Nenu
[H]ardened
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They do.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
From ATI to AMD back to ATI? A Journey in Futility @ [H]
- Thread starter FrgMstr
- Start date
Seems to be a lot of people are embracing what Kyle has said like it is fact. I have yet to see any one provide any proof. What will people think of this site if Kyle ends up not being totally correct when the dust settles? I am glad he is atleast willing to post his take on things and is trying to keep us all informed.
That is the difference from someone that never publishes rumors as facts, he wouldn't put his credibility on the line for a few site hits. I would like you to name one time Kyle or any of the [H] staff reported on rumors without saying they were rumors let alone false rumors?
This is why when you hear AdornedTV, Charilie, and a few others or read their articles or watch their videos you can see gaping holes where they fill in information with their thoughts, that just don't fit with anyone with experience in the field would ever tell them, because the line of thinking is false, but yet their reasoning is part of what the rumor is.......
This is why when you hear AdornedTV, Charilie, and a few others or read their articles or watch their videos you can see gaping holes where they fill in information with their thoughts, that just don't fit with anyone with experience in the field would ever tell them, because the line of thinking is false, but yet their reasoning is part of what the rumor is.......
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Dayaks
[H]F Junkie
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Great article. I've been saying for a while AMD reminds me a lot of my old dysfunctional company that I worked for over eight years. I could believe all of it.
One thing is for certain, this affirms Kyle has balls of steel. He could have waited a week or two and half of his article will be confirmed or not. In [H] fashion he went with it.
One thing is for certain, this affirms Kyle has balls of steel. He could have waited a week or two and half of his article will be confirmed or not. In [H] fashion he went with it.
infinitywulfy
Limp Gawd
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I think the main thing that makes people "embrace it as fact" is as razor1 mentioned, Kyle and the HardOCP crew have earned our respect on their reviews and fair reporting over many years. They aren't trying to start fires where there aren't any. As I mentioned in my post above I am an AMD/ATI fanboy and have not used anything but in my builds for over twenty years. I hate to see the company and its products slipping but there has been a clear lack of innovation/progress from them of late. Take the other things like cherry picking reviewers so they could get a "fair" review on products, which is blatantly not trying for a fair review, and as long as you are not a blind sheep or lemming you ought to be able to see that there are problems. To put it one way, "there is something rotten in the state of Denmark" and while we hope it will be turned about, denying it only gets us where we are or worse.
As for the other point, I would actually be happy if Kyle was wrong in this case. If they launch their new products and they are stellar I'm sure Kyle will come out and apologize for reading too much into things that didn't surface. Fanboys will take large breaths of relief and trumpet the superiority of their chosen product with pride. However seeing your join date I think you have been around and stayed around long enough to again realize that when HardOCP reports something it is because there is a good reason, not just idle speculation or rumor-mongering.
Singularity_Survivor
Limp Gawd
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I mentioned this a few pages back about being a laughing stock throughout computer forums. Yeah, there is a lot of shit coming at [H], but the more I think about it who cares. Even if Kyle ends up being right or wrong, it has brought up an engaging discussion. Nothing bad comes from debate and discussion......
One method before releasing a piece is to give to the people or entity for a response, corrections or additional information. This can head off a big mistake later if something is cleared up before publishing. Not sure if Kyle did this or got no response. Also this gives AMD like an input before publication which they can choose to address or not which when published they really can't say they didn't know anything about what was going to be said. I do know from a Manufacturing point of view that what people think on a lower level seldom even comes close to what the managers are thinking or trying to do. So even if Kyle was true to the sources, even if the sources are sincere and honest does not mean that the information is totally correct. It could have been rumours from within the company. When you have a few hundred folks working, rumours can get so rampant that some are accepted as true even though they are totally off the wall. Now on a more sensible note, splitting the graphical group on it's own does give AMD an option to sell if that is the last resort.
