Should Online Jokes Be Criminal?

A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, TX into a not so pleasant neighborhood. He was putting up a fence and the neighbor comes out, pulls the posts out and says that’s on his property. So he doesn’t put up the fence. He does other things to improve the house and he begins receiving various threats including death. He called the police and they told him they can’t do anything until someone actually assaults him.
 
NeghVar said:
A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, TX into a not so pleasant neighborhood. He was putting up a fence and the neighbor comes out, pulls the posts out and says that’s on his property. So he doesn’t put up the fence. He does other things to improve the house and he begins receiving various threats including death. He called the police and they told him they can’t do anything until someone actually assaults him.
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Police aren't doing anything about valid death threats? That's almost always a criminal investigation.
 
NeghVar said:
A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, TX into a not so pleasant neighborhood. He was putting up a fence and the neighbor comes out, pulls the posts out and says that’s on his property. So he doesn’t put up the fence. He does other things to improve the house and he begins receiving various threats including death. He called the police and they told him they can’t do anything until someone actually assaults him.
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A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, Texas into a not so pleasant neighborhood.

A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, Texas.

A friend of mine moved to Texas.

Texas.

There's your answer. A lot of Texans worship their guns before their Lord thy God.
 
Azhar said:
There's your answer. A lot of Texans worship their guns before their Lord thy God.
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Which is something a Yankee wouldn't understand. Why don't you take a history lesson and find out why we take that stance.
 
Krenum said:
Which is something a Yankee wouldn't understand. Why don't you take a history lesson and find out why we take that stance.
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American farmers stole the land from Mexico. And they wonder why they want it back. You study history. I already have.
 
NeghVar said:
A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, TX into a not so pleasant neighborhood. He was putting up a fence and the neighbor comes out, pulls the posts out and says that’s on his property. So he doesn’t put up the fence. He does other things to improve the house and he begins receiving various threats including death. He called the police and they told him they can’t do anything until someone actually assaults him.
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property is cheap in texas, if he has the money to improve he should have just moved to a nicer neighborhood.
 
Azhar said:
American farmers stole the land from Mexico. And they wonder why they want it back. You study history. I already have.
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That's a bit of a tricky one. The Mexican government at the time was corrupt (LOL?) and encouraged a lot of the problems that came to be.
 
Krenum said:
Which is something a Yankee wouldn't understand. Why don't you take a history lesson and find out why we take that stance.
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Lived in Texas my whole life. We don't call people Yankees, please go back to Walmart in Odessa.
 
We already have plenty of laws on this.

As with anything, the forum and context matters as much as what is said, and common sense should dictate whether a threat is a serious one or not.

If kids are playing an online FPS game and a guy jumps out with a rocket launcher and says "I'm going to rape your face MUUAHAHAHAH!" its not the same as a bully pushing a boy into a bathroom stall and saying "I'm going to rape your face...".

Common sense people, seriously.
 
NeghVar said:
A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, TX into a not so pleasant neighborhood. He was putting up a fence and the neighbor comes out, pulls the posts out and says that’s on his property. So he doesn’t put up the fence. He does other things to improve the house and he begins receiving various threats including death. He called the police and they told him they can’t do anything until someone actually assaults him.
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In Mesquite? Sorry, I call BS on this story, as I don't buy that his neighbors speak English! :D
 
Azhar said:
American farmers stole the land from Mexico. And they wonder why they want it back. You study history. I already have.
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It had already changed hands before the Mexican-American war, but if it hadn't then Texas would have become spoils of war just like Arizona, New Mexico, and California ... to the victor belong the spoils :cool:

Next you'll be claiming we should give the Virgin Islands, Guam, Puerto Rico, and Guantanamo back to Spain :eek:
 
LeninGHOLA said:
That's a bit of a tricky one. The Mexican government at the time was corrupt (LOL?) and encouraged a lot of the problems that came to be.
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I was just giving the bottom line. Besides, I'm pretty sure that the Mexican people living in Texas at the time had no say in what their corrupt government does.

