364 Idaho Inmates Hacked Their Prison Tablets for Free Credits

Mut1ny said:
Most of us? So how are you any better of a HUMAN BEING because you DIDN'T get caught then those that did? Are you still not doing bad? Logic fail.



Rehabilitation would work if prisons, ya know, actually tried. None that I know of do and they just act as temporary cement and metal barred up housing for people until they're let go.
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How am any better if a human being? Well here’s the thing. If you quoted the full sentence the other part includes “or not that stupid in the first place.”

Considering I am still a productive member of society and not robbing my fellow man in prison that would be one way.

You do know there are many laws in place for things being illegal and not in others. Marijuana laws tend to come to mind here.

And actually there are prisons in places do actually try rehabilitation. But it’s a two way street. Education being a form of rehabilitation. Dependency help for another. If you’re looking for them to go in a thief and come out a CEO of a bank obviously not. Probably the irony is two different kinds of thieves.

So again I don’t think it’s unfair to say very little rehabilitation happens in prison. The whole societal system in that regard doesn’t address the problems. In a lot of cases it would be simpler to use a much more final solution.
 
Derangel said:
Any study of the effects of things like solitary confinement will show that it is little more than torture. Even worse when it is used on children. Prisons in general might as well be legalized torture on their own. The only effect they have it making people better criminals or making the mentally unstable even more unstable. They made their choice and do deserve consequences, but the current ones simply do not work. When our system has THE highest number of prisoners (even beating China) in the world, there are some serious problems that need to be addressed. To be blunt: Anyone that thinks deterrence is an effective solution is a fool. Full rehabilitation isn't the answer either. Unsurprisingly, a complex problem does not have a simple solution.
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Private prisons my guy! How else are people supposed to scheme and make money? If people actually cared for the truth and evidence you wouldn't be making said comment in the first place.
 
Hagrid said:
That is why murderers, attempted murderers, child molesters, and rapists can just move on to the next life. no need to torture them. It's not nice.
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And what if they're actually innocent? Then you've just murdered an innocent person.
 
Gavv said:
“or not that stupid in the first place.”
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You can't make a statement that has two completely different variables in the same sentence. Also, not every criminal is stupid...you get into a bind or shitty stuff happens. Like, if you don't get this then good for you.

Derangel said:
And what if they're actually innocent? Then you've just murdered an innocent person.
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Inb4 "that doesn't matter we need less people on the planet anyways" lol
 
Mut1ny said:
You can't make a statement that has two completely different variables in the same sentence. Also, not every criminal is stupid...you get into a bind or shitty stuff happens. Like, if you don't get this then good for you.



Inb4 "that doesn't matter we need less people on the planet anyways" lol
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Apparently I can make that statement and did. Not my fault you can’t understand how a complete sentence with an “or” in the middle works.
 
Derangel said:
Then despite all your so-called experience you don't have a fucking clue.
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Said by someone who has clearly never had to actually deal with these types of people. Idealistic nonsense.

I should be clear though, I'm not talking about people in prison for minor offenses like drug possession and things that any reasonable person should agree they shouldn't be in prison for. I'm talking about hardened repeat offenders of serious crimes. Sure you can rehabilitate people who are in prison for stupid shit, there isn't anything to rehabilitate as they are in prison for stupid shit. You cannot rehabilitate repeat offenders of serious crimes outside Extremely rare exceptions.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Said by someone who has clearly never had to actually deal with these types of people. Idealistic nonsense.

I should be clear though, I'm not talking about people in prison for minor offenses like drug possession and things that any reasonable person should agree they shouldn't be in prison for. I'm talking about hardened repeat offenders of serious crimes. Sure you can rehabilitate people who are in prison for stupid shit, there isn't anything to rehabilitate as they are in prison for stupid shit. You cannot rehabilitate repeat offenders of serious crimes outside Extremely rare exceptions.
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I apologize for the harsh reaction and I agree, some people cannot be rehabilitated. However, that doesn't mean the system shouldn't try to help those that it can. The current prison system is simply not designed to do that.

Hagrid said:
You mean life isn't perfect? Do tell.
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So, you're okay with a system that would end up killing innocent people? That isn't justice.
 
So the prisons don't reform them (reasons, reasons). Check. But the violent criminals, rapists, child molesters all got to that place on their own. Is it society's job to try to fix those types? Sure, if we choose to, but having established that prisons don't work, what's left to try in terms of reform? It's a conundrum and until it resolves, it's more rational just to kill 'em. Of course they won't kill them, because every dead inmate is money lost <insert aforementioned reasons here>, so here we are. Inmates getting credits somehow to do something with that will make someone somewhere money. Fun times.

