Elon Musk's Plan to Power the US on Solar Energy

Actually transmitting energy is a very wasteful process. It's completely pointless to generate all the power in one place. But he never said we should put up a 100x100 mile solar farm in Nevada to power the US, it was just an example to give the people a frame of reference of how much power solar can generate.
He assumed the people have half a brain and wouldn't actually think he's proposing a single 100 sq mile solar farm, guess he was wrong.

The most efficient way to generate power is to do it where the demand is. But you can't do that with nuclera or coal. Nobody wants that in their backyard. But noone cares about a few miles of solar farms. And you Immediately eliminated the greatest source of waste energy: long distance energy transport. Not to mention if every city or smaller county has it's own source and batteries (or other form of energy storage) then that's bye bye countrywide blackouts and bye bye single point attacks from terrorists.

His calculations base it around the availability of sun. Hence why he picked a southern desert area of the USA which has more stable areas of sunlight and less cloudy days.

But I could be wrong. Idiots like me apparently don't know how to read :D
 
Nuclear is a lot of things. Most of them are good things, or at least manageable things. Cheap, however, it is not and never has been. Reactors cost billions of dollars and usually go critical years later than scheduled. That's the kind of combo that makes it impossible to capitalize them without far more public money and risk than renewables currently use.

700-2200+ MWatts of generation capacity for a single nuclear plant. There is no other source that is cheaper and environmentally friendly in the long run, especially for the physical footprint.
 
Focused sun rays heating a fluid medium to steam turbines is vastly more efficient and lower maintenance
Citation needed here since there is good information that says otherwise, article here, but essentially power companies began to ditch CSP (Concentrated Solar Power) boiling salt/water plants for PVC power fields since operating costs are lower and initial outlay expenses are lower now too.

Essentially PVC panel developments and costs happened faster than expected and its improved enough now that the costs of installation typically cost the same or more than the panels themselves. There is like one CSP plant in the world right now, in Chile, that is claiming energy production costs on par or lower with PVC panels but much of that is due to its location which is near "perfect world" ideal so its not too likely that will be duplicated at more than a handful of other sites world wide.

without the need for rare earth elements. (For which there aren't enough for 100 square miles of panels)
Citation needed. Bear in mind that many of the common affordable panels aren't using the truly rare "rare earths" and they're recyclicable too. Also bear in mind new PVC tech, like the perovskite based stuff that is coming out of R&D now, doesn't even need any rare earths at all to work. Sure the efficiency is bad compared to most current panels but its so much cheaper that it doesn't much matter since you can buy 2 or 3 panels for less than the cost of 1 current silicon based panel and increase the total amount of power you get anyways.

sounds great until a freak storm , or a enemy nation state, or terrorist hits it.
What makes you think the current US power grid is all that resistent to terrorist attacks, natural disasters, or enemy nation states?

They run everything half assed and right up to the limits of the specs all the time in the current grid in order to improve profit margins so there isn't as much redundancy or resiliency as you might think.

Its notoriously unsecure, security through obscurity is the main defense in that industry which any expert will tell you is a joke against any real attack by even a small 3rd world power. A hurricane or earthquake that hit a few key areas randomly could easily disable power for significant portions the US for weeks too.

Really infrastructure security throughout much of the world, not just the US, is in a shitty state of affairs. No one can agree on what the standards should be and no one wants to pay to do it properly.

But I could be wrong.
You're not stupid and you read fine. Your problem is you don't understand that he (Musk) is making a broad and simplified general case as an example of how it'd be done, actual implementation details would vary considerably and he knows that. Nitpicking generalizations isn't at all reasonable.

You could easily break up that 100sq mi PVC panel plant over 4 or 5 stations across the southern US and still get the same net end result for instance. That would also greatly defray any power transmission and storage issues and would give you a degree of redundancy in the case of attacks or natural disasters or weather variations.
 
