Apple Stock May Fall Another 20%

Truthfully, Apple stock has been massively overvalued for the last 2-3 years. Yes, Apple is still a successful company with a great profit margin but everyone bought into the idea of ever-expanding profits and that's just not possible. This is just another bubble set to burst.
 
Well Investors are probably seeing the same exact line of products being refreshed, a new product that is actually a shrunk version of an older product, a limited insight on what holds for future products (although this has always been with apple).

Apple hasn't tried anything new since the iPhone. If the iTV comes out that may spark another inflated stock price. Regardless how we think that product would actually sell.

Anyways not surprised by this analytical review of Apple stock, its the most popular one to strike as either GOING COMPLETELY DOWN THE HOLE!!! or OMG ITS GOING UP A MILLION DOLLARS?! I remember when Google's stock was like that this haha.
 
Well in fairness if Apple did come out with an iTV it would hopefully be Retina level (4k) to help push out the new standard.
 
next-Jin said:
Well in fairness if Apple did come out with an iTV it would hopefully be Retina level (4k) to help push out the new standard.
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And it would come with some proprietary connection and only work with apple tv, which means like all things apple it would not push any standard.
 
The problem for Apple is they're getting some insane competition from Google now. Apple, while first to the plate in many respects with the iPhone and iPad (as far delivering a defining product line), is now being shoved out of the very same market that was their cash cow. Make no mistake, the iPhone 5 is an amazing device. I'm by no means an Apple fan, and favor Google heavily. If Google developed a "premium" phone, I would have gotten that. However the closest Android competitor at the time, the Galaxy S3, paled in comparison.

That said, most people out their aren't going to be in the market for an $850 device (less with a mobile contract). Google gets this. Aesthetics, fanboyism, and personal features aside, the Nexus 4 isn't as good a phone as the iPhone 5, but, it offers close to 90% of what the iPhone can for less than half the price (it's $350, right?). Apple needs to come to terms with this new competition and start offering basic or "Foundation" models, or however they want to spin it, if they want to stay competitive.
 
!@#$%^&*() said:
iPad?

I don't think we've seen a totally new game changer from apple since 2010.

Makes you wonder if they've been working on something big recently.
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iPad is a good product but its just an increased iPhone platform, using the same OS and somewhat similar hardware architecture. Regardless what I think you could consider it a new item in their line up. Their big thing could be quite a few things but since most rumors point to the iTV it could be that.

Problem I have with the iTV is what will they do different that will make it so much better then the rest? Also how are they going to push refreshes for the product to keep it a high selling product? Who will they go to for panels? They could legitimately put apple TV in it (big woop) put a few extra sensors on it but as far as the OS goes it would be tough to depict how they'd go here.
 
If you start thinking about what apple makes they make nothing, but you cant think that way because the fact is they keep making boat loads of cash. The iPod was a direct rip off of companies like Archos and Rio, but they sold millions more units and Archos and Rio are no longer even sold in Best Buy or common consumer places. The iPhones was nothing more than an iPod finally capable of making phone calls, yet they shipped millions of units. The retina display was was nice but it looked so great only because most iPhone users had never experienced dense pixel density, I had 280 dpi years before that on my touch pro. The iPad, nothing more than a big iPod, or iPhone that cannot make phone calls. So sure the iPad mini is nothing more than an iPad that is smaller but so what none of these trends ever stopped apple from selling millions of units, billions of dollars and making everyone in the world pay attention to something that already existed.

You can keep saying big woop but thats what people who are knowledgable have been saying for over a decade about apple and yet apple keeps cranking out hits.

I think one of the most telling observations I ever saw was this. An analyst said that early sales of any electronic device should be high, simply put if they are not high you wont sell, like day1, week 1, month 1 and first quarter sales. The entire device success relies on people buying a product early in huge numbers. That is ironic because it tells you the truth about consumers, they arent researching,they are not waiting to experience something, people getting in line to buy a product before much real world hands on experience has ever taken place. Consoles, phones, tablets its all a joke how consumers pick. That is why advertising and building a name brand is so important, that is why Apple keeps doing so well.
 
