Microsoft Sued By Employees Who Developed PTSD After Reviewing Disturbing Content

I am trying to find a story I read about these folk on the XBox Live moderating team /Unicorn Ninja team. From what I understand the amount of crap they are subjected to as a special teams moderator is insane. Akin to those who have to sift through similar material building cases against child crimes, murders, etc.
 
Ur_Mom said:
With child porn, murder pics, bestiality, I'm sure you'd be first in line, right?

This has been an issue in the past with Google, I believe. Or some federal office. Just non-stop viewing bad pictures and videos to stop those people from exploiting kids and such.

I couldn't do it. No way. I'm too special of a snowflake.

It's a job that few could do.
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I'll admit, I wouldn't sign up for that shit. Corporate telling Soto he had to do it sux, but I quit a job a couple years ago cause my company told me I had to do another guy's job and mine cause the other guy failed to pass his CASP exam and couldn't work on the contract. Now I didn't just walk out, I found another job and dropped my notice and left. But it wasn't that hard and didn't take that long.

I guess I would be wondering just how hard did these guys try when it came to getting their company to get them some help. Did they talk to their supervisor and get nowhere and stop there? Or did they really try and walk it up the line, boss to boss, to HR, etc.
 
jpm100 said:
I wouldn't be the first in line scrubbing toilets, either, but there's miles of difference between unpleasant and PTSD inducing. Fucking pathetic this is even a discussion.
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I could scrub toilets all day. Nothing PTSD at all.

Seeing dead bodies, people being murdered, children being raped and abused.... I can see how it's cause PTSD. Or some other mental issues. It's not a few images. It's a full time job to go through them. Either you're desensitized big time, or you're going to have some issues. Whether it's just depression, anger, or up to PTSD, it depends on the person. It was in Redmond/Seattle, so expect the employees to be a little soft.
 
Derangel said:
A rotating position would not be a bad idea, as long as the people that are placed in it are properly prepared and have the proper resources to cope. MS doesn't even need to have an on-sight shrink. Just have a list of recommendations for employees and make sure all costs are covered by their insurance plans (assuming they aren't already). Mental health is as much of an issue as physical health and it's something most people are not aware of or like to belittle people with mental health issues. PTSD can lead to your death just like a work place accident could. Dead is dead, regardless of the cause. It can also cause crippling mental issues that make it impossible for a person to live a normal life. In this situation MS failed to offer reasonable protection to it's employees and it failed as an employer.
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Well I gotta disagree with MS failed to offer reasonable protection and failed as an employer. If you were in that job 5 minutes you knew what it was going to be about. I now work in a manufacturing facility with big ass tanks that could explode and kill us all in the building. Odds of that happening, not very good. Possibly, yes. And I'd somewhat counter the physical/mental argument in this way. You're not going to be a Home Depot dock worker with a serious physical condition because the demands of the job are physical in nature. Likewise, if you see some messed up stuff being posted and run off in 10 minutes then you're also probably not cut out for the job. Again, I did say a shrink might have been helpful but a suit against MS is just saying I should have found another position sooner.
 
Shotglass01 said:
Well I gotta disagree with MS failed to offer reasonable protection and failed as an employer. If you were in that job 5 minutes you knew what it was going to be about. I now work in a manufacturing facility with big ass tanks that could explode and kill us all in the building. Odds of that happening, not very good. Possibly, yes. And I'd somewhat counter the physical/mental argument in this way. You're not going to be a Home Depot dock worker with a serious physical condition because the demands of the job are physical in nature. Likewise, if you see some messed up stuff being posted and run off in 10 minutes then you're also probably not cut out for the job. Again, I did say a shrink might have been helpful but a suit against MS is just saying I should have found another position sooner.
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You chose to do that job though. These two were told to work in that position regardless of their wishes and MS polices ban them from requesting a transfer until they were there for a year and a half.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I could scrub toilets all day. Nothing PTSD at all.

Seeing dead bodies, people being murdered, children being raped and abused.... I can see how it's cause PTSD. Or some other mental issues. It's not a few images. It's a full time job to go through them. Either you're desensitized big time, or you're going to have some issues. Whether it's just depression, anger, or up to PTSD, it depends on the person. It was in Redmond/Seattle, so expect the employees to be a little soft.
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I don't know. A full time job yes, fully engaged with the activity all day .... I'm not so convinced.

Still, I wouldn't do it, and wouldn't do it if I only had to do one a day.

OK, I'm lying to myself a little. How much money would it take, how badly do I need it?

I suppose, under the right circumstances, I'd make the fucking videos myself. Don't think I would be the happy go lucky bottle of sunshine I am today...........
 