Anyways: those who say his entire comment isn't in the article, where'd you guys find the rest of the comments at?
 
kbrickley said:
It had already changed hands before the Mexican-American war, but if it hadn't then Texas would have become spoils of war just like Arizona, New Mexico, and California ... to the victor belong the spoils :cool:

Next you'll be claiming we should give the Virgin Islands, Guam, Puerto Rico, and Guantanamo back to Spain :eek:
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Of course not. Nor am I saying we should give Texas back to Mexico. I was merely countering a poster who said Texans embrace their guns because of bad history with their neighbors as if it's all their fault.
 
Azhar said:
Of course not. Nor am I saying we should give Texas back to Mexico. I was merely countering a poster who said Texans embrace their guns because of bad history with their neighbors as if it's all their fault.
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Well, the South and the West have always had more of a gun culture than the East or the North ... I think hostilities with the poor Native Americans and a broader engagement with armed outlaws and bandits had more to do with that then regional conflicts with our neighbor to the south ;)
 
Azhar said:
American farmers stole the land from Mexico. And they wonder why they want it back. You study history. I already have.
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The reason why Texas like their guns, is because we have actually had to use them , we fought for our freedom, Illinois was bought and purchased. Maybe that's the difference. Granted I didn't fight for this state but the spirit for being part of it still remains, and people from Chicago don't understand what the price for freedom really costs or maybe they do?
 
The Bill of Rights has had the guts stomped out since 9/11, and kicked in the teeth after Newtown. Prior to this, people would fight to guarantee the right of other Americans to say even disgusting, ignorant, or distasteful things, like this kid. It was essential that speech be protected, all speech. Now we have tripped down the slippery slope where freedom of speech is judged by public outcry, or worse, the whims of local, federal, or state government, where discretion is controlled by political parties for their own ends. This is the most dangerous avenue this nation has explored, as removal of the First Amendment means removal of the ability to dissent. When dissent is outlawed, as it will be in due course, democracy will be lost.
 
TheBluePill said:
The Bill of Rights has had the guts stomped out since 9/11, and kicked in the teeth after Newtown. Prior to this, people would fight to guarantee the right of other Americans to say even disgusting, ignorant, or distasteful things, like this kid. It was essential that speech be protected, all speech. Now we have tripped down the slippery slope where freedom of speech is judged by public outcry, or worse, the whims of local, federal, or state government, where discretion is controlled by political parties for their own ends. This is the most dangerous avenue this nation has explored, as removal of the First Amendment means removal of the ability to dissent. When dissent is outlawed, as it will be in due course, democracy will be lost.
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You might want to reread the Constitution ... the prohibition on free speech applies to Congress, not the States ... it was illegal to promote racial equality in the South during the last century and that wasn't a violation of the 1st Amendment ;) ... that said, it doesn't appear as if this was a valid terrorist threat but given the risks you can't fault the police for acting once it was brought to their attention ... I am surprised they haven't reevaluated his case with all the publicity this is getting but one should not say stupid things, even in jest ... besides being bad manners, you run the risk of situations like this (or the man in Florida that was arrested for threatening the life of the President) ... some things are best left unsaid, even in jest ... as Abraham Lincoln said, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." :cool:
 
Azhar said:
A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, Texas into a not so pleasant neighborhood.

A friend of mine moved to Mesquite, Texas.

A friend of mine moved to Texas.

Texas.

There's your answer. A lot of Texans worship their guns before their Lord thy God.
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He has lived in Collin county since 1978. He's no noob to Texas, just the move to Mesquite. He's in Forney now.
 
Here's one thing I've not seen anyone bring up. Ok, let's say that this is all a bad joke, the authorities then just let it go. Then the guy goes out and does something horrific along the lines of this post at a later date. There are been a number of people that have been picked up and become targets of interest that weren't nearly as harmless as authorities thought at the time.

I'm not saying that's the case here but these particular crimes cause so utterly destructive and evil with people snapping, often with signs years before the actual act that it's just not as simple as "oh bad joke. let's just forget it." Overreaction, yes. But there is such a thing as an abundance of caution which is intentional overreaction when you really don't know what may happen. If you were the authorities in this case, how willing would you be to just let this go and vouch for this guy?
 
Phoenix333 said:
You might want to think again about that.
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Do I?

So basically you had to go to the otherside of the planet where people are steeped in actual violence for continuously for years or decades to find an example?

