Microsoft’s Windows 10 Update Strategy Is Showing Strains

Olle P said:
You've had time to migrate to Win 10 this fast?
We're still in the 3+ years preliminary evaluation period to make sure most software seems to work before implementing Win 10 on a few less sensitive machines. Full roll-out can then commence within a few years...
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I had nothing to do with the original migration. The person who did that got canned and I got brought onboard to fix the problem(s).
 
Definitely a big rough patch...

We will be done with a 1607 ->1703 upgrade by end of year... We are 95% done with our Win7 -> Win10 upgrade also. 10k clients.

So far we have only found 5 or 6 applications that had issues going through the upgrade. We deploy 700 apps, with about 1000 individual packages. So far all just needed to be repaired or reinstalled (more did but most repaired themselves at launch), 1 actually has a compatibility issue.

The biggest complaints were the simple things... pinned icons lost etc

Our biggest failure point was 2 things... 1 the upgrade errored and disappeared from SCCM (funny enough could find it in programs and features, install from network handy... little trick). We still are not yet sure why, the system prompts to restart, then nothing.

The second was about 2% of devices would get in a boot loop. You could revert back and rerun the update and in most cases succeed.

We are still trying to get use to the new methodology. While I would agree once a year would help, I think with a few upgrades both companies AND vendors will start smoothing stuff out.

We are already seeing smaller vendors who was extremely slow to update their products for .NET , Office, Windows etc now putting out updates to support these things a lot faster. There is a certain freedom to be forced to update and patch properly, we put it on MS and that it has to get done. This prevents the "... oh just don't deploy that patch for now, we will get a fix..." then one never comes or everyone gets focused on the new fire etc...

I also like the cumulative updates each month makes things really simple there as well...
 
Delicieuxz said:
Quotes from the article:



There is something that I think everybody should be aware of, about Microsoft's desire to rebrand Windows as a service. Whether something is a Product or a Service is a legal matter, and the classification impacts consumer and corporate rights and privileges. And if Microsoft is trying to get people to think of Windows as a service right now, it's because Microsoft is wanting to rebalance the distribution of rights, ownership, etc of their Windows products somewhere down the line. Perhaps Microsoft seeks to do away with perpetual Windows licenses, and to make Windows a monthly subscription service - which could fit Microsoft's claim that Windows 10 would be the last Windows.
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I hope I'm retired before they mange to turn windows into a service.

Sell me a license/software and let me use it as long as needed.
Quite with the constant new versions that add a couple minor features and cause formatting problems when opening the files with the older version.
 
Olle P said:
You've had time to migrate to Win 10 this fast?
We're still in the 3+ years preliminary evaluation period to make sure most software seems to work before implementing Win 10 on a few less sensitive machines. Full roll-out can then commence within a few years...
Click to expand...

You will find there are quite a few "IT Professionals" around here who have never supported more than 10 machines in an environment and thus really don't understand even slightly the staggering difference between small business and large enterprise.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
You will find there are quite a few "IT Professionals" around here who have never supported more than 10 machines in an environment and thus really don't understand even slightly the staggering difference between small business and large enterprise.
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So I guess you are only an "IT Professional" if you supported an Large Enterprise, eh? And if you have not, you are not really an IT Professional, eh? :rolleyes:
 
westrock2000 said:
if you like choices, you will LOVE Windows 10

windows-10-privacy-settings-b-400x318.jpg
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Each of those "privacy options" represent an orifice of where you are getting fucked.
The on/off switches are just nicely giving you the choice of taking it with or without lube. :D
 
Red Falcon said:
Each of those "privacy options" represent an orifice of where you are getting fucked.
The on/off switches are just nicely giving you the choice of taking it with or without lube. :D
Click to expand...
What it reminds me of is those freeware programs that are bundled with adware / spyware and gives you a checkbox to disable them during the install, but then it goes and installs others without your permission anyway.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
You will find there are quite a few "IT Professionals" around here who have never supported more than 10 machines in an environment and thus really don't understand even slightly the staggering difference between small business and large enterprise.
Click to expand...

The way you're gloating anyone would think it's rocket science.

I know only too well that corporate IT is the perfect place for the stupid to hide.
 
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I have too say none of the apps or new 3D modelling/VR features from the past three releases have been of any use to me or anyone else I know.

They just need to concentrate on making the core OS stronger, faster and more secure. Quit wasting time over all this bundled app crap. Let folks install that crap separately if they want it.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
You will find there are quite a few "IT Professionals" around here who have never supported more than 10 machines in an environment and thus really don't understand even slightly the staggering difference between small business and large enterprise.
Click to expand...

