Windows 8 Adoption Gaining Steam

I am just eagerly counting the days till MS pulls the plug on XP.
 
Ididar said:
Because, for some people, there is only black or white ... love or hate. There is nothing in between. There can be no "it is ok, except for a few points". They either love it or hate it. It is either a total failure or a massive success. They loved XP and hated Vista and in turn loved 7 and now hate 8. I have used everything from 3.0 to XP, Vista, Win7, and now Win8 and I never loved nor hated any of them. I had more grief moving from MSDOS and "launching" Windows to just pure Windows from launch than I did moving to Win8 or Vista. Vista I used for many years on a laptop I owned and never had a problem with it. The thing soldiered on until just a month ago when I got the Win8 Lenovo tablet and dock to replace it on the desk in the living room.
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Yawn, some of use used even early versions of Windows. Some of us even know what punch cards are...used many more OSes than listed. Just because one is critical of something does not mean they hate it. But you get labeled a hated should you dare to say anything negative. For many of us it is frustrating to watch Microsoft going in the wrong direction. To have those who defend their every move... even when it is clearly wrong.

Declining sales, people losing jobs are not a sign of they are doing well. We all want the same thing, just some see Windows 8 as a good solid first step towards the future while others see it as a blunder and wasted opportunity.

Windows 8 is leaner, meaner OS. If this is the only thing which mattered then it would be a success. The problem is most computers are fast enough so most consumers see little reason to spend more money just to learn a new UI, which will likely changed in a version or two anyways. SO why spend your money on Windows 8?

To me Microsoft could have easily done a much better job if they had focused on the road to get there versus the destination. If they had put the consumer first. Listened to the feedback. We would not be having this discussion as the core OS is mostly improved.
 
Ponder said:
How many write down, lost jobs must occur before fans admit Microsoft made a mistake.
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Always an empty an pointless cheap shot to assume that people who aprove of a product are brand fans.

Ponder said:
The Start Menu(UI changes) is just the start of the long list of errors made. It is just the most widely known and commented on.
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It is not just the start, it is literally nearly all the gripe people have. The rest are mostly tweaks.

Ponder said:
Anyways it is oddly true that it only requires a bit of effort on the consumers report to fix many UI complaints, but in all honest they should not have to...In the end the consumers has to spend money and time to get back to where they were.
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So it is when you buy a new pair of pants and have to have the legs adjusted. While the option could easily have been there (as I think it should have been; I am always in favor of more options), it is the company's choice, good or ill, to move their product forward in the direction they want. You can follow, take 30 secs to mod (yay for PC), move away or complain in the hopes they bend.

Ponder said:
Why would a consumer upgrade?
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Why would you upgrade ANYTHING? XP worked fine. So did 98SE. Why fix what is not broken? I work on a XP machine at the office. You woldn't believe the things we take for granted once you've moved onward. I can't even reposition my opened applications in the taskbar.

Ponder said:
Reminds me of when friends upgraded to Vista because they might as well learn the UI of the future. I said they will just change it a version or two anyways.
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And every subsequent version of windows has looked a lot more like Vista than XP. Aside from having problems because it was a major and not so well coded overhaul, Vista was a lot more fun to use than XP was. Then came 7, and now XP is slowly fading and few look back with nostalgia.

W8 was not a bad OS move, it was awful marketing. It was the "tablet OS", which caused automatic rejection. I looked at it with disgust, then I had a promotion with my long expired but still valid College email address and thought that for $15 I'd get my first legit OS in a douzen years and saw that all my fears were totally unjustified. It works well, has crashed less yet than any OS I have ever had and has done nothing but be faster and more organised while looking exactly like W7. Consumer-wise, there is no reason whatsoever to deliberatly try to get W7 over W8 when you get a new pc are upgrading from XP. This really is walking up to the salesman and saying "I want the slower, less futureproof copy for no reason please." You just look like you've spent too much time on reddit.
 
