For Some, "Gamer" Still Means "Social Outcast"

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Kotaku has an interesting editorial posted today on the subject of video games being used as a scapegoat by that Norwegian mass murderer.

Gaming didn't make Breivik a killer—or even a more efficient killer, despite his claims. (It would be disingenuous to presume that Breivik didn't learn something of, say, military tactics by playing games—that verisimilitude to real world warfare is part of the reason we respond so strongly to games like Modern Warfare 2—but any real knowledge he gained is a rounding error compared to what he learned by actually shooting weapons in real life.)
Click to expand...
 
Steve said:
Kotaku has an interesting editorial posted today on the subject of video games being used as a scapegoat by that Norwegian mass murderer.
Click to expand...

The guy you quoted is a friggin' idiot.

Article said:
Breivik, 32, the confessed terrorist behind a bombing and shooting spree that left nearly 90 dead, many children, said he used a claimed World of Warcraft gaming addiction to prevent those close to him from prying into his personal life in the days, the weeks leading up to his twin attacks in Oslo.
Click to expand...

He said to use "gaming addiction" excuse to distract and excuse behavior when planning something that would alter behavior patterns.
 
I wasn't a social outcast because I was a gamer.

I was a gamer because I was a social outcast.
 
Let them say there crap.
We know the fun we've had, they will never experience it.
 
"HOW DARE THEY CALL US SOCIAL OUTCASTS!?! THEY WILL NEVER KNOW THE GLORY OF THE GAMER LIFESTYLE!"

*posted from the cat-piss-soaked 1 bedroom apartment of a fat, 32 year old man-child.*
 
The belief that gaming makes people more violent/killers is incorrect. Furthermore we should be grateful of the fact, because if gaming did have a violent affect on us, the world would seriously not know what hit it. It wouldn't be the occasional massacres that have been more or less consistent with history, we'd have seen a significant rise in these violent instances the world over. So much so that studies would not be required in the face of such overwhelming evidence.

It all seems so foolish sometimes, the conclusions people draw when they want something to be a certain way.
 
Killing a random person in a video game is so many leagues different than slaughtering an actual person than any rational individual that attempts to make the argument that its similar in any fashion has absolutely no idea what so ever oh what it requires.

This highly diluted psycho claims that what he did was "just awful' but that it "had to be done". That is the definition of a sociopath , not a video gamer. There are soldiers that have been forced to kill to defend there life and they have a huge problem coping with it after they do so. A normal rational person struggles with the very concept.
 
Jamie Oliver would have never done this if the schools had made more healthy menu changes.
 
Kalabalana said:
The belief that gaming makes people more violent/killers is incorrect. Furthermore we should be grateful of the fact, because if gaming did have a violent affect on us, the world would seriously not know what hit it. It wouldn't be the occasional massacres that have been more or less consistent with history, we'd have seen a significant rise in these violent instances the world over. So much so that studies would not be required in the face of such overwhelming evidence.

It all seems so foolish sometimes, the conclusions people draw when they want something to be a certain way.
Click to expand...
There was the wild west long before video games. There were wars long before video games. Mass murders, psychopaths, and rapists all existed long before video games. This comes down to the nature vs nurture argument. A lot of people think we're brought into this world with a clean slate. Only how we're raised will effect our outcome. That is wishful thinking.

Our genes are the foundation, and society is everything on top. No matter how much you change on top, that foundation will always be there. Like it or not, if someone is going to be violent their entire life, nothing will change them. No matter how much politically correct, socially correct, ethnically correct content you show them, the outcome won't change.

As far as gamers being Social outcast, I have to deal with that all the time. Not because I maybe violent, but a lot of people will think of me as a loser. It's hard to find someone who appreciates gaming as a hobby. A lot of people would think that your time is better spent in bars getting drunk.
 
Ashbringer said:
Only how we're raised will effect our outcome. That is wishful thinking.

Our genes are the foundation, and society is everything on top. No matter how much you change on top, that foundation will always be there. Like it or not, if someone is going to be violent their entire life, nothing will change them. No matter how much politically correct, socially correct, ethnically correct content you show them, the outcome won't change
Click to expand...

Disagree with most of what you've said. You are not born violent, as you don't have the capacity or capable thinking.

