Possible to do HDMI audio without a second display?

G

Galvin

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
2,697
So I'm using display port. So was thinking. I could get a display port splitter. Then use a display port to HDMI converter. Then run that thru an HDMI audio extractor. Then the output on the extractor goes to my receiver.

Would this give me HDMI audio without a second display showing up in windows?
 
I could just try using a display port splitter. Then a display port to hdmi adpator off to the receiver. Was thinking of that, but would the receiver show up as a second display?

Just not 100% sure if nvidia is sending audio over display port though
 
Or, you could just use something else entirely to your receiver. I have an Asus Xonar U3 USB sound card that does Dolby Digital Live and DTS via TOSLINK to my receiver (it also has a 3.5mm stereo line in and line out). If you're using Windows 10 (because it is what I am familiar with), you can even split individual application's audio to automatically go to specific (and different, if you like) sound devices.

Asus makes more advanced USB units with a larger selection of I/O options, but none of those did the Dolby Digital Live thing which is needed for surround on my older receiver. They have a line of internal PCIe cards as well.
 
Anyway this may not be doable. Because all the splitters I looked at are actually extenders. And not just splitting the signal into 2. Guess I'll be sticking to DTS connect, seems like the best option. Until one day HDMI audio out can be done without it being seen as a second display
 
Galvin said:
Anyway this may not be doable. Because all the splitters I looked at are actually extenders. And not just splitting the signal into 2. Guess I'll be sticking to DTS connect, seems like the best option. Until one day HDMI audio out can be done without it being seen as a second display
Click to expand...

Why is it a problem that it's seen as another screen? I do this with my receiver and it hasn't been a problem at all for me. HDMI audio out is way better than S/PDIF w/ DTS connect.
 
Well there may be a way. Just ordered an HDMI to DP cable. If this works out well. Then all I need is an audio extractor for HDMI. Then done. L
Stanley Pain said:
Why is it a problem that it's seen as another screen? I do this with my receiver and it hasn't been a problem at all for me. HDMI audio out is way better than S/PDIF w/ DTS connect.
Click to expand...

Second screen adds a little overhead. then you have to hunt down a utility that keeps the mouse from going off screen. And the ones I looked at people said they still go off screen if the mouse is moved fast.
I hate having to compromise

Also I have to hunt down a utility that can control bass thru HDMI. Since I have bass set in my receiver for movies. but when playing games I need to change it in windows.
 
Galvin said:
So I'm using display port. So was thinking. I could get a display port splitter. Then use a display port to HDMI converter. Then run that thru an HDMI audio extractor. Then the output on the extractor goes to my receiver.

Would this give me HDMI audio without a second display showing up in windows?
Click to expand...

No, because DP to HDMI converters aren't actually converters per se as they don't convert signal, they are just port adapters. Your graphics card then recognizes that it is talking to an HDMI display and sends out that kind of signal instead. So if you split it, no way for it to work since the monitor would want a DP signal and the receiver would want an HDMI signal and they are fundamentally different.

Personally, I just go the 2nd display route. I have a dummy display that is positioned off in the lower right corner so I don't drag shit to it accidentally. There's no actual display hooked to the receiver, just used for audio.

What you can do that may help the situation long term is to e-mail your GPU maker and tell them you want support for audio over HDMI with blackburst video. What nVidia and AMD could do is add an "audio mode" that wouldn't present a display to Windows, just send out audio along with a blank video signal for the necessary sync. Wouldn't be hard for them to add, but they haven't because they don't think there are a lot of people who want it.
 
No, there us no way around it.

The only quasi work around only works if both screens use the same refresh so you can mirror a QHD 60hz to a 1080p 60hz hdmi connection or a 4k 60hz to QHD/HD 60hz.

However, most of the time people are running gaming monitors so you cant do this.
 
I use HDMI out from my GPU for audio with DisplayPort for the video, I use Dual Monitor Tools to lock my mouse cursor to my DisplayPort screen. Dual Monitor Tools appears light-weight enough and works consistently enough that I'm satisfied with this configuration.
 