@rudy

One thing you are forgetting is the experience that Apple gives over all. Yea its generally not the best anywhere but they give you something that works and is a good experience. They give you an eco system that can apply to everything as long as you have the Apple framework (iTunes). They literally integrate everything you could want for entertainment and make it so mind numbingly easy to do everyone wants it. That is what gives them the ability to charge so much.

But generally yes I agree, to get most of this on other competing products usually involves little to no experience and just some googling.
 
Trimlock said:
@rudy

One thing you are forgetting is the experience that Apple gives over all. Yea its generally not the best anywhere but they give you something that works and is a good experience. They give you an eco system that can apply to everything as long as you have the Apple framework (iTunes). They literally integrate everything you could want for entertainment and make it so mind numbingly easy to do everyone wants it. That is what gives them the ability to charge so much.

But generally yes I agree, to get most of this on other competing products usually involves little to no experience and just some googling.
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Yes, the Apple experience is definitely unique. Just make sure you properly bend over before unpacking your new iGroan.
 
I do not think I am forgetting the apple experience, from what I have seen it does not exist. I have to service macs for alot of people, tons of shit goes wrong all the time. The issue is more most people have nothing to compare too. Smart phones essentially just became powerful enough to really take off in the last 5 years. If you install any OS on a phone or a computer and you use it in the basic way most apple users use their devices its going to work. Really what can go wrong with messaging etc... They can charge so much because they have done a good job building a brand name through advertising. And sure the products do not suck. We saw the first example of this with apple maps where people were used to using googles solution and obviously even though maps was not horrible they noticed the short commings right away.

What everyone is missing is that you need to get your name out in order to sell products to the masses. Ask yourself what HTC phone has name brand appeal? None, why because the same phone has a different name on every carrier, so HTC cannot get any momentum going. Next year they will be all new names and the mass ignorant consumer can't go in and say I want the HTC phone 2 please.

The first major player to start changing this is samsung and I think that will be the best thing ever to happen to google. They were able to catapult the Galaxy into a powerful enough position to finally with the S3 say screw you carriers we now call it the S3 and if you don't like that tough shit. As such the galaxy line is just selling like crazy even though IMO they are no better than HTCs top end phones sitting right next to them. But they will move way more units than HTC. It wont be funny how many they will move.

The same exact pattern replicates with PC gaming vs consoles, there is no organization for PC gaming that gets on TV and puts out just as many commercials as the console commercials. So half the people out there just sip the koolaid and believe what ever lies are thrown at them about how consoles are all about the experience and framework and integration. And they totally leave out all the negatives.

You can even see this same effect almost anywhere, even food. Look at milk they have the got milk commercials, they saw a similar problem many different players with no unified name brand and they said we gotta fix it. Any company with a diverse ecosystem should think really hard about addressing this issue. Google is just such a company and they need to do something like force Verizon to get off the droid name, most consumers I know think android is droid and that all their is to it.

No googling needed you google phone or tablet will do everything an iphone will out of the box in almost all cases. Buy songs, play them, install apps, maps, whatever. Nothing too it. Just name branding is not solidified.
 
damicatz said:
Yes, the Apple experience is definitely unique. Just make sure you properly bend over before unpacking your new iGroan.
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I'm not exactly sure why the Apple experience has been able to carry over for so long with such a huge price tag. I know people are paying for it but I can't exactly figure out why people are STILL paying that price when there are better alternatives out there and for cheaper.

I just recently picked up a few old school android phones for personal media players for $15-$20 a peice at work last week. They are replacing my old cheap MP3 players and they still work great!
 
Trimlock said:
I'm not exactly sure why the Apple experience has been able to carry over for so long with such a huge price tag. I know people are paying for it but I can't exactly figure out why people are STILL paying that price when there are better alternatives out there and for cheaper.

I just recently picked up a few old school android phones for personal media players for $15-$20 a peice at work last week. They are replacing my old cheap MP3 players and they still work great!
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I believe the term you are looking for is "Stockholm Syndrome".
 
Trimlock said:
I'm not exactly sure why the Apple experience has been able to carry over for so long with such a huge price tag. I know people are paying for it but I can't exactly figure out why people are STILL paying that price when there are better alternatives out there and for cheaper.
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I think that many people overestimate the price of Apple products. One can buy cheaper products, but are they really as good as Apple products? There are many products in the Windows space that are far more expensive. Almost no one in the Apple ecosystem buys $500+ GPUs and no one pays $1000+ for a tablet.

