Microsoft Is Putting Windows on the Back Burner

naib said:
No it doesn't, it is extrapolating usage numbers based upon support queries... ie posts from people who don't know what they are doing... how many actually do? how many query elsewhere? I have NEVER posted a query about libreoffice yet I use it. Do you have statistical information to indicate the percentage split between idiot users and competent users as well as idiot users who go out of their way to post on forums to then provide some linear extrapolation (again assuming it is a linear relationship).
Forum usage is not that high with the general computer user... the only stat I know of was 2% of HoN players used the forums.
How many people with issues ask other people. How many people who actually ask on a forum then present an x-y problem thus skewing the numbers *IF* this metric is used. How many search & find a solution and don't post thus skewing the numbers. How many don't search and post, skewing the numbers.

It is clear that that windows has a higher market share & that isn't in question. What is, is the methodology used to extrapolate FOSS software usage from posts by people who don't know what they are doing.
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Based on overall market share numbers it's a perfectly logical to deduce that there are more OS specific posts on these forums from Windows users because there are more Windows users using the software. When these post counts show a large gap between Windows then macOS and Linux coming last, that's what the overall market share numbers show. The pattern is very consistent. And in the cases where there are specific numbers from cross platform game developers who have exact data, again it's the same pattern.

Libre Office, Audacity, GIMP, OBS, etc. are easy to find through web searches, free, easy to install on Windows and generally considered very good. They have as much appeal to Windows users as macOS and Linux users. In the case of OBS, maybe even more for Windows users as it's big for game streaming these days.
 
Again you are reading what you want to read and injecting your own opinion.

Come back when you have a highschool grasp of statistics and equally when you can stick to a topic.

Time to put you back on ignore
 
I don't get why some of you guys get upset that there's more users of a lot of this cross platform on Windows than macOS or Linux. There's simply a lot more Windows users to use these applications.
 
heatlesssun said:
I don't get why some of you guys get upset that there's more users of a lot of this cross platform on Windows than macOS or Linux. There's simply a lot more Windows users to use these applications.
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I think it just annoys people that you have to always point out user numbers when people are talking about quality.

There are a ton of Kias and Chevies on the road in the US as well that hardly makes them the best.

You also have a tendency to go way off topic. The thread is about MS slowing down Windows development. That is the news here... not a debate about how many copies of Libre office are out and about and on what systems. If you wanna get into that more windows copies of Libre get downloaded from Libres site... that is true. However that still isn't any better a measuring method as forum posts (which is silly). Linux doesn't work that way you don't download software from a vendor site... you install it properly from your package manager. The Libre people honestly have no clear idea how many people are actually using their software for sure. MS who sells every single copy can tell you exactly how many people are using their software legit like at least. Libre can only guess.

What I find most funny about your posts... is you like to hold Linux developers up claim them as windows developers because they (or someone in their community of developers) has taken a few min to compile a version to run on Windows. Yes people that believe in Open software and free access to all the things are willing to share. I know crazy idea. I have no idea why it bothers you so much that all that free open source software that is now out there to run on Windows is created by people that don't use or often even like windows. lol
 
ChadD said:
You also have a tendency to go way off topic. The thread is about MS slowing down Windows development. That is the news here...
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First of all, that's debatable, indeed many are complaining about the twice a year update cycle, if that changes then there'd be more of an argument for the slow down. And it doesn't matter what the topic is, if it's related to Windows around here you people talking about Linux, which is completely off topic.
 
It's not even that in this case...
This thread is about Microsoft and windows YET again it was driven downto "Linux doesn't have the number" ... Sure I bit but damn there are an annoying few that insist of Tu quoque as a discussion methodology.

As I said the NUMBERS are not in question. The methodology to extrapolate is and anyone with a highschool understanding of maths would see that. Equally this discussion is about Microsoft defocusing windows and anyone with a highschool grasp of English can see that.
The reliance on logical fallacies in an attempt to stay relevant in a discussion to Steer it (to a more comfortable topic or away from an u comfortable one) is a sign of weak discussipn strength
 
Microsoft has been slowly steering Windows into the cloud. The thrust of Windows 10 is to, eventually, get everyone into the cloud. They cannot get Windows 7 into the cloud, which is giving them heartburn.

If you follow all the Microsoft blogs, it is pretty obvious that is the direction they are going.

Now, what that will look like is anyone's guess. Subscription service? What parts of the OS will be cloud based? Will you be able to boot without an Internet connection? And more to come......

