you're leaving out an important fact...the cops asked him to keep his hands in the air...he did but then brought them back down...in these type of situations, even if you're innocent you need to obey the commands given to you...imagine if you were a cop in an unknown possible hostage situation and you see a guy raise his hands and then bring them back down...like I said split second decisions...now I do think police should be trained to go for leg or non-kill shots but that's another story
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you're leaving out an important fact...the cops asked him to keep his hands in the air...he did but then brought them back down...in these type of situations, even if you're innocent you need to obey the commands given to you...imagine if you were a cop in an unknown possible hostage situation and you see a guy raise his hands and then bring them back down...like I said split second decisions...now I do think police should be trained to go for leg or non-kill shots but that's another story
So you're saying they murdered him for not following instructions?
How is that a good and/or legal thing?
Other countries don't have their cops murder people because they don't always do what they're told so don't give me some nonsensical arguments about how it can't be done any other way safely.
Oh so the cops said he didn’t keep his hands in the air ... the same cops that shot and killed an unarmed innocent man and then took no responsibility ... you will excuse me if I take what the cops say with a huge grain of salt.
The victims mom disputes what police say and she says her son was not given any verbal commands
The victims mom disputes what police say and she says her son was not given any verbal commands
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you're over-dramatizing things...of course they didn't murder him for that...you need to take the entire situation into perspective...I'm saying it's not 100% the cops' fault...
which is the reason a lot of law enforcement agencies now require their officers to wear body cams
other countries don't have the murder rate that the USA does...they also don't have as many law enforcement fatalities on the job
And I'm saying your reasoning is faulty at best.
The cop has all the responsibility when it comes to deciding when and if to pull the trigger and part of that responsibility is assessing danger.
Is it hard to do that in a snap decision setting? Absolutely. But that is the job.
assessing danger is not an exact science...there is no scientific formula or calculation for doing it...it all falls on the person in that situation to make a judgement call
What does the murder rate have to do with it? That isn't a indicator of civilian on cop violence. That is nearly all civilian on civilian violence and its been on a steep decline for decades now too.
3 cop deaths per 1 million people isn't all that many realistically speaking.
I already posted the chart on this page showing mechanics have a more dangerous job if you want to continue with the "its such a dangerous job" tangent. And civilian on cop violence has been declining for years too.
Is visually confirming the guy had a gun a "science"??
If, for any other job, a given person couldn't visually identify the necessary things correctly would you expect that person to not only keep that job but get that job in the first place?
again you're making it seem so easy...it was nighttime, the guy was wearing clothes right?...so you're telling me that cops have x-ray eyes and can scan the victim's body to determine if he has a weapon?...determining if a person is armed is not so simple as you seem to think it is which is the reason cops ask people to place their arms above their heads...you do realize that most people hide weapons and don't display them out in the open?
I'm not saying it was easy. I'm saying he didn't see the gun, made an assumption (which is bad in lethal situations), and murdered the guy.
He doesn't need x-ray vision, he just had to visually see the gun. If he couldn't do that, and you seem to be assuming he couldn't based on your comment, he shouldn't have shot.
Can't see a gun = no shoot. No science involved in that decision making process at all.
And again, the guy was across the street, the cops had their guns out, body armor on, and triggers on fingers. Don't tell me they couldn't popped him the instant they saw a gun. Faster than he could've gotten a shot off. Certainly a aimed one with a pistol at that distance. In practical terms the risk to them and the people around wasn't anything requiring them to kill him just for not exactly following instructions.
Riccochet
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Can't tell shit from the shooting video. I suspect there were multiple officers all yelling conflicting orders at the same time and when dude followed one order, and not the other five, a trigger happy LEO started shooting when their commands were not followed.
Cops almost always beat the charges.
The legal bar for them is "I felt threatened" and not "I was actually at risk" when it comes to killing someone in these situations.
The cop in this video was found not guilty and walked, got his pension and everything too and he straight up murdered that guy for adjusting his pants at the wrong time.
edit: assumed you were talking about the cop, sorry if I'm wrong and you mean the asshole who did the swatting. Not sure if he'll get busted but I hope so.