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700-2200+ MWatts of generation capacity for a single nuclear plant. There is no other source that is cheaper and environmentally friendly in the long run, especially for the physical footprint.
I like nuclear and I really would wish someone would get LFTR's working but realistically there is no reason to expect its going to happen and solar keeps improving enough in cost + efficiency to make the whole issue fairly moot.
 
All subsidized by the US tax payer. What a snake oil salesman.
I don't think there is a major power source that isn't subsidized by the US tax payer to some degree right now in the US. Even the privately owned profitable ones get subsidized by the US right now.

The fact of the matter is we wouldn't have our current infrastructure without the vast subsidies necessary to build and maintain it. At least with a large solar plant(s) like Musk is talking about we can get much, if not all, the US power and transportation energy needs domestically instead of relying on forgein sources without worrying much about any pollution anymore.
 
Are you aware of designs that utilize subcritical piles ( lower risk that critical piles) and linear accelerators to burn the transuranics from the spent fuel? The duration for which the spent fuel is radioactively harmful to humans reduces from 10,000+ years to 300-400 years.

Also, calculations have been performed on the subcritical pile + linear accelerator combo. The time to burn all transuranic waste ever generated in the US would be appropriately 15-20 years. Therefore, the reason it has not been performed yet is there is not YET enough risk from having the spent fuel (risk is not yet high enough, decided by ..... ?) to offset the research and construction costs. However, if society deemed it a priority, technical solutions exist to burn the spent fuel and drasticly shorten the time before the spent fuel activity reaches background levels.

Wait... So a LINAC hits transuranic waste with concentrated bursts of RF which causes a burn off of said waste in spent fuel? Is the burn off caused due to the reaction between RF from a LINAC and the metals of the fuel? Is it a function of heat? Both?
 
The thorium and liquid salt reactors are fascinating to me, but I think it will take too much money and time. Plus all the politicians and environmentalists have been painting nuclear power as the boogeyman for 40 years. Fukushima didn't help anybody's cause either.

I think building giant nuke plants or giant solar plants, or really any massive plant will be hampered by the transmission lines and the grid. Focus on smaller targets to power the metro areas. I mean, is there any lack of rooftops on corporate buildings anywhere?

And as far as home solar goes... right now it would cost me $30k for enough panels to do 99% of my needs in Texas, but that's before factoring in rechargeable electric cars, or battery power for nighttime use. But I'm sure there's a way to figure this out. I am interested in the roof shingle solar panel products.

Honestly though, will Big Oil ever really allow this to happen? That's the real question.
 
Honestly though, will Big Oil ever really allow this to happen? That's the real question.
Big Oil has little to no say in what the big infrastructure class power grid players do and the car companies aren't going to let themselves go belly up to protect Big Oil's profit margins.

At this point the biggest problem for cars is the cost and energy capacity of current batteries, but that finally seems to be improving significantly enough to make them more practical which is why we've seen several articles now by industry experts saying there'll be lots more electric cars on the road over the next decade.
 
Not sure if it's been said or not as I didn't read the entire thread.. but there was once a plan to power all of Europe, and later the entire world by solar power in just a small fraction of the Sahara desert. That plan was going forward in its infancy until World War 1 broke out, then all plans stopped. The science has been there for decades, and today our solar panels are vastly cheaper and far more efficient. We just need to do it, and the ONLY thing stopping us is science illiterate individuals thinking it can't be done, big oil interest whose greed makes them not want to lose their special privilege, and political deadlock that makes agreeing on something as simple as paying for a child's education nearly impossible to pass.
 
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Here's an article from last year: http://fortune.com/2016/05/06/elon-musk-tesla-lithium/

In it, Musk says they need basically the entire global output of lithium to meet their goals to produce cars. Since then, they've been talking about other issues and ignoring this because they don't want to spook investors. However, there is physically not enough Lithium production to cover his goals in any sort of reasonable timeframe. Now he thinks he can also make batteries sufficient to uphold the power grid of the entire country too?

Musk has done some great things, but this is just a crazy pipe-dream. There is zero ability for anyone to scale up like this due to physical realities of available resources.