By the way, you guys that are whining about Linux being brought up should realize any discussion talking about Windows operating systems being defocused at Microsoft will always bring up parallel discussions on other options available. It is not a deviation of the topic. It is a natural part of the discussion.
 
naib said:
The reliance on logical fallacies in an attempt to stay relevant in a discussion to Steer it (to a more comfortable topic or away from an u comfortable one) is a sign of weak discussipn strength
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Here's some real data: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...istics-from-multiple-developers-part-5.10064/

This is from a very pro-Linux site and in every case with these cross platform games Windows was the dominant platform, sometimes overwhelmingly, followed by macOS and then Linux. There's nothing that would change this pattern for free and easily downloadable software.
 
BSmith said:
Microsoft has been slowly steering Windows into the cloud. The thrust of Windows 10 is to, eventually, get everyone into the cloud. They cannot get Windows 7 into the cloud, which is giving them heartburn.

If you follow all the Microsoft blogs, it is pretty obvious that is the direction they are going.

Now, what that will look like is anyone's guess. Subscription service? What parts of the OS will be cloud based? Will you be able to boot without an Internet connection? And more to come......
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Microsoft already a subscription model when it comes to enterprise licensing. I don't see how the core OS on a device can be sold as subscription service but certainly add-ons could like Office 365. Or virtualized desktops.

BSmith said:
By the way, you guys that are whining about Linux being brought up should realize any discussion talking about Windows operating systems being defocused at Microsoft will always bring up parallel discussions on other options available. It is not a deviation of the topic. It is a natural part of the discussion.
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A big criticism over the years about Microsoft was stove piping and redundant efforts which caused a lack of interoperability and consistency. Be it Windows or macOS of Linux, the desktop isn't driving high growth anywhere anymore. The future of Linux is even more about the cloud than Windows.

If people bring up Linux then so be it. It's just that when people start talking about cross platform desktop software in this context they think they're talking about "Linux software." That's simply not the case.
 
The cloud is not for everything nor everyone. I know one business which went into bankruptcy because they bought into the marketing of it all without doing due diligence. One day their Internet connection was severed during construction and they were dead in the water and lost enough business they never recovered from it.

Personally, I have no use for the cloud. I also detest broswer based applications. Too slow and cumbersome.

I am not saying there is not a place for it. Right now, it is the new whiz-bang and people are prone to trying the new whiz-bang because it is the new whiz-bang. In time things will settle down and people will move to whatever it is that makes things tick for them.

Linux will always be a tough sell. It is even more fragmented than Microsoft is. Looking what is being said beyond the press releases is fun. My effort: Microsoft's latest move is not so much about defocusing, Windows as it is about preparing for the next move to the cloud. I can see all manner of subscriptions that could charge. You get the core OS and have to pay a small fee to keep it working, and if you want more than the core OS, it will cost you. They could effectively lock out any third party applications unless the third party pay them a license fee to be able to run on the core OS and so on.

Let your imgination run rampant. All bets are off when it comes to what may happen and what Microsoft will do to get another dollar into the coffers.
 
BSmith said:
Let your imgination run rampant. All bets are off when it comes to what may happen and what Microsoft will do to get another dollar into the coffers.
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Desktop Windows is 31 years old now and been in a dominant market position for 25 years or so. It's ancient by modern standards and where to go next with it in the age of mobile and the cloud was never going to have clean answer. And while that problem was compounded by Microsoft's failure in phones, even Apple is rumored into looking at radical changes to macOS, dumping Intel and unifying macOS and iOS in a ways that mimic Windows 10 like supporting mobile/touch and desktop applications in the same OS.

I don't think that Linux is necessarily a tough sell in and of the OS itself, where it's tough is how much one uses the massive Windows ecosystem where Linux simply doesn't have the same level support or options.
 
I have long recognized the need to combine mobile and desktop systems where they all look and feel the same. As a matter of fact, I am working on my own UI for Linux which does just that. Tired of waiting for Apple, Microsoft, or anyone else to do it. There has never been a reason why all these systems could not use the same UI, regardless of the input system(s).

The core is based on a UNIX shell I wrote in the early 80's which was so simple to use. You did not need to know anything about how to start an application. Yes, it was context sensitive.
 