Windows 8 is only growing because consumers don't have a choice when buying a new PC. They aren't able to easily change it themselves and end up living with it. The people I've spoken to in person think Windows 8 is ok but it's not as good as Windows 7. Given the choice, free labor, and a free license they would be back to 7 in a heartbeat.
 
Ididar said:
I had more grief moving from MSDOS and "launching" Windows to just pure Windows from launch than I did moving to Win8 or Vista. Vista I used for many years on a laptop I owned and never had a problem with it. The thing soldiered on until just a month ago when I got the Win8 Lenovo tablet and dock to replace it on the desk in the living room.
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As much as I get called a fanboy I've never really had any love or hate for the Windows UI. My appreciation of Windows has always been about it's great 3rd party hardware and software support. So from that perspective 8 simply gives me more hardware and software support and allows me to use Windows on lightweight tablets and then move to more powerful devices when needed.
 
Ballmer was thrown out and w8 had much to do with it...so all this discussion if it is or isnt gaining steam...

isnt
 
ochadd said:
Windows 8 is only growing because consumers don't have a choice when buying a new PC. They aren't able to easily change it themselves and end up living with it. The people I've spoken to in person think Windows 8 is ok but it's not as good as Windows 7. Given the choice, free labor, and a free license they would be back to 7 in a heartbeat.
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How many people are gong to come in a say this ignorant statement in a row. Any consumer can go out and buy a mac or a chrome book right now in the stores. Any consumer is free to dig up an old copy of windows 7 and install it. If anything this day is the most free they have ever been. Nothing is new, every version of windows has quickly caused old versions to go off the shelves and was only available shortly after as a down grade option for enterprise systems. Lots of people reverted the UI of the beloved windows XP to windows 2000 and hated XP at the start. Lots of people who used windows 7 reverted the simple icons back to named task bar items. Nothing new there.

So what for 20 years you have been forced to upgrade to the latest windows. We didn't hear you saying the same thing when windows 7 was being sold.
 
grtitan said:
If all new PC's had an option at start up to select W7 or W8, I wonder how much higher the W8 adoption would be.
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For that matter if "Classic Start Menu" was a downloadable app in the Metro store, guess what the #1 app download - by a landslide - would be.
 
Ponder said:
Yawn, some of use used even early versions of Windows. Some of us even know what punch cards are...used many more OSes than listed. Just because one is critical of something does not mean they hate it. But you get labeled a hated should you dare to say anything negative.
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When people use words and phrases like "total failure" and "massive mistake" then those aren't criticisms, they're 0's and 1's. Right or wrong. No grey space. A criticism is talking about boot to desktop (being fixed) or the start menu, not about just labeling the whole OS as a failure. It has good features and bad. For some there are more bad than good. So be it. People need to say that, not just label it a massive failure and move on. If it really was a massive failure then MS would be losing tons of sales to OSX. Obviously that isn't happening, even with Apple at its popularity peak and having all the brand appeal it is likely to ever have.

I don't see anyone saying the operating system is perfect and nobody is defending Microsoft blindly. But, I have seen, on this very thread, the comments about the operating system being a total failure. In tech circles, it seems to be very popular to hate on Win8 right now so people feel free to go overboard in their commentary. Use a bit of exaggeration to try to make their point. It simply doesn't help the discussion when, realistically, the operating system could be "fixed" with a few tweaks. If MS included a boot to desktop AND a start menu most people's complaints would vanish in a heartbeat. Heck, most could do that now with Start8 or others like it but they would rather call the operating system a total failure.

To be honest, I wish they'd included a boot to desktop and start menu from day one but it doesn't make the OS a total failure for me. I don't miss it with the way I work (I rarely use the start menu) but I recognize some people had gotten very used to the start menu. On my gaming machine I just launch my games from the start screen and have control panel short-cutted on my taskbar in desktop mode since that's where it launches anyway. I could just short-cut it to the start menu but I haven't bothered. That gives me all the functionality I've ever needed from the start menu on my gaming machine.
 
rudy said:
How many people are gong to come in a say this ignorant statement in a row. Any consumer can go out and buy a mac or a chrome book right now in the stores. Any consumer is free to dig up an old copy of windows 7 and install it. If anything this day is the most free they have ever been. Nothing is new, every version of windows has quickly caused old versions to go off the shelves and was only available shortly after as a down grade option for enterprise systems. Lots of people reverted the UI of the beloved windows XP to windows 2000 and hated XP at the start. Lots of people who used windows 7 reverted the simple icons back to named task bar items. Nothing new there.