Galvin said:
Windows 10. Its a second display so windows and your GPU is still using resources to drive it

Thanks for the info all
Click to expand...

What resources to drive it? It''s VERY negligible, both from a GPU resource perspective and power. Are you running on a toaster? :) I honestly think you're WAY over thinking this outside of using a small program to lock the mouse
 
Stanley Pain said:
What resources to drive it? It''s VERY negligible, both from a GPU resource perspective and power. Are you running on a toaster? :) I honestly think you're WAY over thinking this outside of using a small program to lock the mouse
Click to expand...
I notice firefox likes to stutter when I have a 2nd display for audio. I can't do duplicate display because my receiver only takes a max of 60hz for hdmi
 
Galvin said:
I notice firefox likes to stutter when I have a 2nd display for audio. I can't do duplicate display because my receiver only takes a max of 60hz for hdmi
Click to expand...

I use Firefox and I run an S2417DG on displayport and a 1080P Benq on hdmi. Audio is perfect. Never stutters.
 
Galvin said:
I notice firefox likes to stutter when I have a 2nd display for audio. I can't do duplicate display because my receiver only takes a max of 60hz for hdmi
Click to expand...

Is this for YouTube stuff? Because I get the same damn thing from time to time. That's just YouTube (and most streaming sites) being shitty. No joke if you're streaming audio or video onto a secondary screen try Edge. I've switched to that browser solely for streaming duty (it also has the highest bit rate available for NetFlix) and it's much better.
 
Stanley Pain said:
Is this for YouTube stuff? Because I get the same damn thing from time to time. That's just YouTube (and most streaming sites) being shitty. No joke if you're streaming audio or video onto a secondary screen try Edge. I've switched to that browser solely for streaming duty (it also has the highest bit rate available for NetFlix) and it's much better.
Click to expand...

Its scrolling never really tested you tube, but its there so I don't like it
And even if I use HDMI, how can I adjust things like bass and treble?
 
Galvin said:
Its scrolling never really tested you tube, but its there so I don't like it
And even if I use HDMI, how can I adjust things like bass and treble?
Click to expand...

I'm not following? What is scrolling?

As for tone control isn't that what your receiver is for? I assume that's what you're outputting to.
 
Stanley Pain said:
I'm not following? What is scrolling?

As for tone control isn't that what your receiver is for? I assume that's what you're outputting to.
Click to expand...

When playing movies I want the bass set thru the receiver. But when playing games I don't want the bass to be as deep. So need a way to control that. I'll just have to research it more
So I tried something different. I set the receiver a custom resolution of 100x100x30hz. And windows won't move the cursor into that display. My guess its too small.
 
Ok looks like I solved all the issues.
I got equalizer APO. This seems to only effect when the receiver shows MULTI inputs. When I play a movie the receiver switches to DTS. And the equalizer pro no longer has an effect.
Using an extremely small custom resolution 100x100x30hz for the receiver. Prevents windows from moving the mouse cursor into that space

And so far don't notice any stutter. So I'll see how this works out for the next day or so. Been wanting to ditch the sound card for years.
 
Last edited:
Galvin said:
Would this give me HDMI audio without a second display showing up in windows?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is possible.
Get https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EK05WTY

Connect your HDMI receiver to PC via HDMI. Plug in the thing into the receiver's output.
Connect your DP monitor to PC via DP.
In Windows you'll see two monitors, just make DP monitor primary and then select "duplicate desktop on monitor 1 and 2".
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Stanley Pain said:
Once you go HDMI audio out, you never go back.
Click to expand...
It really is great, especially when using whatever calibration feature the AVR supports (like Audessey) to ensure speaker levels are balanced; that makes a world of difference in games.
 
ashmelev75 said:
Yes, it is possible.
Get https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EK05WTY

Connect your HDMI receiver to PC via HDMI. Plug in the thing into the receiver's output.
Connect your DP monitor to PC via DP.
In Windows you'll see two monitors, just make DP monitor primary and then select "duplicate desktop on monitor 1 and 2".
Click to expand...