BSmith said:
There has never been a reason why all these systems could not use the same UI, regardless of the input system(s).
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There certainly are reasons if you maintain legacy compatibility as desktop UIs and apps were designed long before modern touch UIs and had no concept of touch. Windows 10 does a pretty good job on scaling to screen size and across devices, though Windows 10 phone is dead though there probably will some form of Windows 10 on phone capable devices as Windows 10 ARM is thing now. With some Win32 compatibility thought that's still pretty rough.
 
I am not talking about applications. I am talking about the desktop. It can be common to any type of device and should be. It can be common to any operating system as well.
 
There are many articles of Microsoft making Windows a lower priority compared to their cloud and O365 divisions, with the OS division being merged into the rest of the company as opposed to an entity in itself and the team being broken up and management in charge of Windows development leaving Microsoft. This all points to one truth, the Windows that you know will be changing.

Since Nadella became CEO Microsoft stock has continued to climb even though Microsoft was essentially giving Windows 10 away for free. Windows 10 adoption is floundering at best with most users giving up on the platform completely in favor of phones and tablets that are comparably immune to viruses and malware and there's little doubt that Nadella's decision to reorganize Microsoft to become less dependent on a floundering platform is the right one - Microsoft need to stay ahead of the game where new technologies are emerging rather than rely on an outdated business model.

Obviously Nadella knows something regarding operating system usage that he's not sharing with the rest of the world.

That's the truth of the situation irregardless of whether certain users want to accept it or not, there's little point arguing it.
 
Mazzspeed said:
That's the truth of the situation irregardless of whether certain users want to accept it or not, there's little point arguing it.
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Some people have been proclaiming the death of Windows for 20 years now. Clearly the tech world is different and the desktop, regardless of the OS, is not the center of the computing universe anymore or an area of much growth. I believe the need for powerful computing devices more flexible than phones and tablets will always be there, just not the center of attention. But for productivity and gaming for the foreseeable future, there will still be a lot of desktops running Windows.
 
I don't get it. There's clearly demand for a Windows 7-like desktop oriented product. The PC market has stabilized but isn't going away, it's one of several different computing niches. Why not re-release an updated Windows 7 as a subscription product? Just keep it a secure and open platform for old and new software and people will pay to use it.

Historically they charged a lot for Windows ($100 USD for a 'Home' License). That money went into all the work on the OS and support for hardware and software vendors to ensure compatibility. If the market is stable they can drop the cost to something low and offer attractive pricing on Office/cloud storage bundles.
 
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DeathFromBelow said:
I don't get it. There's clearly demand for a Windows 7-like desktop oriented product. The PC market has stabilized but isn't going away, it's one of several different computing niches. Why not re-release an updated Windows 7 as a subscription product? Just keep it a secure and open platform for old and new software and people will pay to use it.
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People were the same way with XP when Vista came out. Windows 7 feels old and clunky now.
 
Spaceninja said:
People were the same way with XP when Vista came out. Windows 7 feels old and clunky now.
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That is not why people want 7. Plus I don't find 7 clunky, I find it a proper OS rather than a bastardized tablet hybrid. I switched for dx12 and with that so far being irrelevant I'm switching back next wipe. Souce - home PC and laptop run win10, office runs win7.
 
Spaceninja said:
Windows 7 feels old and clunky now.
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MU2guu.gif


Go play with your smartphone.
 
heatlesssun said:
Some people have been proclaiming the death of Windows for 20 years now. Clearly the tech world is different and the desktop, regardless of the OS, is not the center of the computing universe anymore or an area of much growth. I believe the need for powerful computing devices more flexible than phones and tablets will always be there, just not the center of attention. But for productivity and gaming for the foreseeable future, there will still be a lot of desktops running Windows.
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Who's proclaiming the death of Windows?

The past cannot be compared to the present when it's Microsoft themselves proclaiming that Windows isn't their priority anymore - There's nothing to argue here.
 
I just got rid of my Windows laptop and MacBook.

The Chromebook replaces them both. Works faster than a $1k stupid Windows laptop.

For file management the Intel NUC does it all. So yea, some sort of desktop is still needed.
 