As for Intel buying the Radeon Group,
look at the profits gentlemen what the gpu division does and compare that to what Intel pulls in. Come on, Intel has no real need for it. Maybe take some of the engineers but to invest in something that really makes such a small amount of money is silly. Some say VR - once again is VR really pulling in the bucks now?
As for Intel buying the Radeon Group,
look at the profits gentlemen what the gpu division does and compare that to what Intel pulls in. Come on, Intel has no real need for it. Maybe take some of the engineers but to invest in something that really makes such a small amount of money is silly. Some say VR - once again is VR really pulling in the bucks now?
Dayaks
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One method before releasing a piece is to give to the people or entity for a response, corrections or additional information. This can head off a big mistake later if something is cleared up before publishing. Not sure if Kyle did this or got no response. Also this gives AMD like an input before publication which they can choose to address or not which when published they really can't say they didn't know anything about what was going to be said. I do know from a Manufacturing point of view that what people think on a lower level seldom even comes close to what the managers are thinking or trying to do. So even if Kyle was true to the sources, even if the sources are sincere and honest does not mean that the information is totally correct. It could have been rumours from within the company. When you have a few hundred folks working, rumours can get so rampant that some are accepted as true even though they are totally off the wall. Now on a more sensible note, splitting the graphical group on it's own does give AMD an option to sell if that is the last resort.
As for Intel buying the Radeon Group,
What really matters is if GCN is more efficient than Intel's iGPU. If it is and Intel can integrate it into their CPUs then it could be worth it. Imagine an Intel CPU with a good iGPU and HBM. Profits sometimes has nothing to do with acquisitions. They could just buy the IP and the engineers.
I've been meaning to try to compare Intel's GPU efficiency vs AMD but haven't gotten around to it yet.
staknhalo
Supreme [H]ardness
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Intel said that same thing about mobile chips until they were like OH FUCK WE NEED MOBILE CHIPS, WHY DON'T WE HAVE MOBILE CHIPS! They came in late to the game, and look how that turned out for them.
Not saying VR will take off - but you saying that is just silly. You miss all the shots you don't take. If you wanna get into something, you do it before it takes off. As Intel knows with mobile chips, it's supremely harder to get into something when you didn't get ahead of it.
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Singularity_Survivor
Limp Gawd
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That is a can of worms that nVidia will fight with all of their might to ever have opened. Short term no big deal, but long term the threat of a massive performing iGPU would put them out of business. Just 10-15 years ago we would all have laughed at the idea of MB's absorbing Nics and Sound cards.
EuphoricRage470
[H]ard|Gawd
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An excellent post!
That wasn't off of me, was it. A sapphire 290X Tri-X.
Back on track. This looks to be disastrous for AMD. If this article is truthful, and as it came from Kyle, I believe it is. Then it is a sad day indeed for the Company that is AMD. Where to from here I suppose...
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Kyle will just go buy one if AMD won't give him a sample, hasn't stop him before, ain't gonna stop him now.
Maybe, maybe not, currently while nVidia revenue gaming makes up a huge chunk of their revenue, they are expanding their datacenter, so who knows, 10-15 years from now, most of their revenue may come from datacenter rather than gaming.
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If it did not suck, Hard would be its greatest proponent if it offered value to the reader. And our review will do that regardless of the editorial.
Guaranteed.
Guaranteed.
limitedaccess
Supreme [H]ardness
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I think we're referring to two different issues with rebrands here.
I was more so discussing it from the perspective of people who were waiting for AMD's new series. So in this case time factors in as well. If AMD released 3xx shortly after 9xx then issues would have also been mitigated. But what ended up happening is they released 9 months after and 6 months after 290/x (and lower) prices were already cut to competitive levels. So basically people who were expectant of AMDs new series barely got anything for waiting.
I know there is running jokes about high end buyers being "screwed" on new releases (eg. the Titan X jokes post GTX 1080) but really this is something most people should want every new product generation and is really beneficial to the market as whole, the regret of having bought the previous. 3xx really didn't deliver that. The rebrands were one contributing factor. I know my reaction post 3xx was "isn't this what I could've bought for 6 months+?"