Vanadium Redox batteries for grid storage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery

https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/VRB.pdf

http://www.uetechnologies.com/news/...-the-energy-storage-breakthrough-we-ve-needed
 
Big Oil has little to no say in what the big infrastructure class power grid players do and the car companies aren't going to let themselves go belly up to protect Big Oil's profit margins.

At this point the biggest problem for cars is the cost and energy capacity of current batteries, but that finally seems to be improving significantly enough to make them more practical which is why we've seen several articles now by industry experts saying there'll be lots more electric cars on the road over the next decade.

Big oil (and that includes every kind of fossil fuel like natural gas, etc) is more than just car and power companies. They are entangled in almost every aspect of modern business. Also, who do you think pays for our politicians to be elected? And every time you watch a documentary etc that says "paid for by the XYZ foundation"... yep. Exxon paid for the show. Also, plastic everything, plastic bags everywhere, all from oil. It's sad but it's the world we live in. I try not to think about it too much, it gets depressing.
 
Not sure if it's been said or not as I didn't read the entire thread.. but there was once a plan to power all of Europe, and later the entire world by solar power in just a small fraction of the Sahara desert. That plan was going forward in its infancy until World War 1 broke out, then all plans stopped. The science has been there for decades, and today our solar panels are vastly cheaper and far more efficient. We just need to do it, and the ONLY thing stopping us is science illiterate individuals thinking it can't be done, big oil interest whose greed makes them not want to lose their special privilege, and political deadlock that makes agreeing on something as simple as paying for a child's education nearly impossible to pass.
Last I checked the first proof of PVs was in the 1950’s and those were super inefficient
 
Here is what most of you will not understand. Renewables won't be competing with fossil fuels anytime soon in the short term. In the long term (50+ years), renewables are a much better investment since they obviously have much lower running costs (no feedstock) BUT, the upfront capital cost is very high. That is why companies like Apple, Google, Facebook etc. can invest in it and promote it. They have the capital to spare and are looking at this from a long term perspective. Now the other issue with renewables, specifically PV's, is that they generate when you really don't want them to. The biggest issue is that there are no great storage technologies out there that can store this over generation. Check out Hawaii and the issues they are having because they have too much PV's.

Oh and big oil, Exxon, Shell etc. are all investing in renewables too.
 
Instead of building some giant solar farm why not pass legislation requiring all new homes built from now on to have solar panels on the roof, let's say 1watt per sq ft of the home. Homes aren't already too expensive for most of the population anyway, and while we're at it we can switch everyone to ARM loans instead of fixed so they can afford to pay for the solar panels. The government can subsidize the solar panels too, before subsidies they were costing around $3-4 per kwh, and after subsidies they ended up costing consumers.....$3-4 per kwh.....hmmm....where did the subsidy go? And the company installing and warrantying the panels can ship all of their profits off to their parent company, and go bankrupt so the parent company keeps all the profits and then never has to replace any broken panels for free!

With this new legislation forcing panels and ARM loans or even better yet, second mortgages for the panels, the banks win, solar lobby wins, everyone wins! Oh except us, the normal citizen forced to work until we die to pay for all of it.
 
I am suprised at how when musk postulates something most folks think thats its a given. He is talking about building a structure that is 100 miles x 100 miles in area. Thats over 100 times the largest structure standing today. The dimensions are near inconcievable - macro engineering on a macro scale. Forget the solar aspect.

Tommy doe, brother of John, says that in building a 100 mile x 100 mile structure would provide clean water through condensation that can be shipped to all needy parts of the world. Lets build it. The largest structure today is in China - 1.7 million square meters.

This structure, even built in sections would be 258,998,811 square meters. Imagine how long it will take and how difficult it will be to make a structure that previously was only imagined as a space object.

Its only a thought experiment to show how certain problems can be solved. Its not a pre construction viability exercise. Its only a concept that could work if it could be built.

The space elevator fits this description.
 
