Paramount Presents Its 'Evidence' Against Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Film

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Pointy ears? Check. Uniform with gold shirt? Check. Triangular medals on uniform? Check. Space dock, Starship Enterprise, Klingons? Check, check, check. Mr. Sulu, engage lawsuit drive, full speed ahead!
 
If this does come out, I will pay to see it. The new "Start Trek"...not so much, I wouldn't even waste my bandwidth to pirate it.

Start Trek was never about the action, it's not Star Wars.
 
This is such a bs lawsuits. They obtained permission prior to the Kickstarter, and now that it's gaining popularity they are suing because they aren't making money off this fan fiction.
 
Just settle already and license them and be done with it. This lawsuit is just wasting everyone's time and money.

Even the director of the new film Star Trek: Beyond is like this is BS.

Justin Lin on Twitter
 
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Sufu said:
This is such a bs lawsuits. They obtained permission prior to the Kickstarter, and now that it's gaining popularity they are suing because they aren't making money off this fan fiction.
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I thought they gave permission, but not if they were to charge for the fan movie (which they are doing?).

If it was free to distribute, then it'd be ok.

From what I've heard, anyway. I really have no idea.
 
The heart of the problem is that the people making this movie setup a production company and are paying themselves a salary out of all the Kickstarter/Indiegogo money, so they are making money off of licensed material even if they don't charge for the movie itself. Other fan projects that are allowed to continue are on a volunteer basis, so them claiming 'fair use' is at least plausible. Honestly I am surprised this movie made it this far.
 
Shmee said:
The heart of the problem is that the people making this movie setup a production company and are paying themselves a salary out of all the Kickstarter/Indiegogo money, so they are making money off of licensed material even if they don't charge for the movie itself. Other fan projects that are allowed to continue are on a volunteer basis, so them claiming 'fair use' is at least plausible. Honestly I am surprised this movie made it this far.
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Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was wrong where they were getting paid.
 
Sufu said:
This is such a bs lawsuits. They obtained permission prior to the Kickstarter, and now that it's gaining popularity they are suing because they aren't making money off this fan fiction.
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I wonder also how much this was " ahh! The fanboys and girls wanna make a movie with their cell phones and fake ears, ain't they cute! Sure, go for it"

then the trailers come out and " holy crap, that looks good, warm up the lawyers! "
 
i see a 15 million dollar lawsuit if found guilty.
Can you say bankrupt for life.

They should have moved to china and made up fake names and filmed the movie
 
Ur_Mom said:
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was wrong where they were getting paid.
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Actually it's not uncommon for projects like this to pay "something" for the time they put in. They have to pay others to film, record audio, edit, VFX shots, etc etc etc. If you actually READ the Axanar Annual Financial Report they clearly show where the money goes. The money they were "paid" was pennies compared to what a normal job would be especially in CA but they were doing this full time. The studio was PART of the original Kickstarter so that's not something that the people donating didn't realize before they donated.

The legality of all of this I guess will be decided by the court but again Axanar is not even close to the only fan film who pays it's crew, staff, actors, etc. The reason, IMO, they are being sued is because they have the most money out of all of them and it's worth it to CBS/Paramount to sue.
 
People making money is a no no when it comes to fan fic. You can write a fan fic novel but you can't self publish it on amazon and think that is ok. That pretty much sums up what these guys where doing.

It also does have to do with the quality though. Its the same reason companies sue over names that sounds almost the same. Its a delusion of the brand. There is no mistaking most fan fic projects as official. So yes the level of quality is an issue here even if these guys can prove they completely netted out and made nothing at all. When the quality gets to a point where the average consumer can't tell if its official or not, what rights owner in their right mind wouldn't sue. The fact that so many people are saying they would rather watch this over the official stuff is also party what did them in.
 
I thought the main issue was that if the film is not a for-profit endeavor it was supposedly OK to do. Yes/No?
 
ir0nw0lf said:
I thought the main issue was that if the film is not a for-profit endeavor it was supposedly OK to do. Yes/No?
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Yes and no. CBS/Paramount are within their rights to shut down any fan fiction they want. They have been fine with almost all of it for years because it has only served to improve their brand power and acts more like free advertising then anything. (anyone into fan fic was still going to movies buying books ect). This one is getting close to as good and some may argue better then the current official stuff. When plenty of customers start stating publicly that they would rather stick with this fan fic stuff then buy anything from the rights holder anymore... I think you can assume CBC/P started calling their legal teams.
 
