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manny1222

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After doing some upgrades to both my gaming rig and my everyday rig, I'm thinking of using some leftover parts for a storage solution.
I had been looking into getting a 4 bay NAS for Raid10. I have an external hard drive but I've not been good about actually doing the back up of my files and system. After doing some research here and on YouTube, FreeNas seems like good solution to help with access and automatic backups.

Here's what I have....
Intel Core i3-2100
ASRock H61m HVS
Corsair CX430

Guess I'll be needing.....
USB thumb drive
Ram (16gigs)
HDDs (going to start with 4 x 1tb in RaidZ2)

Am I missing anything? Do I need a network card, or is the on board good enough?
 
I also wanted to run a FreeNAS box for basic home stuff.

The people on their forums vehemently oppose anything without ECC RAM, even for basic home backups.

Not sure how needed ECC RAM is for FreeNAS.

Ended up getting a Synology 4 Bay (I didn't have spare computer parts lying around then, so I would have needed to buy new anyway), and I like the media out features (streaming to Devices/Chromecast/AppleTV).
 
I'm sure ECC memory is recommended, but it's not absolutely required for it to function. The videos I saw on YouTube have them using non ECC memory with a lot older hardware.
 
As already stated, ECC is strongly recommended but not required. I will also say that if you care about the data or are using the setup for long term storage then you should seriously consider ECC.

FreeNAS is so wonderful and it keeps getting better, I've been using it since version 7 and I have yet to come across anything that's come close to unseating it from the throne. It does have its quirks but they're few and far between and manageable. Highly stable. Pretty flexible and quite versatile. Extremely light weight. Incredibly easy to use and superb documentation.
 
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I have to buy ram anyways so I could buy ECC, but that also means I would need a different cpu and motherboard, which sorta defeats the purpose of using up leftover hardware. Unless I can find a decent deal on a combo of ECC supported cpu, mobo and ram from a recent generation (no earlier than sandy bridge).
 
You don't really want to use USB as storage (it's not recommended) for the OS and your onboard Realtek card isn't going to work great. Broadcom or Intel are much more reliable in that regard, if you're going to buy one Intel NIC off eBay avoid the chinese knockoffs.
 
I will plan on getting an add on NIC then. The USB drive is actually recommended to run FreeNas out of, instead of using a CD and an optical drive (wasn't planning on adding that).
 
USB stick for OS is fine, that's what I'm doing. I've been monitoring the prices for SATA DOM and when they're more reasonable I'll switch.
 
I've been thinking about switching my Windows 8 server over to a different operating system too. It's a Z68 Asrock with a Pentium G2030 & 8GBs of ram setup in a Raid 5 with 5 3TB WD Greens. 2 of the drives have TLER enabled, the other 3 wouldn't enable. All have had their Head Parking set to 5 minutes. It works okay but I want more out of it.

I was thinking either FreeNas or Xpenology. Cant decide.
 
Phantum said:
USB stick for OS is fine, that's what I'm doing. I've been monitoring the prices for SATA DOM and when they're more reasonable I'll switch.
Click to expand...

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't even know what SATA DOM is. I'll ask Mr Google.

I know ECC is highly recommended for FreeNas, but it's looking like I'll need to spend a lot more than I intended to be able to use ECC. I was looking good when I read somewhere that some i3 support ECC on some server motherboards, but further research seem to point to Ivy bridge, not sandy bridge. So I will need a new motherboard as well as a new cpu, before even buying the ECC memory.
I think I'll take my chances with the stuff I already have. It's not going to be any worse than what I'm currently doing which is practically no backup.
 
manny1222 said:
Excuse my ignorance, but I don't even know what SATA DOM is. I'll ask Mr Google.

