Uber Driver Refuses To Pick Up Woman in Labor

alxlwson said:
What's not rational about "My money is not your money. Earn your own money and your own way in life. If you need help and I decide to help you, then I'll do so of my own free will".

I know personal responsibility is a tough thing for most people to understand.
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Yes it is completely irrational.. Because your money is not your money not even your life is your life... I don't think you have put much thought into how much was simply gifted to you, by being so special as to be born. All the laws that make up this society good and shitty.. All the fantasy construct that is money (which is something you have the delusions of calling 'yours')
Is gifted to you, from the work of others... Fucking centuries of work, including abused slaves and rich jackasses.
Take where it should go if centuries of work was not gifted to by the second you are born..what you would have? You probably would be killed, and your mom raped, so the warlord can have more children, or some other horrible, savage shit.
Personal responsibility, what a fucking joke... The structural columns that make a society have nothing to do with isolated individual and their personal responsibility.. Stop that crock.
Society is about collective responsibility, and you have benefited greatly, including that so called money you have.
 
alxlwson said:
My insurance doubled (Cadillac plan).
I have no issues with children being taken care of.
Sorry for your sister, but the situation she got herself into is not my responsibility.
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Your sympathy for others is not required, nor was it the purpose of my example. My example, was to show that just because something is made law, does not mean that suddenly everyone will be able to follow the law. You said there was no excuse. The excuse is the realities of life in the economic system we have in place.

It sounds like you are satisfied with your financial position, and that is good. But do you truly understand what it means for YOU to be successful? Do you know what is required by others for you to be successful?

In order for 1 person to be successful, many others MUST be impoverished. There is no solution possible that would allow for EVERYONE to be successful. That is not how money works. Money creates poverty. The by-product is wealth. In order for money to get value, it must be a limited resource. If all people had money, why would it be worth anything?

Even if every single person in this country was educated and extremely hard working, there would still be poverty. There would still be janitors and ditch diggers and hamburger flippers. There would obviously be a lot more under employment as well.

I understand your attitude, and I don't blame you for justifying your lifestyle relative to others. It is what we are taught from a very young age in this country. But what you do need to understand is that for the concept of financial success to exist, the reality of financial failure MUST come first. Many people must suffer in order for the system to work. The 1%'ers or whatever you want to call them, is actually the system of money working flawlessly. Hopefully you can see what the solution is. It is not as easy as people just simply being "more determined". That's a distraction.
 
westrock2000 said:
Your sympathy for others is not required, nor was it the purpose of my example. My example, was to show that just because something is made law, does not mean that suddenly everyone will be able to follow the law. You said there was no excuse. The excuse is the realities of life in the economic system we have in place.

It sounds like you are satisfied with your financial position, and that is good. But do you truly understand what it means for YOU to be successful? Do you know what is required by others for you to be successful?

In order for 1 person to be successful, many others MUST be impoverished. There is no solution possible that would allow for EVERYONE to be successful. That is not how money works. Money creates poverty. The by-product is wealth. In order for money to get value, it must be a limited resource. If all people had money, why would it be worth anything?

Even if every single person in this country was educated and extremely hard working, there would still be poverty. There would still be janitors and ditch diggers and hamburger flippers. There would obviously be a lot more under employment as well.

I understand your attitude, and I don't blame you for justifying your lifestyle relative to others. It is what we are taught from a very young age in this country. But what you do need to understand is that for the concept of financial success to exist, the reality of financial failure MUST come first. Many people must suffer in order for the system to work. The 1%'ers or whatever you want to call them, is actually the system of money working flawlessly. Hopefully you can see what the solution is. It is not as easy as people just simply being "more determined". That's a distraction.
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Well spoken.
However, hard work, with a brain, and ambition yields results (in this country).
 
Riccochet said:
Your sister made poor life decisions and now others are responsible to pay for those decisions? I think not.

Even a HDHP covers some of the cost of PCP visits up front.
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WTF, where did I say that at all??

