Microsoft's First Windows 8 TV Spot: Love It or 8 It

heatlesssun said:
Define "stays out of your way."
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http://i.imgur.com/EoNAM.png

:) I love the HUD. Still needs a bit of work, but boy is it magical...

That's the difference, imo. Where Unity has made strides in the productivity department -- HUD allows you to avoid using a touchpad/mouse for a lot of programs and actions -- Microsoft decided that it's better to use your fingers on your screen...

Which do you think is easier for getting work done?

Not that the traditional desktop doesn't work, but Microsoft has decided to not expand it at all. Instead, they've opted to actually dumb it down
 
pelo said:
pretty much, but that depends on what you want to do. God forbid you start changing some options :D
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Sure, but the kinds of options that one can change in Metro are things not generally found on tablets like drive encryption and even then those options my not necessarily be difficult to change with a touch device. Not saying it's perfect but the idea that you can't easily change things that are tablet focused with touch I think is misleading.
 
Diseaseboy said:
I agree with a previous post- find it interested they only show touch screens interacting with Win 8.
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Then you'll find it real interesting that tablet users are what they should be marketing too, since 98% of people who use Windows on a desktop only get it with a new PC regardless, and tablets are an fast increasing market where MS is the underdog.
 
pelo said:
http://i.imgur.com/EoNAM.png

:) I love the HUD. Still needs a bit of work, but boy is it magical...

That's the difference, imo. Where Unity has made strides in the productivity department -- HUD allows you to avoid using a touchpad/mouse for a lot of programs and actions -- Microsoft decided that it's better to use your fingers on your screen...

Which do you think is easier for getting work done?

Not that the traditional desktop doesn't work, but Microsoft has decided to not expand it at all. Instead, they've opted to actually dumb it down
Click to expand...

What is dumbed down about it? The big change is the start screen instead of the start menu, and you can open more programs with fewer clicks with the start screen than the start menu. Sounds expanded to me, personally I don't feel I need searching since I know where everything I use is.
 
pelo said:
http://i.imgur.com/EoNAM.png

:) I love the HUD. Still needs a bit of work, but boy is it magical...

That's the difference, imo. Where Unity has made strides in the productivity department -- HUD allows you to avoid using a touchpad/mouse for a lot of programs and actions -- Microsoft decided that it's better to use your fingers on your screen...

Which do you think is easier for getting work done?

Not that the traditional desktop doesn't work, but Microsoft has decided to not expand it at all. Instead, they've opted to actually dumb it down
Click to expand...

Not really sure what's so magical about this. All of the stuff you're showing here has had keyboard shortcuts in Windows forever that work in Windows 8.
 
heatlesssun said:
Sure, but the kinds of options that one can change in Metro are things not generally found on tablets like drive encryption and even then those options my not necessarily be difficult to change with a touch device. Not saying it's perfect but the idea that you can't easily change things that are tablet focused with touch I think is misleading.
Click to expand...

The point is that you don't retain functionality. Somewhere you're going to sacrifice something. That's pretty much been the overwhelming view of Win8, because regardless of who the user is and how they use it, somewhere something is missing. That's a direct result of attempting to be everything for everyone regardless of what device its on.

Not that this isn't attainable, I think it is, but it requires an OS that's going to recognize inputs by itself. For example, if you plug in a keyboard, it switches to a traditional desktop or avoids the on-screen keyboard. The same can be achieved with a docked device, where a tablet can be either a tablet, or, when docked, become your desktop.

I think that's what MS is gunning for, but this first attempt is pretty damn lackluster. There's no standout feature or reason to buy this over a competing product, whether Android or iOS or win7 laptop. It's a sort of "It'll do everything, but we're not sure why"
 
heatlesssun said:
Not really sure what's so magical about this. All of the stuff you're showing here has had keyboard shortcuts in Windows forever that work in Windows 8.
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It interacts with programs as well, meaning you don't have to remember shortcuts. CTRL+F4 closes your tabs, but what about reopening the last one? history? bookmarks page? and the other 50 options for your browser that have keyboard shortcuts? Are you going to remember them all? No, and why should you?

And it isn't just browser. Here's it working with gimp
http://i.imgur.com/El5KT.png

That's what I mean when I say flexibility and adding useful features. You don't have to go digging around a massive UI like Gimp's to find the option you're looking for. With HUD, it's just type it in (it doesn't even have to be accurate) and it'll bring it up.