Big oil (and that includes every kind of fossil fuel like natural gas, etc) is more than just car and power companies.
The guys doing the natural gas stuff and Big Oil are 2 different groups, you can't conflate them like that. And cars + energy.....that is the lion's share of their (Big Oil's) possible income though. Or do you believe that stuff like Vaseline or ball bearing lube make up the majority of petroleum sale revenues?

Also, who do you think pays for our politicians to be elected?
Sure Big Oil practically owns a decent chunk of Congress and various state legislatures but that doesn't mean they're invincible. Short of electric vehicles and/or PVC getting band the writing is on the wall here and Big Oil simply doesn't have the pull to make a ban happen.
 
Cool illustrative concept idea of what could be done. If we actually tried to do it, some environmental group would file endless court cases because of some desert lizard, tortoise, beetle or something. Plus suddenly creating that much demand for PV panels would probably spike prices. And we would have to build a new factory to crank out the many grid sized transformers needed for this project. Current non-emergency lead time is in years for one.

Putting a gigawatt or so setup next to an exsiting coal plant would allow easy connection to the grid with little extra expense. Good test case would be the coal plant recently retired in Nevada.
 
If we actually tried to do it, some environmental group would file endless court cases because of some desert lizard, tortoise, beetle or something.
There is tons of "useless" land that doesn't have any sort of endangered animal living there in desert areas of the US and 100sq mi is nothing compared to how much "useless" land there is in the US.

Plus suddenly creating that much demand for PV panels would probably spike prices. And we would have to build a new factory
Oh jeez you don't know what you're talking about. They wouldn't buy them all at once, that is a Big Business 101 no-no. They'd set up a contract buy amongst a group of PVC solar panel manufacturers over a period of time for a set price and gradually have the whole site brought up to full capacity. This sort of thing already happens now to avoid the issues you're talking about BTW.

Putting a gigawatt or so setup next to an exsiting coal plant would allow easy connection to the grid with little extra expense. Good test case would be the coal plant recently retired in Nevada.
LOL no. Coal plant sites are shit show to put anything around. Even garbage dumps. They tend to be in areas that are by valuable rail road lines (precludes land development most times and limits in greatly even when you can do any development since the railroad frequently has final say over sites it already owns or owns land around), have huge toxic waste issues (fly ash + toxic metal seepages into ground water), and a GW solar plant would be damn land intensive to install too on top of all that so land costs would probably sink the deal.

Large scale solar, and when you're talking about GW or even more as Musk is, HAS to be in areas where the land is damn near free, if not given away entirely with a subsidy, otherwise its just too expensive to do.
 
700-2200+ MWatts of generation capacity for a single nuclear plant. There is no other source that is cheaper and environmentally friendly in the long run, especially for the physical footprint.

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the windswept SoCal Sand and sunblasted Arizona rocks?!

I mean, really, they're not building these things in Manhattan. Cost of land is <1% of the installation costs for either energy source.

What REALLY matters? Construction time. Wind turbines and solar plants can start producing power and paying back construction bonds within months and are at full capacity in a couple of years. Natural gas can even be built within 6 months. Reactors take the better part of a decade to build if they're on schedule (and they usually aren't).

Every year is a 5% cost disadvantage against nuclear power. THAT is what matters. THAT is why no one is building privately funded nukes. THAT is why 100% federal backstops are required, because that's the only way to reduce the cost of capital to something remotely close to profitable. And that doesn't take into account running costs. Exelon, the #1 operator of nukes in America, has warned that single reactor units are borderline too expensive in today's market. It took a $200M per year subsidy to keep the Clinton, IL (opened in 1987 and one of the newest reactors in the country) and Quad Cities plants online.

http://www.sj-r.com/news/20170128/new-life-for-clinton-station-after-legislative-fight?start=2

Clinton NGS wouldn't have even been on the chopping block if it had been built to its original 2-reactor plan (there's better economies of scale when operating co-located reactors). But the problem is that Clinton 1 cost 4.5 billion goddamn dollars on a $400M budget.
 
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There is tons of "useless" land that doesn't have any sort of endangered animal living there in desert areas of the US and 100sq mi is nothing compared to how much "useless" land there is in the US.