D
Deleted member 93354
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I'm not saying there aren't bad cops. Cops are rather nervous these days as they have become hated and targets themselves. But for the vast part, police officers are there to help you. The vast majority of them do a tough job, with a lot of danger and little appreciation returned. Just know most cops are good and doing a public service.
The lesson of the day is, always do what the police officers tells you.
I think the cop who shot him will say that he saw him reaching for something in his waistband
I'm sure he will. And I'm sure that tack will work in a court of law based on how the current legal system works.
But how did he know it was a gun?
He couldn't of. He made an assumption. Which is exactly my point.
Cops/SWAT aren't supposed to kill on assumption.
D
Deleted member 93354
Guest
Yep there's going to be all kinds of lawsuits on this one. After watching the video, it's clear the swatter is an idiot.
dgingeri
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Listening to that video, this "SWAuTistic" guy is a total sociopath. He's got no empathy. He disregards his responsibility repeatedly and acts like he doesn't care that someone died.
Cops killed an unarmed man with no proof of any crime. Maybe they need to slow down a bit and stop playing Rambo.
Comixbooks
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Gamers are just caught in a trance that doesn't affect the real world until this shit happens.
D
Deleted member 126051
Guest
Cops need to stop acting like soldiers.
They're NOT soldiers.
Soldiers break things, blow stuff up and kill people when necessary.
Cops enforce the law and general public orderliness. And while I understand the Lifesaver's Dilemma (If you get killed how do you help people?), killing someone should never be their first option.
This guy walked out into floodlights in his face and some haphazardly yelled instructions from cops who were ready, armed and ACROSS THE STREET BEHIND POLICE CRUISERS.
The bodycam footage shows that the entire "interaction" lasted approximately 20 seconds before they popped his top. How realistically can one assess a situation in that short a space of time?
D
Deleted member 126051
Guest
Wow. Pretty broad brush you're painting with there...
Very few gamers I've encountered are misanthropic psychopaths like the SWAT'er.
Mchart
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I’m usually on the side of cops - but not this time, and not for these swatting cases in general.
It is fucking terrifying that a warrant was so easily signed off to enter the house to basically execute an innocent man inside his own property.
I hope this goes to the Supreme Court in some way and re-strengthens our constitutional rights as citizens.
I don’t really blame the cops here. I blame the fucking broken legal system that so easily allowed a persons constitutional rights to be broken.
It is fucking terrifying that a warrant was so easily signed off to enter the house to basically execute an innocent man inside his own property.
I hope this goes to the Supreme Court in some way and re-strengthens our constitutional rights as citizens.
I don’t really blame the cops here. I blame the fucking broken legal system that so easily allowed a persons constitutional rights to be broken.
He wasn’t punished. He was shot because the cops thought he was going for a weapon. You’re backseat driving here. Leave the legality of the shooting to courts and focus on the real issue here: abuse of our emergency services.
So what? If I was that co- and a hostage looked like he was reaching for a gun I’d shoot. Might be the perp in disguise.
he hired a murderer so, nope, no hope.
Nothing substantial to add other than to say this happened right between where I work and where I live. You never expect something like this to happen in your area and make the national news the same night.
I personally work very closely with all manner of police here in Wichita and the surrounding suburbs because of my occupation, and have yet to meet anyone who comes across as a trigger happy cowboy. This is an unfortunate situation for all sides, and the only thing I'll say is I hope our officers go forward with non-lethal as their primary option.
I personally work very closely with all manner of police here in Wichita and the surrounding suburbs because of my occupation, and have yet to meet anyone who comes across as a trigger happy cowboy. This is an unfortunate situation for all sides, and the only thing I'll say is I hope our officers go forward with non-lethal as their primary option.