Before I went to school and became a civilian, I worked in the RPA (or UAV....or Drone...whatever you want to call it). We did a lot of strikes and saw a ton of nasty shit. Our unit had it's own shrink to help deal with potential PTSD issues. It's surprising to me that a large corporation overlooks issues like this.
 
Derangel said:
You chose to do that job though. These two were told to work in that position regardless of their wishes and MS polices ban them from requesting a transfer until they were there for a year and a half.
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And one of them stayed an additional 4 years past the time he could apply for a new position. And even a year and a half is a long time for someone to avail themselves of Monster.com, MS is not the only IT company in town. Besides, how IT skilled is a guy who's job is watching videos and looking at pics all day. Was there a peanut dispenser next to the phone for every time they called the cops or deleted an image file?
 
lcpiper said:
I guess I would be wondering just how hard did these guys try when it came to getting their company to get them some help. Did they talk to their supervisor and get nowhere and stop there? Or did they really try and walk it up the line, boss to boss, to HR, etc.
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Derangel said:
You chose to do that job though. These two were told to work in that position regardless of their wishes and MS polices ban them from requesting a transfer until they were there for a year and a half.
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Gotta go with Icpiper though on this one. Also, people do need to realize an employer is not there to make you happy. They make profit and exhaust people as a resource. I've quit more than one job when it hasn't worked out. If they knew a transfer was coming, or even if they didn't, it's up to them to make their careers. It's not the job of the employer to do that.
 
lcpiper said:
And one of them stayed an additional 4 years past the time he could apply for a new position. And even a year and a half is a long time for someone to avail themselves of Monster.com, MS is not the only IT company in town. Besides, how IT skilled is a guy who's job is watching videos and looking at pics all day. Was there a peanut dispenser next to the phone for every time they called the cops or deleted an image file?
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Without talking to the person it's impossible to know exactly why they stayed. I could come up with various excuses, but neither of us have any real clue why he chose to do what he did.
 
Grahamkracka said:
Before I went to school and became a civilian, I worked in the RPA (or UAV....or Drone...whatever you want to call it). We did a lot of strikes and saw a ton of nasty shit. Our unit had it's own shrink to help deal with potential PTSD issues. It's surprising to me that a large corporation overlooks issues like this.
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Yea well, the entire Army had more than enough shrinks on staff the last decade.

I knew a guy did the same as you, worked out near Vegas at the time. I'd say he left because he'd had enough of it. I get it, I do. I'm not saying it's nothing and I am not making "special snowflake" comments.
But what I am saying is that one of these guys was only at it a short while compared to Soto who stayed with this job for five and a half years.

Maybe Soto was made of tougher stuff. Maybe he's not such a "snowflake". Maybe with some help earlier, he might still be there doing the job. But it does bring me back to my earlier question, how hard did these guys try when it came to getting some help with this.
 
lcpiper said:
Yea well, the entire Army had more than enough shrinks on staff the last decade.

I knew a guy did the same as you, worked out near Vegas at the time. I'd say he left because he'd had enough of it. I get it, I do. I'm not saying it's nothing and I am not making "special snowflake" comments.
But what I am saying is that one of these guys was only at it a short while compared to Soto who stayed with this job for five and a half years.

Maybe Soto was made of tougher stuff. Maybe he's not such a "snowflake". Maybe with some help earlier, he might still be there doing the job. But it does bring me back to my earlier question, how hard did these guys try when it came to getting some help with this.
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Everyone is different and have different responses to different stimuli. A person that gets PTSD from looking at terrible shit may not get it from getting into a terrible car accident...while there is likely someone else that is completely opposite. It has little to do with how "hard" or "tough" you are.

As for the last part about when they went to get help...who knows. As someone that's experienced PTSD, I know the floor can just drop out from underneath you when you expect it the least. I don't think you can use the timelines between the two as a legitimate argument against them.
 
lcpiper said:
Yea well, the entire Army had more than enough shrinks on staff the last decade.

I knew a guy did the same as you, worked out near Vegas at the time. I'd say he left because he'd had enough of it. I get it, I do. I'm not saying it's nothing and I am not making "special snowflake" comments.
But what I am saying is that one of these guys was only at it a short while compared to Soto who stayed with this job for five and a half years.

Maybe Soto was made of tougher stuff. Maybe he's not such a "snowflake". Maybe with some help earlier, he might still be there doing the job. But it does bring me back to my earlier question, how hard did these guys try when it came to getting some help with this.
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I am thinking it shouldn't require much effort to get your employer to stop forcing you to look at child porn photos/videos for 8hrs a day. On the other side, if you advertise that is the responsibilities, what kind of people then apply for it?
 
If this makes it to trial, it will be very interesting how hard Microsoft works to keep the images/videos in question from being shown to the jury.