Win8 does nothing to further the desktop, it only leaves it behind.
 
pelo said:
It interacts with programs as well, meaning you don't have to remember shortcuts. CTRL+F4 closes your tabs, but what about reopening the last one? history? bookmarks page? and the other 50 options for your browser that have keyboard shortcuts? Are you going to remember them all? No, and why should you?

And it isn't just browser. Here's it working with gimp
http://i.imgur.com/El5KT.png

That's what I mean when I say flexibility and adding useful features. You don't have to go digging around a massive UI like Gimp's to find the option you're looking for. With HUD, it's just type it in (it doesn't even have to be accurate) and it'll bring it up.

Win8 does nothing to further the desktop, it only leaves it behind.
Click to expand...

Seems fairly useless. Except for complicated programs like GIMP, or Photoshop, where does the average user need that? Certainly, sitting in IE today, I haven't thought 'gee I wish I could search for settings', or using Netflix metro app to watch movies, or playing blu-rays in mpc-hc, or ripping blu-rays, and various other things I've done today. Reminds me of the people who say they hate bloat, because adding major features to make using high-end complicated apps that are mostly used by professions who already know their stuff strikes me as 'bloat'. The Windows 8 is enhanced if you use it right, I can open every program I have faster than in Windows 7, and since that's all the start menu does, I don't see how it's not better. Metro Apps are just icing on the cake, to have secure, simple apps that I don't have to get from random possibly infected web sources is very nice.
 
devil22 said:
Your 'horrible OS' comment was a reply to me? Because it is not even barely related to anything I said before it appeared. And if that's how you feel, I will say, I have already shown it's not ignorance, and it's actually you who espouses ignorance many times in many threads here.
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No, that was a generic post. I had a typo in my last post, it should of been bothering not bothered. The ignorance was in regard to my opinions on Win 8 which are quite well backed up. As for your last sentence, feel free to prove it. I am quite careful on what I post and know for a fact you can't back that particular claim up.
 
heatlesssun said:
Define "stays out of your way."
Click to expand...

I'd say a start "screen" that fills my entire work space as opposed to a menu which only takes up the necessary amount of space would qualify as being "in my way". :D But in general, excessive UI "features" which interrupt workflow more than necessary is what I'd define as being in my way.

I'm not a fan of Unity either, since it feels like an unecessary obstacle to me.
 
I've recommended to all my clients to demand that any new PC they purchase come with Windows 7. A phone OS doesn't belong on a desktop. Metro looks like crap.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
No, that was a generic post. I had a typo in my last post, it should of been bothering not bothered. The ignorance was in regard to my opinions on Win 8 which are quite well backed up. As for your last sentence, feel free to prove it. I am quite careful on what I post and know for a fact you can't back that particular claim up.
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I have to back up my claim, but you do not? That's a strange standard. My claims are quite well backed up, but it not pertinent to sit here and tell you that all day, unless you persists in challenging me about it. Until I see some your statements backed up, I'm going to conclude you're blowing smoke.
 
Tudz said:
I'd say a start "screen" that fills my entire work space as opposed to a menu which only takes up the necessary amount of space would qualify as being "in my way". :D But in general, excessive UI "features" which interrupt workflow more than necessary is what I'd define as being in my way.

I'm not a fan of Unity either, since it feels like an unecessary obstacle to me.
Click to expand...

What kind of work are you doing that requires you to have the desktop visible while you are launching a new program, that you are going to then switch to? Personally I like opening every program I have in 2 clicks, and think that's less 'in my way'.
 
PC manufacturers are already reporting less than lukewarm interest in Windows 8 PC's.

It just feels good knowing this OS is going to fail so Microsoft learns it's lesson.
 
devil22 said:
I have to back up my claim, but you do not? That's a strange standard. My claims are quite well backed up, but it not pertinent to sit here and tell you that all day, unless you persists in challenging me about it. Until I see some your statements backed up, I'm going to conclude you're blowing smoke.
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That is why I called your claim ignorant. As I said in the first reply, there are months of posts from me going back and forth with heatlessun and others over this. If you choose not to inform yourself, then be my guest. The burden of searching and reposting everything is not upon me. I only bothered to even respond because of the condescending tone in your quote of my one post. I don't have to further back up my claim because I have already backed it up with months of debate, months that I don't recall ever seeing your name involved.
 
devil22 said:
What kind of work are you doing that requires you to have the desktop visible while you are launching a new program, that you are going to then switch to? Personally I like opening every program I have in 2 clicks, and think that's less 'in my way'.
Click to expand...

