Create your own SFF case ( wishlist)

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Jacob666

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I've read a thread about the Silverstone SGO8 and there is a user "<orangensaft" that has some wishes for a SG09

----------------------------------------

- no ODD
- no 3,5'' Drive
- can fit two 2,5'' Drives (SSD&HDD)
- can fit a ATX PSU
- can fit a GTX 580
- can fit something like a Mugen 2
- same size as a SG05/06
- smaller footprint than a SG05/06 (only about as big as the front of them!)

----------------------------------------------

I like most of the ideas. The idea of removing the optical disc drive seems like a good idea. I almost never use my drive. And removing the drive would give a little more space and better airflow. The most important thing for me though is that would make the front of the case more clean and appealing. Just buy an external drive and use it when you from time to time need it. The only problem with <orangensaft's wishlist is that I still would like the option to have a 3,5" hard disk installed.

For me the design of the case is very important. Some of the case manufacturers designs are horrible if you ask me. I like the design of a few cases , but they also have their problems

Lan Gear DA BOX 100 :
Very small microATX, stylish :cool:
Bad product quality :mad:

Lian Li PC-V354B
Overall nice design,fan speed controller, high build quality :cool:
Front is too ugly, lightning like in a disco :mad:

Lian Li PC-Q25
Pretty clean design, high build quality :cool:
No USB outlets on the front, Mini ITX :mad:

Shuttle XPC Z77R5
classy design, easy to assemble :cool:
want a more high end motherboard, power supply, not yet available to buy :mad:

Silverstone FT03
Unusual design, other people will notice it :cool:
Side plastic panel ugly, slim optical drive not pretty

Silverstone SG08
Good design :cool:
Not to happy about the power supply and the cable mess :mad:

Silverstone TJ08-E
Good design, excellent cooling, low noise, low cost :cool:
Top of case is ugly, 3,5" drive bay also bad idea

Now I just need a manufacturer to create a case where they take the good stuff from my list and create the best they can think of. I need a very small stylish micro ATX case with a clean front without any drive bays. Build quality needs to be excellent. Noise / heat should be tackled thoughtfully. Money is not a problem

What do you think of my wishes and what would be on your wish list to create the best small computer case?
 
My ideal case:

Form factor should be like a Shuttle.
Mini-ITX motherboard, raised (giving room for a backplate).
Slimline BD or DVD at bottom, partially underneath the motherboard.
Room for 2x 2.5" HDD
3x120mm (maybe 3x 140mm) bays for radiators along the top. 92mm input fans would be at the back, front, and the other side from the GPU.

Basically, you'd have something like a Corsair H80 and a H100 along the top: one for the CPU and one for the GPU; someone adept in fluid cooling could make an all-in-one loop.

The front panel should actually be along the front of the top, underneath a pop-up lid, and have 2x USB 3, 2x USB 2, speaker, & mic sockets.
 
With higher end ATX PSUs coming out that operate in a fanless mode (with proper convection), I'd like to see more cases that take advantage of this. Issue is that most of these psus are longer than the width of the itx board, so this leads to nasty overhang (or completely blocks any decent/tall cooler for the CPU.

In the current case design that I'm playing with (waiting on parts from taiwan / refining my acrylic bending skills on scrap bits), I'm trying out the Psu at the front of the case. One benefit is that this allows for significantly longer GPUs (~14") and non-stock heatsinks for quiet gpus for future proofing, but the cases do tend to be a bit larger (current swag is 361mm long by 211mm wide by 124mm tall - gives 9.4L)
 
My ideal would be:

ITX
Fits 2x 2.5drives
PicoPSU
No 3.5
No DVD/Slim
1 or 2 80mm fan @ front or top
2slots low profile PCI-E
The chassi should be standing too
 
My ideal would be similar to kaiba's:

ITX only, fits 2x 2.5" drives very compactly, PicoPSU, no 3.5" and no DVD drives and 2 slot low profile PCI-E. It should only have 2 USB front ports and the power button with the case made fully from two aluminium pieces. The drives should be underneath the motherboard.

The dimensions should be doable with 22cm x 20cm x 8cm. (WxDxH)

That means it should support a cooler with a height of about 6cm and should be just tall enough for a low profile card to be mounted and there should be space for 1x 60mm fan to bring air for the CPU cooler.

