Pointing Laser At Police Helicopter Lands Kansas City Man In Prison

Megalith

Megalith

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If you’re going to screw around with a laser pointer, keep it to cats and movie screens, not aircraft. This outstanding citizen received three years in federal prison for lighting up a police helicopter, which wasn’t the smartest move due to his pre-existing criminal history. As noted in the article, the coverage of a laser expands dramatically in a cockpit, giving pilots quite the debilitating lightshow.

In the 2013 incident, Rogers pointed the laser at the helicopter three times and the pilot later reported that he suffered “eye strain” for several hours, according to prosecutors. Prosecutors asked for a 4-year prison term, arguing that Rogers was “generally aware” that pointing a laser at moving vehicle was dangerous, and he “recklessly disregarded those dangers when he intentionally and repeatedly pointed a laser at a police helicopter.” Assistant U.S. Attorney Brian Casey also noted that Rogers has an extensive prior criminal history. “Put simply, this defendant’s criminal history is horrendous,” Casey wrote in a sentencing memorandum, and he went on to say this should be factored in when determining the sentence.
 
I'm torn on this one. While I understand that pointing lasers at is dangerous and illegal, eye strain is a bit of a stretch for 3 years jail time. I am not usually one that backs criminals as they reap what they sow but this guy clearly isn't getting better from his previous jail time so sticking him in there isn't going to rehabilitate him whatsoever AND it is going to waste your tax dollars as well.

I know you have to prosecute but in the end if it doesn't do jack shit, why bother?
 
auntjemima said:
I'm torn on this one. While I understand that pointing lasers at is dangerous and illegal, eye strain is a bit of a stretch for 3 years jail time. I am not usually one that backs criminals as they reap what they sow but this guy clearly isn't getting better from his previous jail time so sticking him in there isn't going to rehabilitate him whatsoever AND it is going to waste your tax dollars as well.

I know you have to prosecute but in the end if it doesn't do jack shit, why bother?
Click to expand...

i understand the torn on this one. i don think its a reason not to prosecute him for endangering people life. but instead the prison system need to be reworked into focusing on fixing the issue rather than just punishment/containment.
but then we are back to the facts that America in general preffers to punish and do damage control rather than prevention.
 
auntjemima said:
I'm torn on this one. While I understand that pointing lasers at is dangerous and illegal, eye strain is a bit of a stretch for 3 years jail time. I am not usually one that backs criminals as they reap what they sow but this guy clearly isn't getting better from his previous jail time so sticking him in there isn't going to rehabilitate him whatsoever AND it is going to waste your tax dollars as well.

I know you have to prosecute but in the end if it doesn't do jack shit, why bother?
Click to expand...
He clearly does not learn from being punished so we should stop punishing him.
 
SvenBent said:
i understand the torn on this one. i don think its a reason not to prosecute him for endangering people life. but instead the prison system need to be reworked into focusing on fixing the issue rather than just punishment/containment.
but then we are back to the facts that America in general preffers to punish and do damage control rather than prevention.
Click to expand...

You can't fix /rehabilitate stupid.
 
alxlwson said:
How'd he get caught?
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Uh, it was a police helicopter. Besides already knowing his exact position as the pilots are trained just like beat cops to know city streets and intersections, they probably had him zoomed in at 50x on camera, FLIR camera, the works. They also may have just hovered around him having already called in a squad car who rolled up and caught him in the act.
 
DPI said:
You can't fix /rehabilitate stupid.
Click to expand...

Statisc will show otherwise.
1st world countries even have prison without walls now because its a rehabilitation center and not a medieval dungeon.

USA have a tonfuck of harder punishment for crimes and still a tonfuck og more reported crime.
1st world countries have lesser punshiment and more reeducation and social behavior learning program and way less reported crime and re-offender.
 
auntjemima said:
I'm torn on this one. While I understand that pointing lasers at is dangerous and illegal, eye strain is a bit of a stretch for 3 years jail time. I am not usually one that backs criminals as they reap what they sow but this guy clearly isn't getting better from his previous jail time so sticking him in there isn't going to rehabilitate him whatsoever AND it is going to waste your tax dollars as well.

I know you have to prosecute but in the end if it doesn't do jack shit, why bother?
Click to expand...

