Google Accused Of Trying To Sabotage Windows Phone

Mav451 said:
You know, after trying (and now using) Win8, I really do think the online mob mentality has once again gotten it wrong lol. I sold my Nexus 7 (2012) specifically b/c it wasn't fitting my needs. Safe to say that in October (when my 2yr is up) that I'll approach this decision with an open mind :p
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Well my guess is that the original mob mentality was right on about WP7, which i used and thought was a piece of shit.

They made leaps and bounds with WP8.
 
///AMG said:
If MS is developing the app and just using the API that google gives and conforms to everything but the HTML5 req. that supposedly neither the iOS or Android app does then I really don't see a problem. Google isn't spending any money or resource and are basically getting more hits on YouTube for free then who's the one really hurting? Seems to me like google doesn't want MS to have YouTube on WP or wants MS a company with lots of resources to develop a HTML5 app for free so they can recycle.
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Thats all subjective and a matter of opinion. Bottom line is Google cites that their TOS was violated, and in Microsoft's opinion the requirements for compliance are "unfair".

This is obviously a complex relationship between the two megacorps with many moving parts and nobody is innocent, certainly not MS when it comes to anti-competitive practices.

I think the biggest problem Microsoft is having trouble coming to terms with is they're not in a bargaining position.
 
Unknown-One said:
It's zero financial burden on Google's part, Microsoft already wrote the app. Google wont let them release it...
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It is a financial burden if Microsoft's app is making its own decisions about things like when and under what conditions ads do or do not get shown. Example if a copyright holder marks their video as NOT FOR MOBILE and Microsoft's WP8 app plays it anyway on mobile. Maybe it seems silly from a consumer point of view but legally speaking its not Microsoft that has the right to make those determinations or play gatekeeper.
 
DPI said:
It is a financial burden if Microsoft's app is making its own decisions about things like when and under what conditions ads do or do not get shown.
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Right, so Google forcibly blocked the app (forcing WP devices to use the mobile website).

And the mobile website displays... zero ads.

If they were concerned AT ALL about actual ad revenue, they would have left the app in place.
 
Unknown-One said:
Right, so Google forcibly blocked the app (forcing WP devices to use the mobile website).

And the mobile website displays... zero ads.

If they were concerned AT ALL about actual ad revenue, they would have left the app in place.
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Whether or not the mobile site display's zero ads is irrelevant to this dust-up.
 
somecallmeTim said:
Agreed.

I actually like my Win8 phone better than any Android phone I've every had. Everything just works. Then again, I don't have 10000 apps installed for every stupid thing, just stuff that's actually useful.

For the most part, I don't even worry about my Win8 phone, unlike when I had an Android based phone I was always worried if it would actually work on a daily basis. Plus, the latest update (pre 8.1) has just about quadrupled my battery life, improved Wi-Fi and GPS, along with a general speed up of the phone.
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Agree
i have the Nokia 820 and dont really see a need for a ton of apps, looking forward to the upcoming "big 1080" version
 
I used to worship Google but I feel compelled to hate them more and more each day. Not sure why, though I think it started with my realization that Android is a piece of laggy shit. Then there's suddenly all of these news stories.

It's also insidious as fuck how Google design philosophy makes all of their products seem friendly, child-like even, and in the background they're mining all of your shit.
 
DPI said:
Seriously.. MS keeps putting money into attack campaigns like "scroogled" - going as far as hiring a political campaign manager for the job, then spills salty tears when Google doesn't share.
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*nod* Competitive practices between competing companies are fairly common, so I'm not sure how this is an issue. Is it required for a company to support a competitors products? Youtube isn't oxygen, people can live without it and since it's a Google owned product can't they technically refuse to allow other companies to produce apps for it (either via indirect or direct means)?
 
And before too many more pages of "poor Microsoft" let's remember this is still the same company still doing the same crap like sending DMCA takedown complaints for Libre Open Office because it "infringes" on Microsoft Office.

So apparently companies are only being unfair and anti-competitive when its from the point of view of Microsoft.

http://www.muktware.com/5836/microsoft-sends-dmca-notice-remove-openoffice-search
https://torrentfreak.com/microsoft-censors-openoffice-download-links-130814/
 
RealityCrunch said:
*nod* Competitive practices between competing companies are fairly common, so I'm not sure how this is an issue. Is it required for a company to support a competitors products? Youtube isn't oxygen, people can live without it and since it's a Google owned product can't they technically refuse to allow other companies to produce apps for it (either via indirect or direct means)?
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If they bundle their own apps, the EU will take all of their money so Greek people won't have to get jobs.
 
Wow, a lot of hate for Google.

MS has been nothing but a stream constant fuck ups and poor products for the last few years. I would not surprise me at all to find that they fucked up the you tube app and Google said "It's shit....No, you are not releasing it". Why Ballmer is still the CEO is beyond me.