Alternatively I would also like one that is exactly the same except it won't have a PCI-E slot and it would have dimensions of 20cm x 19cm x 6cm. Which means max cooler height of about 4cm and fan support of 5cm.
 
I'd like a biggy SG08, wider for modular psu and 120mm side fan. taller for cooler and 2 3.5"hdd, no odd, aluminum chassis,
 
Ulti said:
My ideal would be similar to kaiba's:

ITX only, fits 2x 2.5" drives very compactly, PicoPSU, no 3.5" and no DVD drives and 2 slot low profile PCI-E. It should only have 2 USB front ports and the power button with the case made fully from two aluminium pieces. The drives should be underneath the motherboard.

The dimensions should be doable with 22cm x 20cm x 8cm. (WxDxH)

That means it should support a cooler with a height of about 6cm and should be just tall enough for a low profile card to be mounted and there should be space for 1x 60mm fan to bring air for the CPU cooler.

Alternatively I would also like one that is exactly the same except it won't have a PCI-E slot and it would have dimensions of 20cm x 19cm x 6cm. Which means max cooler height of about 4cm and fan support of 5cm.
Click to expand...

I found this but no idea of the specs.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Inwin-Devel...636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3371afb114
 
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Imagine a case with a Micro-ATX board with a TFX power supply on the side, parallel to the PCI Express slots but on the other side. The PSU is 63.5 wide, so this means a 307.5 mm * 244 mm inside space so far, with just 80mm in height. You can easily lay a full length, two slot card across the PCI slots. 9"5 cards should fit. Make sure the card faces upwards (this needs a PCIe riser laid across all slots, oh well). It's more than likely you actually have three slots worth of vertical space which means you can accomodate 51mm high VGA coolers. If not, make the case just high enough so you can :)

Now, we have a lot of stuff in there, how we will cool this? Easy! The top should be a mesh to allow for easier air pass through. It should have mounting holes for two 120x25mm fans above the VGA card and make that side the air intake so make that all mesh with a filter. Throw in a third 120mm port above the CPU.

The CPU cooler should have about 60mm height or so which would make something like even a Big Shuriken fit. You can use a passive 2U cooler and use the case-provided fan port to add a fan. Lots of possibilities. Also the space above the ports should be such that air easily moves. And, the front of the case as well :) you need a lot of airspace, here. You might want a divider in the middle of the case to direct the airflow.

This is why I am using a uATX board instead of ITX: a laying full height card + CPU socket is already above 200mm and the length of the VGA card also dictates quite some length. We win more RAM sockets and lower costs (which you likely want to spend on the VGA cooler) from going with uATX.

As for disks, you can slot two 2.5" on their side between the PSU and a motherboard, adding about 10mm to the 307.5mm. A 2.5" disk is <70mm width, the PSU was 80mm, so no problem there, the length is 100mm but we have 244mm so that leaves a little space even for cabling although I suspect L cables are in order.

So the case ends up 317.5 * 244 * 80mm on the inside, add about 10mm height around the case itself, so we end up 330*254*90mm or so -- just a little bit above 7.5L! Can't possibly make it smaller and yet accomodate such a powerful rig.
 
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Funny that this thread pops up now, I've been designing and building my own case over the weekend.

My wish list:
* mATX - love the mITX concept, don't think its quite there yet for gaming/high performance (I'm aware the Z77's are coming soon)
* full size optical drive - I think my next build can probably forfeit this, but for right now I still need optical media and slot loaders have terrible reliability
* Regular size PSU with functional exhaust - see my thoughts below on the TJ08e for what I mean by functional
* A sane # of hard drive bays - I don't get case mfgs ethos of "we need to cram 10+ hard drives into every case". If I need a little more storage, I'll replace my existing hard drive with a newer bigger one. If I need a lot of storage now (10TB) , I'll build a separate NAS. Lian Li, why do you insist on dedicating ~40% of your case volume to hard drive bays?
* Support for huge heatsinks - granted I've given up on this and am going with a H60, but it's odd/disheartening that only like 2 mATX cases out there support heatsinks like the 212+.