So what for 20 years you have been forced to upgrade to the latest windows. We didn't hear you saying the same thing when windows 7 was being sold.
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That statement can't be said enough. It's the truth as the customer sees it and that is what matters. The Metro UI is best seen as junkware like the other stuff we all uninstall from a new computer. Best to be removed and circumvented whenever possible.
 
DPI said:
For that matter if "Classic Start Menu" was a downloadable app in the Metro store, guess what the #1 app download - by a landslide - would be.
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Many if not most of the major Start Menu replacements are listed in the Windows Store, Classic Start 8 is one of them.
 
Ididar said:
I don't see anyone saying the operating system is perfect and nobody is defending Microsoft blindly. But, I have seen, on this very thread, the comments about the operating system being a total failure.
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Exactly. Saying Windows 8 is a total failure and the only reason why anyone is using it is because it comes preinstalled on most hardware is trying to have it both ways. If it were really a total failure why wouldn't OEMs just install a Linux distro on it and say "Look, it's got a Start Menu!" I know that some OEMs are installing Start Menu replacements on their devices but they don't seem to be selling any more Linux desktop PCs.
 
Dekarx said:
Always an empty an pointless cheap shot to assume that people who approve of a product are brand fans. /
Corrected spelling for you. No one said anything about brand fans. WE are talking simply about Microsoft making a mistake with Windows 8. It was a mistake, It was mentioned during beta and has been since. At what point will it be good enough to say that windows 8 was a mistake?

It was a marketing and design mistake to force users to switch to metro, versus asking them to switch. That is one of many mistakes made by Microsoft. SO what must happen for those still defending Windows 8 as a great choice for them to admit it was not a great choice?
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Ididar said:
I don't see anyone saying the operating system is perfect and nobody is defending Microsoft blindly. But, I have seen, on this very thread, the comments about the operating system being a total failure. In tech circles, it seems to be very popular to hate on Win8 right now so people feel free to go overboard in their commentary. Use a bit of exaggeration to try to make their point. It simply doesn't help the discussion when, realistically, the operating system could be "fixed" with a few tweaks. If MS included a boot to desktop AND a start menu most people's complaints would vanish in a heartbeat. Heck, most could do that now with Start8 or others like it but they would rather call the operating system a total failure.
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The problem is everyone has been debating this for over about two years. So we blame anyone we debate with all the past mistakes other have made. In the end we know this...

Microsoft tablet sales are reasonably bad to say the least. Windows 8 sales are reasonably disappointing. Enough so they decided they need a new direction and will retire current CEO. So at what point will people admit that Metro being forced on users was a mistake as mentioned when it first happened?

Windows 8 is lean and mean OS we all should be praising it(even if it is not really needed, like cars sometimes good enough is good enough), but in the end we are here all debating on who said what in the past. Since Day one only thing I have said is that Metro being force will hamper sales and adoption. That to break into tablets Microsoft needs to get into gear and invest wisely. Focus on investing in a solid backend. Help Metro apps buy once run everywhere.(development tools) Help consumers get digital media. Very easy game plan.

SO the question still stands at what point can we put windows 8 behind us and admit they made blunders and stop worrying about people wording things too strongly? In the end it was a mistake. Does it mater if it is a total mistake or massive mistake or just a mistake?

Two years on debating metro a UIAPI I actually like for its intended use, but then again it is not even my favorite tablet OS. I actually like WebOS best even if it was a flop so what do I know.
 
a lady that I am currently helping after she have recently purchased a new laptop equip with Win 8 wanted to downgrade to Win 7. Staples wanted to charge her $200 for the downgrade. I'm still trying to figure out how to get the downgrade license from the manufacture or M$.