If not just quickly offing the ones who are guilty without question, I'm all for the island idea, a la Papillion. Put 'em there and let them do what they like. Don't even check in. Put up a massive electric fence (Musk builds/powers, Mexico pays), airdrop them in (PUBG-style) and forget they exist. lol. Trolling here, but seriously, without massive internal reforms of the prison system, nothing will change for anyone's benefit except the people making money. The offenders get in there because they are fucked up somehow, the system doesn't work to reform them, they get out and just do it all again but they won't ever be killed or otherwise dealt with conclusively because they are cash cows. Someone, if not justice, is served.
 
Derangel said:
I apologize for the harsh reaction and I agree, some people cannot be rehabilitated. However, that doesn't mean the system shouldn't try to help those that it can. The current prison system is simply not designed to do that.



So, you're okay with a system that would end up killing innocent people? That isn't justice.
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We have that system now.
Innocent people die all the time, not just in prison.
 
Prisoner849 said:
So the prisons don't reform them (reasons, reasons). Check. But the violent criminals, rapists, child molesters all got to that place on their own. Is it society's job to try to fix those types? Sure, if we choose to,
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You cannot rehabilitate those types for the same reason you can't trust a dog that has bitten your child.
 
Hagrid said:
We have that system now.
Innocent people die all the time, not just in prison.
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And that makes it okay because?

Krenum said:
Yeah, That's what they all say. (Yes I fully realize that Andy was innocent) That's not the point.

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An estimated 1 in 25 people sentenced to death row are innocent. Not a huge percentage, but the current death row system with all it's checks and balances will still execute innocent people. The whole idea of "let's execute all people that do these very broad crimes" will cause the percentage to skyrocket exponentially.

Krenum said:
You cannot rehabilitate those types for the same reason you can't trust a dog that has bitten your child.
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What if the dog only bit because your dumbass child was beating them?
 
Derangel said:
So, you're okay with a system that would end up killing innocent people? That isn't justice.
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Actually yes.

There is no perfect system. I don’t believe any of us are truly “okay” with it. Not in the sense that hey we know the guy is innocent but kill him anyways.

I think there is always a possibility someone could be innocent. However if given the appropriate appeals time to find out there may be no way to truly prove it. And everyone in prison is innocent right?

So if we have a system we need to use it. As unfortunate as it is we will always kill some innocent person from time to time. That’s not saying we shouldn’t do better or try to fix that system. We should. But we should do our best to be fair and also save ourselves money at the same time.
 
Here is the conflict I have with innocent people in prison. Sure, there is that. But how did the person get there? What circumstances led up to them getting arrested? Probably making a stupid decision or hanging out with the wrong people or a whole web of things that led up to their arrest. You dont just get thrown in jail out of the blue.
 
Derangel said:
And that makes it okay because?



An estimated 1 in 25 people sentenced to death row are innocent. Not a huge percentage, but the current death row system with all it's checks and balances will still execute innocent people. The whole idea of "let's execute all people that do these very broad crimes" will cause the percentage to skyrocket exponentially.



What if the dog only bit because your dumbass child was beating them?
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Ok? No. But so far we have not found a 100% fool proof system. We have to make do with what we have.
 
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Gavv said:
Actually yes.

There is no perfect system. I don’t believe any of us are truly “okay” with it. Not in the sense that hey we know the guy is innocent but kill him anyways.

I think there is always a possibility someone could be innocent. However if given the appropriate appeals time to find out there may be no way to truly prove it. And everyone in prison is innocent right?

So if we have a system we need to use it. As unfortunate as it is we will always kill some innocent person from time to time. That’s not saying we shouldn’t do better or try to fix that system. We should. But we should do our best to be fair and also save ourselves money at the same time.
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The current death row system has the number as low as it will ever likely get and a lot of that is due to the strict requirements needed for a crime to be death row worthy. Expanding the number of crimes for death row will cause an exponential increase in that percentage. It is estimated that anywhere from 1 to 5% of people in prison are actually innocent. That is tens of thousands of people. A lot of them are likely innocent of minor crimes or whatever, but you'd still be talking, at least, hundreds innocent of those extremely violent crimes.

Krenum said:
Here is the conflict I have with innocent people in prison. Sure, there is that. But how did the person get there? What circumstances led up to them getting arrested? Probably making a stupid decision or hanging out with the wrong people or a whole web of things that led up to their arrest. You dont just get thrown in jail out of the blue.
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Bad police work, being outright lied to by the police, forced confessions, bad lawyers, shitty forensics work, witnesses that lie or have fuzzy memories, and so on.
 
Derangel said:
I apologize for the harsh reaction and I agree, some people cannot be rehabilitated. However, that doesn't mean the system shouldn't try to help those that it can. The current prison system is simply not designed to do that.



So, you're okay with a system that would end up killing innocent people? That isn't justice.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying our prison system doesn't have problems. Our prison system is an absolute sham.
 
