Breakthrough Extends the Life of Aluminium-Air Batteries

Tsumi said:
Yep, they are nice... Except for one big problem as stated above: it is not rechargeable. There would need to be an infrastructure for recycling and exchange for aluminum air batteries to work. Feasible for planes and ships... Not so convenient for private cars.
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Ah, the article I just read said rechargable in three minutes. Figured it was fishing for cash
 
Snowdog said:
I find it funny that while citing the advantages, they ignore the major glaring disadvantage: Cycle Life.

lithium batteries last 1000-3000+ cycles.

Aluminum Air batteries last 1 cycle!

It's not rechargeable...
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Think about it, that eliminates recharging (time).

You poop out the old battery, eat a new one, off you go. About the same amount of time as filling a gas tank.

And all they have to do to ensure efficiency in that you aren't swapping out a 3/4 used battery (wasting 1/4), is just divide them into smaller units that can be consumed in order. So you have 4 individually swappable "Z" batteries.. (I mean Z should be much larger than AA right? :) ) As you drive they are used up in order. You get down to the last one, go to the battery station, swap 3 out, off you go. Can even be a smaller emergency battery (with say 100 mile range), like a spare tire, that's only used as last resort.

And if they are getting 1500 miles on 1 battery, dividing it into 4 would probably result in single units that are 350 miles each. 4 of those in my car? Hell yes. You'd be making 1/3 the trips to the battery station that we do now to the gas station.

A system like that could work.
 
GoodBoy said:
Think about it, that eliminates recharging (time).

You poop out the old battery, eat a new one, off you go. About the same amount of time as filling a gas tank.

And all they have to do to ensure efficiency in that you aren't swapping out a 3/4 used battery (wasting 1/4), is just divide them into smaller units that can be consumed in order. So you have 4 individually swappable "Z" batteries.. (I mean Z should be much larger than AA right? :) ) As you drive they are used up in order. You get down to the last one, go to the battery station, swap 3 out, off you go. Can even be a smaller emergency battery (with say 100 mile range), like a spare tire, that's only used as last resort.

And if they are getting 1500 miles on 1 battery, dividing it into 4 would probably result in single units that are 350 miles each. 4 of those in my car? Hell yes. You'd be making 1/3 the trips to the battery station that we do now to the gas station.

A system like that could work.
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Think about it. It's borderline unworkable in real life.

These types of batteries have very low power density, which means you have to draw from all the cells in parallel. So you can't consume small individual portions for replacement. Wear will be even, and replacement will be all or none. Which mean significant real world extra waste of swapping partially still good batteries.

Then you need a huge aluminum recycling operation, running a refinery, and all the inefficiency and extra transportation costs shifting tons of spent and new aluminum around, and that only if this became some kind of universal EV battery solution where everyone used the same cells.

Energy usage and costs will be double or more a regular EV that you can just charge with electrons.

And you won't be getting 1500 miles on one battery. That is just someone playing with theoretical numbers, assuming that you replace 1000lbs of Lithium with 1000lbs of Aluminum Air. That wouldn't happen.

This is a non starter for passenger cars.

It might have some niche use cases, flight being the best mentioned so far.
 
GoodBoy said:
Think about it, that eliminates recharging (time).

You poop out the old battery, eat a new one, off you go. About the same amount of time as filling a gas tank.

And all they have to do to ensure efficiency in that you aren't swapping out a 3/4 used battery (wasting 1/4), is just divide them into smaller units that can be consumed in order. So you have 4 individually swappable "Z" batteries.. (I mean Z should be much larger than AA right? :) ) As you drive they are used up in order. You get down to the last one, go to the battery station, swap 3 out, off you go. Can even be a smaller emergency battery (with say 100 mile range), like a spare tire, that's only used as last resort.

And if they are getting 1500 miles on 1 battery, dividing it into 4 would probably result in single units that are 350 miles each. 4 of those in my car? Hell yes. You'd be making 1/3 the trips to the battery station that we do now to the gas station.

A system like that could work.
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Did the math, a battery unit that can do 300 miles in a Tesla S sized vehicle will weigh about 200 lbs. I would think a small lithium ion or NiMH battery would be included for regenerative braking, and that can act as the emergency buffer.
 
Verge said:
just £60/kWh (Battery Price to OEM).

huh? How is that cost effective
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I think they mean the whole battery system, not for the replacement Aluminum Modules, those should be much cheaper. Though really impossible to be cost competitive with recharging an EV with electricity.
 
Some more issues revealed for automotive usage:


These guys are using it as a range extender, not the whole battery and they expect you, to barely use it, and to only swap out cells every 6 months.

This really isn't a quick change process. It will take 15-20 minutes at a service station. The spent aluminum and the spent electrolyte which also contains aluminum must be returned for recycling.
 
Aluminum, old (i.e crud quality at end of its normal useful life cycle) or MUST be new made...if answer is number 1, this is / can be a VERY good thing as pointed out, Alu is "everywhere" however, from my experience in mining industry

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some things they really do NOT like to be mining for many reasons, in this case, safety, Alu mines are normally not all that safe "in general" so they prefer to use / recycle as much of it as they can as long as possible to avoid mining it, much like they do with most what will be nuclear mineral / materials.

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if answer is number 2....well then, means research aside, to put on open market a "high tech" device / product of any sort means $$$, to be "top tier" or not able to work (think medical or Mil spec) means that $$ easy becomes $$$$$$$$ (sort of speak) as it is a "first press" to ensure the metal is "pristine" ...

still cool however.

read on iron-air, as well as them adding asphalt or diamond "dust" to the slurry mix they use when making L-ion..increase speed of charge - capacity - total life cycle count so forth.. as other on this thread point out however *generalized* only matters when it hits the open market.. I add "as long not drive up cost through the roof in an ever increasing GREED priced/based world whose only purpose is to make wealthy even more so and all who cannot afford it to "be wasteful / not with the times"

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soak Aluminum in oil works like gangbusters, that is / sounds as "simple" as them adding a bit of "crud" slurry mix (maybe was on accident they decided to pursue)... IMO that is a problem with University etc doing such, they want to get $$$$$$ for that research / hold patents etc which is another major can of worms holding back "the good stuff" for us all

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I'm going to assume when inevitably nothing comes of this, it'll just be fuel for another "big oil took this guy out" conspiracy.
 
NightReaver said:
I'm going to assume when inevitably nothing comes of this, it'll just be fuel for another "big oil took this guy out" conspiracy.
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Probably. I'm sure if it were viable tech for personal vehicles Musk would be investing heavily in it.
 
Snowdog said:
I think they mean the whole battery system, not for the replacement Aluminum Modules, those should be much cheaper. Though really impossible to be cost competitive with recharging an EV with electricity.
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Not very eco competitive either, as you are still mining aluminium
 
1_rick said:
Aluminum is one of the most heavily recycled things there is.
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The problem here is this specific cycle.

Aluminum air batteries effectively turn the Aluminum into Aluminum Oxide.

It need enormous energy and heat pumped back into it, to reconstitute into Aluminum. With lots of waste heat.

It's not an efficient cycle.
 
1_rick said:
Aluminum is one of the most heavily recycled things there is.
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Then you are mining the demand amount you take out of the recycling pool. Aluminium will still be mined as a result here.
 
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