5g and the weather

JR688755 said:
I’m all for cleaner environment, but no way in hell am I gonna let someone like AOC tell me how much energy I can use, what car to buy, size/type of my home.

We don’t need to go backwards and start living as nomads to be “green”. We need to, as humans have throughout history, come up with new ingenious ways to improve our standard of living and at the same time be more sustainable. Fusion energy is one possible example.
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nwrtarget said:
I am sure this will end up with taxes on things. Just like gas guzzler taxes and so forth. In the end you won't be told to use less energy, but you will be much more financially well off if you use less.

The tech all exists to drastically reduce our energy consumption, it is just a few percent more expensive than the standard so it doesn't get implemented. Foam wall insulation will get you well past R30 while pretty much eliminating air infiltration, it only costs a slight bit more, but it is virtually never used in the US residential market because it requires specialized equipment and is slightly more expensive.

Geothermal heating and cooling for houses and hot water, a bit more expensive to do during new construction, but would drastically reduce our peak energy demand during summer and be a big win. Not being done except in a small percentage of homes where energy is expensive.

Obviously electric cars are more efficient than their gas equivalents. Just check the mpge ratings.

https://energyinnovationact.org/
I don't know if this particular bill will pass or not, but it certainly frames the discussion around this topic.
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Sustainability and tech is a great topic for maybe another post. This thread was about 5g and weather forecasting.
 
Jandor said:
Not like FCC is doing something bad. It's the 5G standards which are not even US.
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No, you can selectively implement portions of the World Standard, which is the reason why most countries have different bands enabled for LTE. You don't have to implement them ALL!

It's a WORLDWIDE standard, but the interference in-question would mostly be over US soil (where most of our weather satellites are pointed). So yes, just cutting the frequency here in the US will fix this problem.

It also wouldn't cut all these millimeter wave spectrum, just a portion of them.

The only thing stopping us here from selectively blocking these sub-26 GHz bands they use to detect water is the FCC. They are selling all this spectrum without a care in the world.

Bring in the Spectrum Auction, and fuck all science.
 
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defaultluser said:
No, you can selectively implement portions of the World Standard, which is the reason why most countries have different bands enabled for LTE. You don't have to implement them ALL!

It's a WORLDWIDE standard, but the interference in-question would mostly be over US soil (where most of our weather satellites are pointed). So yes, just cutting the frequency here in the US will fix this problem.

It also wouldn't cut all these millimeter wave spectrum, just a portion of them.

The only thing stopping us here from selectively blocking these sub-26 GHz bands they use to detect water is the FCC. They are selling all this spectrum without a care in the world.

Bring in the Spectrum Auction, and fuck all science.
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Because there will be nowhere near enough density to impact doplar systems.

Fun fact. All radio waves interfere with all radio waves they pass through. Why is this true? Radio waves are photons. One photon beam hitting another photon beam is interference. SCIENCE!
Just because one system uses the same frequency does not immediately mean the system will be interfered with. Slotting of various forms is sufficient in, quite bluntly, every other form of radio transmission on the planet to prevent major interference.
Anyone who actually believes for a minute that there will be disruption of the doplar weather systems has absolutely zero god damn clue how radio waves work. Sorry but thems the facts. It's not a problem. It won't be a problem. It's a dumbass from college who understands 10% of radio who is making a mountain out of a molehill for attention. Your inaccurate weather predictions will continue to be equally inaccurate for the foreseeable future no matter what 5g adoption rates are.
 
Nafensoriel said:
Because there will be nowhere near enough density to impact doplar systems.
.
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What the fuck are you talking about? This isn't a C-band Doppler Weather radar you have down your damn street., it's in space and detects water at 23 GHz. It's a lot more fucking temperamental, and can easily be reduced in fidelity by a bunch of 5g towers transmitting simultaneously.

These aren't some random college kids writing a stupid paper, it's the SCIENTISTS who already run things at the NOAA, NASA, and ECMWF.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a27311067/5g-weather-forecasting/

No, it won't completely stop weather forecasts, but a small; change in background radiation could put us back in the 1980s in terms of forecast accuracy. Do you remember how bad we were at anticipating Hurricane tracks back in the 80s?

FUN FACT: find me academically-reviewed source to the contrary, or you should leave this thread. Just because you understand what a Photon is doesn't mean you have the slightest clue about interference and harmonics, especially at such low powers as a satellite in orbit operates at.
 