I know ECC is highly recommended for FreeNas, but it's looking like I'll need to spend a lot more than I intended to be able to use ECC. I was looking good when I read somewhere that some i3 support ECC on some server motherboards, but further research seem to point to Ivy bridge, not sandy bridge. So I will need a new motherboard as well as a new cpu, before even buying the ECC memory.
I think I'll take my chances with the stuff I already have. It's not going to be any worse than what I'm currently doing which is practically no backup.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's Ivy Bridge and newer... I think. I had an i3-3240 with ECC in mine before I moved to an E3-1230v2, mobo is an X9SCM-F-O and 32GB ECC. But before all that jazz I had an X7SPE-HF with 8GB non-ECC and zero issues. I'll say it's fine for testing or short term usage BUT it worries me, keeps me up at night. For mission critical data, long term storage or no backups (that one copy is all you have) I can only strongly urge you (and everyone else) to get ECC.
 
tikiman2012 said:
I've been thinking about switching my Windows 8 server over to a different operating system too. It's a Z68 Asrock with a Pentium G2030 & 8GBs of ram setup in a Raid 5 with 5 3TB WD Greens. 2 of the drives have TLER enabled, the other 3 wouldn't enable. All have had their Head Parking set to 5 minutes. It works okay but I want more out of it.

I was thinking either FreeNas or Xpenology. Cant decide.
Click to expand...

I've heard good things about the latter but haven't tried it myself. I'm all about FreeNAS. If you're able to try both then do it. If you had to pick one right now then I'd say FreeNAS but I'm kinda biased. ZFS has been known to take issue with those WD greens which is why I use Red's exclusively but I've also read about and seen setups with those drives (having been TLER'd) and it was all rock n' roll so just be aware.
 
Phantum said:
Yeah it's Ivy Bridge and newer... I think. I had an i3-3240 with ECC in mine before I moved to an E3-1230v2, mobo is an X9SCM-F-O and 32GB ECC. But before all that jazz I had an X7SPE-HF with 8GB non-ECC and zero issues. I'll say it's fine for testing or short term usage BUT it worries me, keeps me up at night. For mission critical data, long term storage or no backups (that one copy is all you have) I can only strongly urge you (and everyone else) to get ECC.
Click to expand...

That might have to wait till another time. What I never understood though is if the information is being saved on the hard drives and FreeNas runs off the ram, why does ECC matter so much? Shouldn't the worry be more about the drives? Again excuse my ignorance.
 
manny1222 said:
That might have to wait till another time. What I never understood though is if the information is being saved on the hard drives and FreeNas runs off the ram, why does ECC matter so much? Shouldn't the worry be more about the drives? Again excuse my ignorance.
Click to expand...

Its because of the heavy use of data caching in RAM and checksumming of data (and metadata) that ECC is so important. ZFS has combined many layers in the storage stack and along with the ARC (and L2ARC) it is more 'aware', if you will, and in charge of the entire process. As a result, it is heavily dependent on the means with which to store data (at all levels) to be in a correct, verifiable state. Sort of a "its greatest strength is its greatest weakness" kinda thing which also somewhat translates to 'higher entry cost'.
 
I feel like freenas is not something you just jump into lightly. Unless you are an experienced sysadmin, and unless you have experience with zfs and bsd, be prepared to spend a ton of time figuring out how to do anything.

If you enjoy that, that's fine, just be aware what you're getting into.

That said I've been using it for about three years and I love it, but it did take a very, very long time and many iterations to get it running just right.
 
Thanks for the explanation, even though I don't know if I fully get it.
So if I need to do ECC memory, what would be the cheap cpu and mobo combo to run it on comfortably? Say I get an Ivy bridge i3, can I use any 1155 mobo, or do I need a server board?
 
manny1222 said:
Thanks for the explanation, even though I don't know if I fully get it.
So if I need to do ECC memory, what would be the cheap cpu and mobo combo to run it on comfortably? Say I get an Ivy bridge i3, can I use any 1155 mobo, or do I need a server board?
Click to expand...

