Former Pentagon X-Files Chief: Existence of UFOs “Proved beyond Reasonable Doubt”

Mut1ny said:
Ya need something and no, it wasn't an insult. It was a statement. I didn't state that you were in fact dumb, I just simply implied that you might be. Can I say you're insulting me by questioning my intelligence and knowledge on the matter of religion?

As to the rest of your post you need to re-read my last two posts here. You basically did and said everything I said you would (or have already done).

If you aren't a troll then YOU need to open your mind and go read more about the history and evidence of religion that doesn't directly correlate in a positive manner with your indoctrinated pre-determined religious beliefs.
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So, how have you determined that I have been indoctrinated and grew up with it? Perhaps you are the one that has been indoctrinated in school and college and no, I am not joking but am quite serious. The fact that I did exactly what you said I was going to do will cause me to do what: Run away and hide? Be manipulated and suddenly agree with you, just because I want to be liked? You do not know me personally from a hole in the ground and yet you claim all I have is a religion? So, if I tell you I hate religion, are you going to now tell me I am clueless? LOL :D
 
ManofGod said:
The fact that I did exactly what you said I was going to do will cause me to do what: Run away and hide?
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Because it's always the same tired worn out arguments from people like you about this stuff. It's been proven wrong on so many occasions. The number of people that believe in something doesn't make it more right. Plenty of people believed in what Hitler was doing...so by your logic he was right? What about all the other religions? It's all a farce, man.
 
Mut1ny said:
Because it's always the same tired worn out arguments from people like you about this stuff. It's been proven wrong on so many occasions. The number of people that believe in something doesn't make it more right. Plenty of people believed in what Hitler was doing...so by your logic he was right? What about all the other religions? It's all a farce, man.
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You are right, the number of people believing in something does not make it right. However, two things: One is the something is, therefore I believe. The second is, narrow is the gate that leads to life and few are those that enter into it. Religion itself is a farce, at least as far as man made stuff is concerned. Also, study the scriptures and you will find that Jesus did not concern himself with being popular or obtaining a large following, His only concern was for people and the truth.
 
ManofGod said:
You are right, the number of people believing in something does not make it right. However, two things: One is the something is, therefore I believe. The second is, narrow is the gate that leads to life and few are those that enter into it. Religion itself is a farce, at least as far as man made stuff is concerned. Also, study the scriptures and you will find that Jesus did not concern himself with being popular or obtaining a large following, His only concern was for people and the truth.
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You say religion is farce as far as man made stuff concerned, and yet your whole faith is based on a book written by Men. The book you are basing your faith on has probably been translated incorrectly or missing loads of information because it didn't suit the agenda of whatever group was pushing that version of the Bible.

And you continue to use quotes from the bible as proof of your argument, That's like using quotes from ET as proof that Aliens exist. A discussion with you is like having a discussion with those people who believe the Earth is flat. They deny any evidence that shows them wrong. And if you prove them wrong they go back into their little shell and quote stuff that doesn't apply to the argument, doesn't prove anything they say and doesn't really make any sense what so ever.

You keep saying your God is the One True God, how do you know? Without quoting crap from the Bible, how can you know? This sentiment of yours has been around since humans began. Every God ever worshipped has been shown to be made up, out of fear, desperation or as a way to control people. Or, as in the case of the Hebrew God, as an All powerful being that was going to Save Israel and her people. Our God is better than yours. The Egyptian Gods lasted more than 3000 years. Heck, as a species, we have worshipped the Sun longer than anything else.

God and Jesus are based on traits of older Sun Gods and even the date of the birth of Christ, the 25th of December, was taken from a Roman celebration of the Sun which had been held on that day.

The Old Testament is a collection of Stories to present a religious ideology rather than a book of history.
 
Wow..

There was a time when I considered going to seminary. So I learned Hellenist Greek, some Hebrew, and dug into reading the modern bible from it's source documents (The Greek Text, Masoretic Text, and Septuagint Text).

There were some things I learned from those readings:

1. Most (all) English translations of new or old testament are horrible, wretched, documents created by an ecumenical myopia and outright fraud.

2. Jesus never founded a religion. The dude was a liberal radical.

3. Jesus had more in common with Abbie Hoffman than any church or modern depiction of him.

4. Politicians, Clergy, and rich people do not want you to know what I outlined in the first 3 points.

That being said....

Science, observation, correlation, and analysis always exceed in accuracy anything learned from biblical history.

So bring on the aliens. I'm ready. Let's find out what an interstellar species can say about the universe around us. Let's use that brain that was supposedly put in place by a deity.

And for the love of *whatever* stop using belief or faith as a weapon against others. No one is so "right" that they earn a free pass for being an ass. No one is so wrong that they deserve to be scorned.

Remember- calling someone a fool (raca) is supposed to put you in danger of hellfire.
 
