Time to file a PayPal dispute?

i'd refuse to accept it too.

seller sends out working board has 230 previous transactions that show he's a worthwhile seller.

buyer breaks it blames seller and starts thread. also with one bad feedback i would have avoided at all costs.

thrash408 said:

Mothman, did you put insurance on the board before you shipped? If not, you need to. If you did, why didn't you just take the board back and open a case with who you shipped it with? If it has damages, you have a better chance of getting your money back going that route then fighting with this guy on Hard.

I honestly don't think you tried to scam this guy, and why would he try to scam you as he was the buyer? Looks like bad luck, and you just have to take it and move on. Coming in this thread and blowing it up is not going to help anything man. I've received bad stuff from people here on hard, and every time they have immediately refunded money and offered to pay to ship it back. I even had a guy refund me money from an entire computer that i purchased because the PSU fried my video card once i plugged it in. He straight up paid for a new PSU and refunded some of the card cost and no questions asked.

Anyways, moral of the story is have insurance on all items shipped. As a seller, you have to be ready to deal with stuff like this or don't sell at all. Hope you guys can work out a deal and not fuck each others heat / reputation up over a old motherboard :/

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All of you who have passed judgement on me are missing the one vital point in this whole fiasco and that is I tested, inspected, carefully packed and shipped a perfectly working motherboard in excellent clean condition with no scraped traces or other damage. Though I can't physically prove that, my 213 successful transactions here on [H] are testament to my honesty, integrity and trustworthiness, Oh but once again I forgot Heatware and references aren't important here. That's my side of the story and I will not waiver on it. Now his side can also distilled down to one basic question and that is on October 29, 2017, the day he received the motherboard from me he replied that 'It Looks Good' and reported no damage or other physical problems with the board ..Now I ask all of you what is the first thing you would do upon receiving a used motherboard, you would carefully inspect it for damage right ? you would check the socket for bent pins, the Pci-e clips, Ram slots and clips and you would certainly check for burnt connections, blown capacitors and yes scraped, cut and otherwise damaged circuit traces. Once again he reported no damage of any kind upon receiving the board. I'm thinking everything is fine and have absolutely no thought of anything but the board firing up and performing as I left it. It wasn't until NINE DAYS LATER that he contacted me and said 'There's a Problem' Ask yourselves what conditions was the board subjected to over those nine days in his possession. And ask yourselves upon receipt of the returned board and my photo documentation of opening and inspecting it, I immediately saw the very obvious Damaged, cut traces. Why in the name of god would he have not seen these when he first received the board from me. I'll tell you why, BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T THERE !!! and you want me to accept a deal on his terms ? fuck that and I've offered him two fair settlements that he has rejected.

Mothman, i believe this what you were trying to share with everyone:


i have been out and about today with the kids, so while i have been able to pop in and reply, i wanted to wait until i could post the message stream you tried to do so earlier. if it is not complete, please call me out on it.

i opened the box looked at the board and didn't see anything that immediately popped out at me that said "OH SHIT, this isn't going to work" so yes i said it looked good. i should have taken pictures, because i would love to know now whether or not those marks existed or not then and if so when they came into being. sadly i didn't. i did however take pictures before i sent it back to you, and even posted them for scrutiny prior to securing an agreement for me to ship back the board. they are still there. i zoomed in as much as i could on the admittedly dark picture and saw they were in fact present in that picture. i then agreed that they were there in my presence. i could have denied it, the picture has been there since the 19th and no one has mentioned them. you did not. the videos have been viewed as of right now 7 & 5 times each, were you one of them? i had the board for 3 weeks, not the better part of two months. i showed that in the first post. i have been completely open and honest during this entire thing.

according to wikipedia "An ATX power supply provides a number of peripheral power connectors and (in modern systems) two connectors for the motherboard: a 8-pin auxiliary connector providing additional power to the CPU and a main 24-pin power supply connector, an extension of the original 20-pin version." you also claim the board will also shut down when any short is detected. the board starts to power up with a 24pin connector, but stops short of booting. the PSU detects a short and refuses to come on when the 8-pin connector is attached. perhaps there are multiple faults, because i have demonstrated both behaviors. assuming what i linked to is correct about the purpose of the additional 8-pin connector, i seriously doubt ASUS decided to take the long way around between that connector and the VRMs an inch away feeding the CPU. but i am not an EE with experience on circuit layout for modern Motherboard designs, so this speculation on my part. at this point i don't know how much it really matters

you claim i deserve to be made to wait. i tried to communicate with you, you accused me of damage without anything to base it on. not once did you ask me for pictures, ask me what was going on, ask to have the board sent back to you for inspection. you questioned my integrity from the start. from the start i have acted openly and honestly. i gave you the benefit of the doubt when you would not extend it to me. you lied about my heatware, you lied about how long i have had the board, you accuse me of damage and trying to scam you, all the while claiming your impeccable integrity.

