samuelmorris
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2010
- Messages
- 5,506
I recently replaced aging hardware with Z170-based platforms in two machines as both were having issues with stability, issues which I was pretty sure were attributable to the original hardware. After a very drawn out installation period attempting to get either system to boot at all, I eventually traced the issue down to a faulty displayport cable stopping the machines from entering POST, which amusingly enough could power the graphics card and light the motherboard LEDs off the monitor without the PC's PSU even having a power cable plugged into it. With the displayport cable gone, both machines were upgraded and by and large they work. However, neither machine is much more stable than the pair they replaced, but for totally different reasons (better in one case, worse in the other).
I find myself wondering, is there any likelihood that the stability issues affecting Skylake CPUs can affect regular usage (i.e. not running Prime95), or is it a technical impossibility? I wasn't sure whether the Prime calculation was one of the only rare cases to trigger the issue, or simply a test that would prompt it (for the same reason you might run it as a stress test to examine an overclock). Neither of the two PCs in question do anything particularly out of the ordinary and are used for entirely different purposes (both software and hardware configuration). The stability problem, however, manifests itself in exactly the same way for both PCs - the PC will 'freeze' - image on the screen remains static, sound stops and loops (at about 50Hz, effectively sounding like a 50Hz square wave, a very loud one at that, in can sometimes be loud enough to make me reflexively throw my headphones off my head due to the sudden increase in volume), the PC will no longer to respond to a ping on its IP address (this is allowed normally), and even the reset button, which normally works on both PCs, will do nothing. The only fix is to either hold the power button for 5s, or turn off the PSU at the back and then re-power the machine.
(Note I have not tested sound on the file server, but all other symptoms are identical)
The gaming PC is shut down every night so typically has a maximum uptime of around 15 hours. The issue very rarely comes up at the desktop, I think I may have seen it once. The only game which seems to trigger it is Warframe, which is the game I play most often, so not a very fair test, but it must have happened maybe a dozen or so times, over the span of 2-3 months. The file server was only rebuilt at the beginning of March and is not of course used for games, but runs 24/7, and so far has had this happen three times. The PC is occasionally used as a terminal server (hence running Windows 10 rather than a server operating system), but at present the only real applications running are FileZilla Server, Backblaze, NZXT CAM and Synology DiskStation. I closed NZXT CAM immediately after boot on one occasion in case it was CAM responsible, to no avail.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, there are no application event logs of note at the time when the issue occurs, other than the usual 'previous system shutdown was unexpected' after reboot.
Is this what people would expect to see from Skylake CPUs, or is the known bug something different?
The Windows 10 installation on the file server was clean onto a reformatted disk with a new license at the time the hardware upgraded.
Previous stability issues on both machines were BSOD related, 'Memory Management' on the gaming PC which had always been triggered by its overclock but started to carry on at stock speeds, hence replacement.
'Unexpected Kernel Mode Trap' came up on the server on average every 1-2 weeks, but could sometimes happen three times in a day, usually citing ntoskrnl.exe. I was less convinced this one was hardware, but as it happened more often in warmer weather, I figured given the age of the hardware I'd replace it anyway.
Clearly the previous behaviour was preferable as a PC that automatically reboots periodically is better than one that freezes and requires manual intervention to bring back.
Current Specifications
Voyager (Gaming PC)
i5 6600
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 2400 (2x8GB)
MSI Z170 Gaming Pro
Corsair RM1000i
Gainward GTX970
Crucial M500 480GB
WD40EZRX, WD2002FAEX
Windows 8.1 Pro x64
Intrepid (File Server)
i5 6500
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 2400 (2x8GB)
Gigabyte Z170-HD3P
Corsair RM650
Adaptec 71605E
Samsung 830 128GB
WD20EARS x2, WD20EARX x2, WD30EZRX x6, WD30EFRX x2
WD40EFX x4, WD60EFRX x2
NZXT GRID+ v2
Windows 10 Pro x64
Previous Specifications
Voyager (Gaming PC)
i5 750
12GB Corsair XMS3 (2x4GB + 2x2GB)
Gigabyte P55A-UD4
Zalman ZM850-HP
Gainward GTX970
Crucial M500 480GB
WD40EZRX, WD2002FAEX
Windows 8.1 Pro x64
Intrepid (File Server)
Core 2 Q9550
4GB Corsair XMS2 Dominator 8500 (2x2GB)
Gigabyte X48-DS4
Corsair RM650
Adaptec 71605E
Intel 320 series 40GB SSD
WD20EARS x2, WD20EARX x2, WD30EZRX x6, WD30EFRX x2
WD40EFX x4, WD60EFRX x2
NZXT GRID+ v1
Windows 8.1 Pro x64
Does anyone think there is any likelihood that the known issues with Skylake CPUs could be causing this? If I'm looking at something else, I'm not entirely sure where to start.
Environmental issues can probably be ruled out as the PCs do not freeze at the same time, and there are two other older systems in the same room which are entirely unaffected by these issues (i5 3470 based, and i5 4690S based).
I will stress that the BIOS has not been updated on the MSI board as of yet - I understand that can potentially improve this issue, IF it's the cause. The Z170-HD3P BIOS was updated during the initial install issue with the displayport cable, as at the time I was unaware what the issue was.
