iPhone Scam That Targets The Poor

sfsuphysics said:
Wait so the "victims" are paid $100 to sign the contracts but the "scammer" keeps the phone? I'm sorry, hard to feel sorry for that level of stupidity.
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Sounds like desperation to me, not stupidity. Damn, you're arrogant.
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
IANAL but it would seem that for the police to get involved the party being scammed would need to file a complaint.
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In the article it says one of the people defrauded did, but the police called it "unfounded" (what?!) and said it was a civil matter. Right, because you're going to be able to get some scammer into small claims court. And because police never get involved in civil matters in the first place. :rolleyes:

The sad thing about our current system of law is that it can be used to justify nearly any action by an officer, either getting involved or not wanting to.
 
This is normal American business today. My opinion is more things are scams than legit. Just how it is when white collar crime penalties are soft. I'd say it's the new normal... and that says a lot about our society.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Wait so the "victims" are paid $100 to sign the contracts but the "scammer" keeps the phone? I'm sorry, hard to feel sorry for that level of stupidity.

Hey I'll give you $500 to sign this contract for car payments, don't worry man you can cancel the contract at any time. Thanks, Bye! *Varroooom*
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The article claims to go after poor unfortunate people who need cash. I say they're a bunch of morons who need a phone they clearly can't afford. Worst yet, it's not like they'll ever use the phone besides to try and pretend they aren't broke and living off ramen noodles. But hey, you need that quad core Apple CPU for facebook and sexting. Fucking!!!

Worst yet, it's not Apples fault or the employees. Just dumb people getting prayed on by someone obviously smarter than them.
 
Ashbringer said:
The article claims to go after poor unfortunate people who need cash. I say they're a bunch of morons who need a phone they clearly can't afford. Worst yet, it's not like they'll ever use the phone besides to try and pretend they aren't broke and living off ramen noodles. But hey, you need that quad core Apple CPU for facebook and sexting. Fucking!!!

Worst yet, it's not Apples fault or the employees. Just dumb people getting prayed on by someone obviously smarter than them.
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A lot of venom for someone that clearly didn't read the article. They don't keep the phones, the scammer does and resells them. Further, it's clear Apple employees are complicit, watching a homeless person sign 10+ contracts in front of them, then handing the phones directly to the scammer. Apple corporate, when contacted, didn't even believe this was an issue. Sprint, on the other hand, clearly does the right thing with multiple private investigators on the case.

But yes, they're poor so obviously we Should Not Pass Go, go directly to hate them because if they're poor, they obviously deserve it.
 
Ashbringer said:
The article claims to go after poor unfortunate people who need cash. I say they're a bunch of morons who need a phone they clearly can't afford. Worst yet, it's not like they'll ever use the phone besides to try and pretend they aren't broke and living off ramen noodles. But hey, you need that quad core Apple CPU for facebook and sexting. Fucking!!!

Worst yet, it's not Apples fault or the employees. Just dumb people getting prayed on by someone obviously smarter than them.
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Did you not actually hear how the scam works? The homeless people aren't keeping the phones or trying to look rich. They turn them over to a scammer who sells them for full price. The scammer is using the poor people for their credit to get free or very cheap phones, then leaving the poor people with the bill and bad credit.
 
Sounds like desperation to me, not stupidity. Damn, you're arrogant.
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What have they got to be desperate about?

I mean these are people who are already "comfortable with their conditions", they are on the bottom rung, they're isn't anyplace lower to fall to.

As for the police response, I'd have to say they see it all the way I see it. They see a homeless guy who is doing the kind of shit homeless guys will do. They see someone who is willing to sign off on a debt they will never have to pay, give away the phone for a small financial boost, and do so gladly if they think the fix is in with the clerk who is being paid not to run a credit check and turn a blind eye and just sell the phone and pretend the customer is legit.

The cops are not going to run this homeless dude in on fraud charges when he ain't got no money for a fine and no one will put up his bail. They are just saving the tax payers some money.
 
lcpiper said:
What have they got to be desperate about?