What makes people a certain way is how they were brought up and the experiences. Neglectful/abusive parents who don't give a good example or care about their children develop into those kinds of people. Other people influence how a child develops. Religion and norms.
 
Games are a quick and easy scapegoat that allows people to put a close on these things without having to think very hard about the real cause. No one wants to accept that some people have these inclinations naturally, so they will find something that 'caused' it. I don't know if murdering tendencies are something genetic or in the environment, but games alone are not the cause. It could have been how his parents treated him or someone else while he was around and got the idea that such behavior was correct. It could be that he had neglectful parents that tossed a game system at him while he was really young and violent video games and never bothered to talk to him about the differences between reality and fantasy. It could be a million little things that did it, but let's blame video games. Forget the millions of people playing video games that never hurt anyone. They don't count, or just haven't yet reached the point they are ready to kill.

Honestly, I have fired shotguns and rifles, and if you try to imitate some video game characters doing it, you'd probably break some bones or go deaf. It's really not the same thing at all.
 
The gaming industry makes more money than Hollywood. There are hundred of millions of gamers out there and this is the first lone nut job since Tim McVeigh. I say the odds are pretty good that gamers are fairly law abiding.
 
IRSmurf said:
I wasn't a social outcast because I was a gamer.

I was a gamer because I was a social outcast.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much true for me too, and the more likely reason a majority of gamers, are gamers.

Penn & Teller, and their Bullshit series, already proved that video games are nothing like firing a real gun, or anything else related to injuring/killing people, and the people against violent video games, are pretty disturbing on their own, or in Jack Thompson's case (yeah he was interviewed on that show too, shortly before being disbarred) full of shit.
 
wiseoracle said:
Disagree with most of what you've said. You are not born violent, as you don't have the capacity or capable thinking.

What makes people a certain way is how they were brought up and the experiences. Neglectful/abusive parents who don't give a good example or care about their children develop into those kinds of people. Other people influence how a child develops. Religion and norms.
Click to expand...

A crappy upbringing doesn't help, but it's hard to argue that a large part of who we are isn't decided before we ever exit the womb. It's like the arguing only thing that makes a woman different from a man is the gentiles and how they're treated because of it; when in actual fact much of it is dictated by complex chemical reactions in the body/brain.
 
wtiger said:
It's like the arguing only thing that makes a woman different from a man is the gentiles and how they're treated because of it
Click to expand...

There is an awesome circumcision joke here, it's just too early on a Monday morning to think of it.
 
So for all intent and purposes I guess the Army lied when they created American Army "The game was developed by Col. Wardynski who recognized that a video game might be helpful to the U.S. Army in the strategic communication efforts by providing more information to prospective Soldiers and to help reduce the number of recruits who wash out during the nine weeks of basic training""The Boston Globe columnist said "... America's Army isn't just a time-wasting shoot-'em-up. It's full of accurate information about military training and tactics, intended to prepare a new generation of potential recruits. Amidst all the shouting drill sergeants and whistling bullets, some real education is going on. America's Army is a 'serious game,' part of a new wave of computer simulations that provide entertaining lessons about real world activities."
 
I suppose everyone around me should live in fear. After all, I've killed hundreds of people just this weekend. :rolleyes:
 
Godmachine said:
Killing a random person in a video game is so many leagues different than slaughtering an actual person than any rational individual that attempts to make the argument that its similar in any fashion has absolutely no idea what so ever oh what it requires.

This highly diluted psycho claims that what he did was "just awful' but that it "had to be done". That is the definition of a sociopath , not a video gamer. There are soldiers that have been forced to kill to defend there life and they have a huge problem coping with it after they do so. A normal rational person struggles with the very concept.
Click to expand...

Its people in the real world who dont know the difference, games do.
 
IRSmurf said:
I wasn't a social outcast because I was a gamer.

I was a gamer because I was a social outcast.
Click to expand...

Same here... though I don't know if I was considered a social outcast, but definitely not the "omg I'm so popular" crowd.
 
Ashbringer said:
There was the wild west long before video games. There were wars long before video games. Mass murders, psychopaths, and rapists all existed long before video games. This comes down to the nature vs nurture argument. A lot of people think we're brought into this world with a clean slate. Only how we're raised will effect our outcome. That is wishful thinking.