Actually, no, there is not. I'm in the oil and gas business and we drill wells in some of the most remote desert shitholes in the US. There are endangered or protected lizards, clams, chickens, beetles, moths, shrubs, places where animals MIGHT want to live sometime, all sorts of ludicrous stuff. Animals that have vibrant populations with hunting seasons a couple hundred miles away because those same animals that struggle to live in the damned desert actually have some food and water elsewhere. That does not prevent restrictions on whether or not you can do operations at night, lest you disturb the chickens fucking.

You will ABSOLUTELY struggle to find 100 acres of contiguous and stable land that some hippie tree hugger won't throw a temper tantrum over habitat loss for SOMETHING.
 
You will ABSOLUTELY struggle to find 100 acres of contiguous and stable land that some hippie tree hugger won't throw a temper tantrum over habitat loss for SOMETHING.
Nah this is BS, the contiguous part isn't even a requirement. A solar plant doesn't need contiguous land at all. If you're in the oil n' gas biz it might seem so to you, but you guys are drilling all over hell and gone to find nat. gas or oil or shale. That won't be necessary for even a gigantic solar energy field like Musk is talking about and there are already broad exemptions and plans in place for solar use that won't apply to you or what you do.

They've already set aside ~400,000 acres of land for renewables under the Desert Renewable Energy Plan, and this is just in 1 state (CA) and that was back in 2016. I think they've already allocated more land by now. They're going to have millions of acres set aside gradually over the next decade or 2 on top of that. And the plan is generally lauded by environmentalists. It has at least a few large enivro groups supporting it and those are the sorts of groups that would be necessary to bring a lawsuit to stop it.
 
Actually, no, there is not. I'm in the oil and gas business and we drill wells in some of the most remote desert shitholes in the US. There are endangered or protected lizards, clams, chickens, beetles, moths, shrubs, places where animals MIGHT want to live sometime, all sorts of ludicrous stuff. Animals that have vibrant populations with hunting seasons a couple hundred miles away because those same animals that struggle to live in the damned desert actually have some food and water elsewhere. That does not prevent restrictions on whether or not you can do operations at night, lest you disturb the chickens fucking.

You will ABSOLUTELY struggle to find 100 acres of contiguous and stable land that some hippie tree hugger won't throw a temper tantrum over habitat loss for SOMETHING.

...........tesla is taking about 100 square miles of land. If 100 acres is a problem, imagine 100 square miles.
 
We just need to do it, and the ONLY thing stopping us is science illiterate individuals thinking it can't be done, big oil interest whose greed makes them not want to lose their special privilege, and political deadlock that makes agreeing on something as simple as paying for a child's education nearly impossible to pass.

You forgot the truck loads of other peoples money.
 
Won't somebody PLEASE think of the windswept SoCal Sand and sunblasted Arizona rocks?!

I mean, really, they're not building these things in Manhattan. Cost of land is <1% of the installation costs for either energy source.

What REALLY matters? Construction time. Wind turbines and solar plants can start producing power and paying back construction bonds within months and are at full capacity in a couple of years. Natural gas can even be built within 6 months. Reactors take the better part of a decade to build if they're on schedule (and they usually aren't).

Every year is a 5% cost disadvantage against nuclear power. THAT is what matters. THAT is why no one is building privately funded nukes. THAT is why 100% federal backstops are required, because that's the only way to reduce the cost of capital to something remotely close to profitable. And that doesn't take into account running costs. Exelon, the #1 operator of nukes in America, has warned that single reactor units are borderline too expensive in today's market. It took a $200M per year subsidy to keep the Clinton, IL (opened in 1987 and one of the newest reactors in the country) and Quad Cities plants online.

http://www.sj-r.com/news/20170128/new-life-for-clinton-station-after-legislative-fight?start=2

Clinton NGS wouldn't have even been on the chopping block if it had been built to its original 2-reactor plan (there's better economies of scale when operating co-located reactors). But the problem is that Clinton 1 cost 4.5 billion goddamn dollars on a $400M budget.

