Windows 10’s Very Different Way Of Updating

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
It looks like Microsoft's next OS will bring with it a different way of updating as well. What do you think of the change?

With Windows 10, the update approach is set to change substantially. Microsoft is acknowledging the need, and even desirability, of making regular incremental improvements to its operating system. It's also, however, acknowledging the different appetite for change between consumers and enterprise users.
Click to expand...
 
It makes sense. There is no need to hold off features for future version of the OS. I kind like the idea that Windows 10 will be the "last" Windows. Though if that was the case I would have just called it "Windows" and dropped the "10".
 
If software developers stuck to the base OS as a required minimum I think it's a good plan. But they never do. Half my software in XP requires SP3 and the other half won't run with it.

Did they say anything about changing their current policy of holding the world hostage to online authorization in order to download security and other essential updates? In case anyone was wondering whether eating a bit of profit or keeping the world's networks perpetually infected with malware takes a higher priority at MS.
 
JeffDC said:
In case anyone was wondering whether eating a bit of profit or keeping the world's networks perpetually infected with malware takes a higher priority at MS.
Click to expand...

windows isnt that expensive and there is a free OS called linux. i don't get why people would rather install a dvd image or a crack from some dubious source that could come with a ton of malware instead of getting the cheapest version of windows. most people get it bundled with a shitty pre-built pc anyway.
 
Windows 10 will receive a steady stream of both feature updates and security updates. Security fixes will work the way they work today: published monthly, installed to most people's computers automatically. Feature updates, however, will have three different release speeds. At one end of the scale will be the consumer release: as soon as new features are available, they'll be distributed to users. This is how Windows will deliver continuous improvement the way platforms like Chrome OS and Windows Phone do already.
Click to expand...

Another ground breaking Microsoft idea because we finally figured it out what people really need in updates. How come this garbage gets written down then repeated by someone which does not understand the desktop market, for tablets this will also mean totally nothing.

What is this need for making an Operating System seem essential while in reality desktop users do not have a choice, It is either a MS OS or another MS OS.

Then you get the run down : you will get updates then you will get feature updates. bottom line you will get continues improvements

I'm wondering how many people fell of their chair reading this. Is arstechnica a tech website or has it been over run by Teletubbies recently?

Let's hope Ed Bott does not chip in with his ground breaking Windows 10 article because that might seriously drag away the arstechnica crowd.
 
temujin987 said:
windows isnt that expensive and there is a free OS called linux. i don't get why people would rather install a dvd image or a crack from some dubious source that could come with a ton of malware instead of getting the cheapest version of windows. most people get it bundled with a shitty pre-built pc anyway.
Click to expand...

There are reputable source for such software, where you don't' have to worry about the cons you mentioned.
 
temujin987 said:
windows isnt that expensive and there is a free OS called linux. i don't get why people would rather install a dvd image or a crack from some dubious source that could come with a ton of malware instead of getting the cheapest version of windows. most people get it bundled with a shitty pre-built pc anyway.
Click to expand...
The bottom line is, a certain and rather sizeable percentage of people in the world run unregistered copies of Windows, and denying security updates to these people accomplishes absolutely nothing except to indulge MS's passion for legalized extortion, and keep everyone on the network infected with malware. What kind of company would choose this policy (or even have a need for it) in light of a 90% monopoly position on the world's desktops? What other description in possible other than abject legalized extortion?
 
So if you buy one license, and its perpetually updated, you never have to buy a new version of windows? Maybe I'm not understanding correctly, but it seems like MS will be losing revenue this way due to less people and businesses upgrading to latest version every few years. If this is the case, the situation sounds ripe for MS to introduce a subscription model. Yikes.
 
I thought this was in regard to Windows Update. I don't understand why the anti-virus updates can't be made automatic, since they have new definitions every day.
 
I sorta have to laugh when they talk about the different levels and speed etc for "enterprises".

Man I am sour from a year long SCCM 2012 migration (which we still are dedicating lots of resources to troubleshoot issues and "quirks").

One thing that comes to my mind when I look at how MS is doing app deployment and support is that few of them actually have worked in a place that didn't just use office productivity software and other 90% of used apps (adobe etc).

For one, right now we can dictate what updates we approve... how are different speeds going to help or are any different? Hell MS can't even categorize their own stuff consistently. I swear .net stuff was in 3 different wsus categories. Crap will be in different speeds and be a cluster inside of 6 months.