Apple hardware isn't cheap but it is generally far from top line dollars as well.
 
damicatz said:
I believe the term you are looking for is "Stockholm Syndrome".
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Touche...

I think that many people overestimate the price of Apple products. One can buy cheaper products, but are they really as good as Apple products? There are many products in the Windows space that are far more expensive. Almost no one in the Apple ecosystem buys $500+ GPUs and no one pays $1000+ for a tablet.

Apple hardware isn't cheap but it is generally far from top line dollars as well.
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You are talking about the business and enthusiast side of the PC market. Thats not what is being discussed here. Apple hardware is almost purely used for entertainment and none of it at the enthusiast level at that. Most of their business happens at extreme mobile section where Windows segment isn't anymore expensive then Apple is.
 
Trimlock said:
Most of their business happens at extreme mobile section where Windows segment isn't anymore expensive then Apple is.
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But many people do complain about the cost of Windows 8 tablets for instance. Windows 8 tablets are the most expensive in the tablet market.
 
Apple stock prices thread with a discussion about Windows 8. heatlesssun must be here.
 
Globox said:
pot meet kettle
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Pot meet reality, Find one thing that I've said about Windows 8 that was trolling or insane. Indeed in a thread about Apple's stock price I noted the higher price of Windows mobile devices in defense of Apple. The great thing about trolls and trolling is the complete lack of logic.
 
Trimlock said:
I'm not exactly sure why the Apple experience has been able to carry over for so long with such a huge price tag. I know people are paying for it but I can't exactly figure out why people are STILL paying that price when there are better alternatives out there and for cheaper.
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Well that's the thing, better for whom? Us? Them? The competitors? Apple has consistently delivered a seamless, high performing, and trouble-free experience with its devices. No other company has that track record. That's not to say its perfect, which Apple fanboys will argue for, but it's pretty damn good.

For example, look at their phones: they consistently have fast or even the fastest hardware that's also pretty damn nice looking, top tier screens, a consistent but full-featured OS, a proven app store, proven music service (iTunes), and fantastic support, just to name a few things. That and they were the first company to really push an entire platform like that. Google is finally catching up and at a much cheaper price, and that's why they're gaining market share, but they still have to compete against Apple's legacy (i.e. people who won't switch because Apple has always worked well for them).
Trimlock said:
I just recently picked up a few old school android phones for personal media players for $15-$20 a peice at work last week. They are replacing my old cheap MP3 players and they still work great!
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But now you're carrying around a second device in addition to your phone.
heatlesssun said:
I think that many people overestimate the price of Apple products. One can buy cheaper products, but are they really as good as Apple products? There are many products in the Windows space that are far more expensive. Almost no one in the Apple ecosystem buys $500+ GPUs and no one pays $1000+ for a tablet.

Apple hardware isn't cheap but it is generally far from top line dollars as well.
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I agree. I'd never buy an Apple laptop or desktop, I think the MacOS sucks, but some people like it and Apple is actually more price competitive now. Look at some of the Ultrabooks out there compared to a Macbook Air.
 
Mr. K6 said:
Well that's the thing, better for whom? Us? Them? The competitors? Apple has consistently delivered a seamless, high performing, and trouble-free experience with its devices. No other company has that track record. That's not to say its perfect, which Apple fanboys will argue for, but it's pretty damn good.
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I'd attribute its popularity more on the marketing. In a country where Apple isn't plastered all over the TV and phones are sold at stores where they're placed side by side with competing models instead of a single phone on a pedestal, iPhones are a rarity.
 
Sly said:
I'd attribute its popularity more on the marketing. In a country where Apple isn't plastered all over the TV and phones are sold at stores where they're placed side by side with competing models instead of a single phone on a pedestal, iPhones are a rarity.
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I think there's a lot more to it than just marketing. The iPhone is a premium phone and always has been. Same with Macbooks, iPads, etc. The U.S. has a lot more money to throw around than almost any other country in the world, AND it's one of the largest countries in the world. Apple markets here because it knows it can sell here. A developing country, not so much. The other thing to consider is this is that the U.S. is Apple's country of origin. Obligatory car analogy: Mercedes-Benz vehicles are rarer here in the U.S. than they are in Germany; that doesn't mean they're any less of an awesome premium vehicle.
 
