Don't Want to Burn to Death Edition

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Don't Want to Burn to Death Edition

If you do not want to be left behind as a nifty pile of charcoal briquettes. (Our $5 word of the day!) You will surely want to know that your Tesla Model S now comes optionally equipped with a super duper Titanium Underbody Shield. Elon does point out that no Tesla owners have been burned to death yet.

With a track record of zero deaths or serious, permanent injuries since our vehicles went into production six years ago, there is no safer car on the road than a Tesla. The addition of the underbody shields simply takes it a step further.
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On the other hand, it seems as though Lenova is pretty sure you will burn to death if YOU are set on fire by its batteries.

Recalled battery packs have one of the following part numbers starting with the fourth digit in a long series of numbers and letters printed on a white sticker below the bar code on the battery pack: 42T4695, 42T4711, 42T4798, 42T4804, 42T4812, 42T4822, 42T4828, 42T4834, 42T4840 and 42T4890.
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No injuries reported as of yet. But if you are set on fire by either a battery or a car, you could certainly burn to death. This editor would like to point out that using a Lenova battery while riding in a Tesla would likely double your chances of burning to death.
 
Rather have the don't want to burn to death edition over the call of duty edition jeep :)
 
I'd take a COD Jeep, as long as I can debadge it and replace the seats. I lust after those bumpers, D44 front and lockers.
 
I'd still take the Tesla, don't want to burn to death edition or not. Pretty much GMs entire lineup is, I want to save money but possibly burn to death.
 
OMG those Tesla's are deathtraps. Just look at this list of people who have died or been seriously injured in them:
 
maverikv said:
OMG those Tesla's are deathtraps. Just look at this list of people who have died or been seriously injured in them:
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The problem isn't that a lot of people have died, its that the Tesla's on fire, crazy fire that firefighters can't even manage to put out without special equipment and massive effort, per mile is very high for that class of expensive high end vehicle.

Gasoline powered vehicles burn ALL the time, but brand new low mileage professionally maintained luxury vehicles sure as hell don't burn at this rate when you compare how many miles these vehicles have racked up.

They have safety issues to address with these battery packs, there is no bullshitting your way around the issue.

Trust me, I've seen a bird's lipo burst into flames. There's no putting them out easily, you basically just have to wait for it to burn itself out. A shame those A123 batteries with nano-technology that was supposed to solve this problem haven't seen widespread distribution. Whatever happened to them? Heard they were bought by the chinese and then nothing.

watch
 
What if I was riding in a Nissan Leaf with a Lenova (sort of rhymes with SuperNova) battery?
 
Ducman69 said:
The problem isn't that a lot of people have died, its that the Tesla's on fire, crazy fire that firefighters can't even manage to put out without special equipment and massive effort, per mile is very high for that class of expensive high end vehicle.

Gasoline powered vehicles burn ALL the time, but brand new low mileage professionally maintained luxury vehicles sure as hell don't burn at this rate when you compare how many miles these vehicles have racked up.

They have safety issues to address with these battery packs, there is no bullshitting your way around the issue.

Trust me, I've seen a bird's lipo burst into flames. There's no putting them out easily, you basically just have to wait for it to burn itself out. A shame those A123 batteries with nano-technology that was supposed to solve this problem haven't seen widespread distribution. Whatever happened to them? Heard they were bought by the chinese and then nothing.

watch
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The Tesla car fire rate is less than a third of the overall car fire rate. And the title of this thread involves "Burn To Death" which is funny since it has never happened.
 
maverikv said:
The Tesla car fire rate is less than a third of the overall car fire rate. And the title of this thread involves "Burn To Death" which is funny since it has never happened.
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Put down the koolaid and suck on some reality juice:
Tesla has been comparing the rate its Model S catches fire (1 in 6,333 so far) with the rate with which cars in general catch fire (1 in 1,350 per year). But these figures are really comparing apples to oranges. Only four percent of vehicle fires are caused by collisions—the rest are largely the result of mechanical and electrical failures, which isn’t surprising when you remember that a large fraction of the cars on the road are old and wearing out.

When you look at the number of fires in collisions, (the numbers come from here and here) it comes to one in 32,603 registered vehicles. That’s far less frequent than one fire per 6,333 Model S’s.
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Modern day horse and buggy crowd is blowing things out of proportion again, pure sensationalism.

Fact is this car's quite over-engineered from a safety standpoint, it got the highest rating for safety by the NHTSA.

In the event of a potential fire the car even alerts the driver in advance to evacuate. Odds of "dying" in a truck (hydroplaning, flipping over, catching fire, etc) are much higher.
 
But look at the early stats on fires. Its five times as likely to burst into flames in even mild impacts than the average car (and the average car includes vehicles that were designed decades ago that have a couple hundred thousand miles on them that are low budget vehicles that historically aren't as safe and are rusty or modified and so forth), and when it bursts into flames, it does it with tremendous authority.