Cases I considered:
*V354 - I love the looks of it (minus the blue fans). Horrible airflow IMO, lots of wasted space, heatsink options are limited, psu oriented in a strange fashion.
*TJ08e - Front looks great, but the rest of the case seems to be rather cheap. Efficient use of space but the PSU is either sucking in air from the outside and letting it build up in the top or its facing the gpu and fighting for air.

My solution:
I'm working on my own case. Outer dimensions are roughly 12.5" h x 13.5" d x 7.5" w not including the feet. It's 3/4" panels so inner volume is just under 20L. Built out of wood just because its easier than working with metal. I'll be staining it dark cherry when I'm done. Side panels will be flat black 4mm steel that I cut off an old 90's era computer case.

case1.jpg


case2.jpg


Specs are:
955BE
Gigabyte 880GM-D2H
8GB ram
Powercolor 6780
1TB seagate drive
160GB x25-M
DVD-RW

I'm about 60% done, I still need to cut holes for power and USB directly below the front 120mm fan cutout. Plus lots of sanding. Cooling comes from a H60 mounted in the front, 120mm on the top rear, PSU with 120mm directly over the cpu. Air will get sucked in through the front and exhausted through the top and rear. Video card has a 92mm fan in the center with ducted air from the outside. It will pull cool air in through the bottom then force it to both the front and rear of the case.

Tell me if I'm the only person in the world who wants a case like this (not made out of wood necessarily, just the layout)?
 
Nice photos jwhazel, I'm impressed. Even if you need a optical drive I think you should just buy an external drive. You risk ruining your great design with an optical drive if you ask me. A solution could be to hide the optical drive somehow. But that's your call

I also have the V354 and the TJ08-E on my shopping list. The last few days I''m leaning more towards the TJ08-E. But I share your thoughts on that it's rather cheap made. For me the design is very important. Lian Li seems better. So I need the technical specs of the TJ08-E and the design and craftsmanship of Lian Li :)

I'm not sure how feasible it is but how about having the air intake at the bottom. Then a few hidden outlets at the top of the case plus the usual outlets at the back. Perhaps I should create my own case like you, but I think that would take me a few years to get a reasonable result ;-)
 
Jacob666 said:
Nice photos jwhazel, I'm impressed. Even if you need a optical drive I think you should just buy an external drive. You risk ruining your great design with an optical drive if you ask me. A solution could be to hide the optical drive somehow. But that's your call
Click to expand...
Thanks. I wrestled with the optical drive issue for awhile. I really wanted to shave ~3" off the height and make the front way more cleaner without the drive. The problem is I currently have to use an optical drive on a regular basis. So if I went with external it would still occupy space somewhere and I figure that space might as well be in the case. Next computer I build in a few years will likely not have a drive.

I also have the V354 and the TJ08-E on my shopping list. The last few days I''m leaning more towards the TJ08-E. But I share your thoughts on that it's rather cheap made. For me the design is very important. Lian Li seems better. So I need the technical specs of the TJ08-E and the design and craftsmanship of Lian Li :)
Click to expand...
I was in the exact same dilemma. I actually ordered both of these cases at two different times and ended up canceling them before they shipped. If the TJ08 was around 50, I would pull the trigger in a heartbeat. I spent 100 on a nmediapc 2000b a few years ago which was very similar: awesome thick brushed front panel worthy of sitting next to the highest end audio components, cheap piece of s*** every where else. The silverstone may be of slightly better quality, but I don't think by much. I just can't bring myself to pull the trigger at current price, especially not with the funky power supply position.

I'm not sure how feasible it is but how about having the air intake at the bottom. Then a few hidden outlets at the top of the case plus the usual outlets at the back.
Click to expand...
Certainly not unfeasible, but the depth of this case is almost the length of my GPU + power connectors. So if you look at it from the side, the GPU sort of segregates the case into 2 areas. Top area the H60 will be an intake and the psu + top 120 fan will be exhaust. The bottom portion of the case, at the moment, will rely on the fan + shroud of the GPU to intake air then spit it out the front and back. I may modify this once I start getting it put together. The way it stands now, there is practically very little room left in this case. It may not look like it, but there isn't any room to even cut a 30mm fan anywhere. I'm not trying to set any OC records, so as long as case temps are reasonable, I'll be okay. I'm only using the H60 because in my mind thats the only reasonable solution when mounting the PSU directly over the cpu. I'll find out in about a week whether or not my airflow design works :)

Edit: here is a terrible drawing to try and convey how the air will flow once the side panels are bolted on.
case3.jpg


Perhaps I should create my own case like you, but I think that would take me a few years to get a reasonable result ;-)
Click to expand...
I love homemade cases. I think the time spent to have something unique far out ways the fact every single time you look at your computer you think "I spent $100+ on this name brand case and its nice but not completely what I wanted".