I bet there are a lot more people in the same boat as her.
 
Don't get me wrong, I love Windows 8, but if you are just gaming and you already have Windows 7 there is no point to Windows 8 (except that it seems like you can get Windows 8 cheaper than Windows 7). Most of the gamers here have switched their main systems to Windows 8 and kept their LAN PCs on Windows 7.
 
Ponder said:
Dekarx said:
Always an empty an pointless cheap shot to assume that people who approve of a product are brand fans. /
Corrected spelling for you. No one said anything about brand fans. WE are talking simply about Microsoft making a mistake with Windows 8. It was a mistake, It was mentioned during beta and has been since. At what point will it be good enough to say that windows 8 was a mistake?

It was a marketing and design mistake to force users to switch to metro, versus asking them to switch. That is one of many mistakes made by Microsoft. SO what must happen for those still defending Windows 8 as a great choice for them to admit it was not a great choice?
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, Were there mistakes made in Windows 8? Yes. Is the idea behind Windows 8 a mistake. I don't think so. And Windows isn't a democracy, it is a commercial OS. Sure you want to please as many customers as possible but sometimes you have to make some choices that won't please everyone.

Microsoft chose to leverage there dominance on the desktop into other markets, knowing that their be blow back up it would probably get the ecosystem up and running faster because you really need new hardware and modern apps to get the most out of the new stuff, and I don't see how an off switch for the thing you need to build up ASAP would help.

And before this gets called a defense of Microsoft it's simply an explanation of the reasoning and it's not like many have said the same thing and even people that hate the new UI understand that Microsoft is leveraging its desktop dominance. At any rate there were risks involved however it went.
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scout007 said:
a lady that I am currently helping after she have recently purchased a new laptop equip with Win 8 wanted to downgrade to Win 7. Staples wanted to charge her $200 for the downgrade. I'm still trying to figure out how to get the downgrade license from the manufacture or M$.

I bet there are a lot more people in the same boat as her.
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Why not got to the Windows Store, find a Start Menu replacement in 5 minutes and save a bunch of money? But maybe she doesn't even realize that Windows 8 runs the same applications as 7 just the same. I have had a couple people think that, because they has heard about RT.

Microsoft did a very poor job on the education side of things, that's the biggest mistake they made in this release in my opinion.
 
Not sure how good that seems when a lot of systems foist Windows 8 on you, and those with options charge you $120 to change to Windows 7. So anybody getting such a machine would most likely just take the Windows 8 that's crammed up their arses, and get a cheaper version of Windows 7 to install themselves.

I hate the way Microsoft gets the market to adopt their OSs. By removing or monetizing choice. Which is a false choice because you wind up with Windows 8 anyway. Only way to have an actual real choice is to go [H]ard and build your own.
 
snowcrash said:
I just recently switched all my home PCs to Windows 8 after couple months of testing on my own main system. I found subjectively that W8 runs faster compared to W7. So add 5 more PCs to W8's market share.

I did, however, install Start8 and ModerMix on all 5 PCs. No Start Button and full screen app are deal breakers in my household. Extra $40 spent but worth it considering it only cost me $15 for each W8 license. I did try Classic Shell but it's ugly as heck and not as polished as Start8.
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Maybe you tried the stable version 3.6.8 of Classic Shell? Try 3.9.3 beta linked from the homepage and see if it changes your opinion. ;)
 
UrielDagda said:
Not sure how good that seems when a lot of systems foist Windows 8 on you, and those with options charge you $120 to change to Windows 7. So anybody getting such a machine would most likely just take the Windows 8 that's crammed up their arses, and get a cheaper version of Windows 7 to install themselves.
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Precisely. Or just stay with Windows 8 that's been crammed because they don't know how to install Windows 7 themselves -- which is most people. If you asked ten randoms in a retail store if they've ever installed Windows before, how many people would have - one, if any?