Is there anything in this kid's life in terms of actual acts of violence or acts committed around him that are remotely in common with the life of the person who did that?
 
kbrickley said:
You might want to reread the Constitution ... the prohibition on free speech applies to Congress, not the States ... it was illegal to promote racial equality in the South during the last century and that wasn't a violation of the 1st Amendment ;) ... that said, it doesn't appear as if this was a valid terrorist threat but given the risks you can't fault the police for acting once it was brought to their attention ... I am surprised they haven't reevaluated his case with all the publicity this is getting but one should not say stupid things, even in jest ... besides being bad manners, you run the risk of situations like this (or the man in Florida that was arrested for threatening the life of the President) ... some things are best left unsaid, even in jest ... as Abraham Lincoln said, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." :cool:
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I’m sorry, but the Bill of Rights is quite clear, that the rights enumerated are “God Given” or “Natural” rights, that cannot be taken away, but have been infringed none the less. The rights do not apply to Congress or a government body in any way, nor are they collective rights, but individual rights.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your position on this, but the promise of America has been quite different than the actual state of America since its founding. Ideals such as “All men are created equal”, were never practiced, and still aren’t, but that doesn’t mean we should abandon striving for them. Yes, I agree, some things are better left unsaid, but drawing lines, especially ones we have as a nation been drawing lately, are extraordinarily dangerous to all of us. The line will keep moving to the point now, where even criticism or political opposition to a political party in power is punished. Since we now live under near-total surveillance, surely you can see the danger ahead?

And.. FYI, Lincoln was a tyrant.;)
 
Krenum said:
The reason why Texas like their guns, is because we have actually had to use them , we fought for our freedom, Illinois was bought and purchased. Maybe that's the difference. Granted I didn't fight for this state but the spirit for being part of it still remains, and people from Chicago don't understand what the price for freedom really costs or maybe they do?
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Wow, shit dude. I guess the French and Indian Wars were figments of everyone's imagination then.
 
TheBluePill said:
I’m sorry, but the Bill of Rights is quite clear, that the rights enumerated are “God Given” or “Natural” rights, that cannot be taken away, but have been infringed none the less. The rights do not apply to Congress or a government body in any way, nor are they collective rights, but individual rights.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your position on this, but the promise of America has been quite different than the actual state of America since its founding. Ideals such as “All men are created equal”, were never practiced, and still aren’t, but that doesn’t mean we should abandon striving for them. Yes, I agree, some things are better left unsaid, but drawing lines, especially ones we have as a nation been drawing lately, are extraordinarily dangerous to all of us. The line will keep moving to the point now, where even criticism or political opposition to a political party in power is punished. Since we now live under near-total surveillance, surely you can see the danger ahead?

And.. FYI, Lincoln was a tyrant.;)
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The US Constitution and the Bill of Rights have never been intended to be open-end nor as a suicide pact. It's never been that black and white. Else we wouldn't need courts and lawyers and Congress. The Bill of Rights is probably the most taken out of context than any other documents in the history of the United States because everyone wants to believe it says what it doesn't mean. The Bible's a very close second place.

This country would be in anarchy if we were as free as everyone thinks they are.
 
That the following resulting in imprisonment and $500,000 bond makes me sort of ashamed of my country:

I think Ima shoot up a kindergarten

And watch the blood of the innocent rain down

And eat the beating heart of one of them.
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1) Clearly a joke, unless you're autistic.

2) Doesn't specify a place, time, etc. as a target.

Pathetic. No other word for it. Now, the second post mentioned in the article is much more of a gray area. It's actually possible for a socially-functioning human to believe it *might* be a real threat, at least. It's clearly trolling, but it certainly should have been investigated and the kid deserved some repercussions.
 
heatlesssun said:
Here's one thing I've not seen anyone bring up. Ok, let's say that this is all a bad joke, the authorities then just let it go. Then the guy goes out and does something horrific along the lines of this post at a later date. There are been a number of people that have been picked up and become targets of interest that weren't nearly as harmless as authorities thought at the time.

I'm not saying that's the case here but these particular crimes cause so utterly destructive and evil with people snapping, often with signs years before the actual act that it's just not as simple as "oh bad joke. let's just forget it." Overreaction, yes. But there is such a thing as an abundance of caution which is intentional overreaction when you really don't know what may happen. If you were the authorities in this case, how willing would you be to just let this go and vouch for this guy?
Click to expand...