When you think about it, its not that hard. Assuming you're not trying to do something crazy, you really only have to "design" 4 panels and only 1 of them (the rear) require the most care/precise measurements for the board and pci slots. I went with wood just because it's ultra cheap, I have tools and experience, and once finished it will fit in well with my desk setup which I also built :D It would take a little bit more cash, but you could build a case to your spec out of thick anodized aluminum that would put Lian Li to shame using this company: http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ The free software they provide you to draw your panel is ridiculously easy to use. I haven't used them yet, but will for some future non-pc projects.
 
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Machupo said:
In the current case design that I'm playing with (waiting on parts from taiwan / refining my acrylic bending skills on scrap bits), I'm trying out the Psu at the front of the case. One benefit is that this allows for significantly longer GPUs (~14") and non-stock heatsinks for quiet gpus for future proofing, but the cases do tend to be a bit larger (current swag is 361mm long by 211mm wide by 124mm tall - gives 9.4L)
Click to expand...

124mm tall leaves no space for PCIe power connectors at the side of the video card, no?


chx said:
Imagine a case with a Micro-ATX board with a TFX power supply on the side, parallel to the PCI Express slots but on the other side. The PSU is 63.5 wide, so this means a 307.5 mm * 244 mm inside space so far, with just 80mm in height. You can easily lay a full length, two slot card across the PCI slots. 9"5 cards should fit. Make sure the card faces upwards (this needs a PCIe riser laid across all slots, oh well). It's more than likely you actually have three slots worth of vertical space which means you can accomodate 51mm high VGA coolers. If not, make the case just high enough so you can :)

Now, we have a lot of stuff in there, how we will cool this? Easy! The top should be a mesh to allow for easier air pass through. It should have mounting holes for two 120x25mm fans above the VGA card and make that side the air intake so make that all mesh with a filter. Throw in a third 120mm port above the CPU.

The CPU cooler should have about 60mm height or so which would make something like even a Big Shuriken fit. You can use a passive 2U cooler and use the case-provided fan port to add a fan. Lots of possibilities. Also the space above the ports should be such that air easily moves. And, the front of the case as well :) you need a lot of airspace, here. You might want a divider in the middle of the case to direct the airflow.

This is why I am using a uATX board instead of ITX: a laying full height card + CPU socket is already above 200mm and the length of the VGA card also dictates quite some length. We win more RAM sockets and lower costs (which you likely want to spend on the VGA cooler) from going with uATX.

As for disks, you can slot two 2.5" on their side between the PSU and a motherboard, adding about 10mm to the 307.5mm. A 2.5" disk is <70mm width, the PSU was 80mm, so no problem there, the length is 100mm but we have 244mm so that leaves a little space even for cabling although I suspect L cables are in order.

So the case ends up 317.5 * 244 * 80mm on the inside, add about 10mm height around the case itself, so we end up 330*254*90mm or so -- just a little bit above 7.5L! Can't possibly make it smaller and yet accomodate such a powerful rig.
Click to expand...

I think you need to work this out in Sketchup or with real parts. I don't think it works with those dimensions.

- Video card on its side is ~120mm, but from the motherboard IO shield to the edge of a MATX board (across the PCI slots) is only 80mm or so. You're probably also going to have issues with the PCIe power connectors on the card interfering with the RAM slots. Really, you could fit a standard ATX board if you were going the card-over-the-slots route.

- Most triple slot GPU coolers are longer than 9.5". The Arctic Accelero Xtremes, for example, push the total length past 300mm.

- 2U passive cooler: 64mm + 25mm thick fan = 89mm + motherboard thickness, CPU socket, standoffs = 95mm+... how's it supposed to be 80mm on the inside?
 
Necere said:
124mm tall leaves no space for PCIe power connectors at the side of the video card, no?
Click to expand...