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defaultluser said:
What the fuck are you talking about? This isn't a C-band Doppler Weather radar you have down your damn street., it's in space and detects water at 23 GHz. It's a lot more fucking temperamental, and can easily be reduced in fidelity by a bunch of 5g towers transmitting simultaneously.

These aren't some random college kids writing a stupid paper, it's the SCIENTISTS who already run things at the NOAA, NASA, and ECMWF.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a27311067/5g-weather-forecasting/

No, it won't completely stop weather forecasts, but a small; change in background radiation could put us back in the 1980s in terms of forecast accuracy. Do you remember how bad we were at anticipating Hurricane tracks back in the 80s?

FUN FACT: find me academically-reviewed source to the contrary, or you should leave this thread. Just because you understand what a Photon is doesn't mean you have the slightest clue about interference and harmonics, especially at such low powers as a satellite in orbit operates at.
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There is no academically reviewed paper for any side of this debate. None exist and none will likely ever exist because no one will fund one. None of these reports are "papers" either. They are a pack of comments spread around the internet about concerns by using the 24ghz frequency. No facts interference will take place. Plenty of raw hard science that says it most likely won't.

Forecast accuracy changes if you lose the microwave detectors in orbit is 17% maximum with a total loss of the orbital sensors. Considering cellphones only account for about a third of the planetary surface the actual effect at worst case scenerios is going to be significantly less. Also considering the major forecast advantage to satellites and weather accuracy is detecting vapour over the oceans it is very unlikely to drastically impact critical weather forecasts. Land-based forecasts are already terrible past 6hrs.
Additionally, the majority of vapour detection happens far above where the majority of cellphone signals will exist. There will be cross interference. There will always be interference. Any radio signal will interfere with any other radio signal... regardless of frequency.

To, again, point out there are mitigation factors widely used by every single radio source on the damned planet that seems to work just fine in curbing interference. Slotting alone will most likely eliminate this problem. Also, understand that these transmission and receiving points are going to have all that water vapour between each other. Water vapour is death to MMW. Refraction is going to MASSIVELY degrade 5g signals going up. Cellphone signals are also not constant. They are pulsed. Regular transmissions are far easier to predict and filter out. Though what do I know? I'm just an idiot who's worked on projects from nuclear reactors to chemical plants. Physics changes magically when it is climate-related though right?

Oh, and to continue the fun fact portion of these rants... Cell tower technology is not a constant transmission. They will ramp with the load. Additional fun fact... Police and traffic have been using 24ghz transmissions for some time. Final fun fact a 200Mhz bump in the 5g standard will utterly erase any issue.
Yeah. People who are terrified of this don't have a god damn clue about radio tech.
 
Nafensoriel said:
There is no academically reviewed paper for any side of this debate. None exist and none will likely ever exist because no one will fund one. None of these reports are "papers" either. They are a pack of comments spread around the internet about concerns by using the 24ghz frequency. No facts interference will take place. Plenty of raw hard science that says it most likely won't.

Forecast accuracy changes if you lose the microwave detectors in orbit is 17% maximum with a total loss of the orbital sensors. Considering cellphones only account for about a third of the planetary surface the actual effect at worst case scenerios is going to be significantly less. Also considering the major forecast advantage to satellites and weather accuracy is detecting vapour over the oceans it is very unlikely to drastically impact critical weather forecasts. Land-based forecasts are already terrible past 6hrs.
Additionally, the majority of vapour detection happens far above where the majority of cellphone signals will exist. There will be cross interference. There will always be interference. Any radio signal will interfere with any other radio signal... regardless of frequency.

To, again, point out there are mitigation factors widely used by every single radio source on the damned planet that seems to work just fine in curbing interference. Slotting alone will most likely eliminate this problem. Also, understand that these transmission and receiving points are going to have all that water vapour between each other. Water vapour is death to MMW. Refraction is going to MASSIVELY degrade 5g signals going up. Cellphone signals are also not constant. They are pulsed. Regular transmissions are far easier to predict and filter out. Though what do I know? I'm just an idiot who's worked on projects from nuclear reactors to chemical plants. Physics changes magically when it is climate-related though right?

Oh, and to continue the fun fact portion of these rants... Cell tower technology is not a constant transmission. They will ramp with the load. Additional fun fact... Police and traffic have been using 24ghz transmissions for some time. Final fun fact a 200Mhz bump in the 5g standard will utterly erase any issue.
Yeah. People who are terrified of this don't have a god damn clue about radio tech.
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That's exactly what I've been saying from day one. People just won't listen.
 
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