Wind costs more to manufacture, transport, buy/commandeer vast amounts of land, construct, interconnect, and maintain than they'll ever produce. The ONLY reason wind is getting built is because of the billions of taxpayer funded subsidies. Our power infrastructure and resultant massively reduced CO2 and CFC emissions would be in a much better place if all that money was given to nuke plants.
 
I don't really care about the opinions in this thread but if it solves our energy problem and gets us off of coal I'm 100% for it.
 
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Are there not already areas where you can sell electricity back to the power companies?

The vast majority of power companies will buy the power back. Whether it's in the form of a credit or actual cash back (usually at half price for both) is where the difference lies. The key when putting solar on your house is to aim just below your yearly average usage to maximize return.
 
Wind costs more to manufacture, transport, buy/commandeer vast amounts of land, construct, interconnect, and maintain than they'll ever produce. The ONLY reason wind is getting built is because of the billions of taxpayer funded subsidies. Our power infrastructure and resultant massively reduced CO2 and CFC emissions would be in a much better place if all that money was given to nuke plants.

Can you give a citation for your claims? My research says otherwise:

solar-energy-costs-wind-energy-costs-LCOE-Lazard.png


https://www.lazard.com/media/438038/levelized-cost-of-energy-v100.pdf
 
...........tesla is taking about 100 square miles of land. If 100 acres is a problem, imagine 100 square miles.
He probably got his units of measure mixed up but either way its not a issue. CA alone has already set aside nearly enough land for solar use to power the entire US and they're going to set aside even more over the next couple of decades at least.

If several other states did the same across the US, and if even only half of that land was used for solar energy, you'd have a massively overbuilt amount of redundancy, to the point where it'd almost be a waste of money in the short term, to deal with any and all weather, power storage, or transmission issues.

Right now the biggest issue is power storage costs and transmission costs/losses since they have to be built on land that is cheap enough to make it financially viable which means land that is "useless" to other development and so is normally far away from everything. The panel costs by themselves have already dropped low enough that stuff like the inverters and mounts cost as much or more to install. Massive flow batteries (like the vanadium salts based tech that was linked earlier in the thread) and saltwater/MO batteries though are coming down in price enough to make the storage issue a feasible one.

Really the easiest way to deal with the power transmission issue would be to just build several dozen smaller (say 3-10sq mi) solar PVC sites across the US nearer to populated regions and industry where the power is really needed instead of just 1 big one in a single spot of the US. Its still probably too expensive to do this right now without major govt. subsidies but the solar PVC panel costs and battery costs are going to keep dropping by a fair amount for at least the next decade so its not at all as outlandish of a idea as it once seemed.
 
He's also failing to note the following:

Focused sun rays heating a fluid medium to steam turbines is vastly more efficient and lower maintenance without the need for rare earth elements. (For which there aren't enough for 100 square miles of panels)

Boiling the entire power grid to the sunniest part of American sounds great until a freak storm , or a enemy nation state, or terrorist hits it.

Nice snake oil pitch though.
Well, yeah, but he can't lobby for a trillion tax dollars to buy his batteries with that kind of attitude.
 
Well, yeah, but he can't lobby for a trillion tax dollars to buy his batteries with that kind of attitude.
He doesn't have to, his battery plant has already been paid for and built. And he doesn't even need to build another one either. Any sort of large nation-scale infrastructure grade battery grid would be built over a period of years and scaled up gradually as other currently existing power plants would be shut down as needed.

I don't particularly like Musk much, he is almost as notorious of a dick to his employees as Jobs was and he tends not to pay his factory workers very well at all on top of that, but broadly speaking there is nothing wrong in principal with what he is proposing.
 
His calculations base it around the availability of sun. Hence why he picked a southern desert area of the USA which has more stable areas of sunlight and less cloudy days.

But I could be wrong. Idiots like me apparently don't know how to read :D
Well actually you can read very well what you want to read. You wanted to read that solar is stupid. And that is exactly what you read into it.