So your saying we should start punishing people for potential future crimes.

Welcome to the world of Minority Reports
 
TheBluePill said:
I’m sorry, but the Bill of Rights is quite clear, that the rights enumerated are “God Given” or “Natural” rights, that cannot be taken away, but have been infringed none the less. The rights do not apply to Congress or a government body in any way, nor are they collective rights, but individual rights.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your position on this, but the promise of America has been quite different than the actual state of America since its founding. Ideals such as “All men are created equal”, were never practiced, and still aren’t, but that doesn’t mean we should abandon striving for them. Yes, I agree, some things are better left unsaid, but drawing lines, especially ones we have as a nation been drawing lately, are extraordinarily dangerous to all of us. The line will keep moving to the point now, where even criticism or political opposition to a political party in power is punished. Since we now live under near-total surveillance, surely you can see the danger ahead?

And.. FYI, Lincoln was a tyrant.;)
Click to expand...

On the surface it appears that this kid should have been released rather than imprisoned for the 5 months he has been incarcerated ... however, he was legally indicted by a grand jury and his trial starts next week ... it will be interesting to see what the final result is

Free speech rules in the USA have always been somewhat nuanced ... the government is not supposed to restrict free speech but there are no such restrictions on private industry ... also, harmful forms of speech (libel, slander, threats) may not be prohibited legally but there can still be repurcussions for engaging in poorly thought out free speech ... does free speech allow you to threaten someone (generally no, it does not, depending on the individual state laws) ... can you foment a riot with free speech (again that is not permitted)

Free speech can't be a Carte Blanche to say every possible stupid thing (trying yelling "Bomb" in an airplane and see where the free speech defense gets you ;) ) ... personally I would not have indicted him but I do not know what evidence was presented at the grand jury ... the parents are also not totally independent witnesses of this (Jeffrey Daumer's parents defended him for a long time I think) ... the lesson here is that stupid actions can have consequences ... I feel sorry for this guy but he screwed up and is experiencing some horrible side effects of that screw up ... as I said, it will be interesting to see what happens at his trial next week
 
I do not think online should be treated any different than real life. Who would say something like that in real life anyway? Better yet would you write it and sign it with your name up on a billboard or bridge for everyone to see in real life? Second it's your job to think about how people will view something you do any how it could go wrong. If I take a toy that looks like a real gun and point it at a police officer should it be OK because it was a joke? Well we would all hope that no ones life would end that way but if it did we wouldn't really be surprised would we? So this kid made a very distasteful joke and did it at a particularly bad time in history and it cost him.

Best thing for him to do is, explain his case fully to the judge and admit to his stupidity and hope for mercy. Assuming he was fully cooperative they will give him some community service and a fine or a small amount of jail time.
 
brettjrob said:
That the following resulting in imprisonment and $500,000 bond makes me sort of ashamed of my country:

1) Clearly a joke, unless you're autistic.

2) Doesn't specify a place, time, etc. as a target.
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Have to be autistic to think its a good idea to joke about school shootings after recent events unless its REALLY obvious its a joke.
 
I think Ima shoot up a kindergarten

And watch the blood of the innocent rain down

And eat the beating heart of one of them.
Click to expand...

^ I've said worse than this....
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
So your saying we should start punishing people for potential future crimes.

Welcome to the world of Minority Reports
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Yeah that is a good point, and its what this story has become really. If anything imprisoning this person will probably make him more of a threat in the future.
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
So your saying we should start punishing people for potential future crimes.

Welcome to the world of Minority Reports
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It would not be the first time that someone with very severe problems showed signs of them before acting on them. That's just the reality of it and no one here isn't going to tell me that without really knowing this guy that they'd be entirely conformable being in the position of authority and just letting him go.
 
Krenum said:
Yeah that is a good point, and its what this story has become really. If anything imprisoning this person will probably make him more of a threat in the future.
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Which is even more disturbing and I'm sure has crossed the minds of authorities.
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
So your saying we should start punishing people for potential future crimes.