You can route the PCIe power cables through the side of the power plug/connector. 124mm might be a bit adventurous, but 130mm is probably doable, once I get some of the parts i'll get a mock-up built. As an alternative, I could raise the motherboard on ~30mm standoffs and then turn the PSU sideways and route the cables under the void where the pcie card would have gone (shortens the case to about 325mm). Benefit of this is space for a 3.5" drive under the motherboard, but it bumps the volume up to about 11L unless you do some weird artistic case shape.
 
NSK3480, painted black inside and out, with the external 3.5" bay being replaced by an internal 3.5"/2x2.5" bay and a front bezel mesh grill over the front 92mm fans.

Sell four versions: with/wihout a window and/or PSU (preferably the Earthwatts Platinum 650w).
 
~SG05 volume
No OOD
Full ATX PSU
let taller HSF
1x2.5 and 1x3.5 drives
Would like to see slightly longer video cards be able to fit but since the GTX680 fits, there isn't much need.
 
Jacob666 said:
I like most of the ideas... The only problem with <orangensaft's wishlist is that I still would like the option to have a 3,5" hard disk installed.
Click to expand...

And therein lies the problem. Everyone wants a case just so. Your "perfect" case? I wouldn't buy it. My "perfect" case? You wouldn't buy it. Hence, we have designs on the market which are not "perfect" for me or you, but might be close enough.

Actually, I don't have one "perfect case." That's because I have multiple roles I currently need to fill with computers.

MAIN RIG
ATX or mATX is fine.
I'm okay with most current cases, except I would want fewer drive bays.

HTPC
Needs to look like other gear such as my receiver.
mATX is fine.
Need capability for mid-range graphics card for light gaming.
Needs optical drive.

MEDIA PLAYER (secondary HTPC for another room)
SFF for sure, only needs one 2.5" drive bay. Something like Mini-Box M350 would work if it looked a bit nicer.

LAN BOX
Needs to be small yet hold a graphics card. Current Silverstone ITX cases are pretty close.

NAS
ITX, compact, quiet, 4x or so 3.5" HDD bays and one 2.5" bay. No need for hot swap (yes I have the Chenbro).

GARAGE RIG
Just needs to be small/ITX, I guess. No particular requirements.
 
Necere said:
124mm tall leaves no space for PCIe power connectors at the side of the video card, no?

I think you need to work this out in Sketchup or with real parts. I don't think it works with those dimensions.

- Video card on its side is ~120mm, but from the motherboard IO shield to the edge of a MATX board (across the PCI slots) is only 80mm or so. You're probably also going to have issues with the PCIe power connectors on the card interfering with the RAM slots. Really, you could fit a standard ATX board if you were going the card-over-the-slots route.

- Most triple slot GPU coolers are longer than 9.5". The Arctic Accelero Xtremes, for example, push the total length past 300mm.

- 2U passive cooler: 64mm + 25mm thick fan = 89mm + motherboard thickness, CPU socket, standoffs = 95mm+... how's it supposed to be 80mm on the inside?
Click to expand...

Hrm, not sure about that 120mm.
The original "full-size" PCI card is specified as a height of 107 mm (4.2 inches) and a depth of 312 mm (12.283 inches). The height includes the edge card connector.
Click to expand...
107mm. Now, an ITX board is 170mm, a micro ATX is 244 and the only difference is three additional slots, so three slots take 74mm. OTOH an ATX board is only 305mm and so that would yield three slots taking indeed 61mm so then I only have 80mm from the four slots, unfortunate, isn't it. But I will allow for 120mm, sure.

Still the small size is salvageable IMO if you move the PSU in front of the RAM instead of being perpendicular to them. If you widen the case for the video card then perhaps you could widen it enough (the TFX PSU is only 178mm long) to allow the video card to invade the space besides the PSU. So we are looking at (178+120 = ~300mm) x( 244 + 244+63.50 = ~310mm) x 80mm. That's still only 7.5L or so on the inside.

OK, so 2U is too much, then 1U perhaps :) ? Yes I need to play with this more, but there are so many thin coolers, the Thermaltake Slim X3, the Silverstone NT07-1156, the Prolimatech Samuel... I am sure it can be made to work :)
 
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chx said:
Hrm, not sure about that 120mm.
Click to expand...

