Microsoft Sued By Employees Who Developed PTSD After Reviewing Disturbing Content

Megalith

Megalith

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I don’t get it. Isn’t this kind of like, a homicide detective suing for being subjected to too many dead bodies? The plaintiffs are arguing that Microsoft did not provide therapists and merely told them to go on walks, smoke cigs, and play video games to take their mind off of things.

Two Microsoft employees who had to watch “horrific images” of murder, child pornography and bestiality as part of their “online safety” job have sued the company after developing post-traumatic stress disorder. Henry Soto and Greg Blauert say Microsoft failed to warn them about the dangers of the job and failed to provide psychological support. They sued the company in King County Court on Dec. 30, alleging negligence, disability discrimination and violations of the Consumer Protection Act. The men were customer service workers assigned to Microsoft’s online safety program, responsible for deciding whether content should be removed or reported to law enforcement.
 
I'm perplexed as to why these two wouldn't simply quit the job that was causing them so much stress? We don't live in North Korea. No one can force you to do a job you don't want to do. You have the option to walk away.

Unless you live in the US where personal responsibility is apparently not a thing these days and/or you feel like this would be a good way to wring some money out of your employer with a lawsuit because you don't really want to work for a living.
 
All I read is a serious screw up by MS. MS has 0 excuses with as much money they have. None. I hope they lose in a spectacular fashion. Poor employees might never be the same, no matter the money.
 
Dwango said:
I'm perplexed as to why these two wouldn't simply quit the job that was causing them so much stress? We don't live in North Korea. No one can force you to do a job you don't want to do. You have the option to walk away.
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Unemployment is not the answer to everything. That is like saying if you don't like being sexually harassed at work, just quit. These people were not told about the images they would be forced to see and were not supported when it took a toll on their psyche.
 
Dwango said:
I'm perplexed as to why these two wouldn't simply quit the job that was causing them so much stress? We don't live in North Korea. No one can force you to do a job you don't want to do. You have the option to walk away.

Unless you live in the US where personal responsibility is apparently not a thing these days and/or you feel like this would be a good way to wring some money out of your employer with a lawsuit because you don't really want to work for a living.
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It's a fair complaint. They probably didn't realize the degree of shitty that would stick with them. And really, its not asking a lot or using much brain to have around. They already employ many shrinks in different capacities so they should know better. I'm actually surprised they didn't already have measures like this in place. And what kinda fucked up question is that no one forced them? It's their job and they don't grow on trees especially in this shitty work environment.
 
Woah, an online safety "class" that's given by companies that includes video of murder, child porn and bestiality?

I mean talking about it is one thing, showing videos of it is probably illegal and disturbing.
 
In this case I sort of side with the employees. MS probably should have provided a shrink or taken it more seriously than they do. Plus it sounds like the employees were given no choice in their position nor any real training or warning of what they could be forced to view. MS severely botched this one.

On the subject of detectives: PTSD is a very real and very troubling concern with police officers, especially ones put in situations where they have to constantly see the worst humanity has to offer. I'd be all for officers suing if the union and their bosses don't take PTSD seriously and offer viable outlets for officers, especially psychiatric care.
 
Queue future employees suing Microsoft after being provided a therapist because they will say that Microsoft so knowingly put them in a comprimising position that they suffer advanced ptsd.
 
Yeah, we need to modify the BS answer of "JUST QUIT" to 'FUCKING QUIT, RUIN YOUR FAMILY FINANCIALS AND MOVE NAKED TO A FUCKING MOUNTAIN AND DIE THE NEXT WINTER!'
 
Hypergreatthing said:
Woah, an online safety "class" that's given by companies that includes video of murder, child porn and bestiality?

I mean talking about it is one thing, showing videos of it is probably illegal and disturbing.
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The government does this for certain jobs where you will be exposed to this material often. It's a disgusting world but someone has to help clean it up.
 
I'm in with Dwango. I do not expect my employer to surround me in a bubble safe environment. I expect certain precautions to be in place to keep me physically safe, but that's about all I expect.

If the job no longer agrees with you, quit. I did so, took a year off, and found a better job when I came back. People cannot be afraid to take some responsibility for their own happiness and that may mean risk. The world is what you take of it not how it should conform to you.
 
Shotglass01 said:
I'm in with Dwango. I do not expect my employer to surround me in a bubble safe environment. I expect certain precautions to be in place to keep me physically safe, but that's about all I expect.

If the job no longer agrees with you, quit. I did so, took a year off, and found a better job when I came back. People cannot be afraid to take some responsibility for their own happiness and that may mean risk. The world is what you take of it not how it should conform to you.
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"Just quit" is, quite frankly, shit advice. Especially when it's at a place that pays as well as MS generally does. Depending on a person's family situation that isn't always a viable option. Without actually knowing a person and their situation all you're doing is giving shitty advice by telling them to quit.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
But this is microsoft, not the government. Being forced to use microsoft products is probably bad enough to give someone PTSD.
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Okay, that was funny...
Fun aside, that sounds like serious shit those employees suffered... I would consider them lucky they realized their mind is getting twisted.
 