This will work even though the receiver input only goes up to 60hz?

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-591-Receiver-Discontinued-Manufacturer/product-reviews/B003H04Q8C

Says only HDMI 1.4a on the input. Don't think this'll work. My monitor is 1440p 144hz. HDMI 1.4a can't do that. And if I bought a newer receiver that has HDMI 2.0 or higher. There would be no need for the headless

Actually this wont work anyway because it can't do 144hz at 1440p
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...viewpnt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01EK05WTY#RXOHBQ782OMSQ
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
ashmelev75 said:
Yes, it is possible.
Get https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EK05WTY

Connect your HDMI receiver to PC via HDMI. Plug in the thing into the receiver's output.
Connect your DP monitor to PC via DP.
In Windows you'll see two monitors, just make DP monitor primary and then select "duplicate desktop on monitor 1 and 2".
Click to expand...

The resolution isn't the issue, it's the refresh rate.

Your 144Hz monitor will drop down to match the 60Hz monitor.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
DoubleTap said:
The resolution isn't the issue, it's the refresh rate.

Your 144Hz monitor will drop down to match the 60Hz monitor.
Click to expand...

As far as I know when you duplicate displays both have to be the same resolution, and windows will use the lowest refresh rate of the two.
So for this to work, the receiver would have to be able to support 1440x1920x144hz to duplicate displays. Otherwise my 100x100x30hz custom display is the only option for now

Looks like the custom resulution wasn't being used. Even though i set it.
So using the lowest 720x480x60hz

There is a slight stutter in firefox when scrolling up and down on webpages, but youtube, and streams don't stutter. So willing to put up with it.
 
Last edited:
Galvin said:
As far as I know when you duplicate displays both have to be the same resolution, and windows will use the lowest refresh rate of the two.
So for this to work, the receiver would have to be able to support 1440x1920x144hz to duplicate displays. Otherwise my 100x100x30hz custom display is the only option for now

Looks like the custom resulution wasn't being used. Even though i set it.
So using the lowest 720x480x60hz
Click to expand...

They don't have to be the same resolution.
 
DoubleTap said:
They don't have to be the same resolution.
Click to expand...

if you're duplicating a display they have to be same res, it drops to the one with the lowest

Anyway duplicate displays won't work unless receiver can do the same resolution as your monitor. Otherwise you're going to a lower refresh/res than your screen
 
Looks like I'll have to wait for HDMI 2.1 receivers to come out. That will be able to 144hz at 1440p. Then I can do duplicate displays with no issues.
For now just use HDMI audio as a second display
 
Galvin said:
if you're duplicating a display they have to be same res, it drops to the one with the lowest

Anyway duplicate displays won't work unless receiver can do the same resolution as your monitor. Otherwise you're going to a lower refresh/res than your screen
Click to expand...

That used to be the case but it's now possible to mirror on screens with different resolutions:
 

Attachments

  • 1440-1080-Mirror.png
    1440-1080-Mirror.png
    68.9 KB · Views: 0
Galvin said:
And that has no overhead? its the same resources as one display?
Click to expand...

I don't know for what you mean by "resources" - I tried it and while it works, it limits me to 60hz vs 144hz

Might be doable for someone running a 4k/60 gaming setup with an old receiver, but not doable for a 144Hz/Gsync rig.

I'm honestly surprised that nobody has come up with a screen blanked audio only mode for PCs. I've long suspected that it's because MS and Nvidia don't want to get in bad with the HDCP cartel, but who knows?
 
DoubleTap said:
I'm honestly surprised that nobody has come up with a screen blanked audio only mode for PCs. I've long suspected that it's because MS and Nvidia don't want to get in bad with the HDCP cartel, but who knows?
Click to expand...