I'm reluctant to blame hardware damage from the displayport cable incident as both systems are capable of often (but not always) running for over a week without this issue occurring. Running stress tests do not seem to provoke it.
Grateful for any advice on this one! Thanks in advance
Sam
I find myself wondering, is there any likelihood that the stability issues affecting Skylake CPUs can affect regular usage (i.e. not running Prime95), or is it a technical impossibility? I wasn't sure whether the Prime calculation was one of the only rare cases to trigger the issue, or simply a test that would prompt it (for the same reason you might run it as a stress test to examine an overclock). Neither of the two PCs in question do anything particularly out of the ordinary and are used for entirely different purposes (both software and hardware configuration). The stability problem, however, manifests itself in exactly the same way for both PCs - the PC will 'freeze' - image on the screen remains static, sound stops and loops (at about 50Hz, effectively sounding like a 50Hz square wave, a very loud one at that, in can sometimes be loud enough to make me reflexively throw my headphones off my head due to the sudden increase in volume), the PC will no longer to respond to a ping on its IP address (this is allowed normally), and even the reset button, which normally works on both PCs, will do nothing. The only fix is to either hold the power button for 5s, or turn off the PSU at the back and then re-power the machine.
(Note I have not tested sound on the file server, but all other symptoms are identical)
The gaming PC is shut down every night so typically has a maximum uptime of around 15 hours. The issue very rarely comes up at the desktop, I think I may have seen it once. The only game which seems to trigger it is Warframe, which is the game I play most often, so not a very fair test, but it must have happened maybe a dozen or so times, over the span of 2-3 months. The file server was only rebuilt at the beginning of March and is not of course used for games, but runs 24/7, and so far has had this happen three times. The PC is occasionally used as a terminal server (hence running Windows 10 rather than a server operating system), but at present the only real applications running are FileZilla Server, Backblaze, NZXT CAM and Synology DiskStation. I closed NZXT CAM immediately after boot on one occasion in case it was CAM responsible, to no avail.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, there are no application event logs of note at the time when the issue occurs, other than the usual 'previous system shutdown was unexpected' after reboot.
Is this what people would expect to see from Skylake CPUs, or is the known bug something different?
The Windows 10 installation on the file server was clean onto a reformatted disk with a new license at the time the hardware upgraded.
Previous stability issues on both machines were BSOD related, 'Memory Management' on the gaming PC which had always been triggered by its overclock but started to carry on at stock speeds, hence replacement.
'Unexpected Kernel Mode Trap' came up on the server on average every 1-2 weeks, but could sometimes happen three times in a day, usually citing ntoskrnl.exe. I was less convinced this one was hardware, but as it happened more often in warmer weather, I figured given the age of the hardware I'd replace it anyway.
Clearly the previous behaviour was preferable as a PC that automatically reboots periodically is better than one that freezes and requires manual intervention to bring back.
Current Specifications
Voyager (Gaming PC)
i5 6600
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 2400 (2x8GB)
MSI Z170 Gaming Pro
Corsair RM1000i
Gainward GTX970
Crucial M500 480GB
WD40EZRX, WD2002FAEX
Windows 8.1 Pro x64
Intrepid (File Server)
i5 6500
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 2400 (2x8GB)
Gigabyte Z170-HD3P
Corsair RM650
Adaptec 71605E
Samsung 830 128GB
WD20EARS x2, WD20EARX x2, WD30EZRX x6, WD30EFRX x2
WD40EFX x4, WD60EFRX x2
NZXT GRID+ v2
Windows 10 Pro x64
Previous Specifications
Voyager (Gaming PC)
i5 750
12GB Corsair XMS3 (2x4GB + 2x2GB)
Gigabyte P55A-UD4
Zalman ZM850-HP
Gainward GTX970
Crucial M500 480GB
WD40EZRX, WD2002FAEX
Windows 8.1 Pro x64
Intrepid (File Server)
Core 2 Q9550
4GB Corsair XMS2 Dominator 8500 (2x2GB)
Gigabyte X48-DS4
Corsair RM650
Adaptec 71605E
Intel 320 series 40GB SSD
WD20EARS x2, WD20EARX x2, WD30EZRX x6, WD30EFRX x2
WD40EFX x4, WD60EFRX x2
NZXT GRID+ v1
Windows 8.1 Pro x64
Does anyone think there is any likelihood that the known issues with Skylake CPUs could be causing this? If I'm looking at something else, I'm not entirely sure where to start.
Environmental issues can probably be ruled out as the PCs do not freeze at the same time, and there are two other older systems in the same room which are entirely unaffected by these issues (i5 3470 based, and i5 4690S based).
I will stress that the BIOS has not been updated on the MSI board as of yet - I understand that can potentially improve this issue, IF it's the cause. The Z170-HD3P BIOS was updated during the initial install issue with the displayport cable, as at the time I was unaware what the issue was.
I'm reluctant to blame hardware damage from the displayport cable incident as both systems are capable of often (but not always) running for over a week without this issue occurring. Running stress tests do not seem to provoke it.
Grateful for any advice on this one! Thanks in advance
Sam
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