_l_ said:
IF there was work for all and at least a living wage being paid crime would be at an all time low. Instead, maybe it's at an all time high and if the economy tanks again like it did in 2007 be on the lookout for wide spread riots because they riot to loot, not to make a statement as the Media would have you believe (the media truly is FAKE NEWS, it'sPROPAGANDA folks - very controlled stuff)

ok, I'm done for now ...
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I would tend to disagree, and find your assertion laughable. People would still steal and kill and rape and do other stupid stuff with a living wage.even with a living wage, someone is going to want something they cannot have and will try to take it. Some will do the crime just to show how tough they are. Some will do it because it gives them some sort of pleasure. You are trying to apply rational thought to a group of people to whom that does not belong.
 
Derangel said:
The current death row system has the number as low as it will ever likely get and a lot of that is due to the strict requirements needed for a crime to be death row worthy. Expanding the number of crimes for death row will cause an exponential increase in that percentage. It is estimated that anywhere from 1 to 5% of people in prison are actually innocent. That is tens of thousands of people. A lot of them are likely innocent of minor crimes or whatever, but you'd still be talking, at least, hundreds innocent of those extremely violent crimes.



Bad police work, being outright lied to by the police, forced confessions, bad lawyers, shitty forensics work, witnesses that lie or have fuzzy memories, and so on.
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All of what you mentioned is after the fact though, I meant the decisions of the person that led up to the crime. Don't put yourself in the position to be falsely accused and you should be ok. Again bad decisions.
 
Krenum said:
All of what you mentioned is after the fact though, I meant the decisions of the person that led up to the crime. Don't put yourself in the position to be falsely accused and you should be ok. Again bad decisions.
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They should choose not to marry, date, or befriend anyone because that person could someday be murdered, raped, robbed, etc? They should choose not to have family that might commit crimes? As children, they should choose not to grow up in certain neighborhoods? They should choose not to randomly have fingerprints that closely match someone else? Did you even put a nanosecond of thought into your reply?
 
Derangel said:
They should choose not to marry, date, or befriend anyone because that person could someday be murdered, raped, robbed, etc? They should choose not to have family that might commit crimes? As children, they should choose not to grow up in certain neighborhoods? They should choose not to randomly have fingerprints that closely match someone else? Did you even put a nanosecond of thought into your reply?
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Yes, people should choose, and choose wisely. Or remove themselves from certain situations. Fingerprints?! C'mon!
 
Krenum said:
Yes, they should choose, and choose wisely. Or remove themselves from certain situations. Fingerprints?! C'mon!
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Yes, fingerprints. Its an extreme example, but it does happen. While everyone has unique fingerprints they're not so unique that it is impossible for false positives to happen, especially if you're dealing with partial prints or having a human check for matches.
 
auntjemima said:
Tldr: commit crime. Get tablet for reform. Commit crime with tablet. Progress!
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I'd be quite happy if criminals were addicted to reading or listening quietly to music on a tablet, as opposed to hanging around on the street and drinking. Net addiction may be a social evil but it gives a whole lot less trouble to society than their usual behaviour
 
Derangel said:
Any study of the effects of things like solitary confinement will show that it is little more than torture. Even worse when it is used on children. Prisons in general might as well be legalized torture on their own. The only effect they have it making people better criminals or making the mentally unstable even more unstable. They made their choice and do deserve consequences, but the current ones simply do not work. When our system has THE highest number of prisoners (even beating China) in the world, there are some serious problems that need to be addressed. To be blunt: Anyone that thinks deterrence is an effective solution is a fool. Full rehabilitation isn't the answer either. Unsurprisingly, a complex problem does not have a simple solution.
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That's because China doesn't put them all in prison, they either execute them or send them to work camps.

There's also the issue about illegal immigration.
About 30% of federal prisoners are in the country illegally, so our numbers are inflated because of that.

There was a book I read years ago that had a solution.
In the book, the science of transplants had been perfected. Plus they figured out a way to store body parts for decades.
This led to a huge demand for transplants, and more than doubled the average life span, as long as the parts where available when needed.

Of course this lead to a huge demand, so they decided to change the death penalty to being sentenced to the organ banks.
People supported this new death penalty because it meant that they and their loved one could live much longer.​
This increased the supply of parts available for a while, but it also lead to a less criminal activity, and then less parts.
The response was to add more crimes to the death penalty, until there where enough parts available again.
The cycle continued until everyone was afraid to commit even minor crimes because they would be sentenced to the organ banks. :D
 
Derangel said:
The current death row system has the number as low as it will ever likely get and a lot of that is due to the strict requirements needed for a crime to be death row worthy. Expanding the number of crimes for death row will cause an exponential increase in that percentage. It is estimated that anywhere from 1 to 5% of people in prison are actually innocent. That is tens of thousands of people. A lot of them are likely innocent of minor crimes or whatever, but you'd still be talking, at least, hundreds innocent of those extremely violent crimes.
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And almost all of that 1 to 5% of so called innocent people have a rap sheet that is a mile long.

