Apple's Work Force Is Mostly White And Male

xIronCrossx said:
And this pertains to me how? My point is that not everyone deserves to be judged/punished based on actions of others. No one in my family had anything to do with slavery (I'm from Germany), but because I am white I would still most likely have been viewed the same by your father. I could understand why, but that still doesn't make it right. Again, my point is that people tend to generalize way too much and is where a lot of racism comes into play.
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The nature of black existence in America has long been full of conflict and controversy centuries before anyone one of us was born. Sure blacks have some bad feeling about that, but so do an awful lot of white folks that seem to want to put it all on minorities these days. What a some whites want to call white guilt, I call white amnesia. The institutions of slavery and legal racism in this weren't exactly something blacks had a lot of say in for most of this country's history.

So I'm not blaming anyone alive for anything, but I'm not going to stand for anyone pointing fingers at me either. I'm just trying to live my life, work, be self-reliant and all of that. I am no more responsible for racism or being a bigot that anyone else here .
 
GlowingGhoul said:
Taking this one step further, I'd argue an equally qualified black man (or even better, woman) has an advantage in getting hired because these companies are so desperate to prove how diverse they are.
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lol, just lol. Gotta love that spin folks. Black people actually have an advantage over white people, as demonstrated by their superior numbers in employment.
 
GlowingGhoul said:
Yes, but generally not at the same level, with exceptions, all other things being equal.

I can throw a basketball at a hoop(not very well), should the NBA be forced to hire me?
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What do you mean "not at the same level"? Just because there arent as many doesnt meant that women cant perform at the same level, which is further evidence that it is purely circumstantial and not genetic. Do you really want to contest the overwhelming historical research that shows how girls driven a certain direction during their upbringing that inevitably leads a majority of them to avoiding science/math?

A Ph.D carrying female isnt a fluke, it's simply someone given an equal opportunity as a male during her formative years.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
What if Susy chose the doll and Timmy wanted the effin' truck? No, can't be, it MUST be a evil plan. And if it's evil, it must be because.. WHITE. And of course no woman would do that, so it must be because... MEN!
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The question isnt "what if" but rather "why does Susy choose the doll"?



Don't pretend many white folks aren't being hired because of the color of their skin. That's the definition of racism, isn't it? But it's white. And mostly males. So who cares?

And I'm latino, so if you disagree with me I already have my victim card ready, mmmkay? :D
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Let's place a revolving bet: 1 white guy vs 1 black guy applying for the same job with the same credentials. Who is more likely to get hired? I'll give you 2:1 on your money and we'll just run this imaginary test 100 times. Do you like your odds?
 
McFry said:
lol, just lol. Gotta love that spin folks. Black people actually have an advantage over white people, as demonstrated by their superior numbers in employment.
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So most blacks aren't as qualified as whites for these jobs but when they are qualified now that have an unfair advantage because they are black? This is why a lot of blacks just throw up their hands. Even when we play by the rules, it's still not good enough.
 
I like how when it comes to discussions about race, Asians never come into play. If you really think about it, the true victims are Asian-Americans/Asians. Not Blacks or Latinos. Although Asian-Americans place first in household income in America, above whites (gasp), they're never really given the same opportunities as white males in industries no matter how skill they are in their careers #thatglassceiling <-- I can't believe I just did that lol

Heck, even from an academic point of view, scholarships for college minorities exclude Asians and in limited to mainly Black or Hispanic. Asians aren't viewed as White people to white people. They're either seen as non-White, or just a person like anyone else, except without tho money handed down from mommy and daddy and are also without the many scholarships that are exclusive to non-Asians and still producing more money than everyone else.
 