Secondly, OS patches and security updates are generally pretty harmless, couple times a year we run into a patch and app or the patch itself has issues. When you start getting into feature updates and junk now you are getting into a way more lengthy UAT and compatibility testing scenario. IT doesn't have the time and if they do, sure shit the customer won't. Never mind the "what happened to X button, it was here yesterday?" support calls and training resources.

MS has been getting really complex and fancy lately. What I am personally seeing is its not helping us provide our customers what they want faster or more reliably. Its not making our jobs easier, its making it more complex with more pitfalls and gotchas.

Again I maybe sour because we are still spending resources figuring out fairly major SCCM 2012 issues and problems caused by the complexity of the system once implemented across 10k workstations with 1000 apps (which I don't think should be considered a "big" environment).
 
temujin987 said:
windows isnt that expensive and there is a free OS called linux. i don't get why people would rather install a dvd image or a crack from some dubious source that could come with a ton of malware instead of getting the cheapest version of windows. most people get it bundled with a shitty pre-built pc anyway.
Click to expand...

Some people do buy Windows but dont get the install media (most PCs are still sold this way) making it almost impossible to move Windows to a new PC without a downloaded dvd.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
So if you buy one license, and its perpetually updated, you never have to buy a new version of windows? Maybe I'm not understanding correctly, but it seems like MS will be losing revenue this way due to less people and businesses upgrading to latest version every few years. If this is the case, the situation sounds ripe for MS to introduce a subscription model. Yikes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, first thing that crossed my mind was subscription model. I hope not.
 
So, basically they're moving away from security-rollup-style service packs and sticking with individual KB hotfixes?

Ugh. A couple years down the road, that's going to be a fucking MESS. Seriously. How long does it take to bring a clean install of Win7 or Win8 up to date NOW? And with 8 you get the monster 8.1 update plus a bunch of new hotfixes...

Honestly, any hotfix more than 3, 6 or 12 months old should be rolled into a security-rollup megapatch. Rather than:

You have downloaded 300 hotfixes. Please reboot. You now have 300 more hotfixes.
You have downloaded another 300 hotfixes. Please reboot. You now have 500 more hotfixes.

So if you're loading Windows 10 in 2017.

You have downloaded the 2014 security rollup. Please reboot.
You have downloaded the 2015 security rollup. Please reboot.
You have downloaded the 2016 security rollup. Please reboot. You now have 40 hotfixes to install.
 
Hornet said:
Yeah, first thing that crossed my mind was subscription model. I hope not.
Click to expand...

This is my concern. Also after time I would think an OS needs a massive rebuild and not incremental patches. Kind of goes against Microsoft's idea of refreshing the OS every few years they announced when Win 7 was coming out.
 
Chas said:
So, basically they're moving away from security-rollup-style service packs and sticking with individual KB hotfixes?

Ugh. A couple years down the road, that's going to be a fucking MESS. Seriously. How long does it take to bring a clean install of Win7 or Win8 up to date NOW? And with 8 you get the monster 8.1 update plus a bunch of new hotfixes...

Honestly, any hotfix more than 3, 6 or 12 months old should be rolled into a security-rollup megapatch. Rather than:

You have downloaded 300 hotfixes. Please reboot. You now have 300 more hotfixes.
You have downloaded another 300 hotfixes. Please reboot. You now have 500 more hotfixes.

So if you're loading Windows 10 in 2017.

You have downloaded the 2014 security rollup. Please reboot.
You have downloaded the 2015 security rollup. Please reboot.
You have downloaded the 2016 security rollup. Please reboot. You now have 40 hotfixes to install.
Click to expand...

THAT is where the value of buying the newer OS version will come in.
It might be the easy way to get the last couple of years updates bundled with the install.
You can of course create a streamed install but you can be sure something like the latest DirectX wont work on the older version.

If this is the case, its about creating a new inconvenience to make people upgrade.
 