Mr. K6 said:
Well that's the thing, better for whom? Us? Them? The competitors? Apple has consistently delivered a seamless, high performing, and trouble-free experience with its devices. No other company has that track record. That's not to say its perfect, which Apple fanboys will argue for, but it's pretty damn good.
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Hardly. Please stop taking Jobstacy(TM) and come back to the real world. I've been asked to fix other people's iDevices so many times it isn't funny.

Two recent examples come to mind :

1.In one case, I was helping a friend transfer her data and settings from her iPhone 4 to her new iPhone 5. The settings and stuff on the iPhone 4 were backed up to the magic cloud and then the iPhone 5 was told to restore the data from the backup on her magic cloud. Each and every time, the restore failed with a mysterious "Could not restore backup message" that told me absolutely nothing about what the error was.

Because Apple refuses to support industry standard methods of accessing data on their phones (such as USB MS) and because I do not use Windows or Mac OS X on my primary computer and, because, even if I did, I would never install the iTunes bloatware, the "cloud" was the only option available to me for backing up and restoring data (the iPhone 5 had not, at the time (being brand new), been reversed engineered to work with the FOSS tools).

As you can imagine, having to backup and restore several gigabytes of data over an internet connection and then having to do that multiple times is very time consuming. Had this been an Android device, I would have simply rooted it and pulled up LogCat to view a detailed log of whatever error was impeding the backups. But this is the iPhone and, in Apple's ultimate quest to make the user as helpless as possible, there is no way to get these devices to give you a useful error.

After over an hour and a half of messing around with the device, I finally figured out that a third party program (one vetted and approved by Apple, no less, in their "app store") was causing the issue. Which one, I do not know because I simply told it not to back up third party apps (as I hadn't the time to manually toggle on and off dozens of different apps and wait for the backup/restore).

2.In another example, I had a coworker ask me to take a look at her personal iPad. She was unable to update it to the latest iOS. iTunes would download the iOS update and then, at the very end, give a mysterious and completely unhelpful error message about how the "network connection had timed out" (keep in mind that this was after the download had completed). A Google search revealed many other people having this problem but no solutions for this problem. iTunes was uninstalled and reinstalled. Windows was reinstalled. Multiple internet connections were tried. After spending hours trying to fix this problem, I finally just found a location to manually download the iOS update and manually put it in the appropriate folder on the hard drive.

For example, look at their phones: they consistently have fast or even the fastest hardware that's also pretty damn nice looking, top tier screens, a consistent but full-featured OS, a proven app store, proven music service (iTunes), and fantastic support, just to name a few things. That and they were the first company to really push an entire platform like that. Google is finally catching up and at a much cheaper price, and that's why they're gaining market share, but they still have to compete against Apple's legacy (i.e. people who won't switch because Apple has always worked well for them).
Click to expand...

CPU wise, a Cortex A15 is faster than the A6X. It's also not a fair comparison; iOS is the functional equivalent of DOS, and, like DOS, requires a less powerful processor to run. Android, on the other hand, is far more flexible, far more functional, and allows for true multitasking. This of course, uses more CPU power.
 
damicatz said:
Hardly. Please stop taking Jobstacy(TM) and come back to the real world. I've been asked to fix other people's iDevices so many times it isn't funny.
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This kind of tin foil hat arrogance is why people don't take many tech geeks seriously. Watch your real world get demolished below:
damicatz said:
Two recent examples come to mind :

1.In one case, I was helping a friend transfer her data and settings from her iPhone 4 to her new iPhone 5. The settings and stuff on the iPhone 4 were backed up to the magic cloud and then the iPhone 5 was told to restore the data from the backup on her magic cloud. Each and every time, the restore failed with a mysterious "Could not restore backup message" that told me absolutely nothing about what the error was.

Because Apple refuses to support industry standard methods of accessing data on their phones (such as USB MS) and because I do not use Windows or Mac OS X on my primary computer and, because, even if I did, I would never install the iTunes bloatware, the "cloud" was the only option available to me for backing up and restoring data (the iPhone 5 had not, at the time (being brand new), been reversed engineered to work with the FOSS tools).

