HardOCP News
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Apple should just market 16GB phones as 12GB and then brag about the "extra" storage they are really giving you. Problem solved! 
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Apple Sued For iOS 8's Use Of Storage
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heatlesssun
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Don't see this going anywhere as this is the case for all devices and has been forever.
steakman1971
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The OS does take a lot of space. I'm not sure the point of the law suit. If they win, will Apple have to pay out? This would also affect other phones/laptops/tablets.
Has there been a class action suit against hard drive manufactures yet? When I buy a 1TB drive, I'm not really getting that much space. After I format, it's only 900 something. (I know why this is the case - 1000 vs 1024, just throwing it out for anyone wanting to sue the HD manufacturers).
Has there been a class action suit against hard drive manufactures yet? When I buy a 1TB drive, I'm not really getting that much space. After I format, it's only 900 something. (I know why this is the case - 1000 vs 1024, just throwing it out for anyone wanting to sue the HD manufacturers).
Already done and all we got were lawyer payouts and fine print that says "1GB = 1 billion bytes, actual formatted capacity may be less."
The "average consumer" is a dolt.
The "average lawyer" will jump on this to make some quick cash against Apple.
The whole thing is just stupid. The phone has 16 GB of storage and some of it gets used by the phone itself......go figure....plus all the shit that gets loaded in by Verizon or ATT......are people really this stupid or do they just have absolutely nothing better to do with their time.
Buy a fucking Android phone and put in a storage card......dumbass.
The "average lawyer" will jump on this to make some quick cash against Apple.
The whole thing is just stupid. The phone has 16 GB of storage and some of it gets used by the phone itself......go figure....plus all the shit that gets loaded in by Verizon or ATT......are people really this stupid or do they just have absolutely nothing better to do with their time.
Buy a fucking Android phone and put in a storage card......dumbass.
Makeroflostsouls
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This would be why I got my wife a S5 lol she keep filling up her crapy iphone.. Now she has a 64gig card in her phone plus the phone storage. Same with my Note 4.. screw Apple lol..
sfsuphysics
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Point of lawsuit? Money of course. However somewhere way back at the beginning I'm sure someone actually was a bit miffed at the lack of storage space, do Apple devices allow you to add extra storage space yet?
However there is something to be said about how one is allowed to market products, take an extreme example of an 8GB OS that takes half of the storage space of your 16GB, do they really have the right to advertise that as 16GB? Or should they have to advertise the total space YOU can use on the phone (which is 8GB)? What about an extreme example of that same OS on an 8GB iPuck, so you have zero space because it's all occupied by the OS? Would they simply stop selling an 8GB version because it is bound to ruffle feathers, then put the 16GB as the base model even though you're still only get 8GB of space.
They might have something here too considering you're being sold (and more importantly, advertised) an all in one product, I've seen the industry somewhat push towards that when doing all-in-one PCs where the video is onboard and shared with the system ram and they tell you 1GB ram, 768MB usable.
I saw something similar to this in the lumber industry, every piece of lumber is 1/2" less than advertised specs, so 2x4 is 1.5x3.5, 4x6 is 3.5x5.5, they claim its shrinkage due to moisture, but it's always uniform across the board, so why don't they cut that extra 1/2 inch before hand then let it shrink down to dimensional size? Why is all plywood actually 1/32" thinner than what they're selling? However you don't see 1/2" plywood anymore, you actually see it advertised as 15/32, and if you see the big stacks you can see the sides actually labeled as such. I'm not sure who out their decided we can screw over the customer by making smaller sizes but charging the same price, but they did and it was accepted. For most people its no big deal, but for those in old houses it is a pain in the ass if you need to replace anything since you need to go a size larger and rip it down.
Number of real easy fixes.
Add space/hardware for a micro SD card. With Foxcon labor that is what, an extra $5 to total costs.
Put in a bigger ROM - Flash rom / eprom even.
Put a not on the box that some storage space is used by the operating system (what Apple will likely do)
Any/all would fix this. #1 (IMO) is the best solution.
Add space/hardware for a micro SD card. With Foxcon labor that is what, an extra $5 to total costs.
Put in a bigger ROM - Flash rom / eprom even.
Put a not on the box that some storage space is used by the operating system (what Apple will likely do)
Any/all would fix this. #1 (IMO) is the best solution.
Ashbringer
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Except that now half the Android phones sold have no SD Card slot. The ones that do mostly come with 8GB of storage, which is now standard. No big deal you may think, just flop everything onto the SD Card. Except that somehow Google now doesn't allow certain apps to move over to the SD Card. Not without breaking the app.