Hornet said:
Yeah, first thing that crossed my mind was subscription model. I hope not.
Click to expand...
It's going to happen like it or not. Most software makers want subscriptions so they can have a steady stream of income from us. They want to be the new cable companies of the future. Pocketing money, updating less, then raising the subscription rates due to other costs while introducing "value added" fees to stuff that should have been part of the "subscription". That is our future. To paraphrase a commercial "Subscription service suffers from subscription friction. You need some value added fees to lube up and prevent that." :eek:
 
I just got used to Windows 7, completely skipped Windows 8, is there even a reason to go Windows 10? Did I miss math class, where is Windows 9??? Ughhh....
 
Nenu said:
THAT is where the value of buying the newer OS version will come in.
It might be the easy way to get the last couple of years updates bundled with the install.
You can of course create a streamed install but you can be sure something like the latest DirectX wont work on the older version.

If this is the case, its about creating a new inconvenience to make people upgrade.
Click to expand...

And, as usual, going about it in the stupidest, most obnoxious way possible.
 
Aspendancer said:
I just got used to Windows 7, completely skipped Windows 8, is there even a reason to go Windows 10? Did I miss math class, where is Windows 9??? Ughhh....
Click to expand...

It is called marketing and it is funny. MS might still screw people over and tie DX12 to Windows 10 just because they can.

You willl never get used to Windows, Windows always has a very special feature that lets you down when you don't need it...
 
Aspendancer said:
I just got used to Windows 7, completely skipped Windows 8, is there even a reason to go Windows 10? Did I miss math class, where is Windows 9??? Ughhh....
Click to expand...

Well Windows 7 is old and Windows 10 is similar to Windows 7, Start Menu, no charms, etc., but has the pros of 8, fast boot, etc. So yeah it's not a bad idea to switch.
 
Needs one click updating for clean installs. The way it is currently with hundreds of updates, multiple reboots, and hours of updating is a mess.
 
I'd just like the option to download all the updates for an OS in a monthly update .ISO so I can download them once a month, burn them to DVD and then I haven't got to wait to download them all again for every machine I rebuild that month. Even every quarter would help.

I don't do enterprise stuff so a slipstreamed one size fits all type build wont work for me.
 
Aspendancer said:
I just got used to Windows 7, completely skipped Windows 8, is there even a reason to go Windows 10? Did I miss math class, where is Windows 9??? Ughhh....
Click to expand...

No

Though rest assured some techdink wingnut will chime in and explain why you need to install the newest and latest bullshyt that you don't want or need.
 
ICOM said:
No

Though rest assured some techdink wingnut will chime in and explain why you need to install the newest and latest bullshyt that you don't want or need.
Click to expand...

It's like you're not even self-aware enough to realize where you're posting.
 
PCunicorn said:
Well Windows 7 is old
Click to expand...

Yes so old :rolleyes: so much software it can no longer run that requires Windows 8+, like the metro calculator app..

Better every Windows7 customer upgrade to Windows 10: Pay Forever Edition + Cloud Plus Pack right away.
 
DPI said:
Yes so old :rolleyes: so much software it can no longer run that requires Windows 8+, like the metro calculator app..
Click to expand...

It is old. It's been out for 5 years now. Windows 7 was released in the same year as Snow Leopard and the iPhone 3GS, to add some historical context. Windows 7 will no longer get new features beginning in January, which effectively nullifies it as an OS that enthusiasts should be interested in.

The ending of feature additions beginning in January should be a huge red flag for you; this likely means no DirectX 11.3 or 12. Windows 10 better be awesome; 7 is effectively dead as an enthusiast level OS. Works great in the enterprise, though… for now, at least.

If nothing else, Windows 8.1 and 10's support of NVMe is a reason enough to upgrade, IMO.
 
ICOM said:
Though rest assured some techdink wingnut will chime in and explain why you need to install the newest and latest bullshyt that you don't want or need.
Click to expand...

I love using the newest, latest and greatest OS and software. I don't need it, but I want it. My advice to others is exactly the same - do you NEED it or WANT it? If you don't answer yes to either, don't upgrade. There is no reason to upgrade. Does your PC do everything you need it to do? Does your software work? Are you happy with it? Then, don't upgrade.

If you WANT to upgrade - go for it. It's not a mandatory upgrade. Yes, eventually support will end for the OS, but that's expected. It's like that with most software.

You don't need to install the newest and latest BS. Not unless you want to or you have something that requires the newest and latest BS.

I don't get why people feel forced to upgrade. If you like your current OS, you can keep your current OS. ;)
 
Ur_Mom said:
I don't get why people feel forced to upgrade. If you like your current OS, you can keep your current OS. ;)
Click to expand...
Please buy a new PC and ask for Windows 7.