As you can imagine, having to backup and restore several gigabytes of data over an internet connection and then having to do that multiple times is very time consuming. Had this been an Android device, I would have simply rooted it and pulled up LogCat to view a detailed log of whatever error was impeding the backups. But this is the iPhone and, in Apple's ultimate quest to make the user as helpless as possible, there is no way to get these devices to give you a useful error.

After over an hour and a half of messing around with the device, I finally figured out that a third party program (one vetted and approved by Apple, no less, in their "app store") was causing the issue. Which one, I do not know because I simply told it not to back up third party apps (as I hadn't the time to manually toggle on and off dozens of different apps and wait for the backup/restore).
Click to expand...
Wait, so you dislike Apple because iCloud didn't work seamlessly, despite your inept attempts to circumvent the official and proper ways to backup and restore devices (iCloud, iCloud Backup, iTunes Backup). This kind of obnoxious hipster blaming I see all the time from supposed "geeks" and it ruins our credit within the real world. "I'm too cool to use the corporate official methods, but I'm still going to blame them when I can't figure it out myself." :rolleyes:

When I first turned on my iPhone 5, had all my contacts immediately thanks to iCloud, before I even looked into backing up my 3GS. I was surprised and pleased. My co-workers with iPhone 5's (physicians and student physicians; app support for the medical community is great on the iPhone, but that's another story) had similar experiences. Right now, I can't access my Gmail at this moment because of a 502 error. This is the third or so time this has happened to me in the last 5 years, but by your definition that means Google is a shitty company and no one should buy their products. Get real. Technology is wonderful and many companies put out awesome products, but not everything is 100% compatible 100% of the time.

damicatz said:
2.In another example, I had a coworker ask me to take a look at her personal iPad. She was unable to update it to the latest iOS. iTunes would download the iOS update and then, at the very end, give a mysterious and completely unhelpful error message about how the "network connection had timed out" (keep in mind that this was after the download had completed). A Google search revealed many other people having this problem but no solutions for this problem. iTunes was uninstalled and reinstalled. Windows was reinstalled. Multiple internet connections were tried. After spending hours trying to fix this problem, I finally just found a location to manually download the iOS update and manually put it in the appropriate folder on the hard drive.
Click to expand...
When I first got my 3GS in late 2009, iTunes wouldn't load music on it properly. It turns out with the next update as long as I didn't screw around and try to disable services, everything worked fine. About two weeks ago I couldn't FaceTime my lady friend because Apple's network was down. Neither of us cried about it. These are regular occurrences with any technology. This very forum is riddled with troubleshooting inquiries, most much more prevalent, and more important unfixable, than anything you've offered about Apple. I find it very hypocritical that people hold Apple up to some perfect standard just so they can knock it down if it slightly misses it.
damicatz said:
CPU wise, a Cortex A15 is faster than the A6X. It's also not a fair comparison; iOS is the functional equivalent of DOS, and, like DOS, requires a less powerful processor to run. Android, on the other hand, is far more flexible, far more functional, and allows for true multitasking. This of course, uses more CPU power.
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Wait, so Apple designs an OS that complements its hardware and that makes you upset? Maybe you should read some reviews that shows how the steep competition stacks up: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6440/google-nexus-4-review . Apple comes out on top as the slimest, fastest device, with the best battery life. Is it difficult/impossible to root? Sure. Do I care? Not one bit. Same with the other 99.99% of the population. Having an Android phone that can overclock is neat. However I'm not 15 anymore and I need a phone that's reliable and offers the best hardware. That's the iPhone 5 right now. The point is there's too many of these ridiculous and illogical arguments that come off as "I hate Apple just because they're sometimes better."
 
Mr. K6 said:
This kind of tin foil hat arrogance is why people don't take many tech geeks seriously. Watch your real world get demolished below:
Wait, so you dislike Apple because iCloud didn't work seamlessly, despite your inept attempts to circumvent the official and proper ways to backup and restore devices (iCloud, iCloud Backup, iTunes Backup). This kind of obnoxious hipster blaming I see all the time from supposed "geeks" and it ruins our credit within the real world. "I'm too cool to use the corporate official methods, but I'm still going to blame them when I can't figure it out myself." :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

My "inept" attempts to circumvent the official and proper ways to backup and restore devices only happened after the official way (Blessed by His Holiness, Steve Jobs, Lord High Saint of Cupertino, of course) failed to "just work" (tm).