It's becoming a mess, probably because everyone is trying to get you to spend more money on internal storage, or get you into cloud storage. Meanwhile a 32GB class 10 SD card is $17. How and why 32GB isn't standard yet for internal storage.
Also I'm pissed that my only source of storage is mostly used by the OS. Which does make advertising it as 16GB, false. Hell my Android 8GB is mostly used up by the OS, making me entirely reliant on my SD card, which can't hold all my apps cause Google is a dick.
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It's because they're making a fortune upselling people to high-capacity flash devices. It costs them $10, they charge $100 and pocket the $90 difference as profit. Because every device manufacturer seems to do this they all get away with it. All we need is for one to crack before they all do. The reason they hold fast to this is that it's one of the only ways to make money of tablets and mid to low end phones. The prices have gotten so low that the low-storage versions don't make very much profit.
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Kind of torn on this issue.
As everyone has stated already we've had "formatted capacity" and "available space" caveats for ever and ever with computers and electronic devices.
But when you are dealing with a device with limited space, it's not like it is inconsequential. With a 1TB HD, windows using up 30-40GB is insignificant.
When your 16GB pocket device loses over 3GB to the OS, that's 20% loss in storage.
As PC users we might have a little different view if hard disks on premade machines were always called 1TB but there was always only 800GB usable.
I went through the same issue 4-5 years ago when I bought my 8GB iPod 4. It took a little reading to find out how much was going to be left after the OS. It was a major issue in deciding whether to buy it.
As everyone has stated already we've had "formatted capacity" and "available space" caveats for ever and ever with computers and electronic devices.
But when you are dealing with a device with limited space, it's not like it is inconsequential. With a 1TB HD, windows using up 30-40GB is insignificant.
When your 16GB pocket device loses over 3GB to the OS, that's 20% loss in storage.
As PC users we might have a little different view if hard disks on premade machines were always called 1TB but there was always only 800GB usable.
I went through the same issue 4-5 years ago when I bought my 8GB iPod 4. It took a little reading to find out how much was going to be left after the OS. It was a major issue in deciding whether to buy it.
sfsuphysics
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The problem is that Apple isn't telling you how much "available space" you will have, they are telling you how much "storage space"
(from their website)
iPad Air comes in two storage sizes: 16GB and 32GB. The term GB stands for gigabytes. The more gigabytes you have, the more content you can store on your iPad apps, HD videos, movies, photos, books, magazines, and more. If, for example, you have a large music library or you frequently download HD movies,
(only relevant footnote to this)
1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less.
Now I know their lawyers are going to try and argue that the OS is considered part of the "format" of the device, but I hope the judge can see right through that silly argument. The amount of "storage size" you get is going to be 16 & 32GB minus (some non-zero value and probably is not insignificant)
D
Deleted whining member 223597
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Samsung didn't seem to disclose it on their website either (Note 4). HTC did, but for them you get to lose 6GB on a 16GB device and 8GB on a 32GB device. This has been happening for years, if you're gonna get pissed at Apple for doing it make sure you also get mad at every other manufacturer and sue them. It's not really false advertising for anyone considering the devices do have the capacity they advertise, you just can't use all of it.
Backup/transfer photos and whatnot to itunes on a PC and install through iTunes. Not that hard...
It's a dumb lawsuit since how much storage it has and how much is available follows the practice defined by the hard drive settlement and prior devices. The plaintiff won't win.
That aside, I do wish something like this would be changed. A 4GB flash device to hold the OS and for other housekeeping duties would be a cheap fix. It's not like the cost of flash memory is a big component of the build price, but it's certainly used to inflate the price in larger capacity models. Seriously, we should easily be seeing 128GB devices at price points major manufacturers charge for 32GB models.
That aside, I do wish something like this would be changed. A 4GB flash device to hold the OS and for other housekeeping duties would be a cheap fix. It's not like the cost of flash memory is a big component of the build price, but it's certainly used to inflate the price in larger capacity models. Seriously, we should easily be seeing 128GB devices at price points major manufacturers charge for 32GB models.
rat
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And despite how cheap flash memory is, how Apple continues to sell 32GB increments for $200.
$200 price difference between the 64GB and 128GB iPhone models. Only difference between the two being the size of the NAND.
Meanwhile single NAND 128GB Flashdrives are selling for under $50.