Dead Parrot
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So video reports that the victim didn't immediately follow commands. Why are the "highly trained" police almost always given the benefit of the doubt when they do something wrong in a "Stressful situation" but an untrained civilian is expected to immediately and properly assess the situation and figure out exactly what to do? In this case the civilian appears to have gone, in the time it takes to open a door, from a peaceful evening with his family to having armed people yelling at him? And probably waving many bright lights in this face. I am guessing that if the roles were reversed, even the "highly trained" officers would fail to properly follow all instructions.
I get that Police work isn't easy. But in this case, a person was shot IN HIS OWN HOUSE, when he was DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL. And I don't buy that not immediately following the orders of screaming folks is illegal conduct when he had NO REASON to know what was going on.
Swatting is not new. It is fairly well publicized. Police need to develop better Situation Assessment protocols for when they arrive at a reported crime in progress location. In this case, with a reported shooting and hostage situation, are dogs barking? Neighbors outside wondering what the hell is going on? Screaming? People running away? Was there only one phone call or several?
Training needs to improve. I still think that most cops want to do the right thing. But the shoot first, figure it out later mentality that has evolved in the last couple of decades isn't making the job easier.
I get that Police work isn't easy. But in this case, a person was shot IN HIS OWN HOUSE, when he was DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL. And I don't buy that not immediately following the orders of screaming folks is illegal conduct when he had NO REASON to know what was going on.
Swatting is not new. It is fairly well publicized. Police need to develop better Situation Assessment protocols for when they arrive at a reported crime in progress location. In this case, with a reported shooting and hostage situation, are dogs barking? Neighbors outside wondering what the hell is going on? Screaming? People running away? Was there only one phone call or several?
Training needs to improve. I still think that most cops want to do the right thing. But the shoot first, figure it out later mentality that has evolved in the last couple of decades isn't making the job easier.
IcePickFreak
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Imagine this from the dead guys perspective. You're watching TV, all of a sudden you hear a bunch of commotion outside, see cops etc. Then you realize they're setting up on you, yelling etc, so you step outside (as I'm sure they "command" you to) confused as fuck, half a dozen flood lights in your face, and get shot one step out of the door.
ummm the sec you are surrounded by multiply police in full tactical gear and assault weapons you put your god damn hands on your head and get the fuck down to the floor.
AceGoober
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Uh, no.
Keep your hands away from your body and follow police commands. If they say to put your hands on your head, you do it. If they say get on the ground/floor, you do it.
Keep your hands away from your body and follow police commands. If they say to put your hands on your head, you do it. If they say get on the ground/floor, you do it.
This.
Phone numbers are crazy easy to spoof. Also, the fake address shouldn't be that big of a deal. You should not be putting your real address on anything on the internet that isn't absolutely necessary...
mullet
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This is horrible on so many levels. What is wrong with our youth.
naib
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unless you were playing CSGO and are high as fsck, then you pull the pin
Let's assume for a moment that it was a real hostage situation, because the police had no way of knowing whether or not it was at the time. If the person was pulling a gun inaction could leave people dead. If police hesitation had led to the death of a fellow officer or an innocent then the officer that hesitated would be getting lynched by the media and people like you. It is a no-win situation that provides no right answer. We have the benefit to analyze this long after the fact and look at everything. The police didn't have that. What they knew is that there was a possible hostage situation and it was reported that two people were shot, with one person dead and someone holding two living hostages at gun point. There was also a risk that someone would start a fire, the caller said they poured gasoline all over and was thinking about lighting it. The police MUST take those claims seriously. They have to act like it is a real event, if they don't their inaction could led to the hostages being murdered and the murderer getting away. The media would, rightfully, descend on any department that allowed that to happen and there would be multi-million dollar lawsuits and several people losing jobs, if not facing criminal charges.
The short body-cam video the police released shows at least one command being given. Beyond that, all we have are two conflicting statements.
Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
He would have to be an expert marksman to pull a weapon, aim, fire and actually hit something.
One officer with an itchy trigger finger becomes judge, jury and executioner.
The po po screwed the pooch on this one.
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it's real http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...ws-cops-shoot-swatting-prank-victim-dead.html
added 'at' and an 's'
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