Fisker Karma is showing the same concerns with more than a dozen burst into an inferno when they were, get this, subjected to WATER.... Yes, water caused parked non-running vehicles to be completely obliterated, not something you usually have a problem with on an ICE.

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And its all fine and dandy if you have a massive inferno that even submerging the vehicle in a pool of water won't put out (firefighters must LOVE these battery packs), but what happens when it bursts into flames in your garage and you can't get close enough to pull it out or and firefighter hoses can't put it out?

fisker4.jpg


That's certainly a burn-to-death risk.
 
Infinitely more people burn to death in gasoline based cars (do the math, kids). I have no intention of buying a Tesla, but for a lot of communters it makes great sense. I love how people are drinking the propaganda Kool-Aid from the other automotive companies though.
 
Mr. K6 said:
Infinitely more people burn to death in gasoline based cars (do the math, kids).
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More people die from bicycle related accidents than do people juggling chainsaws. I would wager that the per-minute activity of juggling chainsaws is slightly more risky than riding a bicycle though. Gotta compare apples to apples bro.
 
Having watched two normal cars burn in a parking lt where I was working, the fire department didn't try to put ether out since nothing was around them aside from some trees they were hosing down. Once the cars are fully engulfed, the situation looks pretty damn hopeless no matter what the energy source.
 
Ducman69 said:
More people die from bicycle related accidents than do people juggling chainsaws. I would wager that the per-minute activity of juggling chainsaws is slightly more risky than riding a bicycle though. Gotta compare apples to apples bro.
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Do you have any numbers to counter mine or are you just talking out of your ass? Because that's what seems to be going on here.
 
ocellaris said:
Having watched two normal cars burn in a parking lt where I was working, the fire department didn't try to put ether out since nothing was around them aside from some trees they were hosing down. Once the cars are fully engulfed, the situation looks pretty damn hopeless no matter what the energy source.
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Automotive fires are a bitch to put out (plastics, gasoline, oil, fluids, etc.), it's easier just to let them burn out if everyone is safe.
 
Mr. K6 said:
Do you have any numbers to counter mine or are you just talking out of your ass? Because that's what seems to be going on here.
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I'm a Tesla fan and not concerned about the fire issue, but he seems to have put up convincing numbers. You're comparing the absolute number of vehicle fires and the rate of total vehicle fires, where he is showing the rate of Tesla fires and the rate of vehicle fires in collisions, where Tesla seems to perform poorly compared to the general population.
 
Ducman69 said:
Put down the koolaid and suck on some reality juice:
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0 Deaths, 0 injuries. Reality juice is delicious. Don't be a luddite. it's the safest car on the road. And they just made it even safer, just in case a steel pipe punctures the thick steel plate under your car at high speed, because these freak accidents that nobody was hurt in and you can count on one hand resulted in more headlines than the 200,000 car fires in the US this year combined.
 
TwistedAegis said:
I'm a Tesla fan and not concerned about the fire issue, but he seems to have put up convincing numbers. You're comparing the absolute number of vehicle fires and the rate of total vehicle fires, where he is showing the rate of Tesla fires and the rate of vehicle fires in collisions, where Tesla seems to perform poorly compared to the general population.
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The point is it's a trick question. The Tesla just came out. Proving anything with any reasonable power will take years of data to compare to the years of data we have on conventional automotives. The whole point is that it's too early to tell until we get more data. However, the melodramatic "you're all gonna burn to death!" is as of yet unfounded. Here's a decent article that considers the statistics behind this and discusses them in the vernacular: http://www.technologyreview.com/vie...fires-are-more-frequent-in-the-tesla-model-s/
 
Its a new untested technology, so of course it is going to be looked at with a microscope.

When a 1992 Ford Taurus has an electrical fire that causes a bit of smoke when a loom shorts because the owner popped in a higher rated fuse since the previous ones popped twice, there's no mystery and there's nothing news-worthy.

When several brand new very expensive vehicles using an unproven new technology over a short time period burst into glorious infernos that would singe even Vulcan's eyebrows, its going to raise some safety concerns.

And we're not talking about batteries in general, as there are a crapton of NiMH hybrids out on the roads, its the plugin lithium powered ones, especially the all electric ones that have concerns with the heat produced and puncture issues that create uncontrollable fires.

If it were me, I'd certainly have a Class-D fire extinguisher in the garage. If you can afford a Tesla, then a $500 fire extinguisher shouldn't be an issue.
 
Burning to death: Blast from the past edition.

Kyle posting news like this reminds me of the good ol days.
 
Only idiots and charlatans point to a fire safety record of a car with low production numbers and short history compared to the enormous number of cars of varying ages out there.
 
Aluisious said:
Only idiots and charlatans point to a fire safety record of a car with low production numbers and short history compared to the enormous number of cars of varying ages out there.
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I agree, but I would also add the battery tech will get better and safer.
 