I mean these are people who are already "comfortable with their conditions", they are on the bottom rung, they're isn't anyplace lower to fall to.

As for the police response, I'd have to say they see it all the way I see it. They see a homeless guy who is doing the kind of shit homeless guys will do. They see someone who is willing to sign off on a debt they will never have to pay, give away the phone for a small financial boost, and do so gladly if they think the fix is in with the clerk who is being paid not to run a credit check and turn a blind eye and just sell the phone and pretend the customer is legit.

The cops are not going to run this homeless dude in on fraud charges when he ain't got no money for a fine and no one will put up his bail. They are just saving the tax payers some money.
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That and they'd probably have a hard time proving it's a criminal matter and not a civil matter. And cops don't get involved in civil or small claims stuff.
 
A lot of venom for someone that clearly didn't read the article. They don't keep the phones, the scammer does and resells them. Further, it's clear Apple employees are complicit, watching a homeless person sign 10+ contracts in front of them, then handing the phones directly to the scammer. Apple corporate, when contacted, didn't even believe this was an issue. Sprint, on the other hand, clearly does the right thing with multiple private investigators on the case.
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Jesus it's a banner day at the [H] when TwistedAegis and I see things anywhere near the same. Someone grab a screeny for the archives :D
 
Apple corporate, when contacted, didn't even believe this was an issue.
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I don't think Apple cares because I think these phones belong to the carrier and not Apple, Apples not taking a lose, the carrier or 3rd party reseller is.
 
Apple corporate, when contacted, didn't even believe this was an issue.
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I don't think Apple cares because I think these phones belong to the carrier and not Apple, Apples not taking a lose, the carrier or 3rd party reseller is.
 
Like people sexting isn't an Apple issue? They've gotten into stupider issues than this.

The problem with this though is... aren't the employees involved Apple employees at the Apple store? Seems like it should be an Apple problem.

In any case, this is pretty messed up, but scams usually are.
 
lcpiper said:
Jesus it's a banner day at the [H] when TwistedAegis and I see things anywhere near the same. Someone grab a screeny for the archives :D
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I'm pretty sure we agreed in another thread, but we were so used to otherwise we were reading the opposite point than was intended. (Gov't spying = ~83% thread). ;)
 
If it's not illegal then it isnt a scam since both parties agree to it.

Party A gets paid for their signature and Party B keeps phone. It's up to Party A to be sure wtf they are signing.
 
BettiePage said:
If it's not illegal then it isnt a scam since both parties agree to it.

Party A gets paid for their signature and Party B keeps phone. It's up to Party A to be sure wtf they are signing.
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Both parties hold liability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misrepresentation#Criteria_for_Misrepresentation said:
Misrepresentation is a concept in contract law referring to a false statement of fact made by one party to another party, which has the effect of inducing that party into the contract. For example, under certain circumstances, false statements or promises made by a seller of goods regarding the quality or nature of the product that the seller has may constitute misrepresentation. A finding of misrepresentation allows for a remedy of rescission and sometimes damages depending on the type of misrepresentation.
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he scammer is using the poor people for their credit to get free or very cheap phones, then leaving the poor people with the bill and bad credit.
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Which they will never ever pay and may never know of its existence. The credit card company is the one being scammed here and those who keep a balance on their credit cards.
 
shatterstar said:
This is not an Apple issue but rather a retail store issue.
It does not matter if it is a Apple phone or not it can be done with any phone.



You do realize if you cancel the contract you have to return the phone / pay for the phone in which case it will be more that the $200 they were offered.
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No, it's an Apple issue. This is clearly in their policy
Consumers Only
The Apple Store sells and ships products to end-user customers only. You may not purchase products at the Apple Store for resale, and we reserve the right to refuse or cancel your order if we suspect you are doing so. And we’re pretty good at figuring that out…
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Apple should have said that they were going to be resolving these issues instead of giving their PR bullshit of "security".
Oh and this
Apple products are subject to U.S. and foreign export control laws and regulations and must be purchased, sold, exported, re-exported, transferred, and used in compliance with such export laws and regulations.
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They need to shut down these phones, eat the losses themselves, and restore those people's credit.

