn't the end all be all. Most people can figure out if they're talking to AI or a real person. Just like the Laws of Robotics doesn't apply just because it exists.

And more and more, ability to deal with new or difficult situation seem to be more and more real, the skill to use reasoniing to solve hard task, I think we should challenge the idea that they have not artificiallly achieved to actually fake intelligence.
If we go by: Computer systems built to do tasks that usually need human though, yes coming up with new math proof, if it does it in artificial ways and not actual intelligence, that an artificial intelligent system.
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We don't like to admit that what we do is actually repetitive and repeatable, so of course AI can do these tasks. Realistically, "AI" can't always do these tasks and will make mistakes, but corporations don't mind the mistakes as long as it doesn't result in a lawsuit. The only way AI works is if we ignore AI mistakes and put the burden onto the consumer.
Those run and need those datacenter being built, not sure how it make matter worse.
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Chinese AI only need data centers if you plan to process large amounts of data, which is also as concerning. The benefit of Chinese AI is that we can run it locally, which means the average person doesn't need to use the data center AI.
 
DukenukemX said:
Turing test isn't the end all be all. Most people can figure out if they're talking to AI or a real person.
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When they try to test it, incredibly hard it seem, and AI made for trying to past the test do it better than humans, https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/...-beat-the-turing-test-by-being-a-better-human

And that an important element, people made a giant deal about this before it happened, once it happened it was a very small nothingburger, there is an element that it was easier to fakely mimic response than people thought to it maybe, but also our tendancy that always move the goalpost of what achieveing to fake being intelligent would look like, to keep it an human/high functionning animals realm thing we want to gling on.

DukenukemX said:
We don't like to admit that what we do is actually repetitive and repeatable, so of course AI can do these tasks.
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maybe it did it in a repetive fashion, but solving 10 open math problem, https://openai.com/index/ten-advances-in-mathematics/, is not what considered a repetitive or repeatable task, it combined things few human knew at the same time (while also doign a lot of grunt work)

DukenukemX said:
Chinese AI only need data centers if you plan to process large amounts of data, which is also as concerning. The benefit of Chinese AI is that we can run it locally, which means the average person doesn't need to use the data center AI.
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running 2.8 trillion parameter LLM to code like kimi K3 do take a lot of compute regardless of what you do, that not something the average person can do, you can run small version of them but then do not mistake what those can do with the impressive claim of the full version. unqunantized, you need what 32xh100 gpu ? A middle-big company can do a local little server in a room sure to run this, but not the average person.,

And if a lot of people/worker use it at the same time, then you start to need something more and more similar to OpenAI, it is not like it would take a big datacenter to serve only 12 gpt customer, GPT 5.6 is not that much bigger than this, sol is estimated to be of a similar size (and it is quite fast for a reason), terra much smaller, it is having 1 billion user that make it reach many datacenter sized need, not GPT model being so much bigger.

If kimi K3 reach gpt popularity, it will need datacenter equivalent of compute to do all of it has well.
 
DukenukemX said:
Keep ignoring the will of people and see where that gets you. "Salem Brought a Guillotine To Oppose New Data Center. Company Reps Left, Feeling “Unsafe”."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/salem-brought-guillotine-oppose-data-151045877.html
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I like the fervor, but no one is going to do anything. Every form of mass surveillance in the US has gone through after some mild push back for example. People got shot over cop city in atlanta and it's still open. Americans are trained consumer hogs (myself included), until the top 10 percent are uncomfortable nothing will change.

I'm not anti-ai, but I am against rising costs in a country where people near at the bottom are desperate. I'm also someone who understands that anthropogenic climate change is an existential threat to humanity, and increasing our oil and gas / coal consumption massively to support this tech isn't a good idea. If we were making a conscious effort to build out nuclear and renewables I'd feel a bit better about it, but this is going to be a disaster. At least it still rains in Ohio, I kind of doubt they're having drought issues like the southwest so they can probably deal with the water usage. In general though, it's a declining resource throughout the globe, and in america the west.

I suspect it'll likely get scrapped by the time it's ready to be built, but it's entirely contingent on the global economy. Who knows what energy prices will even be when this thing would break ground, there's no stability any longer.
 
Decko said:
I like the fervor, but no one is going to do anything. Every form of mass surveillance in the US has gone through after some mild push back for example. People got shot over cop city in atlanta and it's still open. Americans are trained consumer hogs (myself included), until the top 10 percent are uncomfortable nothing will change.

I'm not anti-ai, but I am against rising costs in a country where people near at the bottom are desperate. I'm also someone who understands that anthropogenic climate change is an existential threat to humanity, and increasing our oil and gas / coal consumption massively to support this tech isn't a good idea. If we were making a conscious effort to build out nuclear and renewables I'd feel a bit better about it, but this is going to be a disaster. At least it still rains in Ohio, I kind of doubt they're having drought issues like the southwest so they can probably deal with the water usage. In general though, it's a declining resource throughout the globe, and in america the west.

I suspect it'll likely get scrapped by the time it's ready to be built, but it's entirely contingent on the global economy. Who knows what energy prices will even be when this thing would break ground, there's no stability any longer.
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The more I think about it, the less AI I think is involved in those data centers. Considering the amount of surveillance we see going on in USA, it maybe that these are hoarding all the info that is gathered on US citizens. People are angry now over data centers increasing cost, but wait and see what happens when they find out what data is in the data centers?