It's not an HDCP issue, Denon does it on some of their Blu-ray players, and even then they could disable it for HDCP content, if they wanted. It is just because they don't seem to think there is a demand for it. In the pro industry is is called "blackburst" and it is a thing for sure when you want to transport audio over a video format like HDMI or HDSDI but don't have video to accompany it. You just to a black screen and call it good. There are soundcards that know how to do it like the MOTU HDX-SDI which is a pro card, but in addition to being expensive it doesn't support Windows 10 and the way its drivers work aren't great for consumer surround. If we could just convince nVidia people want it, it wouldn't be a lot of work for them to add but there you go :p.
 
Galvin said:
And that has no overhead? its the same resources as one display?
Click to expand...

Anything plugged into a port is going to "use resources". Can you explain why this is a problem for you? Running a secondary screen with nothing on it uses an incredibly small amount of resources. Are you running this on a really slow computer or something? Just trying to get an idea of what the problem is.
 
Galvin said:
Looks like I'll have to wait for HDMI 2.1 receivers to come out. That will be able to 144hz at 1440p. Then I can do duplicate displays with no issues.
For now just use HDMI audio as a second display
Click to expand...
I have a newish HDMI 2.0b Denon and use it at 1440p 120Hz, but I think its only possible when the display connected to the Denon can do 1440p 120Hz. It also needs a custom mode because the Denon only presents 1440p 60Hz.
So it may need a capable display connected to the receiver.
ALSO: If another lower Hz or lower res display is connected to the Denon, that will determine the maximum output capability, so only have the one display connected to the receiver.

For example:
If your display has 2 inputs, connect one of them to the receiver, one to the PC.
I do this with my UHD TV.
I can send a mirror image of my screen to the receiver even if the display is being driven directly from my PC (not the receiver).

In different words:
I can use the TV as my main display at 1440p 120Hz for gaming.
I then mirror this to the receiver.
The receiver allows this even if the TV is not set to display from the receiver, the TV simply has to be connected to the receiver.
This way is easy because the 1440p 120hz mode is native to my TV and appears in the display control panel.

The tricky part.
You want to get 144Hz which the receiver may not allow natively.
When mirroring displays, the driver will not let the mirrored pair use a previous custom res (they disappear) or let you create a new one, the option is blanked.
The way to fix this is create a custom res for the receiver at 1440p 144Hz and use this as the primary display.
Then create the mirror with the receiver as the primary and the 144Hz should stick.
BUT you have to keep the receiver as the primary display.

I just tested this with 120Hz to both the TV and receiver with the receiver as primary and it worked fine.
As soon as I set the primary display to my TV (which does 1440p 120Hz just fine), the receiver went back to 60Hz.


There is another direct method with modern AVRs.
My receiver passes the HDMI signal through so fast that I find it is great to use the signal through the receiver to the TV, no need for a direct connection to the TV or mirroring.
Many receivers already have the ability to use some HDMI 2.1 features via firmware updates.
My Denon X4400H got eARC and Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM).

While I can do the method described above, in reality I game with the HDMI signal passing through the receiver to the TV, no mirror needed.
Its very good!

Apologies if thats a convoluted read, I have a stinking headache and did my best.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for that, great info
I always want to know what the overhead is on things like this. My cpu is old though 4770k, pushing 6 years this summer
 
Running a second screen isn't going to tax that CPU in any appreciable way. I think you are VERY much overthinking that ;)
 
Galvin said:
Says only HDMI 1.4a on the input. Don't think this'll work. My monitor is 1440p 144hz. HDMI 1.4a can't do that. And if I bought a newer receiver that has HDMI 2.0 or higher. There would be no need for the headless
Click to expand...

Headless plug allows me to set higher resolution (1920x1200), otherwise the screen size defaults to the lowest, which is 1920x1080 reported by the receiver. I do use HDMI 2.0 receiver.
Windows always duplicates displays with the lowest resolution/refresh.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top