It's still a sales pitch for solar. So yes in areas with less sunlight and worse angles you will need to compensate by adding more area. I don't think he calculated with transport losses either, that doesn't mean solar is a bad idea. This is the same shit logic as climate change deniers use. "THERE IS NO AGREEMENT ABOUT THE EXACT AMOUNT OF WARMING THEREFORE THERE IS NO WARMING!"

You only have to slightly change it: "THERE IS NO 100% SUNLIGHT EVERYWHERE THEREFORE SOLAR IS COMPLETELY USELESS!"
 
Can you give a citation for your claims? My research says otherwise: (insert Lazard stuff here)

Wind is OK price-wise in some areas compared to other wasteful boondoggles like residential solar, but nothing like what Lazard claims in their annual brochures. Amongst other issues, the capacity factors used are not realistic and their brochure doesn't include the cost of excess dispatchable investment tnecessary to support non-dispatchable power. Buffett wasn't joking when he said the only reason he builds wind farms is for the tax credits.

Also, EIA flat out says "don't use LCOE to compare cross-technology, it's dumb". That may not be an exact quote :)
 
He doesn't have to, his battery plant has already been paid for and built. And he doesn't even need to build another one either. Any sort of large nation-scale infrastructure grade battery grid would be built over a period of years and scaled up gradually as other currently existing power plants would be shut down as needed.


I built an industrial-scale battery plant. I could 1) convince a bunch of governors to invest taxpayer dollars in power generation that happens to require gobs of industrial-scale battery storage or 2) be a dumbass and not do that.

Musk is pitching this because he wants to sell batteries to subsidized energy programs. He's a career corporate welfare whore.
 
I built an industrial-scale battery plant...
Or 3)sell the batteries from the plant you've already got built for handsome profits. That works too right?

He's a career corporate welfare whore.
He is. But he can be a corporate welfare whore and still be right about this.

I too wish for a simple world where the people that are bad and stupid only do bad and stupid things so that it'd be easier to point out how awful they are and get them put away appropiately. After all everyone loves to hate a Snidely Whiplash type villain. But the world isn't like that at all. Its complex and frustrating and weird and that means that sometimes bad crappy people are indeed right about some stuff even when they're wrong about everything else.
 
Where are the calculations for this? I’ve seen this nonsense spewed multiple times now without any reference to their calculations.
 
Reading through the replies here I believe many need to revisit Musk's original statement.

you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,

He is not talking about 100 sq miles, he is talking about an area of 100 miles by 100 miles. A square with 100 miles on each side. 100 x 100 is 10,000 square miles. A little larger then New Jersey.

To double check I found another website that says it would only take 0.6 percent of the US covered in solar panels to power the whole country.

https://www.good.is/infographics/solar-power-all-of-america

They then go on to say that would be 11,200,000 acres. At 640 acres per sq mile this works out to 17,500.
 
Where are the calculations for this? I’ve seen this nonsense spewed multiple times now without any reference to their calculations.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-megawatts-of-power-does-America-need-per-day said:
On a per day basis that would be around 10 million megawatthours

that's 416,666 Megawatts. (10,000,000 / 24)

A solar panel generates about 10 to 13 watts per square foot. There are about 5240 feet in a mile (if I remember correctly) The rest is trivial math

But it's a trivial math problem. It doesn't take into account a myriad of issues. PVC panels arent a perfect solution as they are significantly less efficient and Mr Musk calculations are based on the most efficient cells without taking into account % up time and % degredation over time. He also fails to take into account that nasty desert sands have a tendency to severely damage that nice perfect glass of those solar panels reducing their efficiency, much in the same way the headlights on your car get foggy and degrade in brightness (Yes I realize they are plastic headlamps, but silica desert sand across glass has a similar effect) The mars landers have this problem.

I'm not saying solar can't be part of the solution. But it isn't the end all solution. That's for sure.
 
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Wait, I thought we just created 45K coal jobs? Isn't that the future? *sarcasm*
 
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