So all MS has done is bred resentment among captive buyers -- and when they see that same shitty multicolored tablet tile interface on Microsoft mobile devices they see on a commerical or walk by in a store, they scrunch up their faces like Ellen Degeneres and a potential mobile device sale never happens.

Ergo, precisely the opposite of the intended effect of forcing metro onto desktops is happening - which was originally to get people interested in the mobile devices and buying apps from the metro store.
 
DPI said:
Precisely. Or just stay with Windows 8 that's been crammed because they don't know how to install Windows 7 themselves -- which is most people. If you asked ten randoms in a retail store if they've ever installed Windows before, how many people would have - one, if any?
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As I said previously in this thread, if Windows 8 was really pissing off that many people there would be a massive swell of people purchasing MacBook Air's and other Apple products. Since that isn't really happening, with Apple at a peak of its popularity, then obviously it seems to me that people aren't THAT pissed off with Windows 8. With alternatives available they're still buying the Windows machine and continuing to use Windows. Most of them don't need it for anything more than web browsing and typing up a few documents so any operating system will do. They're not "captive" in the consumer market. They have choices. They're not jumping ship in mass quantities. All PC based sales have slowed ... long before Windows 8 ... because of mobile operating systems. Even when people saw Windows 8 coming they didn't rush out to buy machines with Windows 7 or we'd have seen a spike in sales.

There are lots of claims about how consumers feel about Windows 8 but few data points to support them.
 
Ididar said:
As I said previously in this thread, if Windows 8 was really pissing off that many people there would be a massive swell of people purchasing MacBook Air's and other Apple products. Since that isn't really happening, with Apple at a peak of its popularity, then obviously it seems to me that people aren't THAT pissed off with Windows 8. With alternatives available they're still buying the Windows machine and continuing to use Windows. Most of them don't need it for anything more than web browsing and typing up a few documents so any operating system will do. They're not "captive" in the consumer market. They have choices. They're not jumping ship in mass quantities. All PC based sales have slowed ... long before Windows 8 ... because of mobile operating systems. Even when people saw Windows 8 coming they didn't rush out to buy machines with Windows 7 or we'd have seen a spike in sales.

There are lots of claims about how consumers feel about Windows 8 but few data points to support them.
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So your counter to the argument that people dislike 8 because its different is that if it were true, they'd buy a mac, a vastly different and more expensive option :confused::confused:
 
ChedWick said:
So your counter to the argument that people dislike 8 because its different is that if it were true, they'd buy a mac, a vastly different and more expensive option :confused::confused:
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You do see a lot people that don't like Windows 8 talk a lot about going to a Mac or a lot of downgrading to Windows 7. There just doesn't seem to be much in the way of real evidence to suggest these things are occurring. In fact according to Apple Mac sales have been down ever quarter since the release of Windows 8.
 
Ididar said:
As I said previously in this thread, if Windows 8 was really pissing off that many people there would be a massive swell of people purchasing MacBook Air's and other Apple products. Since that isn't really happening, with Apple at a peak of its popularity, then obviously it seems to me that people aren't THAT pissed off with Windows 8. With alternatives available they're still buying the Windows machine and continuing to use Windows. Most of them don't need it for anything more than web browsing and typing up a few documents so any operating system will do. They're not "captive" in the consumer market. They have choices. They're not jumping ship in mass quantities. All PC based sales have slowed ... long before Windows 8 ... because of mobile operating systems. Even when people saw Windows 8 coming they didn't rush out to buy machines with Windows 7 or we'd have seen a spike in sales.

There are lots of claims about how consumers feel about Windows 8 but few data points to support them.
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I disagree that your average person disliking 8 would go to Apple. "Hey, here's an interface I don't understand... I'll go with another product that is more expensive and has an interface I also don't understand!"
heatlesssun said:
You do see a lot people that don't like Windows 8 talk a lot about going to a Mac or a lot of downgrading to Windows 7.
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Those "lot of people" are people on tech forums, your average tech forum dweller is in no way representative of your average tech buyer.
 