What I said was that she is part of the "lower class"...you know about half the country. She couldn't afford health insurance before, and she got by.....fine.

But now she is *required* by law to have health insurance. Yet, her financial situation has improved by any means since then. And she DOES NOT qualify for assistance.

And yet she is mandated to give money to a private corporation a monthly fee just because she is alive?

Who's supporting who??
 
Uvaman2 said:
Yes it is completely irrational.. Because your money is not your money not even your life is your life... I don't think you have put much thought into how much was simply gifted to you, by being so special as to be born. All the laws that make up this society good and shitty.. All the fantasy construct that is money (which is something you have the delusions of calling 'yours')
Is gifted to you, from the work of others... Fucking centuries of work, including abused slaves and rich jackasses.
Take where it should go if centuries of work was not gifted to by the second you are born..what you would have? You probably would be killed, and your mom raped, so the warlord can have more children, or some other horrible, savage shit.
Personal responsibility, what a fucking joke... The structural columns that make a society have nothing to do with isolated individual and their personal responsibility.. Stop that crock.
Society is about collective responsibility, and you have benefited greatly, including that so called money you have.
Click to expand...


It's not given to me. It's earned. People don't give me money. I earn it with blood and sweat on a daily basis. Money is the new barter. You work for money, so you can enjoy other things in life, that also require money.
Work and pay is the new bartering system. I'm sorry this concept has left you behind.
My life is my life.
However, I'm curious. If my life isn't my own, then to whom does it belong?
 
alxlwson said:
Well spoken.
However, hard work, with a brain, and ambition yields results (in this country).
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Not a guarantee.

The system is dependent on the idea that most people won't do those things. Or that other roadblocks will be in place.

But again, you are completely missing the bigger picture.
 
alxlwson said:
It's not given to me. It's earned. People don't give me money. I earn it with blood and sweat on a daily basis. Money is the new barter. You work for money, so you can enjoy other things in life, that also require money.
Work and pay is the new bartering system. I'm sorry this concept has left you behind.
My life is my life.
However, I'm curious. If my life isn't my own, then to whom does it belong?
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Which of these did you control growing up?

1. Parents
2. Housing
3. School
4. Nutrition
5. Local economy
6. National economy
7. Time in which you were born into the world
8. Crime
9. Social limitations

Which of those would have had an effect on how you grew up?
Honestly those things are getting more into the philosophical things. But the lottery of birth is an absolute reality. But what can you do really?
 
westrock2000 said:
Which of these did you control growing up?

1. Parents
2. Housing
3. School
4. Nutrition
5. Local economy
6. National economy
7. Time in which you were born into the world
8. Crime
9. Social limitations

Which of those would have had an effect on how you grew up?
Honestly those things are getting more into the philosophical things. But the lottery of birth is an absolute reality. But what can you do really?
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My life, and who I give thanks to my life are two different things. My life is mine alone, and what I choose to make of it are my decisions alone. Just because the actions of someone else may cause secondary reaction in my own life, that doesn't change ownership, per se. Something bad happens to someone, and it trickles down to me. If I do nothing and don't react to this change, then it could be argued that I'm living through someone else. However, if I react, change, and overcome, then I have kept my life in my own hands.

I can do a lot though, especially as an adult. Where my life goes as an adult is on me, and nobody else. The same goes for you.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Yes it is completely irrational.. Because your money is not your money not even your life is your life... I don't think you have put much thought into how much was simply gifted to you, by being so special as to be born. All the laws that make up this society good and shitty.. All the fantasy construct that is money (which is something you have the delusions of calling 'yours')
Is gifted to you, from the work of others... Fucking centuries of work, including abused slaves and rich jackasses.
Take where it should go if centuries of work was not gifted to by the second you are born..what you would have? You probably would be killed, and your mom raped, so the warlord can have more children, or some other horrible, savage shit.
Personal responsibility, what a fucking joke... The structural columns that make a society have nothing to do with isolated individual and their personal responsibility.. Stop that crock.
Society is about collective responsibility, and you have benefited greatly, including that so called money you have.
Click to expand...