You can get any mobo that'll do ECC, which on the Intel platform usually means server or workstation. For 1155 the X9 series from Supermicro get a lot of praise.
 
You're absolutely better off using ZFS backups without ECC than not having regular backups at all.

The Dell T20 & Lenovo TS140 are default "cheap server" picks. Both use proprietary PSU wiring but otherwise offer a ton of value, especially when on sale. With a little patience, you can find a G3220 with 4GB ECC, no HD, no OS for $150. Add 8GB & drives to build a solid little server.

There are some good used picks, too. $200-250 should find a Sandy Xeon with 8+GB ECC & legit Win7 Pro in an HP Z210 or similar. Good choice if you want the Windows license for an ESXi all-in-one, though you'll need a $100ish HBA for that.

EDIT: I want to add that trying FreeNAS on your current hardware before spending more makes sense. Nothing wrong with learning & deciding if this is the right direction.
 
HammerSandwich said:
You're absolutely better off using ZFS backups without ECC than not having regular backups at all.
Click to expand...

True, some backups are better than no backups, but without ECC, backups on a non-zfs filesystem would probably be safer.

It depends on what you want to use freenas for, if you want to use it for your backups, I would get ECC to be safe. If you are using it to host files that are being backed up elsewhere, do whatever you want.
 
I was thinking of doing this also to use up leftover hardware. Problem is I need to buy some memory either way (using leftover hardware or buying different setup). There's almost no point buying regular ram now to buy ecc later. I'll see what cheap stuff I can find.
 
@ nanny1222
No, it's not recommended to use USB. I have no idea where that even comes from, it's doable but not recommended.
1. Introduction — FreeNAS User Guide 9.3 Table of Contents
Hardware recommendations (read this first) | FreeNAS Community

Your current hardware will be doable but be aware that you might run into issues that leads to data loss.

@ HammerSandwich
At least on the T20 it's very easy to replace the PSU, you do need an adapter for the motherboard but it's ~8$ incl shipping off Aliexpress/eBay. The PSU itself uses standard ATX form factor.
 
diizzy said:
@ nanny1222
No, it's not recommended to use USB. I have no idea where that even comes from, it's doable but not recommended.
1. Introduction — FreeNAS User Guide 9.3 Table of Contents
Hardware recommendations (read this first) | FreeNAS Community
Click to expand...
9.10 is the current stable train, but this section of the docs seems to match. Excerpting from the 9.10 version (my emphasis):
1.3.2. Compact or USB Flash
The FreeNAS® operating system is installed to at least one device that is separate from the storage disks. The device can be a USB stick, compact flash, or SSD. Technically, it can also be installed onto a hard drive, but this is discouraged as that drive will then become unavailable for data storage.
<snip>
When determining the type and size of device to install the operating system to, keep the following points in mind:
  • when using a USB stick, it is recommended to use a name brand USB stick as ZFS will quickly find errors on cheap, not well made sticks.
Click to expand...
And from the 2nd link:
They often/usually work great as long as you don't grab the cheapest USB drive you can find. Name brands that are 4GB+ are highly recommended. If you have a problem with FreeNAS not booting or some other bootup problem the first questions asked will be "what brand and size?" and you'll be "that guy" that couldn't afford to buy a good $10 USB stick.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying an SSD's not a better option, but I believe that either you're too negative about USB or the FreeNAS guys are behind on their documentation.
 
While the USB stack isn't that bad in FreeBSD it's certainly not as stable as the other storage backends. However if you don't care that much I guess it's a viable option.
 
Apart from not being standard ATX form factor it should be fine as long as Dell lists that CPU compatible with the server series.
 
diizzy said:
While the USB stack isn't that bad in FreeBSD it's certainly not as stable as the other storage backends. However if you don't care that much I guess it's a viable option.
Click to expand...

FreeNAS now supports boot mirrors with 2 usb flash drives. If one fails, the other will pickup. No need to get more expensive stuff for booting FreeNAS.