Our genes are the foundation, and society is everything on top. No matter how much you change on top, that foundation will always be there. Like it or not, if someone is going to be violent their entire life, nothing will change them. No matter how much politically correct, socially correct, ethnically correct content you show them, the outcome won't change.
Click to expand...

You're speaking from a hard determinist point of view. Fortunately the American Society is based on soft determinism and people are given a chance to change.
If a person think they can't change or control their behavior, they are mentally unstable.

Everybody has a "choice" to "change", and do the right thing. If that wasn't true, many of us would have never got a second chance in life and who knows where we will be now.
If people were born "themselves", the Salem Witch trails or Minority Report would be an ideal judicial system, were people can just classify a person as bad and they are found guilty, without actually committing a crime.
 
Guys he doesn't say it meaning you learn how to kill living beings in games - what he is implying is learning weapons behaviour probably and he could be partially right.

First time i took wind rifle in the hand i scored all 3 shots into 4 cm circle just by following counter strike awp aiming routine ;)
 
Genes do not work how this thread would have you believe. They may overlap one another, and may or may not be activated. Whether they are activated is almost always based upon experiences.

Experience does not begin after birth. Experience begins prenatal.

People are not born with a "clean slate", as experiences have already been processed by the brain for one of the most deterministic periods of time. It is not because they were predetermined to be violent however. Genes that are involved with violence must be activated, most often by early childhood abuse or problems. It is found, that without these early childhood experiences that children with "violent genes" are actually less violent on average.

Violence in video games effects people in the same way that any light experience would. Yes, our movies, games, media, and music all shape us. However, a light experience like those that are experienced while gaming are not nearly enough to have the impact to perform vicious acts of violence (alone at least..). As said, it may or may not be the straw on the camels back... but that hardly matters. Everything in life is an experience, and the only reason that people can throw blame on video games is because the generation running the media is still not completely familiar with video games. They may see some footage or get some indirect examples of games in their heads, and from their viewpoint it looks pretty extreme.

If you wanted to ban games on the notion that their lasting impressions were too strong, then you'd have to ban the rest of life with them.
 
So, here we start another round of "videogames make people violent" discussions.

I was in the US army and by the time I was 20 I had been through a wide range of military training, with an emphasis on small unit tactics and as a scout/sniper. I also go to see the lovely island of Grenada, although the "tourist board" wasn't very happy to see us. :D

On top of this I've been into computer games since I started messing around on a Commadore PET computer then after getting away from computers I got hooked on Harpoon and then Wolfenstein 3D and have stayed an active gamer since then.

Yet somehow despite all of this I've never gone on a rampage even though things haven't always gone my way.

I think those trying to link violent games with violent people are looking at it backwards, violent games don't cause psychos to try and kill people, but yes psychos who want to kill people will be attracted to violent games.
 
Michaelius said:
Guys he doesn't say it meaning you learn how to kill living beings in games - what he is implying is learning weapons behaviour probably and he could be partially right.

First time i took wind rifle in the hand i scored all 3 shots into 4 cm circle just by following counter strike awp aiming routine ;)
Click to expand...

I would have to agree that you can learn some basic techniques for firearm use and tactics from videogames. They wont make a person into a killer, or make a killer into an unstoppable killing machine but they can help them become more effective.

As can books, movies, magazines and newspapers. Consider that after every mass shooting the media will go out of it's way to detail every second the nutcase spent planning and executing his plan, which shows future nutbars what worked and what didn't.

Remember that just because someone is psychotic doesn't mean they are stupid and if they are determined to carry out something like this they can, and have put forth an incredible amount of time and energy planning it out.
 
claiming "violent video games make you a better killer" is stupid.
soo does playing UFC undisputed qualify you to compete in the real UFC?
If you pwn at COD4, does that mean you can hold your own against a navy seal in real life?
NOPE!

this is dumb
 
ssh no Bokmål.

I think gaming made him a better killer indirectly through faster reaction in pew pew.
 
Michaelius said:
Guys he doesn't say it meaning you learn how to kill living beings in games - what he is implying is learning weapons behaviour probably and he could be partially right.

First time i took wind rifle in the hand i scored all 3 shots into 4 cm circle just by following counter strike awp aiming routine ;)
Click to expand...