What's the alternative? 80th trimester abortion? Also, lasers are no laughing matter, especially outside of the visible spectrum, they can leave you longterm with blindness (obviously), glaucoma, chronic headaches. Lasers have been used in warfare to cause long-term damage to pilots.
 
auntjemima said:
I'm torn on this one. While I understand that pointing lasers at is dangerous and illegal, eye strain is a bit of a stretch for 3 years jail time. I am not usually one that backs criminals as they reap what they sow but this guy clearly isn't getting better from his previous jail time so sticking him in there isn't going to rehabilitate him whatsoever AND it is going to waste your tax dollars as well.

I know you have to prosecute but in the end if it doesn't do jack shit, why bother?
Click to expand...

Because you clearly don't understand how this works. It's not just what harm you did caused its what harm you COULD have caused with your reckless actions. If you go off the rails and decide to blow up a building but nobody died because miraculously it was empty at the time you don't just get charged with destruction of property, you could have killed many people. This guy could have caused the helicopter to crash and killed everyone inside. This is why he is punished. At the minimum now he can't do this again for 3 years. Not hard to understand people.
 
auntjemima said:
I'm torn on this one. While I understand that pointing lasers at is dangerous and illegal, eye strain is a bit of a stretch for 3 years jail time. I am not usually one that backs criminals as they reap what they sow but this guy clearly isn't getting better from his previous jail time so sticking him in there isn't going to rehabilitate him whatsoever AND it is going to waste your tax dollars as well.

I know you have to prosecute but in the end if it doesn't do jack shit, why bother?
Click to expand...

It isn't just eyestrain. Lasers shined inside the cockpit are extremely dangerous and can cause a crash. They reflect off of all of the instruments and can cause blindness that lasts for several minutes. The kind of lasers people hit planes with aren't like the little $3 red thing you use to play with your cat.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
The fucktard had a criminal record before this incident, prison time was completely justified.
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One could have a criminal record for all kinds of stupid reasons, though. I really dislike this kind of logic. He's guilty of doing that one thing, so he must guilty for all kinds of other things. Makes no sense.
 
dgz said:
One could have a criminal record for all kinds of stupid reasons, though. I really dislike this kind of logic. He's guilty of doing that one thing, so he must guilty for all kinds of other things. Makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Brian Casey also noted that Rogers has an extensive prior criminal history. "Put simply, this defendant’s criminal history is horrendous," Casey wrote in a sentencing memorandum, and he went on to say this should be factored in when determining the sentence.
Click to expand...

Prior criminal history strongly influences sentencing.

Don't want to go to prison? Don't be a fucktard.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Prior criminal history strongly influences sentencing.

Don't want to go to prison? Don't be a fucktard.
Click to expand...

I see. He put it so simply, he forgot to mention ANY of this guy's prior offenses.

Putting people in prison doesn't really fix anything. Swedes closed most of their prisons because they run out of people to put in them
 
Is there not some sort of tint/material that companies could put on the windshields that could reflect lasers? (something like a two-way mirror)
 
Is there any videos that show what a pointer lazer beam looks like when its lit up from a distance? I find it hard to believe such a small beam of light can have that kind of an effect especially the stories of pilots way up high that have been hit by these beams. I've looked up the standards of the class and wattage allowed for consumer products. It seems to me the consumer version of the beam would be defused at some point of distance.
 
Uncle said:
Is there any videos that show what a pointer lazer beam looks like when its lit up from a distance? I find it hard to believe such a small beam of light can have that kind of an effect especially the stories of pilots way up high that have been hit by these beams. I've looked up the standards of the class and wattage allowed for consumer products. It seems to me the consumer version of the beam would be defused at some point of distance.
Click to expand...

I can paint the moon with a consumer laser.
 
dgz said:
I see. He put it so simply, he forgot to mention ANY of this guy's prior offenses.

Putting people in prison doesn't really fix anything. Swedes closed most of their prisons because they run out of people to put in them
Click to expand...

The US does not have the same demographic and political situation that Sweeden has, it's a well educated, homogenous, democratic-socialist country.

I won't argue that we aren't doing enough to prevent crime in the first place, and I honestly agree that the state of our prison system is deplorable, but repeat criminals who put people's lives at risk need to be punished. This isn't a ridiculous case about a guy getting caught with weed or something like that.
 