Honestly, Microsoft would be fools if they eliminated windows from the traditional OS market. Yes is a 30+ year old product, but its not like it's irrelevant. Almost everyone knows how to use the interface and has a traditional computer in their home or office for doing the majority of their work. All of these software companies are looking at mobile devices and cloud storage as being the only way forward. Yet, what do most people use there phones or tablets for? Facebook, youtube, netflix and whatever other popular websites for entertainment. Those devices are using content, not creating it. Even larger tablets suck to work on. They don't have the power, and the interface is infuriating to use for long periods of time. I'd happily give up my phone tomorrow, but I cannot work without my desktop

If Microsoft was smart they would create a traditional OS that could easily integrate with mobile devices. Windows 8 and 10 just aren't the answer, they stepped to far away from the traditional windows interface. Windows 10 also hasn't seen a lot of use because of the telemetry. I jumped into Vista right off the bat and liked it, again with 7 and it's been great. 10 with all the crap you can't turn off, keylogging, and automatic updates? No thanks.

I'd happily pay retail price for an updated windows 7. There's clearly still a market for that type of operating system. Just read through the forums. Linux as great as it is, isn't a viable alternate for the majority of users.

They need to understand that not everyone wants or can use cloud based storage or software. For example, my internet connection isn't fast enough to backup my TB's of archives. I also work regularly without any access to the internet, that's why I don't use any subscription based software. I can't work if has to phone home and re-authenticate itself.
 
Mazzspeed said:
Who's proclaiming the death of Windows?
The past cannot be compared to the present when it's Microsoft themselves proclaiming that Windows isn't their priority anymore - There's nothing to argue here.
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Microsoft like any for profit company, particularly in the tech space, will prioritize based on market growth, demand and expected future trajectories. At a $700 billion dollar market cap, Microsoft isn't going to grow by prioritizing a classic desktop OS. That's obvious, there's no growth in the traditional desktop space, even Apple is sluggish here and the move to cloud has been going on for many years.

However, unless someone is going to invest many billions of dollars in catching up to Windows in classic desktop support, and I don't see anyone coming close to doing that at this point, then there aren't going to any major shifting in the classic desktop space. Chromebooks are a threat, but they are pretty much the epitome of cloud devices.
 
heatlesssun said:
Microsoft like any for profit company, particularly in the tech space, will prioritize based on market growth, demand and expected future trajectories. At a $700 billion dollar market cap, Microsoft isn't going to grow by prioritizing a classic desktop OS. That's obvious, there's no growth in the traditional desktop space, even Apple is sluggish here and the move to cloud has been going on for many years.

However, unless someone is going to invest many billions of dollars in catching up to Windows in classic desktop support, and I don't see anyone coming close to doing that at this point, then there aren't going to any major shifting in the classic desktop space. Chromebooks are a threat, but they are pretty much the epitome of cloud devices.
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This isn't about anyone racing to replace Windows, this is about Microsoft and their priority towards an OS that is no longer their most profitable product. If Microsoft believe that it's no longer equitable to run Windows as a separate entity and put other products higher up on the resource ladder in order to remain competitive than that's a decision the consumer has no choice but to accept considering they run an OS owned 100% by a publicly traded corporation that has shareholders to look after.

There's no arguing, that's just how life works. You either look for alternatives or you continue with Windows and hope for the best.

I'm sure Windows won't simply stop existing overnight, but the writing's on the wall that Windows as you currently know it is definitely going to undergo significant change as time goes on. Whether that change is for the better or worse remains to be seen.
 
heatlesssun said:
Microsoft like any for profit company, particularly in the tech space, will prioritize based on market growth, demand and expected future trajectories. At a $700 billion dollar market cap, Microsoft isn't going to grow by prioritizing a classic desktop OS. That's obvious, there's no growth in the traditional desktop space, even Apple is sluggish here and the move to cloud has been going on for many years.

However, unless someone is going to invest many billions of dollars in catching up to Windows in classic desktop support, and I don't see anyone coming close to doing that at this point, then there aren't going to any major shifting in the classic desktop space. Chromebooks are a threat, but they are pretty much the epitome of cloud devices.
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for an enthusiast forum, chromebooks are a threat like smartphones a threat. I actually use my computers. Chromebooks w/ a linux install run some cool shit, I use as a KiCAD and MplabX dev platform which is pretty awesome couch working, but its still a far cry from a 27" desktop monitor or a threadripper.
 
Mazzspeed said:
You either look for alternatives or you continue with Windows and hope for the best.
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Or, if Windows works for what one needs just use it. I've spent many hours looking into Linux as personal solution and while I know it's not the same for everyone, it just doesn't come close to meeting my needs. Everything has its strengths and weaknesses and there's no arguing that as well. If something ever gets to the point that its truly capable of replacing Windows, and by that I mean develops an ecosystem that rivals Windows, or if we just throw all of that away and go on to something else, then that's what we'll do.
 