D
Deleted whining member 223597
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You could at least get your facts right. 16GB iPhone 6 is $200 (with a contract), 64GB is $300, 128GB is $400. Where is this $200 price difference you speak of? While they are ripping everyone off, every other manufacturer does this too, or they just offer one storage option. Also 16GB-64GB is 48GB, and 64-128 is 64.
I think the difference is that you control what is put on a hard disk. You don't have to put an OS on there at all if it's used to storage. With phones and other consumer electronics, you have to have the OS installed and you have little to no control over what gets installed with it. You can install a custom ROM that is slimmed down, but that's a whole other bag of worms and OEMs are actively working to prevent users from doing that.
Ashbringer
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Well you see Tim Cook personally kisses every NAND that goes into every iPhone. Even though Apple buys in bulk and gets it cheaper than we do, but it has to get that extra Apple love, which bumps the price up.
Just kidding, they robbing you blind.
rudy
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Personally I think the hard drive issue is far worse and more deceptive. And someone should have stepped in years ago. Redefining a GB to something it is not and never will be is absolute horse shit.
IMO the reason this law suit is going through now is largely because people are really pissed that apples base model the 16Gb is simply not enough for anyone but basic users. And there was no excuse for not offering a 32GB model other than to screw people into paying more to force them up to 64Gb models. I know a couple people who were really pissed about this. On top of that apple doesn't have expandable storage. All I have to say is apple consumers get what they deserve. And I think its kind of funny / bullshit that apple consumers always think they can file a law suit to force apple to be something it is not. Its not like there are not plenty of phones out there with options to suit any need you could possibly have. The phone market is wonderfully competitive and cheap now days make use of it.
Apple doesn't allow ATT to preload anything on the iPhone. At least none of them that I have owned. I was shocked that Samsung allows it. I recently got a Note 4 and found it was preloaded with tons of complete shit and an AT&T logo pops up on boot. WTF...
This lawsuit is meritless. Apple and every other phone maker out there lists the unformatted capacity. Anyone who expects no file-system and OS overhead is a complete idiot, and that overhead is going to continue to grow when you go from 32 to 64 bit binaries and increase screen resolution (due to increased raster graphics sizes.) I do agree with many consensus around here. The first being that older 8GB iPhones are now almost full from the start with iOS 8(yes you can get around the upgrade issue by plugging into iTunes but that doesn't fix the problem for users with no PC.) The second being that 16GB in a base phone is useless. It is merely to encourage people to pay $100 to step up to 64GB.
If this lawsuit is successful you can guarantee that Android makers will be next. Yes switching to Android with an SD is a solution as I did, however, there are still people like my parents that should stay with Apple phones. They are just the most simple of the smart phone devices.
rudy
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lol really why would you care if they put a splash screen or logo on the phone? Lots of makers of electronics do this even in windows. I can understand hate for other stuff but not that.
Because a mobile OS has a lot more than just an OS, all of apples default preloaded stuff like iTunes etc... And since the average consumer cannot uninstall any of this bloatware they really have no control over the space, I think with apple phones it is even nearly impossible to roll back an OS upgrade.
shspvr
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with or with out contract on iPhone 6
16GB base price
64GB + $100 over base price
128GB + $100 or + $200 over base price
iPad Air 2
16GB base price
64GB + $100 over base price
128GB + $100 or + $200 over base price
And there $32GB with older model that had one time been price at $100+ market up but now drop to down $50+, You can get 128GB SSD way cheaper there is no reason for apple not do 32GB for price of a 16GB model or even the 64GB or #$%$#% give us a flash slot you cheap ares.
Dead Parrot
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I think this suit has some merit due to the design choices most manufacturers are making in not including the ability for the end user to add or expand storage after purchase. Its not a technology limitation as my old flip phone has a micro SD slot. Since the manufacturers also have a financial interest in pushing phone owners to move to cloud storage with the always popular monthly service charge, it could well be alleged that they are bloating each new OS version to further shrink the end user usable space.
Probably the end result is phone makers will have to advertise the amount of space available for end user data storage much like the HD makers have to put a notice on each drive's paperwork that the HD makers use base 10 numbers to inflate the HD sizes and that your base 2 size report from the OS will be less.
Oh and several lawyers will earn enough to go on long around the world luxury cruises.
Probably the end result is phone makers will have to advertise the amount of space available for end user data storage much like the HD makers have to put a notice on each drive's paperwork that the HD makers use base 10 numbers to inflate the HD sizes and that your base 2 size report from the OS will be less.