The collective responsibility of society does not eliminate personal responsibility of the individual.

It is not my job to make sure you have food on your table, unless you're paying me to do so. Can't pay someone? Work. Now if for some reason you cannot work, then we can talk about the collective responsibility of society. However it doesn't change that I as an individual pay for my own things as well as services used by the collective known as society through taxes, and I do not see the point of bettering myself to earn more if it's just going to be handed out to someone else for doing nothing. If I choose to eat garbage and sit around like jabba the hutt doing nothing all day, it is my responsibility to pay the resulting medical expenses(since medical issues will occur for most people who do that), not someone else's.

The funny thing about this silly discussion is that it's off topic anyway. Even in a society where everyone dumps all of their money back into the government via taxes to redistribute to those who don't contribute to anything, Uber is still not a replacement for emergency medical services, no matter what philosophy about medical care you prefer.
 
When did giving bitch become such an "Emergency? Humans have given birth for thousands of years without having "hospitals" or "doctors" to do so, the way our society has made birth into something you "MUST" go to a hospital to do is absurd.
 
Fun said:
Poor driver. It looks like he was put into a situation where he's damned if he does damned if he doesn't. Now he looks like an asshole, which might hurt his income just as much as having a piss/shit/blood covered backseat.
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I wasn't there, but maybe he was being an asshole and was using this situation to his advantage, extorting big cash from them, counting on their desperation. Perhaps he was just smart enough to not make it obvious and instead, "leave the door open" to the opportunity.
 
Stiler said:
When did giving bitch become such an "Emergency? Humans have given birth for thousands of years without having "hospitals" or "doctors" to do so, the way our society has made birth into something you "MUST" go to a hospital to do is absurd.
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Interesting that you bring up such a seemingly trivial aspect of life. There is a rich history behind it.

The truth is that only in the last 100 years has child bearing been so successful. And even then, only in developed countries. Before the advent of sanitation and transportation, it was not practical to expect a doctor to be there at the birth. Certainly there have always been doctors and things related to hospitals, but they were far away and the possibility of infection and lack of supplies was a certainty.

Due to this, infant as well as mother mortality was very high. Death of the mother was about 30% and death of the child was about 50%. Not to mention once the child was born, getting it to stay alive for the first couple years was hard as well.

What this resulted in was the detachment, or rather the LACK OF attachment that we see today with our children. Humans could not suffer through the loss of losing those important to them over and over again. So parents chose not to get attached to their children. This is what led to children being treated like adults in previous history (or what we would call abuse). Sexual abuse, physical abuse, exploitation, murder, everything human adults did to each other, they did to children without hesitation because a child was not held in high esteem. A child was just another human being.

Even today, we can see this as a weakness that is often exploited. Ask any parent in a developed country what their absolute worst fear is, and inevitably it will come down to the protection of their children. Even our politicians use it against us, often taking actions or enacting laws "to protect the children". People from other countries that have not developed this social aspect can use that against us.

It's only because of the very high survival of our children can we afford to be attached to them.
 
westrock2000 said:
Interesting that you bring up such a seemingly trivial aspect of life. There is a rich history behind it.

The truth is that only in the last 100 years has child bearing been so successful. And even then, only in developed countries. Before the advent of sanitation and transportation, it was not practical to expect a doctor to be there at the birth. Certainly there have always been doctors and things related to hospitals, but they were far away and the possibility of infection and lack of supplies was a certainty.

Due to this, infant as well as mother mortality was very high. Death of the mother was about 30% and death of the child was about 50%. Not to mention once the child was born, getting it to stay alive for the first couple years was hard as well.

What this resulted in was the detachment, or rather the LACK OF attachment that we see today with our children. Humans could not suffer through the loss of losing those important to them over and over again. So parents chose not to get attached to their children. This is what led to children being treated like adults in previous history (or what we would call abuse). Sexual abuse, physical abuse, exploitation, murder, everything human adults did to each other, they did to children without hesitation because a child was not held in high esteem. A child was just another human being.