TFchris said:
I like how when it comes to discussions about race, Asians never come into play. If you really think about it, the true victims are Asian-Americans/Asians. Not Blacks or Latinos. Although Asian-Americans place first in household income in America, above whites (gasp), they're never really given the same opportunities as white males in industries no matter how skill they are in their careers #thatglassceiling <-- I can't believe I just did that lol

Heck, even from an academic point of view, scholarships for college minorities exclude Asians and in limited to mainly Black or Hispanic. Asians aren't viewed as White people to white people. They're either seen as non-White, or just a person like anyone else, except without tho money handed down from mommy and daddy and are also without the many scholarships that are exclusive to non-Asians and still producing more money than everyone else.
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Speak for yourself, I am no victim.
 
take race out of it and think of anyone at any company who comes into the game

If you want to be taken seriously, if you want respect, you have to prove yourself. There are many paths to accomplishing this but hard work is how you do it in the business world.

Anyone ever been at work and the bosses son gets slid into some cushy do-nothing position, making more than you, and doing nothing but fucking up? What's anyones normal reaction to a situation like that?

I respect hard work and intelligence -- which is why I think every politician/lobbyist and public office should be purged across the board. The wanna be do gooders who support all this diversity bullshit, you want a quick fix to a long term problem. It's not going to work out because you aren't looking at the big picture. I don't care what color they are -- i won't respect anyone who gets the job just because they happen to fill a quota.

Want to get more black/brown/yellow/purple/rainbow people into tech firms? Put the money in education, you build from the ground up. It's like saying "hey let's add a 50,000 square foot mansion on top of our 100 story skyscraper" Just... no.

education and infrastructure -- that's what you need, the pieces fall into place after that.
 
I'm convinced that Asians are viewed as a threat that must be kept down. Want proof? Just look at Hollywood. White people (or maybe just Jews) are hell bent on making Asians, particularly males, look as bad as possible.
 
I'm Asian (technically half), and I do just fine everywhere I go. However, I will say that most (obviously not all) other Asian engineers I meet are socially retarded in some form or another. You can't get ahead if you don't project yourself, stand out, communicate, and have self confidence. Seriously, it never fails. There is almost always the "quiet Asian dude that doesn't talk to anyone and NEVER looks you in the eye when you talk to him" at every place I've worked as an adult.
 
How about let's create an equal opportunity for everyone before we discuss genetics?

We can control the variable of society, so let's change that to a constant for all sexes/races and then we can discuss any supposed genetic differences with more clarity.

Right now, women and minorities are pushed in certain directions and dissuaded from others. Ask any woman in the STEM field with the amount of unique bullshit she needs to put up with that her male counterparts just don't ever see. Ask any black scientist how often he or she was told to pursue sports over science--the disparity of social influence between groups is massive, some might even say so large that people live in entirely different worlds. Let's get everyone in the same world before we talk about genetics.
 
Institutional Racism - Any action by a government, intentional or unintentional, that is based on race or skin color and that subordinates an individual or group based on skin color or race is racism.

Affirmative Action - a program designed to benefit some groups of people based entirely on the color of their skin.
 
heatlesssun said:
The nature of black existence in America has long been full of conflict and controversy centuries before anyone one of us was born. Sure blacks have some bad feeling about that, but so do an awful lot of white folks that seem to want to put it all on minorities these days. What a some whites want to call white guilt, I call white amnesia. The institutions of slavery and legal racism in this weren't exactly something blacks had a lot of say in for most of this country's history.
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That changed. But that's not enough it will never be enough, because if it were black people would've nothing to complain about. Same thing with women: they get most of the degrees today, but still say they're oppressed. They may take 99% of the jobs and that still wouldn't be enough.

heatlesssun said:
So I'm not blaming anyone alive for anything, but I'm not going to stand for anyone pointing fingers at me either. I'm just trying to live my life, work, be self-reliant and all of that. I am no more responsible for racism or being a bigot that anyone else here .
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No one said you are. You're the one arguing that all whites carry the burden of racism even when they did nothing.

I am from a country where no one can really say they're black or white. Even though my skin is white, I have black relatives. My wife have a brown skin, her mother is kind of yellow, but they both have black curly hair. Her father had blue eyes and a mother who was black. It shouldn't matter, right? But it does. And that's why racism will never end until we get rid of this bullshit.
 