I often watch TV/movies in the corner of my screen while doing other things. Also when I'm rendering videos of experimental data for work I like to be able to see what's happening while I'm doing other things. I haven't tried rendering the video in W8, but often opening other things over the top of the window would cause video hitching because the program is capturing the video card output (which I know is retarded, but it's better than having to rewrite my scripts to run in other programs and there's not a lot of good 3D plotting software anyway).

But hey, "in the way" is relative to how you use your computer, which is why an OS should have options instead of just forcing you to do one way or another, especially an OS which is used widely in many applications and environments ;)
 
At first I hated win 8. But the more I use it the more i am beginning to like it. It does have some cool features.
 
Oh heatlesssun, I wish you would just disappear. How much is MS paying you again?
 
pelo said:
The point is that you don't retain functionality. Somewhere you're going to sacrifice something. That's pretty much been the overwhelming view of Win8, because regardless of who the user is and how they use it, somewhere something is missing. That's a direct result of attempting to be everything for everyone regardless of what device its on.
Click to expand...

Can you point out an example of something that just flat out missing in Windows 8 beyond the Start Menu, Start Button and Desktop Widgets? I hear people say that there's stuff missing in Windows 8, I get that the things I mentioned are, but I don't know of anything that I can't do in Windows 8 that could do in Windows 7.

pelo said:
Not that this isn't attainable, I think it is, but it requires an OS that's going to recognize inputs by itself. For example, if you plug in a keyboard, it switches to a traditional desktop or avoids the on-screen keyboard. The same can be achieved with a docked device, where a tablet can be either a tablet, or, when docked, become your desktop.
Click to expand...

But Windows 8 supports touch and pen and mice and keyboards simultaneously. If I'm using my convertible tablet PC for instance I can type on the keyboard, then I can touch the screen and in a Metro app the onscreen keyboard pops up even though a keyboard is attached.

pelo said:
I think that's what MS is gunning for, but this first attempt is pretty damn lackluster. There's no standout feature or reason to buy this over a competing product, whether Android or iOS or win7 laptop. It's a sort of "It'll do everything, but we're not sure why"
Click to expand...

The stand out feature is that a Windows 8 tablet can do everything a laptop does and tablet does in one device. One piece of hardware, one set of apps, one set of files.
 
I also thought it was interesting that everyone magically has a touch screen. Shows how out-of-touch Ballmer really is.
 
pelo said:
Win8 does nothing to further the desktop, it only leaves it behind.
Click to expand...

Microsoft obviously spent most of its efforts in Windows 8 with the Modern UI. Really though, things like HUD are neat but give the current market place where desktops have reached saturation and maturity with little to negative growth, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Microsoft to spend a lot of energy on the desktop at this time, it already owns that market and there's really no way that market is going to see big growth anymore.

I'm not saying that Microsoft shouldn't have done more with the desktop but I don't think more people would really care, the touch and tablet features are more critical at this point than enhancements to a market they already dominate.
 
heatlesssun said:
Microsoft obviously spent most of its efforts in Windows 8 with the Modern UI. Really though, things like HUD are neat but give the current market place where desktops have reached saturation and maturity with little to negative growth, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Microsoft to spend a lot of energy on the desktop at this time, it already owns that market and there's really no way that market is going to see big growth anymore.

I'm not saying that Microsoft shouldn't have done more with the desktop but I don't think more people would really care, the touch and tablet features are more critical at this point than enhancements to a market they already dominate.
Click to expand...
On a typical day at work I deal with 20ish SMBs, plus home users, with a total computer base of 600 computers... out of those 600, two are touchscreen. That's TWO out of 600, or 0.33 of one percent, yet Windows 8 is designed around touch screen functionality. Microsoft's biggest single problem with Windows 8 is that do not have a mobile OS and a desktop OS... They have a mobile OS that can also be used on a desktop.
 
Tudz said:
I'd say a start "screen" that fills my entire work space as opposed to a menu which only takes up the necessary amount of space would qualify as being "in my way". :D But in general, excessive UI "features" which interrupt workflow more than necessary is what I'd define as being in my way.
Click to expand...