Even today, we can see this as a weakness that is often exploited. Ask any parent in a developed country what their absolute worst fear is, and inevitably it will come down to the protection of their children. Even our politicians use it against us, often taking actions or enacting laws "to protect the children". People from other countries that have not developed this social aspect can use that against us.

It's only because of the very high survival of our children can we afford to be attached to them.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you're getting your scientific evidence that people before the 20th century had little/no attachment to their own children, as they very much did. It's a basic instinct to want to protect your young/care for them, it's not something you have or don't based on the time period you live in. (This is not account for mental issues, IE postpartum depression, etc). Why do you think we can even observe this in animals and non-humans? They don't have doctors or modern healthcare, yet look at what happens to a whale if they lose their young, or a moose at how protectful they are.

The mortality rate had less to do with a need to give birth in a hospital and more to do with our basic understanding of health, sanitation and poverty.

It's very possible to have at-home/natural births yet many people balk at the idea and think you must go to a hospital and get epidurals and other things to do it.

The issue of mortality is more to do with poverty, lack of sanitation and other things. That is why some places in our modern world still have terrible mortality rates to this day.
 
Why does UBER not have to pick up a woman in labor? or why does UBER have the ability to refuse a fare for any reason without recourse? Its because they are unregulated, they are undercutting not only "taxi" wages, but they are skirting bylaws, regulations, and laws that legit taxi companies must follow. Along with having only "subcontractors" working for them and in turn also skirting any employer/employee rights and responsibilities.

Something to think about...
 
More gubment in our lives! God forbid someone make a few extra bucks without the greederment's permission
 
Merc1138 said:
It is not my job to make sure you have food on your table, unless you're paying me to do so. Can't pay someone? Work. Now if for some reason you cannot work, then we can talk about the collective responsibility of society. However it doesn't change that I as an individual pay for my own things as well as services used by the collective known as society through taxes, and I do not see the point of bettering myself to earn more if it's just going to be handed out to someone else for doing nothing.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you live anywhere that pays any amount of taxes you are personally paying to put food on someone's table and are personally responsible to do so. Even if you don't use all aspects of it, you have access to some amount of public service. You are putting food on the plates of roads crews, firemen, county sheriffs, SWAT teams. Water meter guys. You are buying very fancy dinners for a local mayor when he is likely partying at a conference and trying to cheat on his wife.

You have been provided with streets to walk on and people that protect it. You are responsible in paying for that privilege. Deal with it.

Also, you don't live in a system that gives you zero benefit for bettering yourself and not all of the extra money you can make from working harder is given to someone else. Did you post your response from a salt mine in Siberia? I'm doubting it.

The reason Canadians don't understand the apprehension of Americans to want to pay everyone's health care is because you are already paying tons of money for all kinds of social benefits you have and don't complain about. If you already personally pay for a park bench that is 30 miles away from you that homeless people sleep on, but get mad or call it communism if its a doctor instead? I don't get it.
 
VIC-20 said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you live anywhere that pays any amount of taxes you are personally paying to put food on someone's table and are personally responsible to do so. Even if you don't use all aspects of it, you have access to some amount of public service. You are putting food on the plates of roads crews, firemen, county sheriffs, SWAT teams. Water meter guys. You are buying very fancy dinners for a local mayor when he is likely partying at a conference and trying to cheat on his wife.

You have been provided with streets to walk on and people that protect it. You are responsible in paying for that privilege. Deal with it.

Also, you don't live in a system that gives you zero benefit for bettering yourself and not all of the extra money you can make from working harder is given to someone else. Did you post your response from a salt mine in Siberia? I'm doubting it.