Your entire post ignores the fact that the average lifespan of PCs (including business workstations) is 2.4 years. As long as MS is allowed to dictate specific Windows versions on new PCs, they create artificially short product lifespans and essentially control their own profit destiny. This scam is by no means limited to PC operating systems, e.g. Google currently enjoys the same luxury in the global search engine market. IMO future historians are going to read about the current era with astonished wonder.
 
LurkerLito said:
It's going to happen like it or not. Most software makers want subscriptions so they can have a steady stream of income from us. They want to be the new cable companies of the future. Pocketing money, updating less, then raising the subscription rates due to other costs while introducing "value added" fees to stuff that should have been part of the "subscription". That is our future. To paraphrase a commercial "Subscription service suffers from subscription friction. You need some value added fees to lube up and prevent that." :eek:
Click to expand...
That's the unofficial but far more accurate version of MS's roadmap. It can be condensed even further:

Gates: Do it for the love of computing.

Ballmer: Do it for the money.

Nadella: Do it every month for the money.

Interesting sidenote imo that all national utilities (electricity, telephone etc) went through this same phase of corporate monopoly control, and resultant market extortion. E.g. the situation with U.S. telephone companies during the first years of the Great Depression was so bad it resulted in the Communications Act of 1934, the same Title II regulations and protections now being considered for internet traffic.
 
Terpfen said:
It is old. It's been out for 5 years now. Windows 7 was released in the same year as Snow Leopard and the iPhone 3GS, to add some historical context. Windows 7 will no longer get new features beginning in January, which effectively nullifies it as an OS that enthusiasts should be interested in.

The ending of feature additions beginning in January should be a huge red flag for you; this likely means no DirectX 11.3 or 12. Windows 10 better be awesome; 7 is effectively dead as an enthusiast level OS. Works great in the enterprise, though… for now, at least.

If nothing else, Windows 8.1 and 10's support of NVMe is a reason enough to upgrade, IMO.
Click to expand...

...I didn't see this coming.
 
just say no to software as a service and cloud storage and processing
you pay for a device then pay for and os to run the device then pay for the apps then pay to store the data create by the device and apps.... 3 subs for one device F THAT NOISE
 
Terpfen said:
It is old. It's been out for 5 years now. Windows 7 was released in the same year as Snow Leopard and the iPhone 3GS, to add some historical context. Windows 7 will no longer get new features beginning in January, which effectively nullifies it as an OS that enthusiasts should be interested in.

The ending of feature additions beginning in January should be a huge red flag for you; this likely means no DirectX 11.3 or 12. Windows 10 better be awesome; 7 is effectively dead as an enthusiast level OS. Works great in the enterprise, though… for now, at least.

If nothing else, Windows 8.1 and 10's support of NVMe is a reason enough to upgrade, IMO.
Click to expand...

Well let's keep it in perspective though:

- Windows 7 may be 5 years old, but its only a few years older than Windows 8. Support will continue to 2020.

- The x86 programs market is stagnant as so many developers have shifted to mobile, there are no new innovative or killer programs like during the 90's and 2000's. The suites (MS Office, the Adobe's) are just iterating and coasting. Videogames are really the only thing happening as far as new programs and MS has abandoned PC gaming in favor of Xbox Xbox Xbox.

- Locking Windows 7 out of DirectX 12 will be at Microsoft's own peril; meanwhile all but the biggest developers will ignore it and continue coding for DX9/DX11. MS is no longer in a position to just paywall DX and tie it to a new Windows version while SteamOS is looming. I sure hope they do though.
 
Aspendancer said:
I just got used to Windows 7, completely skipped Windows 8, is there even a reason to go Windows 10? Did I miss math class, where is Windows 9??? Ughhh....
Click to expand...

Didn't they already address that. They skipped 9 to prevent coding/compatibility errors to keep shitty code from confusing Windows 9 with Windows 95 and Windows 98.
 
I only want one thing out of Windows 10 that really blows in Windows 8 -- make a downloadable ISO image available like Windows 7 so that the herd of OEM users can fix their problems.

I am so sick of telling people that they are screwed because the use an OEM Windows 8, so go to your OEM and now pay for a disk that should have come with the machine for free.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top