Uncle said:
Is there any videos that show what a pointer lazer beam looks like when its lit up from a distance? I find it hard to believe such a small beam of light can have that kind of an effect especially the stories of pilots way up high that have been hit by these beams. I've looked up the standards of the class and wattage allowed for consumer products. It seems to me the consumer version of the beam would be defused at some point of distance.
Click to expand...
The reasons you and many other people cannot understand how harmful this is are two fold:
1.You don't have much understanding of the more powerful consumer lasers on the market, especially ones using using shorter wavelengths of light that don't diffuse as quickly as red light. Green and Blue lasers offer that shorter wavelength, and thus travel further before diffusing. There's a reason the old adage about red light not harming your night vision exist. Not only that, the curved surface of plexiglass acts as a magnifier.
These aren't your average $5 red laser cat toy that runs on button cell batteries.

2. You aren't a trained pilot so you don't know all the things that are going on at once when you have to worry about 3 axis of direction in a flying vehicle. Your average person only has experience with controlling 2 axis of direction at once in a car. I may have a pathetic 50 hours in a Cessna, but even I know it only takes a split second for things to go dramatically wrong. Landing a plane at night for the first time was one of the more stressful things I've ever done. Fortunately, it got much easier after I did it a few times.

For the average joe to understand this, the best comparison is driving a car at sunrise and sunset. You have a very blinding sun directly in your line of travel. Most people can simply put on sunglasses or lower a visor to keep the sun out of their eyes. YOU CAN'T do that in an aircraft at night, especially when a blinding flash of light is about the last thing you expect to happen during that time.

Here are the videos you asked for.

second-pizza-gif.gif


That "strobe effect" is because a human hand usually isn't steady enough to hold something so precise in one spot on a moving target at that distance.

On the video below, watch especially at 50 seconds. That's a landing sequence. Notice the green flashes as the runway comes ever closer. Pilots have to be able to see the lines and various lights on the runway to judge direction and how fast they are going. It's not always about reading numbers on a screen, there's a lot of "feel" to it that is derived from other stimuli.




Here's a few more examples.

 
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CaptNumbNutz said:
The reasons you and many other people cannot understand how harmful this is are two fold:
1.You don't have much understanding of the more powerful consumer lasers on the market, especially ones using using shorter wavelengths of light that don't diffuse as quickly as red light. Green and Blue lasers offer that shorter wavelength, and thus travel further before diffusing. There's a reason the old adage about red light not harming your night vision exist. Not only that, the curved surface of plexiglass acts as a magnifier.
These aren't your average $5 red laser cat toy that runs on button cell batteries.

2. You aren't a trained pilot so you don't know all the things that are going on at once when you have to worry about 3 axis of direction in a flying vehicle. Your average person only has experience with controlling 2 axis of direction at once in a car. I may have a pathetic 50 hours in a Cessna, but even I know it only takes a split second for things to go dramatically wrong. Landing a plane at night for the first time was one of the more stressful things I've ever done. Fortunately, it got much easier after I did it a few times.

For the average joe to understand this, the best comparison is driving a car at sunrise and sunset. You have a very blinding sun directly in your line of travel. Most people can simply put on sunglasses or lower a visor to keep the sun out of their eyes. YOU CAN'T do that in an aircraft at night, especially when a blinding flash of light is about the last thing you expect to happen during that time.


That "strobe effect" is because a human hand usually isn't steady enough to hold something so precise in one spot on a moving target at that distance.

On the video below, watch especially at 50 seconds. That's a landing sequence. Notice the green flashes as the runway comes ever closer. Pilots have to be able to see the lines and various lights on the runway to judge direction and how fast they are going. It's not always about reading numbers on a screen, there's a lot of "feel" to it that is derived from other stimuli.


Click to expand...



Wow that really is an eye opener. People are idiots if they do these things. This guy was lucky to only get three years.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
The reasons you and many other people cannot understand how harmful this is are two fold:
1.You don't have much understanding of the more powerful consumer lasers on the market, especially ones using using shorter wavelengths of light that don't diffuse as quickly as red light. Green and Blue lasers offer that shorter wavelength, and thus travel further before diffusing. There's a reason the old adage about red light not harming your night vision exist. Not only that, the curved surface of plexiglass acts as a magnifier.
These aren't your average $5 red laser cat toy that runs on button cell batteries.