What is inept (or sinister, depending on your point of view) is the fact that iOS does not support industry standard methods for accessing data. Requiring the user to use proprietary software in order to retrieve their data is unethical; it would take no effort for Apple to support USB Mass Storage or *standard* MTP.

When I first turned on my iPhone 5, had all my contacts immediately thanks to iCloud, before I even looked into backing up my 3GS.
Click to expand...

The point is that, in my case, it didn't do this.

I was surprised and pleased. My co-workers with iPhone 5's (physicians and student physicians; app support for the medical community is great on the iPhone, but that's another story) had similar experiences.
Click to expand...

The point is again, that, in my case, it didn't do this.

Right now, I can't access my Gmail at this moment because of a 502 error. This is the third or so time this has happened to me in the last 5 years, but by your definition that means Google is a shitty company and no one should buy their products. Get real. Technology is wonderful and many companies put out awesome products, but not everything is 100% compatible 100% of the time.
Click to expand...

Google doesn't claim that everything "just works".

When I first got my 3GS in late 2009, iTunes wouldn't load music on it properly. It turns out with the next update as long as I didn't screw around and try to disable services, everything worked fine. About two weeks ago I couldn't FaceTime my lady friend because Apple's network was down. Neither of us cried about it. These are regular occurrences with any technology. This very forum is riddled with troubleshooting inquiries, most much more prevalent, and more important unfixable, than anything you've offered about Apple. I find it very hypocritical that people hold Apple up to some perfect standard just so they can knock it down if it slightly misses it.
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Apple is the one who created the standard by stating that everything "just works".

Wait, so Apple designs an OS that complements its hardware and that makes you upset?
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Nice straw man. No, Apple designs an OS that is so limited in functionality that a 486 could run it fast.

I mean, using Apple's logic, everyone should replace Windows with FreeDOS. After all, it is almost certain that there are some programs that FreeDOS could run faster because there aren't a bunch of other programs running in the background.

Maybe you should read some reviews that shows how the steep competition stacks up: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6440/google-nexus-4-review . Apple comes out on top as the slimest, fastest device, with the best battery life. Is it difficult/impossible to root? Sure. Do I care? Not one bit. Same with the other 99.99% of the population. Having an Android phone that can overclock is neat. However I'm not 15 anymore and I need a phone that's reliable and offers the best hardware. That's the iPhone 5 right now. The point is there's too many of these ridiculous and illogical arguments that come off as "I hate Apple just because they're sometimes better."
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If this is true, then why is Android outselling iOS?

The Nexus 4 is also not a Cortex A15.
 
damicatz said:
My "inept" attempts to circumvent the official and proper ways to backup and restore devices only happened after the official way (Blessed by His Holiness, Steve Jobs, Lord High Saint of Cupertino, of course) failed to "just work" (tm).
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But you only tried one way to make it work, and furthermore found that it was a 3rd party app the threw a wrench in the process. Personally I'd rather have a more open app market that allows more apps that may or may not "just work." You fail to see the hypocrisy in complaining that Apple offers a closed OS, but then also complain when it branches out to more apps. It seems like you're just here to complain.
damicatz said:
What is inept (or sinister, depending on your point of view) is the fact that iOS does not support industry standard methods for accessing data. Requiring the user to use proprietary software in order to retrieve their data is unethical; it would take no effort for Apple to support USB Mass Storage or *standard* MTP.
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So you think, but you don't know for sure, do you? It might be that there's a bunch of inefficiencies/performance losses in doing so that Apple does not want to take on. I'd like to load up my iPhone and just move my music over into a folder on it, that would be nice. However, for the ~3-4 times a year I update my music collection and then my iPhone, it's not a terrible bother, so it's not worth complaining about to me.
damicatz said:
The point is that, in my case, it didn't do this.
The point is again, that, in my case, it didn't do this.
Google doesn't claim that everything "just works".
Apple is the one who created the standard by stating that everything "just works".
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And it mostly does, especially within their official software and their official systems, and more importantly raised the bar for the competition. Apple has shown that QA matters, but I'm not so naive or spiteful to assume that they have 100% perfect QA, and I'm not personally insulted when something doesn't work. You found a glitch, be a responsible consumer and go report it to the manufacturer. We do it here all the time for nvidia, AMD, intel, OCZ, Samsung, etc. etc.
damicatz said:
Nice straw man. No, Apple designs an OS that is so limited in functionality that a 486 could run it fast.
I mean, using Apple's logic, everyone should replace Windows with FreeDOS. After all, it is almost certain that there are some programs that FreeDOS could run faster because there aren't a bunch of other programs running in the background.
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Speaking of a straw man, limited in functionality how? It makes phone calls, texts, browses the web, has email, a music player/storage, acts as a hotspot/tether, plays games, runs 100,000's apps for all other kinds of uses. Where is this limitation you think everyone is missing so (which they aren't). If you want to extend it to desktop usage, sure, there's more I can do on my PC than on a Mac and that's why I own one, but it seems like you're only talking about iOS.
damicatz said:
If this is true, then why is Android outselling iOS?
The Nexus 4 is also not a Cortex A15.
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Wow, for someone who seems to dislike straw men you sure make a lot of them. Apple's phones on average sell for $600+. That is a very high cost for many people. Android phones sell for much less and there are many more of them. You're arguing why does Toyota outsell Mercedes-Benz and I'm trying not to laugh at you.
 