For those that said just to walk away, maybe the employees had hopes of vesting for retirement. Or had made financial commitments thinking they were safely employed. Or maybe the pay was good for their skill set.

ruffbytes said:
Actually, the most disturbing thing about this case is from the court filing.

http://courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/MicroPorn.pdf

From Section 3.6:

In 2008, Mr. Soto and others had "God like" status and could literally view any customer's communications at any time.



Wait... WUT?
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Well, their job was to determine IF a posting/communication would be pulled and/or reported to authorities. That requires "God like" spy ability. It will be a rare system that doesn't have one or more folks doing this at some level.
 
Darunion said:
I am thinking it shouldn't require much effort to get your employer to stop forcing you to look at child porn photos/videos for 8hrs a day. On the other side, if you advertise that is the responsibilities, what kind of people then apply for it?
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If you read the article then you would know that one of them claimed to be involuntarily transferred to that position and that he wasn't given details of it beforehand. Dunno about the other guy. The main problem here IMO is workers comp saying that PTSD is not an occupational disease. WTF?
 
Dead Parrot said:
Well, their job was to determine IF a posting/communication would be pulled and/or reported to authorities. That requires "God like" spy ability. It will be a rare system that doesn't have one or more folks doing this at some level.
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These guys are really upset.

There is another guy who worked there who has a collection of all the nude selfies on the planet.
 
I work in the web hosting industry (13 years), I've seen my share of the twisted shit people try and put on the internet. Gore, porn, crime scene stuff etc. The one time I stumbled onto child porn made me physically ill. I could see someone getting PTSD seeing that every day.
 
There is a lot of gore i've seen that I've rather not (the worst is probably the video PETA put out of raccoon dogs skinned alive, which gave me nightmares for about a week), and I've been lucky enough not to run into any child porn beyond parody stuff (and fully developed 17 year old's with fake IDs); but I can see where it can get into someone's head long-term. That said, you'd think after the first couple instances they'd have quit the job or aired their grievances and/or refused to continue and/or look to transfer.

I always wonder that about FBI agents and whatnot that have to look at this stuff: A. Do people get into this job to look at that kind of stuff B. Do they form some kind of fetish / attraction to it after looking at it so long?
 
lilbabycat said:
I always wonder that about FBI agents and whatnot that have to look at this stuff: A. Do people get into this job to look at that kind of stuff B. Do they form some kind of fetish / attraction to it after looking at it so long?
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Probably some sort of rotation?
 
ruffbytes said:
Actually, the most disturbing thing about this case is from the court filing.

http://courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/MicroPorn.pdf

From Section 3.6:

In 2008, Mr. Soto and others had "God like" status and could literally view any customer's communications at any time.



Wait... WUT?
Click to expand...


That is the plaintiff's Complaint for Damages, of course they are going to make something sound extreme, their going to make everything except their poor clients sound special or over the top. Even the facts as listed on this document can and frequently will be challenged. Just cause the defense says it's a fact don't make it so.

I'm a storage admin for a DoD software development center. I gots them mad "God Like" powers too mainz.
 
Darunion said:
I am thinking it shouldn't require much effort to get your employer to stop forcing you to look at child porn photos/videos for 8hrs a day. On the other side, if you advertise that is the responsibilities, what kind of people then apply for it?
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BTW, this entire Safety program of Microsoft's stems from a Federal Law that required these businesses to review their site's content and report this stuff.

If the government hadn't required it, then these jobs may not have existed, and we all would just rely on people calling the cops when they see this bad shit. So protecting people around the world from this stuff means we have to put a few people in the hot seat to look at it 40 hours a week.

This is how the government creates jobs.
 
There are sites where you can see gore. When I saw a baby mutilated, I didn't go back for a long time. Nick Berg beheading was bad. Then, car wrecks where the person is maimed and not even whole trying to talk, but it comes out as jibberish. I have only seen child porn once (one images and we were done. Didn't touch the PC again) and we turned him into the local PD.

Doing it as a job? Fuck that. I'm a pussy. I'll take that as a badge of honor.

Suing for it? They weren't forced to do it. If they went to HR and their manager to say "fuck off!" with those duties (I'm assuming they weren't hired for that position), then I can see a case. If they didn't and it's the first time they mentioned it, no way.
 
Shotglass01 said:
Well I gotta disagree with MS failed to offer reasonable protection and failed as an employer. If you were in that job 5 minutes you knew what it was going to be about. I now work in a manufacturing facility with big ass tanks that could explode and kill us all in the building. Odds of that happening, not very good. Possibly, yes. And I'd somewhat counter the physical/mental argument in this way. You're not going to be a Home Depot dock worker with a serious physical condition because the demands of the job are physical in nature. Likewise, if you see some messed up stuff being posted and run off in 10 minutes then you're also probably not cut out for the job. Again, I did say a shrink might have been helpful but a suit against MS is just saying I should have found another position sooner.
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Sorry but this is just crap. Where I work, we have tanks too and you know what else? A safety program which adheres to OH&S rules. If one of those tanks blow up, and we're found non-compliant. Our CEO can end up in jail.