and i am still trying to be fair with you. i have left my self open for judgement, i haven't asked anyone to declare you in the right or the wrong. i haven't made a single disparaging remark about you or your character. i acknowledge there is a possibility that i might have caused additional damage to a board that arrived to me DOA in the process of proving it DOA. i have offered you a reduced payout, and given my thought process behind it. you want to take the ball and go home, so be it, but don't dare say i haven't been fair to you.

"Send the board back and I'll refund your money" Mothman Nov 17, 2017.

This is proof of a refund offer from Mothman. Don't make the offer if you can't honor it. Sorry Mothman, but you have nobody to blame except yourself. Hopefully this is a learning experience for you. Take detailed photos of your motherboards before shipping them.

janas19 said:

"Send the board back and I'll refund your money" Mothman Nov 17, 2017.

This is proof of a refund offer from Mothman. Don't make the offer if you can't honor it. Sorry Mothman, but you have nobody to blame except yourself. Hopefully this is a learning experience for you. Take detailed photos of your motherboards before shipping them.

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that'd be what he should do.

if the board was in the same exact condition it was sent out as.

and since it's dead it is not likely the same condition.

janas19 said:

"Send the board back and I'll refund your money" Mothman Nov 17, 2017.

This is proof of a refund offer from Mothman. Don't make the offer if you can't honor it. Sorry Mothman, but you have nobody to blame except yourself. Hopefully this is a learning experience for you. Take detailed photos of your motherboards before shipping them.

Click to expand...

I made that offer before receiving the board back and noticing the damaged traces, that my judgemental friend changed everything. Read the entire thread before making anymore ignorant comments.

ryan_975 said:

time

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Master_shake_ said:

that'd be what he should do.

if the board was in the same exact condition it was sent out as.

Click to expand...

No, you are wrong. The refund offer was not conditional.

Send the board back and I'll refund your money.

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Where do you see "I will refund your money *if the board is sent back in the same condition"? Hint: it's not there. Because Mothman did not take photos proving the board's condition. That iz the seller's fault, not the buyers.

mothman said:

I made that offer before receiving the board back and noticing the damaged traces, that my judgemental friend changed everything. Read the entire thread before making anymore ignorant comments.

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You are the one who sounds ignorant. "I take back what I said before, because now the motherboard is damaged and I don't want to refund you anymore."

You really have 200+ trades and are trying this lame excuse?

janas19 said:

No, you are wrong. The refund offer was not conditional.



Where do you see "I will refund your money *if the board is sent back in the same condition"? Hint: it's not there. Because Mothman did not take photos proving the board's condition. That iz the seller's fault, not the buyers.

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because when you buy something and try to use it any physical damage is not acceptable.

that's how sales work. conditions be damned.

physical damage is not covered by ANYBODY.

so if it was broken in half then whoopsie-daisy?

janas19 said:

You are the one who sounds ignorant. "I take back what I said before, because now the motherboard is damaged and I don't want to refund you anymore."

You really have 200+ trades and are trying this lame excuse?

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If you are challenging that I don't have over 200 successful trades all here on Hardforum here they are: Heatware, https://www.heatware.com/u/77136/to, 213-0-0 and you obviously have very little understanding of the situation by making such uniformed yes totally ignorant comments. Did you understand that I sent him an undamaged board and received a damaged board in return. Of course I'm going to withdraw the offer because now I have a board that I can't even test

Holy shit I can't believe I read this entire thread

Mothman you are defensive, abrasive, and your refusal to accept any liability in this is what would push me to have just disputed it from the get-go if I was op.

Also lol at the internet tough guy act, "I posted my address"

If I were in your shoes mothman I would have been far more amiable and helpful instead of immediately taking the defensive, I have a feeling that if you were friendlier and more helpful from the start the 50/50 offer would have been accepted.

IDKSOLOL.


Oh, here's my 108 positive heat starting in 2004 since it seems to validate arguments
https://www.heatware.com/u/24088/to

Master_shake_ said:

that'd be what he should do.

if the board was in the same exact condition it was sent out as.

and since it's dead it is not likely the same condition.

Click to expand...

And you have no proof otherwise from Mothman that he didn't damage it himself. So don't take sides. The fix for this is accept the $75 refund and both go their ways. But as you can see here, only one side has shown proof, and the other side has still not refunded the money.