When there is someone who is released as innocent after years in prison, they are usually portrayed as innocent victims.
However, it's usually because a critical piece of evidence is thrown out, and without this crucial piece of evident it's unlikely they could be convicted if re-tried.

A truly innocent person, without a long criminal record, convicted and sitting on death row, is about as rare as a real live Unicorn.
 
Mut1ny said:
You say that. Wait until you're on the receiving end.
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what he said was, there is no perfect system and so maybe you will be the one on the receiving end ... who knows, right?
 
_l_ said:
IF there was work for all and at least a living wage being paid crime would be at an all time low.
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Yet during the great depression (1930's) the crime rate in poor areas was low.
But back then we didn't have the same level of cultural acceptance of criminal behavior.
People looked out for each other and taught their kids respect..

Most crime is not caused because someone is poor, it's caused by lack of respect of others and a poor upbringing.
 
nutzo said:
Yet during the great depression (1930's) the crime rate in poor areas was low.
But back then we didn't have the same level of cultural acceptance of criminal behavior.
People looked out for each other and taught their kids respect..

Most crime is not caused because someone is poor, it's caused by lack of respect of others and a poor upbringing.
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Drugs, the rise of street gangs, and more are also crucial factors. Social status can also play a part as well. Don't try to simplify a complex issue. Also, don't fall into the "everyone was nicer in the past" trap. The people peddling that horseshit were children in the eras they so fondly remember, we tend to idolize the eras we grew up in and always think they are so much better than current times. The 30s were a pretty violent time, especially the early 30s when prohibition was still a thing. The 20s and 30s were the prime era of mobsters and the gangs that worked for them. Chicago alone was estimated to have over 1,300 gangs around that time.

PS: The crime rate wasn't low among any group in the 30s. From 30 to 34 the homicide rate was over 9.0 per 100,000, even peaking as high as 9.6. The rate wouldn't hit that level again until the 70s. It started dropping, drastically, after the New Deal and things started recovering. There is a lot of nuance to why it happened and what caused the later spike in the 60s and 70s, but that's a much bigger discussion.
 
Mut1ny said:
You say that. Wait until you're on the receiving end.
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Hopefully I never have to.

However if that is the system then that is how it is. In terms of it it may be easier than actually having to deal with prison politics and life in prison forever.

You still haven’t gave us the perfect solution to this problem.
 
going to take awhile to work off if they're paying you 5 cents an hour in the laundry room.
 
nutzo said:
Yet during the great depression (1930's) the crime rate in poor areas was low.
But back then we didn't have the same level of cultural acceptance of criminal behavior.
People looked out for each other and taught their kids respect..

Most crime is not caused because someone is poor, it's caused by lack of respect of others and a poor upbringing.
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Most but not all...So you acknowledge that being poor does have an impact?
 
this is just my opinion, but jail/prison is supposed to be a punishment, it should be something to be feared. People should be scared to commit crimes and get caught. Jail/prison shouldnt be a walk in the park.
 
Snakebyt said:
this is just my opinion, but jail/prison is supposed to be a punishment, it should be something to be feared. People should be scared to commit crimes and get caught. Jail/prison shouldnt be a walk in the park.
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Exactly. People should fear prison enough to not commit crimes..not look forward to their '3 hots and a cot vacation' and now tablets?

Bring back hard labour camps. Make them 10-12 work hour days building roads, government projects, etc to help offset the costs of housing and "rehabbing" them.

And I know most people get jailed for stupid non-violent crimes like weed but guess what? I don't do it because it's illegal and I don't want it on my record/lose a job even though I agree it's a dumb law that needs to be changed but like alot of non-violent crimes, I'd wager that these people all knew they were commiting crimes and took the chance anyway.

I think Liar Liar was pretty spot on...

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Snakebyt said:
this is just my opinion, but jail/prison is supposed to be a punishment, it should be something to be feared. People should be scared to commit crimes and get caught. Jail/prison shouldnt be a walk in the park.
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Fundamentally, you're correct. There's only two problems:

1. Humans are biologically problem solvers, risk takers, and dreamers (we have the ability to imagine an outcome). Because of this, punishment has never been a deterrent to crime - for an inspired individual, the acts of problem solving through the crime and dreaming about the outcome do not end in punishment. Family and societal pressure (or lack thereof) are the biggest reasons to do crime or not do crime.

2. A society with extreme punishment is more likely to cause failed crimes to end in violence.
 
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