Spirit_Retro said:
No one is so "right" that they earn a free pass for being an ass. No one is so wrong that they deserve to be scorned.
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I can't really agree with this. Sometimes the person in the right needs to be aggressive to get their point across to one that isn't listening. Like parents to a child that isn't listening.

As for being wrong, again, false. People being wrong results in things like others dying. Being wrong about a magical man is not an OK thing. It still affects people. Christianity affects the politics, laws, politicians, etc in America every day. Same with Islam and terrorism. They're WRONG but yet they still can do what they want and negatively affect us all.

Definitely off topic but I just think what you say just isn't true and it's not a very good mindset to have.
 
Spirit_Retro said:
And for the love of *whatever* stop using belief or faith as a weapon against others. No one is so "right" that they earn a free pass for being an ass. No one is so wrong that they deserve to be scorned.

Remember- calling someone a fool (raca) is supposed to put you in danger of hellfire.
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Then reread the thread because I never did any of the sort, even once. :rolleyes:
 
Mut1ny said:
I can't really agree with this. Sometimes the person in the right needs to be aggressive to get their point across to one that isn't listening. Like parents to a child that isn't listening.

As for being wrong, again, false. People being wrong results in things like others dying. Being wrong about a magical man is not an OK thing. It still affects people. Christianity affects the politics, laws, politicians, etc in America every day. Same with Islam and terrorism. They're WRONG but yet they still can do what they want and negatively affect us all.

Definitely off topic but I just think what you say just isn't true and it's not a very good mindset to have.
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You know that what you are saying is wrong, right? That is unless, of course, you do not think hospitals, universites, charities, mercy, grace, love and other such stuff are all negative. Also, when did you see mass shootings, murders and terrorism by true Born Again Believers, I.E.: Christians.
 
ManofGod said:
You know that what you are saying is wrong, right? That is unless, of course, you do not think hospitals, universites, charities, mercy, grace, love and other such stuff are all negative. Also, when did you see mass shootings, murders and terrorism by true Born Again Believers, I.E.: Christians.
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Ever heard of the crusades? Just stop, you're an embarrassment.
 
theplaidfad said:
Ever heard of the crusades? Just stop, you're an embarrassment.
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First, you do not even know what the crusades were. Second, they were not started by Born Again Believers, IE: Christians but, they were ended by one. Do some true historical research and discover that what you think is and what is are not the same thing at all. No embarrassment on my part, I actually have taken the time to study and learn some things I did not know in the past.

Also, someone saying they are Christian and doing bad things and someone being a Christian are not one in the same.
 
ManofGod said:
You know that what you are saying is wrong, right? That is unless, of course, you do not think hospitals, universites, charities, mercy, grace, love and other such stuff are all negative. Also, when did you see mass shootings, murders and terrorism by true Born Again Believers, I.E.: Christians.
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Mut1ny never stated that Christianity was tied to mass shootings in his post. He clearly stated that Islam and terrorism were linked. He correctly stated that Christianity affects Americans on an almost daily basis, and a lot of it is negative. You imply that Christianity is responsible for "hospitals, universities, charities, mercy, grace, love." However, I am an atheist and I regularly perform volunteer work, donate to charities, help disadvantaged children and communities with STEM activities and organization of science fairs, etc. None of that has anything to do with Christianity. None of that is derived from some morality rooted in religious doctrine (you know, the common argument that only religion can provide morality). I do it because I am a human and I am capable of helping other humans. This is called "humanism." Why don't you show me examples of true humanists hurting anyone. Want some examples of Christians doing crappy things? How about Waco. Or the Oklahoma City Bombing. Or the Centennial Olympic Park Bombing. Or abortion clinic bombings. Or the Charleston church shooting. Or the Ku Klux Klan.

Heck, why don't you look up the controversy involving the Catholic Church and St. Joseph's Hospital in Phoenix, Arizona (since you brought up hospitals). A pregnant mother, who already had four other children and a husband, was given almost a 100% chance of dying if she continued the pregnancy (her almost guaranteed death would have seriously endangered the fetus, of course). The senior nun, who had been with the Church for over 30 years, sided with the medical team and agreed with the abortion. The Church excommunicated her, and eventually severed all ties with the hospital after the medical board would not guarantee not to perform another abortion under similar circumstances. This is just one way, of many, that Christian beliefs impact Americans every day.

But I guess you would just say that none of these cases involved "true Born Again Believers." After all, in this thread, you seem to be the authority on what qualifies someone to be a Christian. You would probably also just say that Catholics are not Christians. Pretty much every excuse I know you will give, will just be semantics mixed together with some arrogance.
 