Oh and several lawyers will earn enough to go on long around the world luxury cruises.
Why not just state actual storage available? Do you see car manufacturers saying a car has 500hp with small fine print saying "on race fuel"? Or runs 10's... with slicks?
I remember the first galaxy s phone and perhaps the gs2 had 16gb of storage + 2gb for the os. So you had all 16gb(14.7 actually) for use while the os was stored on a separate memory module.
rat
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Nothing is stored on a separate memory module. It's all one NAND chip with separate partitions for /system and /data.
rudy
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Well part of the problem here is if you want to use shared storage the advertised available space is a moving target as new updates are released.
Personally I think that computing devices are common enough now days that no one should have to be told that an OS takes up space and you should inquire about how much space it takes up. As said if you want to argue about 16GB only being 14.7 than I all for that argument. If you don't know guess you just learned the hard way, just like you have to learn that a 2x4 is not really 2x4 inches.
Personally I think that computing devices are common enough now days that no one should have to be told that an OS takes up space and you should inquire about how much space it takes up. As said if you want to argue about 16GB only being 14.7 than I all for that argument. If you don't know guess you just learned the hard way, just like you have to learn that a 2x4 is not really 2x4 inches.
LightningCrash
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The original Galaxy S had a very small oneNAND module and an moviNAND module. Not quite 16+2, more like 16+.17 though.
I think this is a reasonable thing to take to the courts, its along the same lines as the 1024 = 1000 bytes in HDD.
Why shouldn't a phone manufacturer include a warning on the box stating that the OS will take up X amount of space potentially less after OS updates. It gives the customer a reasonable expectation.
Its more warranted than ever before as OS have exponentially grown in size over the years especially on Mobile devices, what used to be a relatively small amount of used space is now a significant amount.
Why shouldn't a phone manufacturer include a warning on the box stating that the OS will take up X amount of space potentially less after OS updates. It gives the customer a reasonable expectation.
Its more warranted than ever before as OS have exponentially grown in size over the years especially on Mobile devices, what used to be a relatively small amount of used space is now a significant amount.
Haven
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As others have said, this isn't an Apple issue. This is a phone issue.
My work phone is a Nokia Lumia 928, a Windows phone. Verizon says it is a 32GB phone. When I look at the info on the phone I have 29GB available to be used and 7GB used so far with next to nothing on it. I use it only for work and have only the work approved software on it. Oh, and the 928 does not have a slot to put in a Micro-SD card to upgrade the memory.
My last Android phone had the same thing, it was an 8GB but 2GB was used by OS and preloaded software by Verizon.
So again, not an Apple issue, but a smartphone issue.
My work phone is a Nokia Lumia 928, a Windows phone. Verizon says it is a 32GB phone. When I look at the info on the phone I have 29GB available to be used and 7GB used so far with next to nothing on it. I use it only for work and have only the work approved software on it. Oh, and the 928 does not have a slot to put in a Micro-SD card to upgrade the memory.
My last Android phone had the same thing, it was an 8GB but 2GB was used by OS and preloaded software by Verizon.
So again, not an Apple issue, but a smartphone issue.
Because it's subject to change.
So lets say you buy a iPhone and it's loaded with IOS 8, but 9 is out. The very first thing it's going to do is upgrade itself. So now instead of 14.9 gigs free it's 14 gigs free. You better believe someone is going to raise hell about the missing 900 megs.
People just don't understand why when you try to explain it. I used to do tech support for DSL 15 years ago. People used to call up all the time complaining that their 1.5m service was only 1.2. Trying to explain why usually just angered them and made them think you were bullshitting them. this is the same thing.
jbltecnicspro
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Did anyone ever sue Microsoft over something like this? I remember the original Xbox 360 had a 20 GB hard drive, but due to all the software and stuff that it had, only 13.7 GB were actually available to the user.
RigmoroleMotorCo
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it seems anti-consumer to design phones to become obsolete, especially when someone is paying a premium as with Apple..
I'll just stick with my cheap Windows phone that I added a 64 GB micro SD chip...
I'll just stick with my cheap Windows phone that I added a 64 GB micro SD chip...
Darunion
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The likely do have a decent shot at this. The end result will likely be a statement on the website and packaging that will just say "A portion of the storage capacity is reserved for the system, user available storage will vary."
Darunion
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and then the other phone makers will likely change their statements too so they can avoid this situation that most already are guilty of