The reason Canadians don't understand the apprehension of Americans to want to pay everyone's health care is because you are already paying tons of money for all kinds of social benefits you have and don't complain about. If you already personally pay for a park bench that is 30 miles away from you that homeless people sleep on, but get mad or call it communism if its a doctor instead? I don't get it.
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No, I don't complain about my tax money being spent on police, fire, etc. for me to use if necessary. It doesn't change that people who contribute absolutely nothing use things(clogging up roads, calls to emergency services requiring additional personnel to be hired or delays in service happening, etc). Just because I don't want even more of my money collected as taxes and fees and then blown on other people, doesn't mean I'm happy with everything else my tax money is wasted on as it is.
 
Merc1138 said:
No, I don't complain about my tax money being spent on police, fire, etc. for me to use if necessary. It doesn't change that people who contribute absolutely nothing use things(clogging up roads, calls to emergency services requiring additional personnel to be hired or delays in service happening, etc). Just because I don't want even more of my money collected as taxes and fees and then blown on other people, doesn't mean I'm happy with everything else my tax money is wasted on as it is.
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Fair enough, I hear you. But I don't think anything can be done to avoid that. If we are to give people the ability to accumulate more resources than someone else (by working harder, smarter, etc.), than the people on the short end of the stick need to be provided for or it all falls apart. Do people take advantage of both sides of that equation? Sure, its human nature. I agree, it sucks. But what would you suggest?
 
VIC-20 said:
Fair enough, I hear you. But I don't think anything can be done to avoid that. If we are to give people the ability to accumulate more resources than someone else (by working harder, smarter, etc.), than the people on the short end of the stick need to be provided for or it all falls apart. Do people take advantage of both sides of that equation? Sure, its human nature. I agree, it sucks. But what would you suggest?
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I suggest natural selection. The strong survive, the weak go away. There will always be strong and weak.
 
Everyone saying the driver was within their rights, the NYC laws beg to differ as the article states they have to follow the same laws as cab drivers.
 
Oh and if you care about the looks of your car more than having passengers in it paying you for a ride, don't use your own car.
 
The Uber driver should be within their right to refuse. What if the baby was delivered inside the car and there's bodily fluids of all sorts and blood EVERYWHERE. Cost of cleaning is not cheap. Definitely not cheaper than the Uber ride.

Also blood borne pathogens. Uber driver cleans up the mess, cuts themselves accidentally and get HIV or something else. Baby dies while inside the vehicle. Uber client sues the driver. Clients should have called Ambulance because babies are that important. O- board Paramedics are trained professionals.

Yes I'm sure Uber is skirting the law if not blatantly breaking all of them. But this one should have been handled by medical professionals.
 
I don't see why the driver is being faulted here, he/she should have the right to refuse to drive someone if the situation has potential to become unsafe for the driver or passenger(s). Ubber drivers arn't paramedics. Call an ambulance. Honestly I never even understood the whole idea of rushing to the hospital in labour, it's just unsafe, call an ambulance, that's what they're there for. They have the right to drive faster than the speed limit, people have to pull over, and when you get to the hospital you are pretty much crash carted directly to care.

Maybe we'll see an ambulance division of Uber come along though. MediUber™

Basically amateur paramedic service, or Hambulance. :D
 
westrock2000 said:
Your sympathy for others is not required, nor was it the purpose of my example. My example, was to show that just because something is made law, does not mean that suddenly everyone will be able to follow the law. You said there was no excuse. The excuse is the realities of life in the economic system we have in place.

It sounds like you are satisfied with your financial position, and that is good. But do you truly understand what it means for YOU to be successful? Do you know what is required by others for you to be successful?

In order for 1 person to be successful, many others MUST be impoverished. There is no solution possible that would allow for EVERYONE to be successful. That is not how money works. Money creates poverty. The by-product is wealth. In order for money to get value, it must be a limited resource. If all people had money, why would it be worth anything?

Even if every single person in this country was educated and extremely hard working, there would still be poverty. There would still be janitors and ditch diggers and hamburger flippers. There would obviously be a lot more under employment as well.