Ducman69 said:
Are you really not sure? For the last two decades at the very least, the liberal public school system has been trying to instill a sense of guilt among white males, which have been prescribed as the underlying root of all of societies problems. And when you stand back and review the facts impartially, you have to agree they do make a valid case, and the world probably would be a much better place without them. Look at Detroit, Jackson, Miami, and Birmingham for example; have you ever seen greater pillars of success propping up this great nation, lending testimony to the great family values and parenting skills, fiscal discipline with wise investments, and commitment to academic excellence that serves as an example to all who hope to achieve prominence as as a community, with immensely valuable real estate thanks to the caring and respectful nature of these communities? They simply prove without a shadow of a doubt that with a culture of enthusiasm for self-improvement by hard work and self-reliance, anything is possible without a white majority and oppressive leadership poisoning the well of prosperity.

In any case, I think we can all agree that equality is far more important than equal opportunity, and that the ends always justify the means.
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LOL. That sums it up nicely.
 
Let's face it, black people and women could never have created Apple and probably never will. All this grousing after the fact is pointless.
 
heatlesssun said:
So most blacks aren't as qualified as whites for these jobs but when they are qualified now that have an unfair advantage because they are black? This is why a lot of blacks just throw up their hands. Even when we play by the rules, it's still not good enough.
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Whatever advantage blacks have over whites during the qualification process is quickly offset by perpetual racism that still exists in this country whether you see it or not.
 
Its almost as if people / genders really aren't equal, that they have strengths/weaknesses. But no, they must all be social constructs. All of them. Right?
 
dmonkey said:
Yes, I know, the facts are truly astounding.
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they_see_me_trollin-318957.jpg
 
McFry said:
Whatever advantage blacks have over whites during the qualification process is quickly offset by perpetual racism that still exists in this country whether you see it or not.
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Most people wouldn't care if you brought them a one-eye alien that smells like shit if the guy is qualified to do the job for the right price.

People are so quick to say that business are amoral, but when it comes to hiring practices suddenly they have very strict conduct codes, and of course, they are all hand crafted to "oppress" the minorities.
 
kbrickley said:
There is definitely a sociological element at play ... in elementary school boys and girls have comparable abilities in math and science (it is as they mature that sociological pressures start to break them apart) ... I think we can argue that female scientists (like Marie Curie) are not biological flukes but sociological ones (they buck the trends of what is considered acceptable for women)

There are two main differences between men and women that are biological ... men can be physically stronger than women because of differing bone and muscle structures and the presence of testosterone ... women can have babies ... brain wise there are slight differences between them, but none that would make a man a better engineer than a women
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Actually not true. Elementary school children may have similar abilities in math in science because children at that age are largely concrete thinkers and only develop the ability to think abstractly as they grow older. You can research Jean Piaget to verify this is true.

The idea that there is little difference between men and women is (IMO) a radical theory advanced by radical feminists and can hardly be considered serious by rational thinkers. There is so much evidence to the contrary...
 
McFry said:
Whatever advantage blacks have over whites during the qualification process is quickly offset by perpetual racism that still exists in this country whether you see it or not.
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If you understand just how itchy of a trigger finger they have on that race card, you too wouldn't want to hire them. I've yet to see a single one who didn't at least THINK about it despite poor work performance being the leading cause of why people just don't want them around. Racism will always exist. Why? Because if you went outside more often, you'd see racism is far more prevalent amongst non-white nationalities. They're far better at hiding it.
 
thejokker said:
Actually not true. Elementary school children may have similar abilities in math in science because children at that age are largely concrete thinkers and only develop the ability to think abstractly as they grow older. You can research Jean Piaget to verify this is true.