Neslepax said:
Mut1ny never stated that Christianity was tied to mass shootings in his post. He clearly stated that Islam and terrorism were linked. He correctly stated that Christianity affects Americans on an almost daily basis, and a lot of it is negative. You imply that Christianity is responsible for "hospitals, universities, charities, mercy, grace, love." However, I am an atheist and I regularly perform volunteer work, donate to charities, help disadvantaged children and communities with STEM activities and organization of science fairs, etc. None of that has anything to do with Christianity. None of that is derived from some morality rooted in religious doctrine (you know, the common argument that only religion can provide morality). I do it because I am a human and I am capable of helping other humans. This is called "humanism." Why don't you show me examples of true humanists hurting anyone. Want some examples of Christians doing crappy things? How about Waco. Or the Oklahoma City Bombing. Or the Centennial Olympic Park Bombing. Or abortion clinic bombings. Or the Charleston church shooting. Or the Ku Klux Klan.

Heck, why don't you look up the controversy involving the Catholic Church and St. Joseph's Hospital in Phoenix, Arizona (since you brought up hospitals). A pregnant mother, who already had four other children and a husband, was given almost a 100% chance of dying if she continued the pregnancy (her almost guaranteed death would have seriously endangered the fetus, of course). The senior nun, who had been with the Church for over 30 years, sided with the medical team and agreed with the abortion. The Church excommunicated her, and eventually severed all ties with the hospital after the medical board would not guarantee not to perform another abortion under similar circumstances. This is just one way, of many, that Christian beliefs impact Americans every day.

But I guess you would just say that none of these cases involved "true Born Again Believers." After all, in this thread, you seem to be the authority on what qualifies someone to be a Christian. You would probably also just say that Catholics are not Christians. Pretty much every excuse I know you will give, will just be semantics mixed together with some arrogance.
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A Christian is someone who is Born Again, someone who is of the way. Look into the Gospel of John and The Book of Acts if you doubt me. Otherwise, eh, I am in a garage and therefore, I am a Chevy, right? The fact is, he attempted to tie the two things together because otherwise, why mention them at all together in the same post? That is ok though, it is what it is.

A Christian is a follower of Christ, a little Christ and only someone who is Born Again can be a follower of Christ. Only someone who knows Christ can follow Christ because, after all, how can you follow someone you do not know, where they are or even who they are. Being called a Christian was meant to be an insult......... Jesus literally said that unless a Man is Born Again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.

Anyone who comes to me must deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow Me. Why would anyone who does not know Christ personally take up an instrument of execution and death to ones self if they do not actually know the one they are to follow? (Christ Himself, that is.)
 
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ManofGod said:
A Christian is someone who is Born Again, someone who is of the way. Look into the Gospel of John and The Book of Acts if you doubt me. Otherwise, eh, I am in a garage and therefore, I am a Chevy, right? The fact is, he attempted to tie the two things together because otherwise, why mention them at all together in the same post? That is ok though, it is what it is.
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Except, as has been stated in this thread, the modern Bible is not a perfect translation of the original texts, many of which no longer exist. How do you explain this? So you are claiming that true Christians need to adhere to a book that contradicts itself repeatedly and has been translated repeatedly (and probably incorrectly). How do you know that the current iteration of the Bible is correct? What if some of the words and phrases were screwed up, left out, or simply lost in translation over the centuries? I guess you just have faith that "this" iteration of the Bible (whichever one you read) is the correct one.
 
ManofGod said:
Do some true historical research and discover that what you think is and what is are not the same thing at all.
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That's good advice and something that you should follow yourself. That you think the Old Testament is 100% fact speaks to your complete lack of research on it.

ManofGod said:
I actually have taken the time to study and learn some things I did not know in the past.
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You need to learn some more. Your knowledge of the Bible is sorely lacking.

Please come back to the discussion when you do some research and can separate fact from fiction.
 
tangoseal said:
You are so wild in your assumptions of what something is or is not and you apply such an overkill perspective of using SOUL in a court of law as your defining characteristic.

No one said anything about proving or disproving what a soul is. It is the fact that you are so ready and willing and die hard to admit that there is absolutely NO POSSIBILITY of a soul. That is the defining characteristic between someone who is truly close minded or someone that has the ability to discern that there just might be possibilities in the universe that maybe just maybe little ole' me on tiny little Earth can comprehend.

I mean have you ever seen a photo of the Earth from a satellite orbiting Saturn. We look like an infinitesimally small little speck of light and our entire solar system looks like an infinitesimally small speck of light to another star system. The Hubble Deep Field images focused on a spec of sky the size of a penny if you held it at arms length for a long period of time and discovered that there were thousands and thousands of specks of light and when scientists zoomed in they discovered each speck was an entire galaxy each filled with hundreds of billions of stars each with the possibility of countless planetary bodies.

And you sit here and act like there is absolutely NO CHANCE there is a soul or God.

But I digress we are tech forum and this discussion is probably not a welcome discourse so I make this my final post on this forum topic.

Matthew 10:14 - "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet."
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Chance of god? IMO, not implausible.

But chance of Christian / Muslim / Jew / younameit god?

0. None.

Religion is a human fabrication. Nothing more. Nothing else.

Which is why I'm an agnostic. I can believe in higher beings simply because we do not know what we do not know. But accepting the Bible when it is simply a collection of cool tales with 0 backing... nope. Thanks.
 
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