It's actually more than 120mm if you include the bracket. Here it is straight from the "PCI Express Card Physical Specification:"







(click for bigger)

I'll save you the trouble of figuring it out: max height, including the bracket, is 126.31mm. That doesn't include any edge-mounted PCIe power connectors, of course.



chx said:
Still the small size is salvageable IMO if you move the PSU in front of the RAM instead of being perpendicular to them. If you widen the case for the video card then perhaps you could widen it enough (the TFX PSU is only 178mm long) to allow the video card to invade the space besides the PSU. So we are looking at (178+120 = ~300mm) x( 244 + 244+63.50 = ~310mm) x 80mm. That's still only 7.5L or so on the inside.
Click to expand...

This will work but bear in mind that you'll need a right-angle AC power cable, which adds another 20mm or so to the length (unless you can source a lower-profile angle plug like Silverstone uses, which will save you a few mm). Plus you'll need to allow some space at the other end for internal power cables.

chx said:
OK, so 2U is too much, then 1U perhaps :) ? Yes I need to play with this more, but there are so many thin coolers, the Thermaltake Slim X3, the Silverstone NT07-1156, the Prolimatech Samuel... I am sure it can be made to work :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, either the Samuel17 or Big Shuriken (both are the same height) with a 120x12mm fan should fit and offer the best performance in the available space.


I didn't chime in on the OP's question, so I'll do that: I'd like to see a couple of different SFF cases - one being a slightly taller (to allow for PCIe power connectors), dual-slot version of the Apex MI-008 (and its clones). I'd also like to see a dual-slot (but still low-profile) Antec ISK 300 with a higher rated PSU. Should be aesthetically appealing. Like this (photoshop mockup based on Fractal Design).
 
Jacob666 said:
I've read a thread about the Silverstone SGO8 and there is a user "<orangensaft" that has some wishes for a SG09...
Click to expand...

Someone actually read that post... :)
And you seem to wish for the same as me. Have you seen the picture that put me into that direction?
h774-8-c9f0.jpg


Just amazing and only 10,8L! Imagine that with clean brushed aluminium... standing an the side with the PSU.
The Z77 ITX Boards are out and there is even one that has an mSATA-Slot on the back... ideal for a 128GB M4!
Ahh: OCed i5-3570K @ Thermalright HR-02, ASRock Z77E-ITX with 128GB M4 on the back and a GTX 680 :eek: ...its all there what is Silverstone doing?!
114080-silverstone-ft03-mini.png


WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST PLACED THE PSU AT THE BOTTOM!!!? :mad:
 
<orangensaft said:
WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST PLACED THE PSU AT THE BOTTOM!!!? :mad:
Click to expand...

Because that would block the bottom fan intake and destroy the whole bottom-to-top airflow concept of the case. It would also necessitate additional ventilation openings on the side(s) of the case which would mess up the clean looks.
 
<orangensaft said:
Someone actually read that post... :)
And you seem to wish for the same as me. Have you seen the picture that put me into that direction?
h774-8-c9f0.jpg


Just amazing and only 10,8L! Imagine that with clean brushed aluminium... standing an the side with the PSU.
The Z77 ITX Boards are out and there is even one that has an mSATA-Slot on the back... ideal for a 128GB M4!
Ahh: OCed i5-3570K @ Thermalright HR-02, ASRock Z77E-ITX with 128GB M4 on the back and a GTX 680 :eek: ...its all there what is Silverstone doing?!
114080-silverstone-ft03-mini.png


WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST PLACED THE PSU AT THE BOTTOM!!!? :mad:
Click to expand...

Which case is that on the bottom again?
 
The FT03 mini from Silverstone.

Necere said:
...it would also necessitate additional ventilation openings on the side(s) of the case which would mess up the clean looks.
Click to expand...

Your right there I guess. Than how about a version without the clean looks... 100% functional and as small as posible.
 
Hi <orangensaft

Funny that you found my old thread. We almost share the same opinions on how the optimal case should be built.

I have now two more cases on my shopping list

Lian Li PC-V355
Fractal Design Node 304

The problem is that i have very high expectations for the case. So it it very difficult to actually go out and actually buy something. :)
 
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