heatlesssun said:
Insane trolling, SkribbelKat and his kitty p0rn must be here.
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More quick to resort to name calling and aggression than usual when someone politely points out that you're off topic, huh? Those other people really did get you upset and now you think that it's okay to take out those feelings on me...though I think from watching you post in the past, you tend to be unable to keep track of who upset you with what thing and when. :(
 
SkribbelKat said:
though I think from watching you post in the past, you tend to be unable to keep track of who upset you with what thing and when. :(
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Yes, you should know by now that to him, all the world outside of himself is a single entity. One person has a problem, and suddenly it's "people" have a problem, a group of people are arguing and some how that is equal to him single handedly holding an argument by himself.
 
Tudz said:
Yes, you should know by now that to him, all the world outside of himself is a single entity. One person has a problem, and suddenly it's "people" have a problem, a group of people are arguing and some how that is equal to him single handedly holding an argument by himself.
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So true.

So anyhow, did Apple's stock recover yet? Does that really matter? Huge swings are kinda just an indication of crazy investors trying to make a few extra $$ in trading and sometimes don't have a lot to do with the company.
 
SkribbelKat said:
So true.

So anyhow, did Apple's stock recover yet? Does that really matter? Huge swings are kinda just an indication of crazy investors trying to make a few extra $$ in trading and sometimes don't have a lot to do with the company.
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It hasn't recovered, but nor has it fallen "another 20%" as far as I can see.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investin...=50&lf=1&lf2=4&lf3=0&type=2&size=2&style=1013

So there was no selling panic after the initial drop on the 5th, it kinda just went back up slightly and has fallen back to the same level, not considerably higher nor lower.
 
Mr. K6 said:
But you only tried one way to make it work, and furthermore found that it was a 3rd party app the threw a wrench in the process. Personally I'd rather have a more open app market that allows more apps that may or may not "just work." You fail to see the hypocrisy in complaining that Apple offers a closed OS, but then also complain when it branches out to more apps. It seems like you're just here to complain.
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But Apple insists that the purpose of locking down everything to the official app store is so that they can ensure a high quality of applications. Obviously, that hasn't worked.

In addition, I was prevented from checking any sort of logs to find out WHICH app was causing the problem.

So you think, but you don't know for sure, do you? It might be that there's a bunch of inefficiencies/performance losses in doing so that Apple does not want to take on. I'd like to load up my iPhone and just move my music over into a folder on it, that would be nice. However, for the ~3-4 times a year I update my music collection and then my iPhone, it's not a terrible bother, so it's not worth complaining about to me.
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There is no performance loss from adding mass storage support.


And it mostly does, especially within their official software and their official systems, and more importantly raised the bar for the competition. Apple has shown that QA matters, but I'm not so naive or spiteful to assume that they have 100% perfect QA, and I'm not personally insulted when something doesn't work. You found a glitch, be a responsible consumer and go report it to the manufacturer. We do it here all the time for nvidia, AMD, intel, OCZ, Samsung, etc. etc.