If you know anything about MS...if the shoe was on the other foot they'd be doing the same thing.

Bottom line: If MS wants a you tube app, they will need satisfy Google. Bad mouthing them and crying about it isn't going to help the matter.
 
I can definitely see some sabotage when it comes to Google/Apple on Microsoft.. but that's only from my recent years of doing desktop support and dealing with all the "extras" that come with Google/Apple software products on Windows. However.. I don't know of any way that Microsoft is currently (or can) 'sabotage' Google or Apple without risking a lawsuit. Can anyone provide some thoughts on that?
 
The same could be said for Microsoft not making Office for Android and iOS. Arguably a bad move for Microsoft since they could have made billions off of it. Pages just might be the most profitable app in the Apple store, and it could have been MS Word.
 
EmptyPockets said:
I can definitely see some sabotage when it comes to Google/Apple on Microsoft.. but that's only from my recent years of doing desktop support and dealing with all the "extras" that come with Google/Apple software products on Windows. However.. I don't know of any way that Microsoft is currently (or can) 'sabotage' Google or Apple without risking a lawsuit. Can anyone provide some thoughts on that?
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The problem Microsoft finds themselves in after decades of comfort level coasting in their monopolized market segments is they fell asleep at the mobile wheel, while Android snowballed into the "Windows of mobile" thanks in part to Apple's steadfastness on staying vertical which left them vulnerable for the same reasons Windows has dominated MacOS.

So Microsoft isn't in a position to retaliate on mobile, their services aren't being sought on Android as much as Google's are on Microsoft platforms.
 
DPI said:
The problem Microsoft finds themselves in after decades of comfort level coasting in their monopolized market segments is they fell asleep at the mobile wheel, while Android snowballed into the "Windows of mobile" thanks in part to Apple's steadfastness on staying vertical which left them vulnerable for the same reasons Windows has dominated MacOS.

So Microsoft isn't in a position to retaliate on mobile, their services aren't being sought on Android as much as Google's are on Microsoft platforms.
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I totally agree. There are more people on Windows Phone that need YouTube than there are on Android that need ActiveSync...
 
Bing was created to edge out Google's search market.
MS used .Net updates to worm code into Firefox and Chrome.
MS continually contacted Google to remove search results that supposedly infringed on copyrights (like torrent search results) but left those items in Bing.
MS is running a pretty nasty add campaign against Google.
MS came keeps jamming its foot into Google's turf and not playing nice and they expect Google to be reasonable as well?
Not going to happen.
Besides, Android (post 4.0.4) and iOS don't support flash and Adobe has went to hell (I can't even begin to count the # of times flash has crashed in my browser be it IE, Firefox or Chrome), this is just Google's way of getting a nice HTML5 coded app at MS's expense and if they refuse, it makes the Windows phone look less attractive than Android or iOS due to a lack of a Youtube app.
Either way, Google wins.
 
SixFootDuo said:
I personally want to see Microsoft fad out and get replaced by other companies. This could happen but it could take a while.

The Microsoft brand is constantly taken a beating in the media and for obvious reasons. Windows 8, Surface tablet, Windows phone, Xbox One, etc, and that's just recently.

I read some of the Google Dev blogs on the subject and they go into much more detail that most of the articles out there don't. One dev said Microsoft was given a very clear set of instructions, mostly geek programming talk I don't understand too well but that Microsoft basically ignored those sets of instructions.
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Instructions such as build the app using HTML5 which google failed to pull off on iOS/Android?
 
DPI said:
It is a financial burden if Microsoft's app is making its own decisions about things like when and under what conditions ads do or do not get shown. Example if a copyright holder marks their video as NOT FOR MOBILE and Microsoft's WP8 app plays it anyway on mobile. Maybe it seems silly from a consumer point of view but legally speaking its not Microsoft that has the right to make those determinations or play gatekeeper.
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That is a valid point and MS tried to adhere to this. There are still (some) issues with this and for that to be resolved, MS needs some metadata access that youtube app on ios/android has. But google refused to give that.



> hi. we want a youtube app
your market share does not justify the cost/time for an app
> we have built the app ourselves
it allows to "download" (read: buffer the whole vid so vid doesn't stop half way), access to restricted video and does not show ads
> ok, we are removing the app for now.
> Hi, we have removed "download", added restricted video support and added ads
sometimes ad showing criteria is not right. so we are blocking the app.
> we need some metadata access that ios/android youtube has to fix the ad criteria issue.
you are not getting it.

Basically, google trying its best to flex its android muscle to prevent wp from gaining more market share. They are scared of wp lol.
 
This by no means I don't dislike Microsoft, but if I had my choice which one is the least evil and the least threat to my privacy and more openness on the internet in the future, I'd choose Microsoft.

Google's moving to their end game and they need to make real money and its going to come out of our pockets.
 