Supporting 10 people on your own is way tougher.

You are not one in several dozen of the IT Team to hide in if something major goes wrong. No other contractors or other support firms to blame. No 'I didn't get that memo!' excuses. The buck stops solely with you. And those 10 people could be running a company with multi-million turnover.

I've worked in both small and enterprise. Supporting small business is far more stressful. You can have the whole company looking at you in total panic saying "Fix us! Fix us please!!!"

In Enterprise there is always someone else who can do it if you can't. Well if professionally run there should be.
 
BulletDust said:
The way you're gloating anyone would think it's rocket science.

I know only too well that corporate IT is the perfect place for the stupid to hide.
Click to expand...
There was nothing gloating about my statement. I have no idea where you came up with that nonsense. I'm all too aware of the number of morons in larger IT shops. I'm just referring to the people here who clearly have no idea how a 1000+ PC domain runs acting like it isn't any different than their 10 PC network. It is a gross oversimplification to put it mildly.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
There was nothing gloating about my statement. I have no idea where you came up with that nonsense. I'm all too aware of the number of morons in larger IT shops. I'm just referring to the people here who clearly have no idea how a 1000+ PC domain runs acting like it isn't any different than their 10 PC network. It is a gross oversimplification to put it mildly.
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The difference between 2, 200,2000,2million is how disciplined people are... If a domain is setup correctly for 2 it will scale. If it isn't then there is bodge on top of bodge on top of bodge.
It is the management of those bodges that makes it hard and thus it comes downto poor IT personal and management.

This becomes painfully clear in corporations that then deal in business units especially with acquisition. Now username and permission grammar when. Merging domains become their own unique problem in larger organisations where you cannot just re-issue login names
 
Dekoth-E- said:
There was nothing gloating about my statement. I have no idea where you came up with that nonsense. I'm all too aware of the number of morons in larger IT shops. I'm just referring to the people here who clearly have no idea how a 1000+ PC domain runs acting like it isn't any different than their 10 PC network. It is a gross oversimplification to put it mildly.
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Problem is, I see no evidence of that here.

The biggest difference between corporate IT and small business is that corporate IT has bigger budgets to purchase Microsoft products whereas the small business will make more use of non proprietary systems to get the job done as they have a strict budget. The benefit to the tech when working for small business is that they have the opportunity to learn far more than just Microsoft, making them the better tech.

Naturally it can be assumed that corporations are going to subject a roll out to strict testing before implementing it within the organization.
 
naib said:
The difference between 2, 200,2000,2million is how disciplined people are... If a domain is setup correctly for 2 it will scale. If it isn't then there is bodge on top of bodge on top of bodge.
It is the management of those bodges that makes it hard and thus it comes downto poor IT personal and management.

This becomes painfully clear in corporations that then deal in business units especially with acquisition. Now username and permission grammar when. Merging domains become their own unique problem in larger organisations where you cannot just re-issue login names
Click to expand...

Find me an IT professional setting up a 10 PC domain the same way you would a 1000+ domain and I'll show you an IT professional wasting their time. Just because it can be setup to scale, doesn't mean that the average small IT guy is following best practices or frankly anything even close. I have almost never walked into a small IT shop and found anything even remotely representative of a large scale enterprise environment. Sorry it is going to take a little more than that to prove many of the people here aren't just running their mouths.
 
BulletDust said:
Problem is, I see no evidence of that here.

The biggest difference between corporate IT and small business is that corporate IT has bigger budgets to purchase Microsoft products whereas the small business will make more use of non proprietary systems to get the job done as they have a strict budget. The benefit to the tech when working for small business is that they have the opportunity to learn far more than just Microsoft, making them the better tech.

Naturally it can be assumed that corporations are going to subject a roll out to strict testing before implementing it within the organization.
Click to expand...


There are many differences, some good and bad depending on the situation.

Smaller shops have a lot more leeway in their solutions (more options since their solutions don't have to scale), they also tend to be more nimble and know their customer better (Sally uses x, y, z options etc). Though as a previous poster mentioned the technical buck stops there so they can have stress/pressure but this is subjective to what you do and where you work imo not size. Lot less politics, you get approval from your boss or a customer and you are moving forward with a solution.

Larger Environments are just a lot more complex. Talking about money and number of staff to hide behind is technically true but you also have to consider the need for complex communication, documentation, change control, political approvals etc. The very things you think are a benefit of a large organization can be your biggest pain point. Those people you say you can hide behind? Those can be the same people you have to get approval to fix or improve things.

I have worked in a smaller 1k environment and medium 10k environment building/deploying OS images, applications, updates, policy. Each for 5+ years.