Speaking of a straw man, limited in functionality how? It makes phone calls, texts, browses the web, has email, a music player/storage, acts as a hotspot/tether, plays games, runs 100,000's apps for all other kinds of uses. Where is this limitation you think everyone is missing so (which they aren't). If you want to extend it to desktop usage, sure, there's more I can do on my PC than on a Mac and that's why I own one, but it seems like you're only talking about iOS.
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Let me know when iOS can do this :
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tablifiedapps.lilypadhd&hl=en

Let me know when iOS can do this :
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...tLnRvdWNodHlwZS5zd2lmdGtleS50YWJsZXQuZnVsbCJd

Let me know when Apple figures out how to implement a file system in iOS so that you can actually share files between applications rather than having to create a copy in each separate application (an even bigger problem since iOS and Apple have no SD card support).

Let me know when Apple releases a device and an iOS version with SD card support.

Let me know when you get an e-mail client that allows you to attach any type of file from within the e-mail client. (This is bullshit and just plain bad design).

Let me know when Apple figures out how to make iOS resolution independent.

Wow, for someone who seems to dislike straw men you sure make a lot of them. Apple's phones on average sell for $600+. That is a very high cost for many people. Android phones sell for much less and there are many more of them. You're arguing why does Toyota outsell Mercedes-Benz and I'm trying not to laugh at you.
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Now you're moving the goalpost. The iPhone 4S can be had for $99 with contract and is still for sale. If, as you say, 99.9% of the population want features that are found in the iPhone (and features, you strongly imply that the iPhone is best at), then there would logically be more sales. Since the iPhone has no where near 99.9% market share, your statement is false.
 
There are a lot of cases where Apple's shit is just flat out broken. Here's a few from recent memory:

- Antennagate. "You're holding it wrong" was quite nice to hear from a man who favored aesthetics over function, which coincidentally was the reason for the issue in the first place.

- Their proprietary chargers and hardware cost a very high price tag.

- Their proprietary components come with connectors that make it impossible to buy aftermarket components. The new iMacs and MBPs use a proprietary connector on a Samsung SSD that means you can't buy any other SSD to replace it. Quite simply not possible.

- They purposely make their shit hard to take apart. It's not just a design choice to keep it thinner but rather to sell their Applecare warranty package. You can't upgrade your RAM unless you pay 3x the going price when you configure the thing. Don't forget gluing batteries to the chassis for no reason at all other than $$$

- People had serious issues with the latest OS X update and software compatibility.

- Maps that the Aussies have claimed can get you killed.

- The high res of their MBPr causes performance issues. Though it's a great screen, the flickering and FPS drops people have been experiencing still haven't been addressed, instead you've got to use a webkit to root out the issues:

In both of our MacBook Pro with Retina Display reviews (13-inch & 15-inch), I pointed out a big downside to the user experience today: UI performance in some applications is significantly reduced compared to non-Retina models. I couldn't find a direct cause for the issue, just that whatever work Apple does to make OS X look like OS X ends up requiring quite a bit of CPU power, and the workload scales with resolution. I've seen this in applications like Mail and Safari, although it's present in more than just that.
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/6495/...erformance-on-macbook-pro-with-retina-display

- Price. This is the biggest one. Seriously, is their shit really worth 4x the going price of the hardware?

This isn't to say they don't make great products, they do, but those products are the iPhone and the iPad. Outside of that they're mediocre, and even with those two you've got comparable Android alternatives in the Galaxy Nexus 10 and the Samsung S3. The HTC phones also have way better displays than anyone else on the market.

This persistent aura of invincibility is really fucking annoying and usually comes from the mouths of those who have no idea what the hell they're talking about. Are Apple products good? Yes. Are they great and have fewer issues than others on the market? No, it's simply perceived that way because of the plethora of bad products in the Android and Windows camp. If you're comparing an Acer $500 laptop to an $2000 MBP then you're being a tool. If you compare a $800 ThinkPad to a $2000 MacBook then you'll realize just what the hell I'm going on about...
 
I should mention that Apple have the best SoC for phones and tablets in the market right now, though. It really is fantastic, offering class-leading CPU and GPU performance.

It likely won't sit at the top for long, though, as the A15-based Tegra 4 is due to be released early next year along with the new Snapdragon and we'll be seeing more Samsung Exynos A15-based SoCs as well.
 
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