Ididar said:
As I said previously in this thread, if Windows 8 was really pissing off that many people there would be a massive swell of people purchasing MacBook Air's and other Apple products. Since that isn't really happening, with Apple at a peak of its popularity, then obviously it seems to me that people aren't THAT pissed off with Windows 8. With alternatives available they're still buying the Windows machine and continuing to use Windows. Most of them don't need it for anything more than web browsing and typing up a few documents so any operating system will do. They're not "captive" in the consumer market. They have choices. They're not jumping ship in mass quantities. All PC based sales have slowed ... long before Windows 8 ... because of mobile operating systems. Even when people saw Windows 8 coming they didn't rush out to buy machines with Windows 7 or we'd have seen a spike in sales.

There are lots of claims about how consumers feel about Windows 8 but few data points to support them.
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"Then why aren't people buying OSX" is a red herring. Not sure why keep bringing it up. There are a whole lot of longtime windows users - self included - that have been using it for years if not decades and already have software and intellectual investments made in it. OSX machines also tend to be more expensive -- so the student that only has $350-$500 to spend on a laptop obviously isn't going to be looking at Macs, but instead the Lenovo thing on sale.

Consumers backlash against Win8 era products isn't a claim and you're being intentionally blind or obtuse if you pretend it doesn't exist. Ballmer admitted he's resigning earlier than he had expected to. There's your data point. And Windows 7 is the first version of Windows in its history that has continued to *gain* marketshare after a successive version was released. And it continues to gain marketshare.
 
DPI said:
Consumers backlash against Win8 era products isn't a claim and you're being intentionally blind or obtuse if you pretend it doesn't exist.
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No one is saying that there isn't backlash, it's the degree of it that is being questioned. For some, and this has been bought up by plenty of folks, there's just nuance to the points some are making. It can't be that EVERYONE hates Windows 8. It can't be that NO ONE is using modern apps. 8 can't be a TOTAL disaster because it's selling and its market share is increasing. And the point that it's selling because it comes on new hardware is as it has ALWAYS been with Windows. 7, Vista, XP were all "forced" on people they same way and they didn't have the choices then but now somehow that's counted against 8 when its always a factor in Windows adoption.
 
heatlesssun said:
No one is saying that there isn't backlash, it's the degree of it that is being questioned. For some, and this has been bought up by plenty of folks, there's just nuance to the points some are making. It can't be that EVERYONE hates Windows 8. It can't be that NO ONE is using modern apps. 8 can't be a TOTAL disaster because it's selling and its market share is increasing. And the point that it's selling because it comes on new hardware is as it has ALWAYS been with Windows. 7, Vista, XP were all "forced" on people they same way and they didn't have the choices then but now somehow that's counted against 8 when its always a factor in Windows adoption.
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Lots of your reasoning is the Ford Model T line.

"You can have any color as long as its Black"

When is the last time you walked into a consumer store and saw a Windows 7 Install?
You will not because MS tied OEM hands with 8 SKU (discontinuation of 7) and thus OEM tied resellers with 8 SKU. So when A Herp Derp goes to buy PC at their local Wallmart, BestBuy they don't have much of a choice. Then also tell me how many people will know that OEM Pro License is entitled to Downgrade to 7? This is why 8 market share is rising. I always tell people to go online to purchase a PC if they want 7 but people are creatures of insta satisfaction or can't or are unable to purchase online. (Not to mention difficulties of installing 7 on a 8 machine)

I would love to see a Apple to Apple comparison (no pun intended) of a Identical Hardware siting side by side but each pc having Windows 7 vs Windows 8 installed and see what choice is made. If 8 is chosen 9 times out of 10 then I would agree 8 deserves the crown but if its the opposite then I would say 8 is a disaster.
MS will not give consumers that choice and MS is just gambling and hoping that if enough people are stuck with 8 with no alternative then we will make inroads. Its called market penetration look it up.