If they don't, they're a predatory company.
 
BettiePage said:
If it's not illegal then it isnt a scam since both parties agree to it.

Party A gets paid for their signature and Party B keeps phone. It's up to Party A to be sure wtf they are signing.
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All while in violation of US Exports Law. No, shit doesn't fly. It was intent to deceive and to violate US Export laws.
 
My best friend got scammed by a girl like this except he got nothing out of it. She did not pay him a cent. She pretended to be the love of his life and said she just needed some help to get a phone while she waited for her student loan to come and then she would pay back. She then sold the phone and he was stuck with the contract.

He realizes now he was so stupid but she made him fall for her and think they would be a couple. He didn't even get sex.
 
dagas said:
My best friend got scammed by a girl like this except he got nothing out of it. She did not pay him a cent. She pretended to be the love of his life and said she just needed some help to get a phone while she waited for her student loan to come and then she would pay back. She then sold the phone and he was stuck with the contract.

He realizes now he was so stupid but she made him fall for her and think they would be a couple. He didn't even get sex.
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Not even a handjob?
 
Kaitian said:
All while in violation of US Exports Law. No, shit doesn't fly. It was intent to deceive and to violate US Export laws.
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Export law? so call the FBI or other federal agency... but if they arent exporting it? I dont think Party B is selling it outside the US. But even if they are... I would hope our federal tax dollars are being spent more soundly that to stop this from happening. If they come across it sure, but to actively pursue this in an investigation?
 
BettiePage said:
Export law? so call the FBI or other federal agency... but if they arent exporting it? I dont think Party B is selling it outside the US. But even if they are... I would hope our federal tax dollars are being spent more soundly that to stop this from happening. If they come across it sure, but to actively pursue this in an investigation?
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Apple has an obligation to follow US Export Law even if they sold it to the consumer. It's still their product until the life of the contract is done with.
 
Must be some sort of credit default swap system in place for the manufacturers/carriers not to care about this scam. Someone somewhere down the line is getting screwed but it aint Apple/ATT.
 
dgz said:
Sounds like desperation to me, not stupidity. Damn, you're arrogant.
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No, not desperation. If someone was really that desperate for food they wouldn't be in a shelter. If the article said "they got the homeless people who were out back eating out a dumpster" then I might agree a bit more that it's desperation. Just because you're homeless doesn't mean every chance to make money is a desperate grab at salvation from the life they're in.

I still stand by my claim that they're stupid (or ignorant as all hell) or they're compliant with the "scam"

The other side of thing, can't Apple brick the phones since the user no longer is paying for the service?
 
sfsuphysics said:
No, not desperation. If someone was really that desperate for food they wouldn't be in a shelter. If the article said "they got the homeless people who were out back eating out a dumpster" then I might agree a bit more that it's desperation. Just because you're homeless doesn't mean every chance to make money is a desperate grab at salvation from the life they're in.

I still stand by my claim that they're stupid (or ignorant as all hell) or they're compliant with the "scam"

The other side of thing, can't Apple brick the phones since the user no longer is paying for the service?
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Uh, they're at a plasma donation center to get a pittance to sell their blood. But glad to know that sympathy is only when you're eating out of a dumpster; should you have a plate on a sidewalk, you're living the good life and should only be scorned should someone take advantage of you.
 