Food for thought here.
If anyone is in a position to dethrone MS its Google.
Google has been setting up its own fiber network, bet it won't be using MS servers.
Google has its own mobile OS. Google now has its own desktop OS.
Both are given to manufacturers for FREE.
It cuts into MS's market, it barely allows MS to get into the mobile market and right now is just a nuisance in the desktop market (with potential to grow).
I know I didn't mention Apple.
Apple controls their OS (mobile and desktop), they build to spec, they are their own entity. You can only buy Apple from Apple, Apple OS, Apple hardware, Apple support, Apple control on allowed software and applications and Apple premium price (which is the #1 reason OSX is never going to dominate the desktop).
Google already has an excellent mobile OS everyone is now playing catchup to, if they throw their weight behind Chrome OS OR a Linux distro like Ubuntu or Mint and work with those devs to make it a REAL competitor for Windows desktop OS Microsoft is going to be hurting.
Right now PC gaming can really only be done on a Windows PC. With Valve and Steam starting to support Linux and APIs like Wine and Cedega allowing more and more Windows programs to run in Linux, gaming could shift. Google could provide resources to devs and hardware companies to write drivers and compatable versions there could be a rapid shift and Microsoft knows it.
If there were 2 companies that had just reason to hate and fear one another its Google and Microsoft.
 
Team Obi Juan said:
They are not.
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Google is afraid of something here. There are any number of apps on Windows Phone and even Windows 8 that clearly violate Google's TOS but Google doesn't seem to be concerned with those. Sure, Microsoft app is the biggest fish of but why not go after Microsoft since they run these stores and make them pull ALL of these YouTube apps? use Metrotube and Hyper on my phone and PC respectively and almost never bother with the site because the apps are generally better. I wouldn't be surprised that if this continues to escalate that Google will come after all of the Windows and Windows Phone apps.
 
EmptyPockets said:
I can definitely see some sabotage when it comes to Google/Apple on Microsoft.. but that's only from my recent years of doing desktop support and dealing with all the "extras" that come with Google/Apple software products on Windows. However.. I don't know of any way that Microsoft is currently (or can) 'sabotage' Google or Apple without risking a lawsuit. Can anyone provide some thoughts on that?
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Actually Apple and MS are close allies at the moment against their biggest enemy Google. They share patents and even have an alliance that bought up patents together. Not only that but I think MS actively spends quite a bit to develop on Mac OS these days.

From what I read on MS's post they didnt violate any TOS but they didnt follow Google's will that it be HTML5 based. I dont think Google wrote any app that uses the youtube API has to be HTML5 because then iOS and Android versions would violate the TOS lol. But w/e we wont get a clear picture until both sides clearly state the situation as is I have only seen MS post.
 
///AMG said:
Actually Apple and MS are close allies at the moment against their biggest enemy Google. They share patents and even have an alliance that bought up patents together. Not only that but I think MS actively spends quite a bit to develop on Mac OS these days.

From what I read on MS's post they didnt violate any TOS but they didnt follow Google's will that it be HTML5 based. I dont think Google wrote any app that uses the youtube API has to be HTML5 because then iOS and Android versions would violate the TOS lol. But w/e we wont get a clear picture until both sides clearly state the situation as is I have only seen MS post.
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I think the HTML 5 issue is probably the strongest point that Microsoft has in this if what they are saying about it is true.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think the HTML 5 issue is probably the strongest point that Microsoft has in this if what they are saying about it is true.
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I would have to agree. I cant say anything about the app because I dont have any WP devices. But again from what I have read the situation sounds like MS is not the one trying to cause problems. Specifically since they are the one spending time, money and resources to develop the app and not google.
 
SGA76 said:
Food for thought here.
If anyone is in a position to dethrone MS its Google.
Google has been setting up its own fiber network, bet it won't be using MS servers.
Google has its own mobile OS. Google now has its own desktop OS.
Both are given to manufacturers for FREE.
It cuts into MS's market, it barely allows MS to get into the mobile market and right now is just a nuisance in the desktop market (with potential to grow).
I know I didn't mention Apple.
Apple controls their OS (mobile and desktop), they build to spec, they are their own entity. You can only buy Apple from Apple, Apple OS, Apple hardware, Apple support, Apple control on allowed software and applications and Apple premium price (which is the #1 reason OSX is never going to dominate the desktop).
Google already has an excellent mobile OS everyone is now playing catchup to, if they throw their weight behind Chrome OS OR a Linux distro like Ubuntu or Mint and work with those devs to make it a REAL competitor for Windows desktop OS Microsoft is going to be hurting.
Right now PC gaming can really only be done on a Windows PC. With Valve and Steam starting to support Linux and APIs like Wine and Cedega allowing more and more Windows programs to run in Linux, gaming could shift. Google could provide resources to devs and hardware companies to write drivers and compatable versions there could be a rapid shift and Microsoft knows it.
If there were 2 companies that had just reason to hate and fear one another its Google and Microsoft.
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If i could run all of my games under linux / chrome os -- whatever id switch in a heart beat and NEVER look back. Microsoft products are making me rage lately. I cant stand how every single application they put out has no standardization, they change the names, the icons, etc with each minor update. My employer uses microsoft communicator for sharing desktop, chat, presence awareness etc. then it was updated to lync, now its part of office 2013, with each name change they also completely changed the interface, the verbage, the icons -- so our end users are constantly learning a new set of instructions and its frustrating. This seems to be their strategy these days: operation frustrate end user.
 