2. You aren't a trained pilot so you don't know all the things that are going on at once when you have to worry about 3 axis of direction in a flying vehicle. Your average person only has experience with controlling 2 axis of direction at once in a car. I may have a pathetic 50 hours in a Cessna, but even I know it only takes a split second for things to go dramatically wrong. Landing a plane at night for the first time was one of the more stressful things I've ever done. Fortunately, it got much easier after I did it a few times.

For the average joe to understand this, the best comparison is driving a car at sunrise and sunset. You have a very blinding sun directly in your line of travel. Most people can simply put on sunglasses or lower a visor to keep the sun out of their eyes. YOU CAN'T do that in an aircraft at night, especially when a blinding flash of light is about the last thing you expect to happen during that time.

Here are the videos you asked for.

second-pizza-gif.gif


That "strobe effect" is because a human hand usually isn't steady enough to hold something so precise in one spot on a moving target at that distance.

On the video below, watch especially at 50 seconds. That's a landing sequence. Notice the green flashes as the runway comes ever closer. Pilots have to be able to see the lines and various lights on the runway to judge direction and how fast they are going. It's not always about reading numbers on a screen, there's a lot of "feel" to it that is derived from other stimuli.




Here's a few more examples.

Click to expand...

Thankyou very much for your time and effort.
 
auntjemima said:
I'm torn on this one. While I understand that pointing lasers at is dangerous and illegal, eye strain is a bit of a stretch for 3 years jail time.
Click to expand...

Consider it attempted murder. What if he had shone the laser into the eyes of a motorist and that driver had crashed and killed people? It's exactly the same.

Read this thread for the pilots' perspectives.
 
Quartz-1 said:
Consider it attempted murder. What if he had shone the laser into the eyes of a motorist and that driver had crashed and killed people? It's exactly the same.

Read this thread for the pilots' perspectives.
Click to expand...

Let's say I throw a banana peel on the road and some unsuspecting go kart driver hits it and spins out and dies.

Attempted murder?

See how stupid that sounds?
 
auntjemima said:
Let's say I throw a banana peel on the road and some unsuspecting go kart driver hits it and spins out and dies.

Attempted murder?

See how stupid that sounds?
Click to expand...
Wasn't there a movie where the person says "Stupid is as stupid does."
 
Honestly I feel that irresponsible shit like this deserves harsher sentencing than most non-violent drug crime. Our priorities are all messed up when it comes to sentencing.

Willfully endangering lives is a bit more serious than growing some weed plants in your backyard.
 
This is an offense punishable by a long term in jail, period. Doing this type of activity has nothing positive about it and has everything negative and there is no logical reason to do it, period, ever, PERIOD.

I'd say throw the fucking book at this dumbass after hitting him with a few laser bursts to the eyes so a) he'll be blinded like the pilot(s) were and b) because he's blinded he won't see the book coming to smack a small level of sense in him then finally c) he can stumble his way to the prison transport vehicle (with some falls along the way, hopefully) and head out for his new highly restricted life.

I got no truck wiith such actions towards such stupid people, we don't need them in our society and I don't honestly want to see 'em put up on The Gray-Bar Hotel living off the benefits of society either, to be perfectly honest. It wasn't a mistake, it wasn't an accident, this was done with intent from start to finish and prison time should be at least a few years minimum.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...
 
I was caught just right by a Green laser pen once just driving in a car. Extremely disorientating experience. at least 2-3 seconds of full on "Am I being abducted by aliens?", and I'm not even that guy. Those videos are real, It can fill the cab with light.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
1.You don't have much understanding of the more powerful consumer lasers on the market, especially ones using using shorter wavelengths of light that don't diffuse as quickly as red light. Green and Blue lasers offer that shorter wavelength, and thus travel further before diffusing. There's a reason the old adage about red light not harming your night vision exist.
Click to expand...

First, I do have experience with higher power (1W blue in my case) lasers. I use it for heat shrinking in areas where the heat necessary would be a problem. With proper eye protection and environmental controls (so people can't walk in on me using it and get blinded.