Derangel said:
"Just quit" is, quite frankly, shit advice. Especially when it's at a place that pays as well as MS generally does. Depending on a person's family situation that isn't always a viable option. Without actually knowing a person and their situation all you're doing is giving shitty advice by telling them to quit.
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I do agree a shrink may have helped. But this suit should go nowhere. They had a job, if you don't like it, don't take it. If it makes you unhappy, nothing is preventing you from finding a new job. We do not need employers coddling our every human resource. It's just stupid to think that way.
 
Derangel said:
"Just quit" is, quite frankly, shit advice. Especially when it's at a place that pays as well as MS generally does. Depending on a person's family situation that isn't always a viable option. Without actually knowing a person and their situation all you're doing is giving shitty advice by telling them to quit.
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I agree 100%.. that being said I have given that advice, indirectly, ONCE.. and it was more transfer to a lesser position.. The reason I did this was because the person could not handle the position this person ascended to (for 2 years mind you).. guess what happened in the end. Yeap terminated.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
But this is microsoft, not the government. Being forced to use microsoft products is probably bad enough to give someone PTSD.
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They most likely use an official federal agency sponsored training. It's illegal to be in possession of the material outside of the FBI or prosecuting agency.
 
Shotglass01 said:
I do agree a shrink may have helped. But this suit should go nowhere. They had a job, if you don't like it, don't take it. If it makes you unhappy, nothing is preventing you from finding a new job. We do not need employers coddling our every human resource. It's just stupid to think that way.
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I don't think its about that, there was some serious harm risks. But you know I think its more clear when shit happens like this:
http://wiat.com/2016/12/14/alabama-...hed-to-death-by-robot-2-weeks-before-wedding/
Or is that acceptable too?
 
Shotglass01 said:
I do agree a shrink may have helped. But this suit should go nowhere. They had a job, if you don't like it, don't take it. If it makes you unhappy, nothing is preventing you from finding a new job. We do not need employers coddling our every human resource. It's just stupid to think that way.
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So they quit and then two other employees are subjected to the same disturbing shit and also suffer PTSD. Quitting doesn't solve the problem. And it's still shitty advice. Do you know these two people? Do you know their family, financial, and medical situation? Do you know if they're in a position to be able to quit? If not, then don't pretend you have the ability to say what they should have done. That makes you look foolish. What they're subjected to has been PROVEN to cause PTSD and other issues. MS is willfully subjecting their employees to mentally dangerous situations without providing proper protection for them. People subjected to that can become some depressed and "messed up" that they commit suicide. It's a serious problem for people that have to deal with severely disturbing things.
 
Uvaman2 said:
All I read is a serious screw up by MS. MS has 0 excuses with as much money they have. None. I hope they lose in a spectacular fashion. Poor employees might never be the same, no matter the money.
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Did CUG come back and no one told us? :sneaky:
 
Derangel said:
So they quit and then two other employees are subjected to the same disturbing shit and also suffer PTSD. Quitting doesn't solve the problem. And it's still shitty advice. Do you know these two people? Do you know their family, financial, and medical situation? Do you know if they're in a position to be able to quit? If not, then don't pretend you have the ability to say what they should have done. That makes you look foolish. What they're subjected to has been PROVEN to cause PTSD and other issues. MS is willfully subjecting their employees to mentally dangerous situations without providing proper protection for them. People subjected to that can become some depressed and "messed up" that they commit suicide. It's a serious problem for people that have to deal with severely disturbing things.
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Again, nothing stopping them from leaving. It would mean MS either has to change the nature of the job or eliminate the job and allow all of the content online. So MS rotates out people every three months and makes it a permanent temporary position such that the work gets done by people that never get too exposed.

Uvaman2 said:
I don't think its about that, there was some serious harm risks. But you know I think its more clear when shit happens like this:
Or is that acceptable too?
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Accidents do happen. Again reasonable precautions. We can't all be 100% protected and when people die on the job, it should absolutely be investigated and prevented.
 
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thesmokingman said:
It's a fair complaint. They probably didn't realize the degree of shitty that would stick with them. And really, its not asking a lot or using much brain to have around. They already employ many shrinks in different capacities so they should know better. I'm actually surprised they didn't already have measures like this in place. And what kinda fucked up question is that no one forced them? It's their job and they don't grow on trees especially in this shitty work environment.
Click to expand...