Osirus said:
Justin Lin is the last person on Earth I want to hear an opinion about Star Trek from.
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I know most people won't agree with me, but he took Fast & Furious, a franchise that had the potential to flounder, and made it progressively better with each new movie. No, he did not direct the 2nd one which is generally regarded as being junk. But to take a franchise and make each sequel better then the last is not an easy thing to do. I find the Fast & Furious movie to really be the best car movies that has really grabbed the car culture at the time the movie is released. Even when looking at the zaniness of the 1st one, that is really what was popular at that time. Trust me, I got a lot of Import Racer (RIP), Super Street (RIP) and Sport Compact Car (RIP) magazines from that time period to know :)
 
ChadD said:
When plenty of customers start stating publicly that they would rather stick with this fan fic stuff then buy anything from the rights holder anymore... I think you can assume CBC/P started calling their legal teams.
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This is probably the biggest problem...watch the trailer for Star Trek Beyond, then watch Prelude to Axanar. I don't know about you, but I find Prelude to Axanar not only more enjoyable, but considerably more true to the legacy of Star Trek. For a fan production to do something so damned amazing, it boggles the mind.
 
the-one1 said:
If this does come out, I will pay to see it. The new "Start Trek"...not so much, I wouldn't even waste my bandwidth to pirate it.

Start Trek was never about the action, it's not Star Wars.
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I think this is one of the driving forces behind the lawsuit, the fact that Axanar is a lot more faithful then the rebooted series.
 
The issue is that they expected this to be a normal "fan film" and on the level of most fan films, a bunch of volunteer people making a fairly cheap Star Trek, nothing too serious.

However from the trailer they released and everything you can see this looks like a legit big AAA production, great writing, effects, good scale. It doesn't come off as a normal "fan film" like a bunch of Star Trek fans got together with their iphones and made a little movie, it comes off as a big Star Trek series.

With them officially releasing a new Star Trek movie AND coming out with ai new Star Trek tv show, they probably got scared that this would hurt eitiher of those and decided to then stop it from being released.

This movie was not going to be "sold," it was going to be a free movie for anyone to see. The main reason they wanted to do it was two fold , they are big Star Trek fans, and they want to show off their talents as film-makers so they can get their foot into the door.

Personally I think it was a HUGE mistake for paramount to go this direction. Since Paramount has allowed MANY fan-made Star Trek movies/series they already set a basis that fan-made films were "ok" by them, you can't allow them and then suddenly say "no, you can't do that, even though we let these other people."

Then you have the fact that MANY Star Trek fans thought this movie looked amazing and were really looking forward to it. It looks (to many people) a lot more like the classic "Star Trek" then the direction that paramount has taken it withi the recent JJ Abrams movies and things. So to stop the movie from coming out it does nothing ibut hurt the fans and their own reputation for allowing fans to make things with Star Trek.

The best thing they could have done was grant them an official license to release the movie and use it as a means to help promote both their new official movie and upcoming series.

I really hope paramount comes to their senses and drops this, because if they do not and if the court stops it from being released, it will have a huge ripple effect on fan-made films and anything related to Star Trek as well as hurt the huge fan community around it.
 
bigthoughts said:
This is more correct than you intended
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lol no doubt. I am not a fan of where they have taken trek either, its their right to mess it up anyway they see fit I guess. The Axanar people would have had a better chance of flying under the radar to if the first stop they made wasn't a CBS office pitching their production to them first. They got a no... cause obviously they would rather create dreck like Beyond. Deciding to go from the No thanks, to begging for the funds to do it anyway, I'm sure didn't sit well with whomever they met with at CBS.
 
Dear Paramount,

I am profoundly disappointed with Paramount choosing to shut down the Axanar movie.

I do not doubt there are many ways this could be licenced protecting your IP while allowing the film to go forward.

I suspect I am not the only one who has and will be directing ire and dismay in your direction.

This movie has the beginnings of a good story and depth rather then the bubble gum action flicks you have been putting out.

Thank you for your time,

*EB*
 
They aren't profiting off it.
They've let other projects go through, and projects containing actual professionals.

This is really odd.
 
Konig-Wolf said:
This is probably the biggest problem...watch the trailer for Star Trek Beyond, then watch Prelude to Axanar. I don't know about you, but I find Prelude to Axanar not only more enjoyable, but considerably more true to the legacy of Star Trek. For a fan production to do something so damned amazing, it boggles the mind.
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IMO this is not any surprise. The biggest problem with many reboots or remade series is that they don't write it for the fans primarily, they write it in a manner that will make the most money at the time. Prelude is made and written by fans for fans, the Star Trek reboot was made by and written by a studio whose main goal was to make money. While it is possible to do both usually the two methods don't mesh well together because filling seats in theaters/making money is ultimately more important for a studio. Studios are more films made by committee (ie random focus groups) so they tune the stories to fit them which generally then ruins the story for fans.
 
Technically speaking the studios can still file as non profit (even as they are compensated) as what they produce in the end they do not charge for. (In other words everyone can watch this for free via YouTube)

The actors and screen editors guild/union requires that all actors in a production be compensated. This was a mandatory to employ the actors they did. However the given crew and actors compensation is the minimum allowed. It's a rather paltry sum.

The problem here is precedent, as there are tons of other star trek fan films where there has been compensation for production, and CBS/Paramount decided not to attack them. However it is the level of production quality here is what is alarming to CBS/Paramount which serves to undermine the traditional model of "We will decide what you like (IE: That crap of a JJA Star Trek reboot), and you will pay a healthy profit for it."