Unbelievable, every employee including the manager should be fired from that store. God I hate scumbags.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Uh, they're at a plasma donation center to get a pittance to sell their blood. But glad to know that sympathy is only when you're eating out of a dumpster; should you have a plate on a sidewalk, you're living the good life and should only be scorned should someone take advantage of you.
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The guy had a shaved head. Razors cost money. Priorities are out of whack...as with most people whining about what they don't have.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Uh, they're at a plasma donation center to get a pittance to sell their blood. But glad to know that sympathy is only when you're eating out of a dumpster; should you have a plate on a sidewalk, you're living the good life and should only be scorned should someone take advantage of you.
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He was on the way to a plasma donation center, obviously he was hard up for money, but was he necessarily homeless? Sure he didn't just have a drug problem? Or some other issue? And one lady needed some money to pay her rent. Only the first guy was identified as homeless.

And FYI, I never said I was sympathetic to a guy eating out of a dumpster either.
 
Not sure why some people keep pointing this back at Apple, Apple isn't the carrier, the carriers are Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint. They are the ones being scammed along with any credit institutions that may be involved.

As for Apple's TOS, that don't matter so much when you buy your IPhone through Sprint cause Sprint already paid Apple for that phone and now they are collecting their money back from the customer through the service contract. Now if you buy the phone from Apple at the Apple Store, then it's a different deal and Apple's TOS plays a stronger role and Apple has a greater say so. I mean really, how happy would Sprint be if Apple "bricked" one of their customer's phones for violating Apple's TOS? How is Sprint going to get their investment money back from a dude who has a "Bricked" phone? I don't think Apple will be bricking any phone that they didn't sell themselves to a customer.
 
mi7chy said:
The video is misleading because it's a scam that benefits both parties.
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Depends on how much your credit score hit and/or a lien/wage garnishment is worth to you. Obviously if you're homeless it doesn't matter at all but some of those people were just looking for a little extra cash to pay the rent and let their desperation get the best of them.

In the end its still a scam and that sort of behavior shouldn't be encouraged. Which is exactly what happens if you or the law or the participating corps 'look the other way' or make up excuses to diminish the severity of the scam.
 
sfsuphysics said:
He was on the way to a plasma donation center, obviously he was hard up for money, but was he necessarily homeless?
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Just because you aren't homeless doesn't mean you can't be hard up for cash.

When I was a kid we had a apartment room but I still had to dumpster dive for cans/scrap metal to recycle for lunch money and sometimes 'groceries' (ramen).

God forbid anyone got sick or the car broke. B-days were maybe a cupcake with a candle.

I'm seriously amazed some people don't understand that just because you aren't living on street=not desperately poor. I mean we had a fridge and a washing machine and all but one we got from Goodwill and the other was a sidewalk pick up.

Both stank, didn't last long, and were eventually replaced by more Goodwill/Salvation Army/sidewalk pick ups. These days you can just go on Craigslist and scan the free section from the library if you want. Even then though stuff like that doesn't mean you aren't poor. We never could afford college, healthcare, a decent house, and we'll probably never be able to retire.

Poverty, even the sort of poverty that at least allows you to afford a room somewhere, can set you back decades if not entirely fuck your life up.
 
So...
Now I know why Verizon is jacking up my Uncle's contract $20 a month, nothing he can do about it.
Funny, bastards can scam us all they want by not honoring their own contracts BUT someone breaks one with them.....
 
Not to sure about all the Apple=greed stuff, I mean, I am no apple fan, as a matter a fact I tend not to like most of what they produce, but this scam would work for any cell phone company, and is probably why they contacted att/sprint etc over it as well. The black eye Apple gave it self with this is that the people working at the Apple store going along with it (commission probably) and them taking no action, that is the bad side to this. I would hope even with out commenting, they at least do something about the people who work for their own store.
 
sfsuphysics said:
The other side of thing, can't Apple brick the phones since the user no longer is paying for the service?
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They dont need to, the phone has already been paid for but whatever institution issues these phone subsidies. The scary part is why dont they care? Are these phone backed by some seedy banker organization that passes off the losses to the taxpayer or something? Clearly they can't just let $436 in parts go to waste repeatedly, and I'm sure cellphone theft is probably rather high among college kids and other morons with abysmal credit that can still somehow get a cellphone subsidy and then say "lol fuck it" and stop paying.
 
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