heatlesssun said:
Google is afraid of something here. There are any number of apps on Windows Phone and even Windows 8 that clearly violate Google's TOS but Google doesn't seem to be concerned with those. Sure, Microsoft app is the biggest fish of but why not go after Microsoft since they run these stores and make them pull ALL of these YouTube apps?
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Again, Google doesn't care about knockoff apps written by kids in India, because those apps are going nowhere. When dumbs look for an app and can't find the official one often the search will stop there.

Doesn't require brain surgery to understand there's a distinction with Microsoft themselves putting forth an app and proclaiming it "The Official Youtube app"
 
And there's no "going after Microsoft to pull all the youtube apps" for the same reason there's no blanket way for companies to tell Google to pull offending content from youtube -- these companies will simply say "report the offenses case by case and we'll look into it".. That's all MS would do.
 
DPI said:
Again, Google doesn't care about knockoff apps written by kids in India, because those apps are going nowhere. When dumbs look for an app and can't find the official one often the search will stop there.
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That makes no sense. Type "youtube" into the Windows Phone or Windows 8 stores and there are literally 1,000 apps that violate Google's TOS.

DPI said:
Doesn't require brain surgery to understand there's a distinction with Microsoft themselves putting forth an app and proclaiming it "The Official Youtube app"
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So the thing that makes mobile platforms great are the handful of official apps for a handful of services. Yep..
 
heatlesssun said:
That makes no sense. Type "youtube" into the Windows Phone or Windows 8 stores and there are literally 1,000 apps that violate Google's TOS.
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The fact its fragmented into 1000 knockoff apps on a platform that barely exists - why should Google care?

heatlesssun said:
So the thing that makes mobile platforms great are the handful of official apps for a handful of services. Yep..
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FWIW, Ballmer himself admitted as much a few weeks ago in his internal memo - that 4 or 5 marquis apps are worth more to the platform than a hundred thousand no-names and knockoffs. The problem is dumbs will walk into a cellphone store, look to see if it has the handful of apps "all their friends are using" and often make a purchase decision by that. Is it silly, sure.
 
DPI said:
The fact its fragmented into 1000 knockoff apps on a platform that barely exists - why should Google care?



FWIW, Ballmer himself admitted as much a few weeks ago in his internal memo - that 4 or 5 marquis apps are worth more to the platform than a hundred thousand no-names and knockoffs. The problem is dumbs will walk into a cellphone store, look to see if it has the handful of apps "all their friends are using" and often make a purchase decision by that. Is it silly, sure.
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Actually FWIW if they were dumb they would just buy w/e the media and their friends tells them is the latest and greatest. OH wait they already do? :p Why do you think samsung and apple do so well? I think the moment Samsung went Android was the moment all the other OEMs lost. Samsung is just too big even before mobile devices to lose to HTC, Motorola, LG, Nokia etc. Not just that now the Samsung sheep are just as bad if not worse than the apple sheep.
Its like Google joined hands with one of the most dangerous companies in the world. Google looks clean in comparison to Samsung Group. But that doesnt mean Google isnt getting there. Gotta give credit to Google for trying to look like the nice guy when we all know all corporations/companies are out there for themselves. Its just more disgusting because Google tried so hard for so long not to make it so obvious what they were going to do and other companies just didnt care. Now that Apple isnt doing so well and Google and Samsung are everyone is going to dig up stuff on them and its only now getting to light that Samsung and Google are just like Apple probably even worse just this time no one has the Steve Jobs reality distortion field, but Android and the way Google tries to hide everything is getting really close to what Steve Jobs had.
 
DPI said:
The fact its fragmented into 1000 knockoff apps on a platform that barely exists - why should Google care?
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Under that line of reasoning, why would Google care about this YouTube app then? if the platform "barely exists" then why care at all?

Oh, right, because that's totally bogus. WP actually has aa decent chunk of market share, and is one of the few mobile OS's showing consistent year-over-year growth.
 
I wonder if Google is pissed about Windows Phone 8 handsets for $99 that run an order of magnitude better than anything their partners can do with a moldy old three versions behind android.

(Lumia 520 and 521)
 
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