Frankly, a shrink should have been provided to them. I want to say homicide detectives are required to have regular visits to the shrink to help keep them sane and grounded. Given the potential content they are viewing, a license therapist should be a requirement of the job. Consider that these people are essentially witnessing someone's life being ruined in some fashion (if they brought up murder then in some cases literally) as part of their job. Any person with an ounce of humanity - this sort of thing would weigh on them eventually, even if they thought they could hang.

Trust me, if this were just reviewing bad fanfics, or the latest SJW rant, I'd get it. But we're talking beastiality, child porn, and murder. Maybe even some combo. No macho bullshit here; I don't care who you are - if you are perfectly fine after seeing some 5 year old boy getting sodomized or watching someone get murdered, then there's something fucking wrong with you. They should have gotten the people the damn shrink.
 
Shotglass01 said:
Again, nothing stopping them from leaving. It would mean MS either has to change the nature of the job or eliminate the job and allow all of the content online. So MS rotates out people every three months and makes it a permanent temporary position such that the work gets done by people that never get too exposed..
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A rotating position would not be a bad idea, as long as the people that are placed in it are properly prepared and have the proper resources to cope. MS doesn't even need to have an on-sight shrink. Just have a list of recommendations for employees and make sure all costs are covered by their insurance plans (assuming they aren't already). Mental health is as much of an issue as physical health and it's something most people are not aware of or like to belittle people with mental health issues. PTSD can lead to your death just like a work place accident could. Dead is dead, regardless of the cause. It can also cause crippling mental issues that make it impossible for a person to live a normal life. In this situation MS failed to offer reasonable protection to it's employees and it failed as an employer.
 
Kelby said:
Unemployment is not the answer to everything. That is like saying if you don't like being sexually harassed at work, just quit. These people were not told about the images they would be forced to see and were not supported when it took a toll on their psyche.
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Wait a second. They applied for a job with a job description that says ", responsible for deciding whether content should be removed or reported to law enforcement." And no little light bulbs came on to make them think they should question what they might be signing up to do. When they received training and guidance on what would need to be removed and what required a report to law enforcement, everything was text only with no pretty pictures as examples, and the text was misleading?

So your assessment is "These people were not told about the images they would be forced to see...." and what, there's some dudes sitting upstairs behind one-way glass and when one of these poor people jumps up screaming "WTF ! :eek:"

That's when they know it's time to call the cops?


It just don't wash out that way.

Now I'll accept that the impact of the job could have been underestimated, and I'll even accept that when these people started complaining of problems nobody was listening. But you aren't going to sell me on the idea that they didn't know what kind of shit they were going to be looking at when that was a major focus of their jobs.

At the very least, the first time one of them woke up with a bad dream from that shit and didn't question themselves as to moving on to something else. Well, these companies almost always give preferential hiring to existing employees. They could'a found something else to do and never missed a paycheck.
 
Came here to call them snowflakes. Then read the article. They were in the position for quite a bit and one of them had no choice in the job at first. All the new members I assume have a warning because that job isn't new anymore. If you're not mentally prepared for that then that job would suck and cause some issues. So maybe they aren't snowflakes.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Frankly, a shrink should have been provided to them. I want to say homicide detectives are required to have regular visits to the shrink to help keep them sane and grounded. Given the potential content they are viewing, a license therapist should be a requirement of the job. Consider that these people are essentially witnessing someone's life being ruined in some fashion (if they brought up murder then in some cases literally) as part of their job. Any person with an ounce of humanity - this sort of thing would weigh on them eventually, even if they thought they could hang.

Trust me, if this were just reviewing bad fanfics, or the latest SJW rant, I'd get it. But we're talking beastiality, child porn, and murder. Maybe even some combo. No macho bullshit here; I don't care who you are - if you are perfectly fine after seeing some 5 year old boy getting sodomized or watching someone get murdered, then there's something fucking wrong with you. They should have gotten the people the damn shrink.
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I believe the detective rule depends on state and potentially city regulations. I'm not 100% positive on that though.
 
Derangel said:
MS is willfully subjecting their employees to mentally dangerous situations without providing proper protection for them.
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Isn't that a question at this point, not a statement of fact?

Having said that, from the article "he began having nightmares and disturbing hallucinations after viewing a video of a girl being abused and killed" Why would he watch a video of a girl being abused and killed as part of his job at Microsoft. I mean, the moment he's reviewing a video and sees that a crime is being committed, why would HE keep watching? Isn't it a law enforcement problem at that point?
 
Shotglass01 said:
I'm in with Dwango. I do not expect my employer to surround me in a bubble safe environment. I expect certain precautions to be in place to keep me physically safe, but that's about all I expect.

If the job no longer agrees with you, quit. I did so, took a year off, and found a better job when I came back. People cannot be afraid to take some responsibility for their own happiness and that may mean risk. The world is what you take of it not how it should conform to you.
Click to expand...