So CBS/Paramount has a weak leg to stand on in terms of previous enforcement. It's akin to ask kids not to play Cowboys and Indians (and being given lemonade as compensation by others to watch) because some Hollywood exec thought of the genre 100 years ago. In this case the original star trek series is pushing 50 years. It's practically public domain to the fans as long as they don't unjustly enrich themselves in the process.
 
I am actually excited to see this movie. I've skipped pretty much all of the modern movies, TNG and reboot, except for the 2009 movie.
I hope it doesn't get canned!
 
The movie actually looks interesting,certainly better than Abrahms trash,but they did cross the line when they paid themselves huge salaries. There's just no way they can claim they haven't profited from it.
 
michael.pa2 said:
The movie actually looks interesting,certainly better than Abrahms trash,but they did cross the line when they paid themselves huge salaries. There's just no way they can claim they haven't profited from it.
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They HAVE to pay the actors and people, you can not hire any actors or people in SAG, etc without paying them a certain amount. On top of this most of them took the minimum amount required. Even other Star Trek "fan films" had to pay the people that actually worked for them to make the movie, like actors/artist, etc.
 
the-one1 said:
If this does come out, I will pay to see it. The new "Start Trek"...not so much, I wouldn't even waste my bandwidth to pirate it.

Start Trek was never about the action, it's not Star Wars.
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I was born in 88 and I never could get into Star Trek as a kid. I think it was because the first episode I watched with my dad was a terrible TOS 3rd season turd where a bunch of kids were tricked into murdering their parents by a space ghost or something.

Since seeing Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness I've watched all the films and most of TOS/TNG.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Since seeing Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness I've watched all the films and most of TOS/TNG.
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It's a shame a lot of fans really don't give DS9 a good second look. I dare say even though the first two seasons are rather slow, it is nothing short of excellent in story telling and character development. It has lots of great sub plots: Refugees, alliances, old Enemies becoming new allies, allies becoming enemies, civil wars, subterfuge, role of religion, secret Organisations and self sealing stem bolts as told by Lorn!
 
I've often wondered how CBS/Paramount manages to get away with turning a blind eye to Star Trek-based fan productions. To clarify, from what I understand, a huge burden of possessing a copyright (or maybe it's trademark [I always get the two confused]) is that you must enforce said copyright across the board, impartially. Otherwise, you run the risk of losing your monopoly on the property. This is why Disney was forced to (or said they were forced to) have those day care centers remove images of Mickey Mouse and other characters. Whether or not the non-holder is profiting is actually irrelevant, as even non-profit ventures could negatively affect the holder's income by way of direct or indirect means.

To illustrate, let's say that the people producing Axanar releases a Blu-ray of the finished film and only charges manufacturing and distribution costs (for the sake of argument, $3.00). A person walks into Wal-Mart with the intent of buying something Trek related. Mixed in with the various higher-priced CBS-issued official selections is Axanar. The customer chooses Axanar over, say, Into Darkness since it's only $3.00 versus ID's price of $15.00. Even though the company behind Axanar isn't profiting, they're still "depriving" CBS of what would have otherwise been a guaranteed sale of their legally produced content.

This is what I understood the current copyright landscape to be along with the consequences behind not prosecuting copyright violations and why the for-profit angle doesn't really enter into the equation.

That said, legalities aside, I think CBS is doing a grand job of pissing off a significant portion of the Trek fanbase. I don't think ST:B is helping matters, either, and strongly suspect the execs are a little scared that Axanar will prove to be the better film (presuming it ever gets made).
 
fleggett said:
That said, legalities aside, I think CBS is doing a grand job of pissing off a significant portion of the Trek fanbase. I don't think ST:B is helping matters, either, and strongly suspect the execs are a little scared that Axanar will prove to be the better film (presuming it ever gets made).
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It's a loose loose situation for CBS either way. If it never gets made they'll just hear "It would've been better". The only way I see them coming out of this on top if they take it on as an official project. That'd show that they care not just about profits but the fans as well. And then even if this gets revenue away from the BS movie or whatever it's called, it will still land in their pockets.
 
Elf_Boy said:
Paramount could *gasp* licence Axanar.

Solve all the problems.
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That would be the best solution. Of course the Axanar folks would have to want that. Not really sure if that's the case. I'm as big a Trekkie as there is and this is what I would want. Star Trek is almost religion to me. It represents so much of what is good and great about life and death. I hate to see this type of thing.
 
Hrrrr. I'm not sure an official acquisition would be best for the fans, though, nor the people involved in its production. Given the way Trek has been heading ever since the reboot, if Paramount took the reins, they could turn Axanar into another mindless shoot-em-up (sorry, but I HATE the Abramsverse). What you see now with the Prelude film might not resemble anything you'd get with a finished, official, blessed-by-CBS product.

I think Axanar is a direct response to the silliness of the 2009 film, ID, and now Beyond. I don't think anyone involved in the production wants CBS to touch Axanar with a 100-foot cattle prod. I suspect they would probably rather just bury it rather than have it transmogrified into something unrecognizable.
 
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