The idea that there is little difference between men and women is (IMO) a radical theory advanced by radical feminists and can hardly be considered serious by rational thinkers. There is so much evidence to the contrary...
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Most men don't even make good engineers ... I don't buy into the theory that the sausagefest we have in the engineering ranks is strictly biological ... scientists and engineers are genetically superior to the normal population (that I would agree to) but I don't think it is a matter of race or gender ... there are a limited number of us (of both genders and many races) who possess the superior genetics and upbringing to be engineers and scientists (and then there is the rest of the society with their normal and inferior genetics) ... that is the truth, not man vs woman or race vs race ;)
 
TFchris said:
Seeing how over half the Ph.D (STEM) candidates in America are foreign born (mainly Asian), and how the American education system for k-12 is like today, I'll be willing to bet Asians will be taking over America's industries within the next 20 or so years lol
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They have bene taking over for the last twenty years as well...look at how well their industry is doing.
 
nekrosoft13 said:
so what are the other 2 percent?
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That is a...good question. Unless someone made a huge gaffe they can't be transgender, because a trans person would identify according to the gender that they've already wanted to be so that's out. Hmm, Hermaphrodites perhaps? Lizard people? :confused:
 
Does this count the workers at the Foxconn plants? I imagine there's fewer white males there. Isn't that Apple's 'work force' as well?
 
Dark Shade said:
So why is it when Foxconn workers commit suicide, it's Apple's fault? Or is that just the [H] version of the report?
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Apple's mistreatment of their contractors/slaves is a separate issue since they are not counted as Apple employees. We could compromise to count them as 3/5'ths an employee for representation purposes if it will preserve our union as a forum.
 
Dark Shade said:
So why is it when Foxconn workers commit suicide, it's Apple's fault? Or is that just the [H] version of the report?
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Apple, Sony and Microsoft all use Foxconn to build their electronics on the cheap so all should share the blame for poor working conditions.
As major companies in the international market, they should find an alternative for manufacturing instead of continuing to feed the monster.
 
Falling Anvil said:
That is a...good question. Unless someone made a huge gaffe they can't be transgender, because a trans person would identify according to the gender that they've already wanted to be so that's out. Hmm, Hermaphrodites perhaps? Lizard people? :confused:
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2% of 98000 is a lot of herm's
 
xIronCrossx said:
And this pertains to me how? My point is that not everyone deserves to be judged/punished based on actions of others. No one in my family had anything to do with slavery (I'm from Germany), but because I am white I would still most likely have been viewed the same by your father. I could understand why, but that still doesn't make it right. Again, my point is that people tend to generalize way too much and is where a lot of racism comes into play.
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Fine, you're not individually culpable. That said, you moved to a country where the state is absolutely culpable for centuries of slavery, and another century of brutal repression, institutionalized racism, etc. As we the people make up the state, we then have joint liability for these actions. While we've made strides, we're still not there yet. Moore's Law doesn't apply to social change and justice; just 50 years ago we were siccing dogs and lynching blacks.

collegeboy69us said:
Want to get more black/brown/yellow/purple/rainbow people into tech firms? Put the money in education, you build from the ground up. It's like saying "hey let's add a 50,000 square foot mansion on top of our 100 story skyscraper" Just... no.

education and infrastructure -- that's what you need, the pieces fall into place after that.
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What the hell do you think we're talking about? That's exactly what we're saying. We're not saying, go pick up random <minority here> off a street corner and put them to work at Apple. What we're saying is, representation is nowhere near what the population is; while it will likely never be exactly proportional, nor should it, it is indicative of the vast problems we still have in equality of opportunity. That starts early on in education, nutrition, etc.

And honestly, as a white male, I'm so tired of the new white male crying game over speaking honestly about issues other genders and races have. Maybe you're not individually responsible, although seeing some of the comments in this thread, doubtful; but if you're not, then just STFU and allow people to work through real problems. Similarly to a mention to Jezebel in another thread as "feminazis"; meanwhile, every story written by a female writer has rape .gifs put into the comments. Clearly, everyone is making it all up in a conspiracy against the white man, and we have it so damn tough. :rolleyes:
 
SGA76 said:
Apple, Sony and Microsoft all use Foxconn to build their electronics on the cheap so all should share the blame for poor working conditions.
As major companies in the international market, they should find an alternative for manufacturing instead of continuing to feed the monster.
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A fine sentiment, but the real question is whether consumers will be willing to pay higher prices. I really don't think so.
 
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