I just have to correct you on a few points. Blue lasers (the most common HIGH (1W+) power lasers now use a solid state direct blue chip. They are rectangular and are near impossible to get a strong beam out of for any prolonged distance. Blue light is by far the worst example to use for your point, it is defaced by just about anything (fog or high humidity make them useless at distance). Green lasers aren't too bad for diffraction but are still sub-par compared to red for convergence and are the most expensive for high power between the three. Blue and UV light is only good for things like Blu-ray because it can be focused tightly, but not for very far.

As far as night vision goes, it works for red green or blue (The newer AF heavy aircraft are going to more of a cyan color lighting after making the switch to LED lighting). Red was used because it was the only practical light you could filter from incandescent bulbs, but studies have shown that prolonged exposure to red lighting (like for night time aviation) has caused chronic migraines in air crews.


As far as this guy though.... Put him under the prison for all I care.
 
auntjemima said:
I'm torn on this one. While I understand that pointing lasers at is dangerous and illegal, eye strain is a bit of a stretch for 3 years jail time. I am not usually one that backs criminals as they reap what they sow but this guy clearly isn't getting better from his previous jail time so sticking him in there isn't going to rehabilitate him whatsoever AND it is going to waste your tax dollars as well.

I know you have to prosecute but in the end if it doesn't do jack shit, why bother?
Click to expand...

I'm a commercial pilot. Big planes, international. (Tossing that out so you understand I'm not a keyboard warrior or a weekend flyer.) Having be lased myself several times, the incidence of these types of actions are on the increase. Do they cause visual damage or crashes every time? Of course not. But they do so...sometimes. If you get lased at the wrong time, you will crash. At cruise, no, not likely at all. I had blind spots after one lasing that lasted about 20 minutes...right in the center of my vision. I've had friends who suffered permanent retinal damage...and thereby lost their ability to fly. They lost their jobs. Pretty harmless, huh? The pilot of the Asiana 777 which crashed short at SFO reported a bright flash on short final. Another aircraft landing on that same runway reported a lasing event there...about 2 hours later. So, did a laser contribute to that crash? There's no forensic evidence left at the crime scene. Just a pilot's claim.

I'm not torn. I'd charge the asshole with attempted murder, pre-meditated, for as many people who were onboard each of the aircraft which got lased. Then I'd open him up to civil lawsuits from each of those individuals.

Lasing aircraft is not the act that any rational, law-abiding citizen would do. It should be prosecuted. I don't give a crap about rehabilitation. Jail time should punish the perpetrator. Perhaps the next guy with a laser would think twice about lighting up an aircraft.
 
PhotoBobBarker said:
First, I do have experience with higher power (1W blue in my case) lasers. I use it for heat shrinking in areas where the heat necessary would be a problem. With proper eye protection and environmental controls (so people can't walk in on me using it and get blinded.

I just have to correct you on a few points. Blue lasers (the most common HIGH (1W+) power lasers now use a solid state direct blue chip. They are rectangular and are near impossible to get a strong beam out of for any prolonged distance. Blue light is by far the worst example to use for your point, it is defaced by just about anything (fog or high humidity make them useless at distance). Green lasers aren't too bad for diffraction but are still sub-par compared to red for convergence and are the most expensive for high power between the three. Blue and UV light is only good for things like Blu-ray because it can be focused tightly, but not for very far.

As far as night vision goes, it works for red green or blue (The newer AF heavy aircraft are going to more of a cyan color lighting after making the switch to LED lighting). Red was used because it was the only practical light you could filter from incandescent bulbs, but studies have shown that prolonged exposure to red lighting (like for night time aviation) has caused chronic migraines in air crews.


As far as this guy though.... Put him under the prison for all I care.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the corrections. My statements were considering light in general in that the bigger the wavelength, the more spread out it would be and thus would be more likely to become a bigger beam over distance. I made the wrong assumptions and did not factor in a few things.
 
Stupid is as stupid does. Shine a laser at an aircraft cockpit, you go to jail. It's not rocket science.
 
auntjemima said:
Let's say I throw a banana peel on the road and some unsuspecting go kart driver hits it and spins out and dies.

Attempted murder?

See how stupid that sounds?
Click to expand...

The more correct example would be shining a very bright light out the back of a car and causing the car behind to swerve and cause a crash on the freeway. Yes, I would consider that attempted murder.
 
I have no sympathy for him. People who do this sort of thing deserve all they get !!
 
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