At least with Polaris even if the performance isn't here it might give more efficiency (well almost certainly) and other features to compensate. So it should be better in that aspect alone. Although there is always the Tahiti->Tonga risk where there ended up being trade offs (eg. r9 280 vs 285).
Some features will be shared with Maxwell and even Kepler.
We won't ever know for certain but I think AMD benefited from timing with the console wins. If ARM (ARMv-8 64 bit) had been ready then we would've likely seen both license IP/designs like with previous generations instead and so own the designs in house.
Daniel_Chang
[H]ard|Gawd
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You're correct in the idea that a 390/970 class product won't want the 480. Also:
- A 780 owner probably shouldn't get a 970
- A 680 owner probably shouldn't get a 770
- A 580 owner probably shouldn't get a 670
So, half of AMD's market share is from banned reviewers buying their own boards to test.
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MTDEW
Weaksauce
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LMAO
My my, the amount of circlejerk in this echo chamber is reaching critical mass. I do believe that Kyle could do an op-ed piece on the world being flat and the forum members here (the ones not banned for calling out his cover ups - oops) would sing its praises straight-faced, while rabidly attacking any detractors. Let me just say that when you reach a point where you think everyone else is crazy except you, you are probably the crazy one.
However, I wouldn't call [H] biased. To say [H] is biased would be inferring this is a legitimate media outlet. No, this is a cult of personality blog, where the the readers hang on every word spoken by Bennett with religious-like fervor. From the "gawd" titles, to the UI from the 90s, to the edgy "us versus the world posts" by the readers, this site is bathed in the angsty cringe of yesteryear's nerds. You are the tumblr for old white guys with a chip on their shoulder
Kyle, journalistic integrity isn't maintained by insulting all sides equally. It's earned and kept by not using your position in the media as a bully pulpit. The rush of posters here passionately gushing over your objectivity after you called out Nvidia for the FE was most entertaining to read, and further demonstrates how easy it is to woo the readership here. Everyone interested in tech, and following the Founder's Edition situation reaches the same conclusions. No one needed you to call a spade a spade, we all understood what Nvidia was doing from the outset. Yet this is somehow proof you have integrity?
Yes, you are the laughing-stock of the internet tech media right now, and rightly so. I will say that doubling-down on your AMD diss is going to make for some excellent drama though - I've got my popcorn ready.
You are headed for a very public self-destruction, and we've all got a front row seat.
However, I wouldn't call [H] biased. To say [H] is biased would be inferring this is a legitimate media outlet. No, this is a cult of personality blog, where the the readers hang on every word spoken by Bennett with religious-like fervor. From the "gawd" titles, to the UI from the 90s, to the edgy "us versus the world posts" by the readers, this site is bathed in the angsty cringe of yesteryear's nerds. You are the tumblr for old white guys with a chip on their shoulder
Kyle, journalistic integrity isn't maintained by insulting all sides equally. It's earned and kept by not using your position in the media as a bully pulpit. The rush of posters here passionately gushing over your objectivity after you called out Nvidia for the FE was most entertaining to read, and further demonstrates how easy it is to woo the readership here. Everyone interested in tech, and following the Founder's Edition situation reaches the same conclusions. No one needed you to call a spade a spade, we all understood what Nvidia was doing from the outset. Yet this is somehow proof you have integrity?
Yes, you are the laughing-stock of the internet tech media right now, and rightly so. I will say that doubling-down on your AMD diss is going to make for some excellent drama though - I've got my popcorn ready.
You are headed for a very public self-destruction, and we've all got a front row seat.
Nenu
[H]ardened
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Yep we have although your conclusion is premature.
I guess we wont see much of you later, and not because you have been banned.
We can feel the [H]urt.