This is why people consider you a MS Shill because of you line of reasoning/logic as well as evidence is severely biased.
 
Wrench00 said:
This is why people consider you a MS Shill because of you line of reasoning/logic as well as evidence is severely biased.
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How is my logic biased when I am simply pointing out that what you and others are describing has ALWAYS been the case with Windows. When the new version comes out, that's what typically gets put on new retail machines. If the policy had been to have an option for a prior version of Windows on new retail machines, then there be a point. I just don't see the reasoning of pointing out a long standing policy that has helped EVERY version of Windows to gain market share.
 
Ididar said:
As I said previously in this thread, if Windows 8 was really pissing off that many people there would be a massive swell of people purchasing MacBook Air's and other Apple products.
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Disinterest by consumers, which started 1.5 years after Windows 7 was released, has moved a good chunk of the consumer segment towards other platforms. Windows 8 was supposed to bring those consumer segment customers back, but hasn't. Some of those customers have moved to other computing platforms (iOS, Android) or to OS X, and don't show any signs of wanting to come back (I think it's a reasonable choice... if such devices fulfill computing needs, why bother with anything more). People moving away from Windows to those alternatives does represent a quite large number in the consumer segment.

Windows isn't going to quickly collapse because most of its base is fairly stable: businesses. While that's good news for Windows sales, resistance to Windows 8 is historically high: 3/4 of businesses have "no plans" to deploy it at all, and adoption rates at this point in time is even worse than Vista did in its same time frame. MS still makes money on Windows 7 licenses.
 
pxc said:
Windows 8 was supposed to bring those consumer segment customers back, but hasn't.
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Not entirely true, around 5% of tablet sales are Windows 8/RT, and while a small number it is a number that Windows 7 would have never generated. Still, pricing and good hardware a much bigger problem for 8/RT in the tablet and touch space than the UI and the controversy over Windows 8. I do believe that the right hardware at the right price should be a big boost to Windows 8 outside of the conventional hardware PC market. If this fails to be true then Windows 8 will have failed to accomplish its primary goal of generating respectable tablet sales and thus be a strategic failure.
 
heatlesssun said:
How is my logic biased when I am simply pointing out that what you and others are describing has ALWAYS been the case with Windows. When the new version comes out, that's what typically gets put on new retail machines. If the policy had been to have an option for a prior version of Windows on new retail machines, then there be a point. I just don't see the reasoning of pointing out a long standing policy that has helped EVERY version of Windows to gain market share.
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Well, the argument isn't that it's helped in all cases, but rather how much it's helped in regards to total adoption in each specific case. If adoption rates slow by X% but hardware sales only slowed by Y%, then people can start making inferences from that data.

It would be interesting to have access to full numbers to see just how much the adoption rate of each version of Windows was based on new hardware sales.
 
RealityCrunch said:
It would be interesting to have access to full numbers to see just how much the adoption rate of each version of Windows was based on new hardware sales.
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The adoption rate of every version of Windows for decades now has been helped by new hardware sales as that's the primary distribution channel of Windows, upgrades are just a small portion.
 
I'd be surprised if it wasn't gaining steam - yesterday I went into a Best Buy for the first time in over a year and they literally had 10 display tables with laptops and surfaces. All of them were running windows 8. I'm not sure that an average consumer would even know how to buy something with windows 7 on it.

Personally, I like windows 8.1 enough to have it on a couple of my computers. Consumers are strange. I saw one person mess with a surface pro and say "this sucks" - then she went over to a Lenova Yoga (running the same windows 8) and said "oooooh.... I want this one!"
 
Well I'm sure its been said a million times before.. but I am sure sales and the fact that not many laptops even ship with Windows 7 anymore.
 
ChedWick said:
So your counter to the argument that people dislike 8 because its different is that if it were true, they'd buy a mac, a vastly different and more expensive option :confused::confused:
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I counter the argument that Windows 8 is THAT different by suggesting that if it was that bad then Mac is an option. But, as noted by others, Mac sales are down as well so the people insisting that Windows PC sales being down is a result of Windows 8 aren't looking at all the data. All PC sales are down because, frankly, most consumers only consume data, not create. Lots of those people are sticking with tablets so don't see the need to buy a new computer. The people who do need to buy a full computer and can't use a tablet are following the traditional split between Mac and Windows with no side gaining any real traction over the other.