Overall I would say smaller was easier and faster for change, yes cost can be a factor but the nimble nature, easier politics and less need to scale easily make it manageable even if "janky".
 
ManofGod said:
So I guess you are only an "IT Professional" if you supported an Large Enterprise, eh? And if you have not, you are not really an IT Professional, eh? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

While I agree the comment is a bit loaded and condescending... Larger environments typically add many more layers and add challenges to managing pretty much any solution.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Find me an IT professional setting up a 10 PC domain the same way you would a 1000+ domain and I'll show you an IT professional wasting their time. Just because it can be setup to scale, doesn't mean that the average small IT guy is following best practices or frankly anything even close. I have almost never walked into a small IT shop and found anything even remotely representative of a large scale enterprise environment. Sorry it is going to take a little more than that to prove many of the people here aren't just running their mouths.
Click to expand...

First rule to small business IT:

Lob the Windows server in the hopper out the back, wipe hands, go back inside and set up the domain with G-Suite.

The concept of Windows server's in small business is a joke.
 
dandirk said:
There are many differences, some good and bad depending on the situation.

Smaller shops have a lot more leeway in their solutions (more options since their solutions don't have to scale), they also tend to be more nimble and know their customer better (Sally uses x, y, z options etc). Though as a previous poster mentioned the technical buck stops there so they can have stress/pressure but this is subjective to what you do and where you work imo not size. Lot less politics, you get approval from your boss or a customer and you are moving forward with a solution.

Larger Environments are just a lot more complex. Talking about money and number of staff to hide behind is technically true but you also have to consider the need for complex communication, documentation, change control, political approvals etc. The very things you think are a benefit of a large organization can be your biggest pain point. Those people you say you can hide behind? Those can be the same people you have to get approval to fix or improve things.

I have worked in a smaller 1k environment and medium 10k environment building/deploying OS images, applications, updates, policy. Each for 5+ years.

Overall I would say smaller was easier and faster for change, yes cost can be a factor but the nimble nature, easier politics and less need to scale easily make it manageable even if "janky".
Click to expand...

Corporate IT is a horrible, isolated job. Give me a small business to manage any day.
 
BulletDust said:
First rule to small business IT:

Lob the Windows server in the hopper out the back, wipe hands, go back inside and set up the domain with G-Suite.

The concept of Windows server's in small business is a joke.
Click to expand...

That is the point I've been making the entire time. I'm not sure how you have missed that. Small business and Large enterprise are very difference spaces. Very few IT admins who operate in a SBE understand much if anything about enterprise.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
That is the point I've been making the entire time. I'm not sure how you have missed that. Small business and Large enterprise are very difference spaces. Very few IT admins who operate in a SBE understand much if anything about enterprise.
Click to expand...

I never denied this, my point was obviously enterprise and small business have different requirements.
 
With Win 10 I fail to notice anything significant other than bug fixes from the different versions while adding more. I just prefer the operating system to be out of the way doing its job well vice being in your face every time one turns around. I have multiple computers at home and Win 10 is just one big PITA. Quality and not quantity. What in the hell has the gaming mode etc. have done? I see zero performance difference - plus I record the screen using the driver or GPU card capability. As for corporations and businesses having hundreds of systems which have numerous variables, hardware and software on them, I just pity the IT department having to constantly deal with the endless updates and new bugs.
 
Hello user, would you like to AGREE to giving up your right to not AGREE to AGREE to this specific message that makes you AGREE to the last time you
were asked to AGREE to the initial time your politely asked to AGREE?

We have handsomely decided to install CANDY CRUSH ULTRA 2000 GENITAL SHAPES EDITION on your systems!
 
One day MS will take some of the data they steal and use it to actually listen to users and give them choices....

Yeah, not sure that will happen but it was a good thought.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
... really don't understand even slightly the staggering difference between small business and large enterprise.
Click to expand...
If I was at a large enterprise I think we'd be running something more contemporary than 32-bit Win 7.
I'm in healthcare, where some of the software is used in conjunction with (non computer) hardware that can be anything from brand new to more than ten years old. First the software functionality needs to be validated and verified by the hardware manufacturer (for each version of OS), then we (the users) need to verify that it works with the other software installed in our systems. If it doesn't function as advertised patients might die! This evaluation takes time, so the software is oldish before being cleared for use.
The additional level of problems is that older software is only "cleared" for older OS while new software might only work with a newer OS.
On top of that come of course everything related to personal integrity and data security...
 
I love it when people who have no actual experience in the Enterprise act like they are experts on how it should be done. Windows/Microsoft technologies work just fine in the Enterprise - if you set them up and maintain them correctly.
 
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