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My my, the amount of circlejerk in this echo chamber is reaching critical mass. I do believe that Kyle could do an op-ed piece on the world being flat and the forum members here (the ones not banned for calling out his cover ups - oops) would sing its praises straight-faced, while rabidly attacking any detractors. Let me just say that when you reach a point where you think everyone else is crazy except you, you are probably the crazy one.
However, I wouldn't call [H] biased. To say [H] is biased would be inferring this is a legitimate media outlet. No, this is a cult of personality blog, where the the readers hang on every word spoken by Bennett with religious-like fervor. From the "gawd" titles, to the UI from the 90s, to the edgy "us versus the world posts" by the readers, this site is bathed in the angsty cringe of yesteryear's nerds. You are the tumblr for old white guys with a chip on their shoulder
Kyle, journalistic integrity isn't maintained by insulting all sides equally. It's earned and kept by not using your position in the media as a bully pulpit. The rush of posters here passionately gushing over your objectivity after you called out Nvidia for the FE was most entertaining to read, and further demonstrates how easy it is to woo the readership here. Everyone interested in tech, and following the Founder's Edition situation reaches the same conclusions. No one needed you to call a spade a spade, we all understood what Nvidia was doing from the outset. Yet this is somehow proof you have integrity?
Yes, you are the laughing-stock of the internet tech media right now, and rightly so. I will say that doubling-down on your AMD diss is going to make for some excellent drama though - I've got my popcorn ready.
You are headed for a very public self-destruction, and we've all got a front row seat.
is that you Roy?
griff30
Supreme [H]ardness
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After reading Anandtech forums, I think Kyle must have been caught fucking a lot of wives and moms over there.
If Intel bought ATI, then maybe AMD would rise to the top again. Any time that ATI gets mated to a company, it drops anchor.
If Intel bought ATI, then maybe AMD would rise to the top again. Any time that ATI gets mated to a company, it drops anchor.
Michaelius
Supreme [H]ardness
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I found something interesting
[pcworld] Polaris inbound: AMD teases unannounced Radeon RX 480 graphics card - Page 2
For Apple SOC difference in size was 9% for samsung 14nm vs TSMC 16nm
[pcworld] Polaris inbound: AMD teases unannounced Radeon RX 480 graphics card - Page 2
For Apple SOC difference in size was 9% for samsung 14nm vs TSMC 16nm
staknhalo
Supreme [H]ardness
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*Beep* *Beep* butthurt levels are off the chart! We've never seen butts this hurt before!
limitedaccess
Supreme [H]ardness
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Is this even being talked about in a lot of places as that poster implies?
I did a brief search and the only mass discussion (aside from here) seems to be from -
Anandtech Forums
Semiaccurate Forums
/r/Amd
Density isn't really the only important characteristic for process size though. Also while the A9 is really useful as an Apple to Apple () comparison the issue would be that actual chip design itself will be large factor and variable if you are discussing comparing completely different designs. Just in terms of density as an example compare all of AMD's TSMC 28nm chips, transistor density is not identical.
I mentioned this during that last 16nm vs 14nm esque thread but basically the public (us) really do not have enough information to actually compare them. Nor at the end is it inherently important as we are only buying the end result, how it gets there isn't all that relevant.
I did a brief search and the only mass discussion (aside from here) seems to be from -
Anandtech Forums
Semiaccurate Forums
/r/Amd
Density isn't really the only important characteristic for process size though. Also while the A9 is really useful as an Apple to Apple (
) comparison the issue would be that actual chip design itself will be large factor and variable if you are discussing comparing completely different designs. Just in terms of density as an example compare all of AMD's TSMC 28nm chips, transistor density is not identical.I mentioned this during that last 16nm vs 14nm esque thread but basically the public (us) really do not have enough information to actually compare them. Nor at the end is it inherently important as we are only buying the end result, how it gets there isn't all that relevant.
LigTasm
Supreme [H]ardness
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*Beep* *Beep* butthurt levels are off the chart! We've never seen butts this hurt before!