Impressive shooting for running with the gun at your hip, jumping in the air and turning 180 degrees, shouldering the gun and looking down its sights, firing and then whipping out your Desert Eagle! :D
 
cptnjarhead said:
claiming "violent video games make you a better killer" is stupid.
soo does playing UFC undisputed qualify you to compete in the real UFC?
If you pwn at COD4, does that mean you can hold your own against a navy seal in real life?
NOPE!

this is dumb
Click to expand...

So is taking this as an all or nothing example.

It's not a question of if it would make you a navy Seal, the question is can you learn techniques in a game that could make you more "effective" if you went on a shooting spree and to that I think the answer is definately yes.

It's not a case of you now being an expert on firearems or be a perfect shot, but instead it's the simple fact that most decent shooters force you to think, plan and act strategically and in any "combat" situation that is the one thing that will get you further then any other single piece of knowledge.

Ironically police and military around the country use what amounts to giant hi tech videogames as a "low cost" alternative for training police officers, infantryman and even tank crews, fighter pilot and bomber crews and yet people will sit here and in defense of the games they play put on blinders and claim "videogames can't teach you anything!"
 
We all know that everyone posting in this thread is a fucked up individual as the result of spending countless hours of their lives playing those nefarious, evil, demented, and ultimately FUN video games!

The sheer horror, maybe they oughta lock us all up.
 
Then everyone is a social outcast. Even 40 year old females play games now... not graphic intensive games, but games nevertheless.

But... I suppose it's cool now days to be an outcast. It's like all the emo kids... they want to be 'different' ... like everyone else. You got nothing if you're normal. The oddballs seem to make more friends now. Strange times.
 
There's a better article on this topic here.

I shake my head in disbelief everytime somebody tries to blame videogames for every bit of violence that happens in the world.
 
IRSmurf said:
I wasn't a social outcast because I was a gamer.

I was a gamer because I was a social outcast.
Click to expand...

Same here. Gaming is not the reason why I was a social outcast since I was a kid. It just happens to be a hobby I enjoy very much and I could enjoy it without needing any company.
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
So is taking this as an all or nothing example.

It's not a question of if it would make you a navy Seal, the question is can you learn techniques in a game that could make you more "effective" if you went on a shooting spree and to that I think the answer is definately yes.

It's not a case of you now being an expert on firearems or be a perfect shot, but instead it's the simple fact that most decent shooters force you to think, plan and act strategically and in any "combat" situation that is the one thing that will get you further then any other single piece of knowledge.

Ironically police and military around the country use what amounts to giant hi tech videogames as a "low cost" alternative for training police officers, infantryman and even tank crews, fighter pilot and bomber crews and yet people will sit here and in defense of the games they play put on blinders and claim "videogames can't teach you anything!"
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, neither game or guns kill people. People kill people.
 
wiseoracle said:
Disagree with most of what you've said. You are not born violent, as you don't have the capacity or capable thinking.

What makes people a certain way is how they were brought up and the experiences. Neglectful/abusive parents who don't give a good example or care about their children develop into those kinds of people. Other people influence how a child develops. Religion and norms.
Click to expand...

not so sure I can agree with you either. why is it that both my brother and sister are on probation. brother going back to jail and can't hold a job to save his life.. sister lives in a beat single wide with two kids to a married man.... and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

all the while I was a straight a+ student all through high school. a college graduate and have a nice career in technology while never having a blemish on my criminal record.

we were all three brought up by the same two parents. we were all.given the same opportunities and choices. how did we turn out so different?
 
jadams said:
not so sure I can agree with you either. why is it that both my brother and sister are on probation. brother going back to jail and can't hold a job to save his life.. sister lives in a beat single wide with two kids to a married man.... and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

all the while I was a straight a+ student all through high school. a college graduate and have a nice career in technology while never having a blemish on my criminal record.

we were all three brought up by the same two parents. we were all.given the same opportunities and choices. how did we turn out so different?
Click to expand...

It's a combination of genes and experience. Experience can mean a ton of things. I believe the most important part of "experience" isn't that something was presented to you, but how you reacted to it. Part of it it choice, part of it is instinctive or emotional.

As for how you made it through, you can also think of it like weighted dice. They don't always land on the same number, unless severly weighted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top