Ducman69 said:
The problem isn't that a lot of people have died, its that the Tesla's on fire, crazy fire that firefighters can't even manage to put out without special equipment and massive effort, per mile is very high for that class of expensive high end vehicle.

Gasoline powered vehicles burn ALL the time, but brand new low mileage professionally maintained luxury vehicles sure as hell don't burn at this rate when you compare how many miles these vehicles have racked up.

They have safety issues to address with these battery packs, there is no bullshitting your way around the issue.

Trust me, I've seen a bird's lipo burst into flames. There's no putting them out easily, you basically just have to wait for it to burn itself out. A shame those A123 batteries with nano-technology that was supposed to solve this problem haven't seen widespread distribution. Whatever happened to them? Heard they were bought by the chinese and then nothing.

watch
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Actually the proper method (according to Tesla themselves) is to extinguish the fire with.. *(wait for it)... water. And I quote, "If the high voltage battery becomes involved in a fire [...] use large amounts of water to cool the battery."

Luxury automobiles catch fire more often than gasoline cars. Have you heard of the Ferrari 458? The Tesla Model S has fewer fires per capita than gas cars and in these fires no people were injured. The fire took more to even be visible than the time required to clear the vehicle and remove belongings. The monitoring system also alerted the driver and passengers to exit immediately and allowed a safe exit after comfortably pulling onto the shoulder. Once the fire was underway the flames were deflected away from the cabin, ensuring that even if the passengers had been rendered unconscious it would've likely been a highly survivable situation. (This is by design.)

The Model S does not use Lithium Polymer batteries. It uses a Lithium-Nickel-Cobalt-Aluminum Oxide chemistry and the pack is both watercooled and compartmentalized into sixteen distinct areas. In a fire only one area should burn, which is seemingly what has happened in the very few fires noted to date.
 
Ducman69 said:
But look at the early stats on fires. Its five times as likely to burst into flames in even mild impacts than the average car (and the average car includes vehicles that were designed decades ago that have a couple hundred thousand miles on them that are low budget vehicles that historically aren't as safe and are rusty or modified and so forth), and when it bursts into flames, it does it with tremendous authority.

Fisker Karma is showing the same concerns with more than a dozen burst into an inferno when they were, get this, subjected to WATER.... Yes, water caused parked non-running vehicles to be completely obliterated, not something you usually have a problem with on an ICE.

tumblr_mcqdxhRdhV1qb8s23.jpg


And its all fine and dandy if you have a massive inferno that even submerging the vehicle in a pool of water won't put out (firefighters must LOVE these battery packs), but what happens when it bursts into flames in your garage and you can't get close enough to pull it out or and firefighter hoses can't put it out?

fisker4.jpg


That's certainly a burn-to-death risk.
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The Fisker Karma has had a myriad of trouble since it's debut. The Model S on the other hand went through seemingly far more qualification.

For example the 'S was tested by the NHSTA in various "mild impact" or worse situations afterwhich none of the donor cars caught fire. In fact I frequent many of the Tesla owner forums and many folks have had MAJOR accidents. No fires from those accidents yet that I'm aware of, save the tiny complement of fires we've all seen on TV or YouTube. And the Model S doesn't seem to have the Karma's issues with submersion in water, either. In fact (as I've previously pointed out) the recommended firefighting method is to douse the car in as much water as possible. Neither has this contingency been overlooked though - the manual warns that submersion in water will disable the powertrain for safety.

The 'S is extremely safe.
 
Wierdo said:
Modern day horse and buggy crowd is blowing things out of proportion again, pure sensationalism.

Fact is this car's quite over-engineered from a safety standpoint, it got the highest rating for safety by the NHTSA.

In the event of a potential fire the car even alerts the driver in advance to evacuate. Odds of "dying" in a truck (hydroplaning, flipping over, catching fire, etc) are much higher.
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The system detects a battery malfunction and tells them to come to a stop, the fact the fire triggers this is fortunate for the drivers.

And like was said a distortion of the statistics was done to defend Tesla comparing the safety record of a fleet of cars no more than 6 months old to all other cars which has a huge percentage of decade old rust buckets.
 
Ah the joy of the safety argument..

News flash, The car is only as safe as the moron driving it. So given the price of the car and those that can actually afford it, the moron percentage is notably lower. Pull stats on cars that sit squarely in the same market and its probably on par with the rest of them.

So that all said. I'll give up my Gas car for a hippy mobile that produces more pollution in the long run anyhow when gas hits around $20/gal...possibly. Then again depending on inflation that might still be reasonable and I'll probably keep it anyhow. Personally I rather prefer actually being able to drive 400 miles, only stopping for 3 minutes and then driving another 400. Until Electrics are as Light and as Efficient as their IC counterparts, I'll never even consider one.
 
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