Master_shake_ said:

because when you buy something and try to use it any physical damage is not acceptable.

that's how sales work. conditions be damned.

physical damage is not covered by ANYBODY.

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Right.

I do agree that a buyer can't simply beat their purchase with a sledgehammer and return it for a refund. Yet as I said, unfortunately Mothman did not take photos of the motherboard before shipping to prove beyond any doubt that the damage wasn't already there or was not caused in the process of shipping. Therefore if a dispute arises, the liability for damage rests upon him, the seller.

NIZMOZ said:

And you have no proof otherwise from Mothman that he didn't damage it himself. So don't take sides. The fix for this is accept the $75 refund and both go their ways. But as you can see here, only one side has shown proof, and the other side has still not refunded the money.

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i see he has 213 times before provided a working product.

that right there shows that he didn't collect 213 good feedbacks just to send 1 bad product just to rip someone off.

Master_shake_ said:

i see he has 213 times before provided a working product.

that right there shows that he didn't collect 213 good feedbacks just to send 1 bad product just to rip someone off.

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And that means NOTHING. Doesn't mean this one time he accidentally damaged the board when removing it from the case and he didn't notice it himself. One bad transaction in 213 is actually a good ratio, and he should accept it and refund the money. As I see it right now, Mothman is the one trying to rip someone off.

Master_shake_ said:

i see he has 213 times before provided a working product.

that right there shows that he didn't collect 213 good feedbacks just to send 1 bad product just to rip someone off.

Click to expand...

OP also has a long established history here on hard and he doesn't come across as a scammer if you read his posts. While his history at hard isn't directly equivalent to heat I think it removes the scammer option off of the table.

This thread alone is worth more than the transaction itself from my point of view...
Both parties should accept a near 50/50 settlement just to call it a day and move on.

I can be picky too but I do value reputation and such and 200+ heatware and 10k + post is more valuable than a board to me.
I do understand that one party will feel abused accepting this but keep in mind that life goes on and stubbornness from this thread may negatively impact future trades / opportunity...

My 2 cents + 2 more for the ride !

i have stated multiple times, if he can show it was good before shipment i'll take full responsibility for the damage, apologize and drop any claim for a refund. i pointed out it was present in the pictures when i was alerted to damage by Mothman. i could have just as easily asked why they were not there in my pictures prior to shipment. but that wouldn't have been honest or fair to the seller.

Damn, I never saw such hand-wringing over a $100 board

It's entirely possible that both users had good intentions here and that neither really knows what happened. Probably an accident at some point that went unnoticed.

Knowing that buyers are typically favored in disputes, I think the seller should have tried to settle this quickly without all the drama. He has a strong trading reputation...it's worth more than $100. This isn't the hill to die on.

sabrewolf732 said:

Holy shit I can't believe I read this entire thread

Mothman you are defensive, abrasive, and your refusal to accept any liability in this is what would push me to have just disputed it from the get-go if I was op.

Also lol at the internet tough guy act, "I posted my address"

If I were in your shoes mothman I would have been far more amiable and helpful instead of immediately taking the defensive, I have a feeling that if you were friendlier and more helpful from the start the 50/50 offer would have been accepted.

IDKSOLOL.


Oh, here's my 108 positive heat starting in 2004 since it seems to validate arguments
https://www.heatware.com/u/24088/to

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As another member of the Judge and Jury has arrived sabrewolf732 and has missed the point entirely. Did you notice that he waited NINE DAYS to inform me of any problem ? Hell Yes I was a little ticked and suspicious given his lack of any references. You who pass judgement on me have also failed to notice that I have made two very fair settlement offers that were rejected out of hand. Also I didn't call him a 'Dick', 'Scam Artist', 'Abrasive', 'Defensive', 'Argumentative', 'Uncooperative' ect. ect. as I've been called here. All that I said to him was that I thought 'You must be doing something wrong' I didn't cuss at him, threaten him, assail him, berate him or demean him.

mothman said:

As another member of the Judge and Jury has arrived sabrewolf732 and has missed the point entirely. Did you notice that he waited NINE DAYS to inform me of any problem ? Hell Yes I was a little ticked and suspicious given his lack of any references. You who pass judgement on me have also failed to notice that I have made two very fair settlement offers that were rejected out of hand. Also I didn't call him a 'Dick', 'Scam Artist', 'Abrasive', 'Defensive', 'Argumentative', 'Uncooperative' ect. ect. as I've been called here. All that I said to him was that I thought 'You must be doing something wrong' I didn't cuss at him, threaten him, assail him, berate him or demean him.