I also think we're ignoring the fact that these buildings are fitted with hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment that is likely not well guarded. We already have people stealing $100k worth of copper before the data centers are even built. Imagine what thieves could get just taking as much equipment and driving away? Better yet, get the data off the equipment and use it as extortion? It's not like anyone is going to try and stop the thieves, considering all the hate.

View: https://youtu.be/xCzkSyAAf4M?si=Rr1XSmTF-PXBOe2s
 
DukenukemX said:
The more I think about it, the less AI I think is involved in those data centers. Considering the amount of surveillance we see going on in USA, it maybe that these are hoarding all the info that is gathered on US citizens. People are angry now over data centers increasing cost, but wait and see what happens when they find out what data is in the data centers?

I also think we're ignoring the fact that these buildings are fitted with hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment that is likely not well guarded. We already have people stealing $100k worth of copper before the data centers are even built. Imagine what thieves could get just taking as much equipment and driving away? Better yet, get the data off the equipment and use it as extortion? It's not like anyone is going to try and stop the thieves, considering all the hate.

View: https://youtu.be/xCzkSyAAf4M?si=Rr1XSmTF-PXBOe2s
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Yep. Its not like these buildings are going to have massive teams of security. They're going to keep minimal staff on site to provide basic levels of security and hope it all works out. I don't see these corporations hiring the best of the best in terms of physical security.
 
"Power allocation is controlled by US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick"..........This is the most concerning element of this whole discussion. This idiot will do anything as the main architect of corruption at the highest levels in this administration. Nothing will change until the Trump era is finished.
 
DukenukemX said:
The more I think about it, the less AI I think is involved in those data centers. Considering the amount of surveillance we see going on in USA, it maybe that these are hoarding all the info that is gathered on US citizens. People are angry now over data centers increasing cost, but wait and see what happens when they find out what data is in the data centers?

I also think we're ignoring the fact that these buildings are fitted with hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment that is likely not well guarded. We already have people stealing $100k worth of copper before the data centers are even built. Imagine what thieves could get just taking as much equipment and driving away? Better yet, get the data off the equipment and use it as extortion? It's not like anyone is going to try and stop the thieves, considering all the hate.
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you do not need much HBM-dram in general and gpu to simply hoard data, I really do not believe that the more you think about it that you think the less AI is being involved.

They have private security and for a lot of this equipment selling stealled version at a good high price would be nearly impossible (the type of customer for those are not the type of running no supports-stolen goods), reselling for copper and other would be so much lower value than what they are worth for the owner, that if it become an issue security can easily be high enough. There is like 6 level sof strong security, with all real time monitoring, modern cluster are physically giant and really heavy, highly connected (with some hard to quickly cuts)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd33UVZhnAA
 
sharknice said:
Can you imagine how awesome it would be if we had ultra-cheap near unlimited power because we actually built out nuclear?

Can you imagine how awesome it would be if we had ultra-cheap near unlimited compute?


What's going on now with data centers is very similar to what went on with nuclear power plants.
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Considering China has over 4x the capacity of electrical power of the US, they are not limited by power, limited by chips and access to them. US is not limited by chips but electrical power and now memory. Agree on the nuclear power debacle of the 80's. I and two others on the USS Pollack while being decommission at Mare Island California set up training tours for the Nucs, basically to keep us busy, set tour and went to Rancho Seco Nuclear Generating Station, In California basically in Cow pastures. When we arrived, all the Nucs for the most part, protesters were lined up with signs dealing with this plant. We did our tour, plant was emasculate, highly professional as we went through the Turbine/Generator rooms, Control Rooms, refueling area. Anyways this plant was shut down. 918MW of electrical power! Unfortunately, the plant did have <40% capacity, meaning it was down more than up. Had a history of equipment and operator issues. So not all black and white. Plus designed by Babcock & Wilcox, same as 3 mile island, very similar design also did not help.
 
philb2 said:
And what is the governor doing about this? Legislators? The Public Utilities Commission, or whatever it's called in OH.
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According to the video, Ohio voters succesfully voted to remove sales tax exemption to help pay for income tax cuts.... but the governor vetoed it. Jerome township has a moratorium but this only applies to new data centers. Lordstown and Washington Township also have a moratorium and some residents made threats which worked as the plans for a new data center were removed. Vivek Ramaswamy the Republican nominee for governor plans to aggressively expand the build out for Data Centers, which includes Bitcoin mining. I didn't know Bitcoin mining was still a thing?
 
This is California but it gives you an idea how these AI companies can circumvent voting for data centers. "Amazon circumvents community vote for massive AI data center using 45-year-old rules — Gilroy residents locked out of public comment window" You can't even go there to give your opinion on the matter.
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-i...gilroy-residents-out-of-public-comment-window
 
DukenukemX said:
This is California but it gives you an idea how these AI companies can circumvent voting for data centers. "Amazon circumvents community vote for massive AI data center using 45-year-old rules — Gilroy residents locked out of public comment window" You can't even go there to give your opinion on the matter.
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-i...gilroy-residents-out-of-public-comment-window
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Maybe that's because Gilroy is the garlic capital of the world. They have an annual Garlic Festival.
 
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