Nenu
[H]ardened
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lol, check your own post first.Is that the best you got? Disappointing
LigTasm
Supreme [H]ardness
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What did you post? Who are you? The guy wanted a butthurt scale and I gave him one.
TheLAWNoob
Limp Gawd
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Don't worry, he is from OCN.
In fact, all the new accounts are from either OCN or Anand
In fact, all the new accounts are from either OCN or Anand
Hornet
Supreme [H]ardness
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It's not healthy to be this emotionally invested in a company.My my, the amount of circlejerk in this echo chamber is reaching critical mass. I do believe that Kyle could do an op-ed piece on the world being flat and the forum members here (the ones not banned for calling out his cover ups - oops) would sing its praises straight-faced, while rabidly attacking any detractors. Let me just say that when you reach a point where you think everyone else is crazy except you, you are probably the crazy one.
However, I wouldn't call [H] biased. To say [H] is biased would be inferring this is a legitimate media outlet. No, this is a cult of personality blog, where the the readers hang on every word spoken by Bennett with religious-like fervor. From the "gawd" titles, to the UI from the 90s, to the edgy "us versus the world posts" by the readers, this site is bathed in the angsty cringe of yesteryear's nerds. You are the tumblr for old white guys with a chip on their shoulder
Kyle, journalistic integrity isn't maintained by insulting all sides equally. It's earned and kept by not using your position in the media as a bully pulpit. The rush of posters here passionately gushing over your objectivity after you called out Nvidia for the FE was most entertaining to read, and further demonstrates how easy it is to woo the readership here. Everyone interested in tech, and following the Founder's Edition situation reaches the same conclusions. No one needed you to call a spade a spade, we all understood what Nvidia was doing from the outset. Yet this is somehow proof you have integrity?
Yes, you are the laughing-stock of the internet tech media right now, and rightly so. I will say that doubling-down on your AMD diss is going to make for some excellent drama though - I've got my popcorn ready.
You are headed for a very public self-destruction, and we've all got a front row seat.
You clearly have not heard of the Phantom Entertainment vs Hardopc case, where Kyle stood by the article Steve wrote about that shady company. Kyle could have just complied with their request to remove the article, but Kyle stood his ground and took legal actions (with his own money) to defend the article. We all know what happened after that. [H] was justified in warning it's readers against Phantom Entertainment.
It is things like these that convinced many readers here about the integrity of this site. If you've read this site long enough, you should know that [H] don't play nice with these companies just so they can get the next review sample or get invited to another fancy launch party. If Kyle and co. is on anyone's side, it's the consumers'.
Of course, if you prefer to cheer for these companies, don't let us stop you.
DooKey
[H]F Junkie
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oxymoron
EuphoricRage470
[H]ard|Gawd
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Don't know much about OCN, but Anand has become a pretty terrible place. No wonder posters are seeking refuge at a much better forum like [H].
LigTasm
Supreme [H]ardness
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I like most of OCN, its pretty chill compared to here (especially about GPU's) with the exception of the news section. They get all riled up in there. Never been to anand.
STEM
Gawd
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I agree with you, and I believe that the VR features will be shared with Maxwell and Kepler. NVIDIA knows that VR will have slow mass market adoption, and it's in the long run it is in their best interest to support VR. I tried VR out in the 90s, and boy was it awkward, never mind the 640x480 resolution in Quake 2 on a Voodoo 1 accelerator. Pixels as big as a house (okay, maybe not that big, but still). And yes, for our younger audience, we had VR in the 90s, and then it was almost dead.
This is so true
Another thing to consider is that Intel doesn't have a good integrated GPU for console games, and NVIDIA doesn't have an x86 solution to ship along with a console GPU. So if console manufacturers used NVIDIA in their products, then a CPU needed to be sourced from somewhere else. At this point x86 is pretty damn desirable on consoles, give development costs and all that.This. And similarly, Newegg standing up to patent trolls is one of the reasons I shop there. These actions speak to the courage and integrity of the parties.
STEM
Gawd
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