I understand your attitude, and I don't blame you for justifying your lifestyle relative to others. It is what we are taught from a very young age in this country. But what you do need to understand is that for the concept of financial success to exist, the reality of financial failure MUST come first. Many people must suffer in order for the system to work. The 1%'ers or whatever you want to call them, is actually the system of money working flawlessly. Hopefully you can see what the solution is. It is not as easy as people just simply being "more determined". That's a distraction.
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Man i wont waste my precious time on you but i will shorten it for you Liberalism+Socialism+Over regulation+ Overtaxation = Poverty
 
Can't fault the uber driver. It's a taxi service and not an ambulance service. Don't be cheap at someone else's expense.
 
BoogerBomb said:
Everyone saying the driver was within their rights, the NYC laws beg to differ as the article states they have to follow the same laws as cab drivers.
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The point is that the driver "Should" be within his rights to refuse service for any reason or no reason at all. These guys operate their private cars not fleet owned taxi cabs. The law is a terribly written relic of a different era which no longer exists.
 
This driver was well within his rights to deny her transportation to the hospital. This happened in NYC - I live in NYC - why the fuck would you take a cab any time of day during a pregnancy is beyond me.

Call 911, get an ambulance - their sirens will cut through all that traffic you would sit in with an Uber like butter.
 
mi7chy said:
Can't fault the uber driver. It's a taxi service and not an ambulance service. Don't be cheap at someone else's expense.
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Do you, or anyone else here who keeps knee jerking the line "ambulance", know what the recommended course of action is for a woman in labor is? Yup, call a cab, NOT an ambulance.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Do you, or anyone else here who keeps knee jerking the line "ambulance", know what the recommended course of action is for a woman in labor is? Yup, call a cab, NOT an ambulance.
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If you can not afford to hire an ambulance when in labour dont breed what ever happened tp personal responsibility, considering she was puking at the time he had every right, or what if he is in a rush panics gets in car accident baby dies he gets sued and all other complications if you cant afford to have kids dont breathe,
 
Deathroned said:
If you can not afford to hire an ambulance when in labour dont breed what ever happened tp personal responsibility, considering she was puking at the time he had every right, or what if he is in a rush panics gets in car accident baby dies he gets sued and all other complications if you cant afford to have kids dont breathe,
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I never will support a society that only allows the wealthy to reproduce.

Why the hate for the parents? Are you looking at their financial statements?. I hope that your life continues to be safe. I myself have been laid off twice and can see how quickly you can fall into that hated group of 'poor' people. My dad was laid off shortly after I was born and my parents had to resort to collecting stamps. I required incubation as I was way too early. Not many people have that kind of money just sitting around waiting to give the hospital.
 
Deathroned said:
If you can not afford to hire an ambulance when in labour dont breed what ever happened tp personal responsibility, considering she was puking at the time he had every right, or what if he is in a rush panics gets in car accident baby dies he gets sued and all other complications if you cant afford to have kids dont breathe,
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Again it is not about being able to afford anything. Calling an ambulance may delay you getting to the hospital for the simple fact that most dispatchers will probably try to get you to call a cab, and they realize that labor is not an emergency situation so in the queue of available ambulances you probably are not going to get priority.

Puking is not a sign of something bad happening either, it's quite a normal response to women who go into labor, especially if they've just eaten something.
 
alxlwson said:
Indeed I am.
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Well he's been awfully weak for many decades. If it wasn't for his wealth and people caring for him, he would have died a long time ago. He's also a public advocate of wealth distribution. Why are you a fan of him again?
 
tetris42 said:
Well he's been awfully weak for many decades. If it wasn't for his wealth and people caring for him, he would have died a long time ago. He's also a public advocate of wealth distribution. Why are you a fan of him again?
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His scientific contributions to the world.
I have zero knowledge of his politics. Hes a physicist, not a politician. I care as much about his politics as I do about Brittany Spears' politics.
 
It was his call. His car. He made a decision. He might be an asshole for it, but that's about as far as it goes.

Of course, as someone else mentioned - stupid laws saying he has to take them... :(
 
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