Before jumping to FreeNAS you really to do your homeworks on hardware and drives setup. I strongly suggest Z2. If one drive fails, another one might fail during the very intense resilvering. FreeNAS forums are very helpfull for that.
 
blurp
Have fun doing that over USB, it'll crash and burn horribly. Yes, there are tutorials about it and 99.98% are just because it works (in theory).

manny1222
Non standard ATX power connector at least, no idea about the rest.
 
diizzy said:
blurp
Have fun doing that over USB, it'll crash and burn horribly. Yes, there are tutorials about it and 99.98% are just because it works (in theory).

Booting from USB is the recommended way to boot FreeNAS. Having a mirror makes it safer. Nevertheless, you can backup the config file easily. So if shit happens (twice), just install FreeNAS on another USB flash drive, boot then load your config file and you're all set! So read a little before making those claims. The FreeNAS forums is great place to look.
Click to expand...
 
manny1222 said:
Or this one?

HP Workstation Z220 CMT Mini Tower Motherboard 655842-001 655581-001

This spec sheet says it will support ECC with the i3-3220
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...eVHQGnr200EcBo2gg&sig2=cgsrBkEcJyky7W_jIIw6Gg
Click to expand...
STOP! That's not correct. You have to be careful with Quickspecs for these HP workstations, because they support a wide variety of hardware. A poor combination can run fine but not offer all of the features. That's what you're seeing.

Fill a Z220 with a bunch of ECC & i3-3220, and it will run. The ECC will be disabled, however. Swap to a Xeon E3, and the ECC will begin to operate.

See Intel's ARK to verify the lack of ECC in that i3.
 
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And a public-service opinion...

I understand working on a tight budget, but buying a bunch of used parts from different vendors looks like a major hassle. Combining all these parts (plus necessary adapters) saves how much over a new, guarranteed T20 at $179? When you don't have other parts to swap if you receive a dud, the savings can evaporate in a flash.
 
diizzy said:
blurp
Have fun doing that over USB, it'll crash and burn horribly. Yes, there are tutorials about it and 99.98% are just because it works (in theory).

manny1222
Non standard ATX power connector at least, no idea about the rest.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's non standard. The connectors are 20 pin (instead of 24) and 4 pin (instead of 8). The ATX connections on the CX430 (as with most other power supplies) is 20+4 and 4+4.
 
HammerSandwich said:
And a public-service opinion...

I understand working on a tight budget, but buying a bunch of used parts from different vendors looks like a major hassle. Combining all these parts (plus necessary adapters) saves how much over a new, guarranteed T20 at $179? When you don't have other parts to swap if you receive a dud, the savings can evaporate in a flash.
Click to expand...

I'm very sorry. Forget I asked. I will delete the thread if I figure out how. I'm not sure what is up with all the negativity. Like I'm the first person to scrounge parts from ebay for a build. This all started because I have leftover parts that I wanted to use for something I thought I need, but my simple question has just been met with such negativity.

"Buying a bunch of used parts from different vendors...." - Isn't that what hardforum.com is about? Why are we all buying parts and building our own rigs and talking about it here? Why are we not all buying Dell or HP pre-built? Why is there a whole section of this forum for people asking about parts for builds and their compatibility?

I asked, and I've been heeding suggestions. You don't know my situation so don't make me feel stupid for trying to build something or use up stuff I have. I've seen videos with systems with worse hardware used for freenas.
 
manny, I began by stating that my comments were an opinion. They were not meant to make you feel stupid but to make sure you considered your options before leaping.

If you have a serious problem with what I wrote, please reread all my posts in this thread, then PM me.
 
I understand my options, and like I said in my initial post, I considered a 4 bay NAS. Yet I chose to ask pose my question. Do we routinely write people off to go buy pre-built systems in the General Hardware section when they select parts that area not compatible?
I have read yours and everyone's post and made changes to my plan accordingly.
 
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