So, to be blunt, the sales data says nothing about Windows 8. It says a whole heck of a lot about tablet popularity among consumers since the sales of PC's began to drop before Windows 8 came out. If people want to insist consumers hate Windows 8 they need real data to back them up, not just anecdote and poorly interpreted statistics.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not entirely true, around 5% of tablet sales are Windows 8/RT, and while a small number it is a number that Windows 7 would have never generated. Still, pricing and good hardware a much bigger problem for 8/RT in the tablet and touch space than the UI and the controversy over Windows 8. I do believe that the right hardware at the right price should be a big boost to Windows 8 outside of the conventional hardware PC market. If this fails to be true then Windows 8 will have failed to accomplish its primary goal of generating respectable tablet sales and thus be a strategic failure.
Click to expand...

The goal of Windows 8 was to leverage the installation base of PC users...to prep them for Windows Tablets. Considering the write offs they missed their target by quite a bit. What is strange is it would have only taken a little bit of tweaking to have made it a smashing success.

Windows 7 could have easily pushed tablet sales. Simply make a new Metro a UI replacement/app store. Give it away for free. Work in improving the backend to win consumers over. When you buy a Blu-ray with digital download you can use it to get a movie etc. Ideally should also allow phone apps to me run on a PC. (via emulation of different binaries) Work on making coding tools to make coding such apps easier. They were a little short sighted hear as they were just trying to encourage windows 8 upgrades.

Windows 8 would then just be an improved version of 7. Loads a little bit faster, runs a little leaner etc. I would like to see them work on improving included apps or small fee apps.

This is the cost of ignoring the market, you have to invest more to catch up as consumers have higher expectations. Until Microsoft has critical mass on the backend everything else will be difficult.
 
Wrench00 said:
When is the last time you walked into a consumer store and saw a Windows 7 Install?
You will not because MS tied OEM hands with 8 SKU (discontinuation of 7) and thus OEM tied resellers with 8 SKU.
Click to expand...

The numbers about market share we're talking about come from internet useage and what machine is accessing the website. Has nothing to do with a Win8 SKU being activated. This has been pointed out several times already.
 
Ididar said:
So, to be blunt, the sales data says nothing about Windows 8. It says a whole heck of a lot about tablet popularity among consumers since the sales of PC's began to drop before Windows 8 came out. If people want to insist consumers hate Windows 8 they need real data to back them up, not just anecdote and poorly interpreted statistics.
Click to expand...

CEO let go still not good enough? Low number of actual upgrades still not good enough? Large write offs? Windows 8 is not a bad OS, it is not Windows ME...but Microsoft put the cart before the horse and tried to force consumers to a new UI. This was a mistake and is really difficult to debate against.

Windows 8 sales are better then Vista but worse then 7. I would have expected they would have been better had they kept Aero and made Metro optional. Then we would just have a clean faster OS, that people might not buy because it did not offer enough over their current Windows 7, but they would not have the negative PR. If Metro could allow Windows Phone and Tablet apps to run on a PC they could test out various features and start purchasing applications from Microsoft. When they looked for a new phone that might help.

Overall I have been very disappointed with PC's direction. Ultrabooks normally not upgradable enough. Software progression on PC's a little lackluster. This is where I think Windows 8 could have helped by allowing smaller developers to make and distribute applications directly to consumers.

In the end though as consumers want smartphones and tablets which have prices ranging from 200-700, disposable income will go down ...hurting PC sales. I think the problem most is a lack or understand or proper focus on the consumers needs. Which is exactly why Windows 8 sales are so lackluster. Microsoft stopped focusing on what the consumer wants today.

TO be far they have been historically bad a consumers needs:)
 
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