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BSmith said:
I have long recognized the need to combine mobile and desktop systems where they all look and feel the same. As a matter of fact, I am working on my own UI for Linux which does just that. Tired of waiting for Apple, Microsoft, or anyone else to do it. There has never been a reason why all these systems could not use the same UI, regardless of the input system(s).

The core is based on a UNIX shell I wrote in the early 80's which was so simple to use. You did not need to know anything about how to start an application. Yes, it was context sensitive.
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I do not want the same UI on my 4" smartphone as on my 27" monitor. Some might. I do not.
what I want is them to work together. Cloud services like dropbox go miles in this direction. My phone is not a computer, and my computer is not a phone. Except when they are.
 
heatlesssun said:
Or, if Windows works for what one needs just use it. I've spent many hours looking into Linux as personal solution and while I know it's not the same for everyone, it just doesn't come close to meeting my needs. Everything has its strengths and weaknesses and there's no arguing that as well. If something ever gets to the point that its truly capable of replacing Windows, and by that I mean develops an ecosystem that rivals Windows, or if we just throw all of that away and go on to something else, then that's what we'll do.
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No one mentioned Linux. As stated, if you can't find alternatives than stick with Windows and hope for the best.

No good trying to convince me of your issues, I don't own the OS. As stated, whatever happens will be very gradual and if the time comes that developers see shifting to another platform as a necessity I'm sure everything you do now will be supported on the alternate platform. However, at this stage no one has any idea just what's going to happen so there's no point arguing.
 
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Mazzspeed said:
No one mentioned Linux. As stated, if you can't find alternatives than stick with Windows and hope for the best.

No good trying to convince me of your issues, I don't own the OS. As stated, whatever happens will be very gradual and if the time comes that developers see shifting to another platform as a necessity I'm sure everything you do now will be supported on the alternate platform. However, at this stage no one has any idea just what's going to happen so there's no point arguing.
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Exactly, unless someone puts some money in the game, MS can take windows right off the burner and into the freezer, so long as they keep security up and it is what it is.
 
travm said:
I do not want the same UI on my 4" smartphone as on my 27" monitor. Some might. I do not.
what I want is them to work together. Cloud services like dropbox go miles in this direction. My phone is not a computer, and my computer is not a phone. Except when they are.
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So you do not want an easierr way to use your phone and desktop together? You are dismissing something you have not seen. You do not want phones to be easier to use? Certainly your call.

Dropbox is a bandaid to cover a problem. There are better solutions. None you are aware of, yet.

I am getting off topic here.
 
BSmith said:
So you do not want an easierr way to use your phone and desktop together? You are dismissing something you have not seen. You do not want phones to be easier to use? Certainly your call.

Dropbox is a bandaid to cover a problem. There are better solutions. None you are aware of, yet.

I am getting off topic here.
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Not together as in, simultaneously. Together as in where they compliment each other. My phone is not a PC, my PC is not a phone.

Imagine using your phones UI in a VR environment, ick.

Each interface should have its own properly optimized UI. Windows 7 was the best there was. Windows 10, is just more windows7ed. Windows 8 was trash on PC because they tried to do exactly what your talking about (among other reasons), and ended up with a half baked garbage UI.

Dropbox is the best I've seen, and as much cloud as i'd like in my life. I doubt there are better solutions. In my world smartphones, arm architechtures, etc all choke on real workloads. Phone UI's suck for PC's.

Its cool beans that you are trying to fix what Microsoft couldn't achieve with win 8, but i know it will be of near 0 use to me.
 
Cloud based OS's are already out there and working great. Your phone... that's in essence a thin client with a cloud based OS and apps. Google Chrome.. cloud based OS with apps.

All of these maintain some "offline" functionality but to be truly useful they require connectivity and bandwidth.

Same with consoles and such. Yea sure you CAN play your games offline... but really.. is that what you WANT to do. Even single player games today are rife with online derived content and streaming updates.

Being a cloud based OS doesn't mean you can't run offline. It just means some core functionality needs it.
 
travm said:
Not together as in, simultaneously. Together as in where they compliment each other. My phone is not a PC, my PC is not a phone.

Imagine using your phones UI in a VR environment, ick.