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I'm not passing judgement, just offering you advice for the next time this happens. Since you don't recognize how you were abrasive in the messages posted by OP, perhaps an etiquette class would be useful.

No one is trying to crucify you, you've done most of the damage yourself with your attitude.

I've gone a week without opening a package/testing things, it happens with work/house/kids etc, so I can see how someone would wait 9 days before testing a new piece of kit.

Nimisys said:

i have stated multiple times, if he can show it was good before shipment i'll take full responsibility for the damage, apologize and drop any claim for a refund. i pointed out it was present in the pictures when i was alerted to damage by Mothman. i could have just as easily asked why they were not there in my pictures prior to shipment. but that wouldn't have been honest or fair to the seller.

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There's yet one more human element here that raises it's ugly head over and over again and that's trust. I know that the motherboard I sent you was in excellent, working, undamaged condition and you don't believe me even though I have 213 successful sales here on Hardforum to attest to the fact that I am indeed an honest, trustworthy person. You on the otherhand cannot produce a single reference of a successful transaction for people to judge your honesty and integrity. It will forever stand this way Nimisys as I will not waiver. I officially withdraw from this diiscussion at this time and will have no further comment.

mothman said:

There's yet one more human element here that raises it's ugly head over and over again and that's trust. I know that the motherboard I sent you was in excellent, working, undamaged condition and you don't believe me even though I have 213 successful sales here on Hardforum to attest to the fact that I am indeed an honest, trustworthy person. You on the otherhand cannot produce a single reference of a successful transaction for people to judge your honesty and integrity. It will forever stand this way Nimisys as I will not waiver. I officially withdraw from this diiscussion at this time and will have no further comment.

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No, there are two elements. One, you don't believe him either. But he has proof. You do not. So you are trying to force everyone because of your reputation here of 213 to believe you over his reputation here which is just as good IMHO, and he is way more mature than you as well.

You sir can not withdraw from this discussion till you REFUND the guy his money.

OP. it's time to open a Paypal Dispute.

The pic of the damage shows that somebody used a lot of force trying to get the board mounted in the case.
The inside edge of the mounting hole is torn up too, as if it wasn't lined up with the stand-off but the screw was forced in anyway.

It sure looks like somebody was frustrated with mounting the board in the case and just kept forcing it.
I'll not point fingers, but I have a definite opinion on how this happened.

All that said, the board MAY be repairable. I would offer, but for my blurry eyes and unsteady hands. It's been too long since I did
that type of work.


.

mothman said:

You on the otherhand cannot produce a single reference of a successful transaction for people to judge your honesty and integrity. It will forever stand this way Nimisys as I will not waiver. I officially withdraw from this diiscussion at this time and will have no further comment.

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I have done business on here before, buyer the majority of the time and occasionally as a seller. the people i have traded with are out there, however i will not drag them into this, as we did not trade heat and you would have to bother each of them for comment. that is not a fair thing to do to them from my perspective. if they are aware of this thread and want to speak up, so be it, but i will not solicit it from them. i stand on my actions alone. you are welcome to search the forum for anyone saying anything derisive about me when involved in a transaction. if i am as dishonest as you want me to be, then surely you will find something.

What a mess. Sad to see long time members act like this.

edit: after his fu PM to NIZMOZ, Mothman is definitely a DNT and in my opinion a shitty seller/buyer/member.

Mothman, thank you. i know it was a shitty situation, however i appreciate you coming to a settlement on this.

As offered, i allow you the opportunity to make the final post and then i will request this thread to be locked. if you would like to decline, please respond in our original PM thread and i am sure the Admins will be willing to lock this.

Glad it's settled between you both. I have officially added Mothman to my ignore list due to his attitude on how he handled this. I wish you both luck.

Look,

While nearly EVERYONE is freaking out, is it within possibility that neither one of you actually damaged the board and it was damaged in shipping?

To both OP and seller:

What is Return Shipping on Us and how do I activate it?

edit:

basically PayPal will refund you up to $30 shipping on a returned item. Photos of receipt and return package showing label required.

Kwaz said:

Look,

While nearly EVERYONE is freaking out, is it within possibility that neither one of you actually damaged the board and it was damaged in shipping?

Click to expand...

Helps if you read everything.

Interesting how I never sent him anything and I get this pm from mothman just now. Shows how bad of a person he is on these forums. Mods, need to deal with him.

I got something similar from him yesterday.

NIZMOZ said:

Helps if you read everything.

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I read the lot of it the other day after it ballooned to 3 pages.

Something about a scratch, possibly frying a PSU and whatnot.