Agreed, I was short a job, I got an offer to go work overseas, great money too. But when I was waking up to booms and sirens and floaty red orbed fireworks displays accompanied by an explosive "burrrrrpp" sound. I did question what the fuck I was doing over in a war zone. I had doubts about the water, the food, I know the shit in the air I was breathing had to be carcinogenic as hell. But for $600 a day, you can bet your ass I staid the entire contracted stretch.

Now do you think I am thinking of suing my old employer for all that shit? I could have left at any time, plenty enough did.

I thought I had an idea what I was getting into before I went. I learned what it was for a fact pretty damned fast. I stayed for the stretch. I did what I signed up to do. I don't think I have any room to complain now that it's all done.
 
Bounty said:
Isn't that a question at this point, not a statement of fact?

Having said that, from the article "he began having nightmares and disturbing hallucinations after viewing a video of a girl being abused and killed" Why would he watch a video of a girl being abused and killed as part of his job at Microsoft. I mean, the moment he's reviewing a video and sees that a crime is being committed, why would HE keep watching? Isn't it a law enforcement problem at that point?
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Your correct. As soon as it starts getting really bad all he has to do is report it, let the cops do their jobs and determine if there was a crime committed or if it would be criminal to leave it posted.


Soto says he was involuntarily transferred to the online safety team in 2008 and under Microsoft policy had to remain in the position for 1½ years before he could request a transfer....
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Soto was transferred to a new position in 2014........................
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Hmmm, 2008 + 1.5 years = 2009/2010 right? But he stayed for another 3+ years doing this horrific job that was so terrible and caused him such mental trouble?
 
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Bounty said:
Isn't that a question at this point, not a statement of fact?

Having said that, from the article "he began having nightmares and disturbing hallucinations after viewing a video of a girl being abused and killed" Why would he watch a video of a girl being abused and killed as part of his job at Microsoft. I mean, the moment he's reviewing a video and sees that a crime is being committed, why would HE keep watching? Isn't it a law enforcement problem at that point?
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Not really. There is no question that being exposed to disturbing content like that over a period of time can cause PTSD or other mental issues.

That is a good question. Maybe he only viewed enough to report it and then later found out what happened in the rest of the video? Or maybe his mind filled in the blanks? Still, a good question.
 
Wired did a really interesting article a few years ago about these gigs https://www.wired.com/2014/10/content-moderation/; many of them are off-shored because of the large burnout factor in a job that requires you to intentional view the darkest corners of depravity. Given all the perks the tech companies provide; it sounds like basic human decency to have a counselor available to someone in such a tough job. In a prior career I dealt with a lot of investigations into deaths and horrific injuries; most of the time you are able to compartmentalize; but there is always that one that bobs and weaves through your defenses and haunts you. I cannot begin to imagine how difficult it would be to view any kind of cruelty to children on a regular basis.
 
fadedlogic said:
Wired did a really interesting article a few years ago about these gigs https://www.wired.com/2014/10/content-moderation/; many of them are off-shored because of the large burnout factor in a job that requires you to intentional view the darkest corners of depravity. Given all the perks the tech companies provide; it sounds like basic human decency to have a counselor available to someone in such a tough job. In a prior career I dealt with a lot of investigations into deaths and horrific injuries; most of the time you are able to compartmentalize; but there is always that one that bobs and weaves through your defenses and haunts you. I cannot begin to imagine how difficult it would be to view any kind of cruelty to children on a regular basis.
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Considering all the support departments corporates employ, not having something basic as a counselor for a job such as this is almost negligent. You get tunnel carpel, they have doctors and phys therapists out the fucking wazoo, etc. But something this serious and MS tells them to take a smoke break, wtf?
 
thejokker said:
Delicate little snowflakes...
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With child porn, murder pics, bestiality, I'm sure you'd be first in line, right?

This has been an issue in the past with Google, I believe. Or some federal office. Just non-stop viewing bad pictures and videos to stop those people from exploiting kids and such.

I couldn't do it. No way. I'm too special of a snowflake.

It's a job that few could do.
 
Ur_Mom said:
With child porn, murder pics, bestiality, I'm sure you'd be first in line, right?

This has been an issue in the past with Google, I believe. Or some federal office. Just non-stop viewing bad pictures and videos to stop those people from exploiting kids and such.

I couldn't do it. No way. I'm too special of a snowflake.

It's a job that few could do.
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I wouldn't be the first in line scrubbing toilets, either, but there's miles of difference between unpleasant and PTSD inducing. Fucking pathetic this is even a discussion.
 
Why aren't they using their health insurance?

I don't even want to tell you the number of people around here that are likely seeing shrinks for stress management due to the highly aggressive release schedules and overtime.

I may be a bit insensitive here. I know PTSD is serious stuff. But couldn't they just quit if they realized it was getting to them?
 
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