Welcome to the world of Minority Reports
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Are you saying that people shouldn't have reacted to the Columbine kids and that kid in Connecticut BEFORE they committed mass murder ;) ... obviously, you can't convict someone of a crime they didn't commit but different states have different laws concerning threatening speech

There could be more to this than the parents have let on ... the cops had to arrest him once a complaint was made (this was only 2 months after Sandyhook so folks were extra wary about copycat killers) ... however, the DA could have passed on this but he obviously felt there was something here ... the grand jury could have let it go but they obviously felt there was enough evidence to warrant a trial ... it will now be in the hands of a jury (unless there are some legal motions next week at his trial) ... his booking shot doesn't make him look like a scared kid ... let's see what happens next week at the trial

article-justin1-0705.jpg
 
Azhar said:
American farmers stole the land from Mexico. And they wonder why they want it back. You study history. I already have.
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I got news for you, pal: most every line demarcating a country on the world map was set by war and conquest.
 
brettjrob said:
That the following resulting in imprisonment and $500,000 bond makes me sort of ashamed of my country:



1) Clearly a joke, unless you're autistic.

2) Doesn't specify a place, time, etc. as a target.

Pathetic. No other word for it. Now, the second post mentioned in the article is much more of a gray area. It's actually possible for a socially-functioning human to believe it *might* be a real threat, at least. It's clearly trolling, but it certainly should have been investigated and the kid deserved some repercussions.
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You really can't say it's a joke unless you "know" and no one does, cept maybe the kid who said it. I don't get why specification of place, time, or anything else would really matter, it's something that can easily be seen as a threat, unless there are other context to show that it isn't. If there are, it's not in the article as far as I could find.

A threat is a threat is a threat. Sure, people have said worst. I know I have, but it's only to people I know who knows I'm joking.

jpm100 said:
Do I?

So basically you had to go to the otherside of the planet where people are steeped in actual violence for continuously for years or decades to find an example?

Is there anything in this kid's life in terms of actual acts of violence or acts committed around him that are remotely in common with the life of the person who did that?
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If it happens once, anywhere, it can happen again, anywhere else. Do you know if there is anything in this kid's life in terms of actual acts of violence or acts committed around him that might spurn him to do it? Not absolutely 100% sure? Well, then there's a chance, no? He could've been raped as a child for all anyone knows, had tons of things happen, who knows? Not saying it's probably, but it's possible, and what makes one person go over the edge is different for different people. Could just be a word said casually on the internet.
 
kbrickley said:
There could be more to this than the parents have let on ... the cops had to arrest him once a complaint was made (this was only 2 months after Sandyhook so folks were extra wary about copycat killers) ... however, the DA could have passed on this but he obviously felt there was something here ... the grand jury could have let it go but they obviously felt there was enough evidence to warrant a trial ... it will now be in the hands of a jury (unless there are some legal motions next week at his trial) ... his booking shot doesn't make him look like a scared kid ... let's see what happens next week at the trial
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Interesting, didn't know that this was a grand jury indictment. All I know is that without knowing a lot more about what the situation is here, there's not a soul in this thread that would sign and on the dotted line and be responsible letting him free. Because anything he might do on the future would be on your head.
 
kbrickley said:
There could be more to this than the parents have let on ... the cops had to arrest him once a complaint was made (this was only 2 months after Sandyhook so folks were extra wary about copycat killers) ... however, the DA could have passed on this but he obviously felt there was something here ... the grand jury could have let it go but they obviously felt there was enough evidence to warrant a trial ... it will now be in the hands of a jury (unless there are some legal motions next week at his trial) ... his booking shot doesn't make him look like a scared kid ... let's see what happens next week at the trial
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What's more to this is that at that time frame, people were scapegoating video games for Sandy Hook. Especially as a retort against blaming guns. So this kid was treated like proof positive that's true and they were going to make an example of him.
 
Serpent said:
If it happens once, anywhere, it can happen again, anywhere else. Do you know if there is anything in this kid's life in terms of actual acts of violence or acts committed around him that might spurn him to do it? Not absolutely 100% sure? Well, then there's a chance, no? He could've been raped as a child for all anyone knows, had tons of things happen, who knows? Not saying it's probably, but it's possible, and what makes one person go over the edge is different for different people. Could just be a word said casually on the internet.
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Oh sorry, he might be the next Adolf Hitler. Better give him the death sentence.
 
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