But in either situation you can only interact with the Start Menu or Start Screen when it's up so while the Start Menu uses less space, all you can do is look at other parts of the screen which in all honestly is something that I totally don't miss in Windows 8 as generally when I'm in the Start Menu that's all I'm dealing with. Of course with multiple monitors you don't have the entire work space filled and I've heard a number of people with Windows 8 on multiple monitor setups say they wish they could keep the Start Screen on one monitor permanently as a sort of dashboard .
 
Cobalt35 said:
On a typical day at work I deal with 20ish SMBs, plus home users, with a total computer base of 600 computers... out of those 600, two are touchscreen. That's TWO out of 600, or 0.33 of one percent, yet Windows 8 is designed around touch screen functionality. Microsoft's biggest single problem with Windows 8 is that do not have a mobile OS and a desktop OS... They have a mobile OS that can also be used on a desktop.
Click to expand...

Well of course there aren't a lot of touch screen Windows devices in the market currently as no version of Windows prior to Windows 8 had any design consideration for them. I think it's safe to say that the number of Windows touch devices is going to grow substantially even if Windows 8 is a failure.
 
heatlesssun said:
Well of course there aren't a lot of touch screen Windows devices in the market currently as no version of Windows prior to Windows 8 had any design consideration for them. I think it's safe to say that the number of Windows touch devices is going to grow substantially even if Windows 8 is a failure.
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Fair enough. I just think at this stage they would have been wiser to do both.
 
My experience with windows 8...
while in desktop mode, click on a picture, it opens the full screen viewer, great...
but if you want to view the next picture in the folder....
you have to go back to desktop mode, then select the next picture,
or open the picture program in metro, and select that folder.

You open up xbox music.... instead of defaulting to your music, it shows you crap that you can buy,
ok, you can have it default to that.. but guess what that's not the default.

You can also select files that won't play in xbox music, but do play in media player.


Most of the problems are resolved by buying start8 for 5.00.... and using metro sparingly.


It's an utter shame... it could of been great. On a side note, my mother loves it.... I guess they did something right... it just wasn't for me.
 
avddreamr said:
My experience with windows 8...
while in desktop mode, click on a picture, it opens the full screen viewer, great...
but if you want to view the next picture in the folder....
you have to go back to desktop mode, then select the next picture,
or open the picture program in metro, and select that folder.[/QUITE]

I believe that this has been fixed in the latest Photo update.

avddreamr said:
It's an utter shame... it could of been great. On a side note, my mother loves it.... I guess they did something right... it just wasn't for me.
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It's really not surprising that on a PC hardware enthusiast site that Windows 8 isn't popular. I think average people are going to overall like it on new hardware or not really care much one way or another.
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apple has and android have a stranglehold on the touchscreen market, MS wants a piece of the pie.

I don't really know what people are pissed about, this move was predictable.
 
stealthy123 said:
apple has and android have a stranglehold on the touchscreen market, MS wants a piece of the pie.

I don't really know what people are pissed about, this move was predictable.
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Sigh.

Offering a fancy mobile device touch interface on mobile devices was actually overdue for MS (Windows 7.5 I think).

Foisting a fancy mobile device touch interface on desktops and laptops is a ridiculous.
 
Cobalt35 said:
On a typical day at work I deal with 20ish SMBs, plus home users, with a total computer base of 600 computers... out of those 600, two are touchscreen. That's TWO out of 600, or 0.33 of one percent, yet Windows 8 is designed around touch screen functionality. Microsoft's biggest single problem with Windows 8 is that do not have a mobile OS and a desktop OS... They have a mobile OS that can also be used on a desktop.
Click to expand...

I manage more users but I do probably same as you except I don't deal with resies. I have over 200 all in ones with touch screen, not a single user uses the touch. Why? They hate smudging. plus its less efficient then a mouse.
 
heatlesssun said:
avddreamr said:
I believe that this has been fixed in the latest Photo update.



It's really not surprising that on a PC hardware enthusiast site that Windows 8 isn't popular. I think average people are going to overall like it on new hardware or not really care much one way or another.
Click to expand...

Apparently you are correct, it was fixed with the latest photo update.... as long as the folder
happens to be in your pictures library. If the folder happens to be in your desktop.. then no soup for you.

And yeah... the average person will love this thing, assuming that it can get it work. I'm still not sold on the start screen..
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