So, yeah.. This is a little different than your typical job and sure, maybe these people should have gotten out a little earlier.. But common, this is Microsoft we are talking about here - they could and should have done a lot more.

Some of you guys really need to start standing up for one another, instead of siding with these greedy ass corporations..
 
Dead Parrot said:
For those that said just to walk away, maybe the employees had hopes of vesting for retirement. Or had made financial commitments thinking they were safely employed. Or maybe the pay was good for their skill set.....
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All very true, but just the same, a shitty job is a shitty job, and there is nothing that stops a guy from finding another while he's drawing a pay check for the one he is dumping. One guy was there like 2 years, if, and the other was in the job for over 5 1/2 years. I have mixed feelings on what to make of that.

I'm not moving to Washington to get on the Jury though.
 
sboucher said:
Sorry but this is just crap. Where I work, we have tanks too and you know what else? A safety program which adheres to OH&S rules. If one of those tanks blow up, and we're found non-compliant. Our CEO can end up in jail.

So, yeah.. This is a little different than your typical job and sure, maybe these people should have gotten out a little earlier.. But common, this is Microsoft we are talking about here - they could and should have done a lot more.

Some of you guys really need to start standing up for one another, instead of siding with these greedy ass corporations..
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Where are the other 20? 30? 50 employees who have worked this same job since 2008 ?
 
lcpiper said:
This is how the government creates jobs.
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I almost spit my water, well done. :)

sboucher said:
Sorry but this is just crap. Where I work, we have tanks too and you know what else? A safety program which adheres to OH&S rules. If one of those tanks blow up, and we're found non-compliant. Our CEO can end up in jail.

So, yeah.. This is a little different than your typical job and sure, maybe these people should have gotten out a little earlier.. But common, this is Microsoft we are talking about here - they could and should have done a lot more.

Some of you guys really need to start standing up for one another, instead of siding with these greedy ass corporations..
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I'm not siding with a company, I'm pointing out YOUR PERSONAL FREEDOM in finding other jobs. Exercise it. We also have OH&S rules, there again, reasonable precautions.
 
Shotglass01 said:
I almost spit my water, well done. :)



I'm not siding with a company, I'm pointing out YOUR PERSONAL FREEDOM in finding other jobs. Exercise it. We also have OH&S rules, there again, reasonable precautions.
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Except your analogy just doesn't fit here.

It's the equivalent of saying;

Hey, see that tank over there that might have enough H2S left in it to kill you. I want you to go over there and clean it. PPE? Nah, you don't need it. Don't like it? Go find another job, bum.

Vs.

Having all the proper training, and PPE, and procedures in place by the company to ensure you can do the job safely.
 
Grahamkracka said:
If you read the article then you would know that one of them claimed to be involuntarily transferred to that position and that he wasn't given details of it beforehand. Dunno about the other guy. The main problem here IMO is workers comp saying that PTSD is not an occupational disease. WTF?
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I did read the article, i think you misunderstood my stance on it. I am siding with the employee on this, I fault MS for this entirely.
 
All the tough guys on here.

I have had to review crime scene photos etc as part of my work, and let me tell you, the shit fucks with you. My work provides counseling though.
 
I remember when someone linked to Hardocp content directly without referencing this site and webmaster changed the content. Hilarious. That's the Intarweb.
Definitely should have provided couseling.
 
thejokker said:
Delicate little snowflakes...
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I don't know. Most of the people on this forum have a quarter of an idea of what the average nightmare seeker would see. If we were offered this sort of job with no support, especially psychiatric, we would all put up a pretty loud "hell no".
 
I am pretty sure Microsoft provides health insurance to their employees. Part of it would be a mental health program. If they had access to get off their own butts and go see a shrink on the company health care dime there is no real excuse.
 
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I'd think is that MS would WANT the employees to have regular checkups. I mean if they have to watch this full-time, what would that mean for MS if someone started to...enjoy their work... a little too much?

You'd think required regular mental healthcare would be bare minimum ass-covering on MS' part
 
"Bill, thus is HR. Have you ever seen a movie called A Clockwork Orange? No? Great, we're going to need you to clean out your desk in accounting and work on this exciting new team.

Henry, I hear you've been having a few problems with your new assignment. Let me just put this out there: have you ever considered smoking? It can't be that bad for you. Here's a pack, go give it a try, champ. "

While the MS statement says they "have" robust wellness plans" in place, they should have "had" that plan in place, considering they "had" a plan in place for another unit with similar type of exposure.
 
Lol, god forbid someone links them to Liveleak or bestgore.
 
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