Each interface should have its own properly optimized UI. Windows 7 was the best there was. Windows 10, is just more windows7ed. Windows 8 was trash on PC because they tried to do exactly what your talking about (among other reasons), and ended up with a half baked garbage UI.

Dropbox is the best I've seen, and as much cloud as i'd like in my life. I doubt there are better solutions. In my world smartphones, arm architechtures, etc all choke on real workloads. Phone UI's suck for PC's.

Its cool beans that you are trying to fix what Microsoft couldn't achieve with win 8, but i know it will be of near 0 use to me.
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I would comment further on the horrible state of the user interface, in all systems today, but that is outside the pervue of this thread.


Grimlaking said:
Cloud based OS's are already out there and working great. Your phone... that's in essence a thin client with a cloud based OS and apps. Google Chrome.. cloud based OS with apps.

All of these maintain some "offline" functionality but to be truly useful they require connectivity and bandwidth.

Same with consoles and such. Yea sure you CAN play your games offline... but really.. is that what you WANT to do. Even single player games today are rife with online derived content and streaming updates.

Being a cloud based OS doesn't mean you can't run offline. It just means some core functionality needs it.
Click to expand...


When I was gaming, I never bought a game that did not have an offline mode. I gave up playing online games years ago. They were more frustrating than fun with every idiot looking to "game the game" it would kill any potential fun the game originally had. If that was not enough, then the chat would be swamped with some idiot talking about whatever shock topic available at the time. It just ruined the immersion.

The last online game I tried was Titanfall. And it was the same ole, same ole. Spawn, 3 seconds later dead, spawn, 3 seconds later dead. Never seeing who was killing you. It was never a Titan. Always some gamer who would park 1/2 a mile away with a sniper rifle and camp the spawn points.

Then they came up a mode which was a team work mode. Most fun I had in an online game ever. Then Titanfall 2 came out and they killed that mode. I understand they may have brought it back, but too little, too late as the game has lost the momentum and player numbers are waning.

I digress,.....again. Dang it.
 
Spaceninja said:
People were the same way with XP when Vista came out. Windows 7 feels old and clunky now.
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That couldn't be further away from the truth. I'm saying that as someone who uses them side by side. For the most part it's the same experience, except when you try to configure something like networking or some other shit that got the "settings app" treatment.
 
Grimlaking said:
Cloud based OS's are already out there and working great. Your phone... that's in essence a thin client with a cloud based OS and apps. Google Chrome.. cloud based OS with apps.

All of these maintain some "offline" functionality but to be truly useful they require connectivity and bandwidth.

Same with consoles and such. Yea sure you CAN play your games offline... but really.. is that what you WANT to do. Even single player games today are rife with online derived content and streaming updates.

Being a cloud based OS doesn't mean you can't run offline. It just means some core functionality needs it.
Click to expand...
What are you on about? My phone is disconnected from the internet by default. I only enable it when I want to look at something that requires a connection. (email, live traffic, or browse something)
A don't want to play games online, and never will. Being forced to connect to a server is not playing online, and most games work just fine without that connection. At least the bits that I'm interested in.
 
M76 said:
That couldn't be further away from the truth. I'm saying that as someone who uses them side by side. For the most part it's the same experience, except when you try to configure something like networking or some other shit that got the "settings app" treatment.
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The settings app is a pain in the ass. They tend to hide and remove options. Visually and performace wise Win7 just isn't quite as appealing as 10. Granted I spend most of my time on a Linux machine these days and only use the Win10 machine when necessary.
 
Spaceninja said:
The settings app is a pain in the ass. They tend to hide and remove options. Visually and performace wise Win7 just isn't quite as appealing as 10. Granted I spend most of my time on a Linux machine these days and only use the Win10 machine when necessary.
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I hate that damn settings app as well; I frequently use a VPN connection and you can't connect from the icon in the system tray any more (on an SP4 at least; it works on a Surface Book), instead it launches the settings app, then two more clicks to connect. In combination with that shitty Marvell chipset it means a lot of clicks with the frequent disconnects.
 
Todd Walter said:
I hate that damn settings app as well; I frequently use a VPN connection and you can't connect from the icon in the system tray any more (on an SP4 at least; it works on a Surface Book), instead it launches the settings app, then two more clicks to connect. In combination with that shitty Marvell chipset it means a lot of clicks with the frequent disconnects.
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I use the OpenVPN client to access my home network. I gave up on the Windows client a long time ago.
 
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