Where's all the 1920x1200 monitors?

For those following this thread: Dell Financial Services has
the 2707WFP for sale. It's PVA. Only 84 DPI though...

http://www.dfsdirectsales.com/Store...vga__svideo__composite__co?offset=&isLaptop=N

I was about to buy the new Dell 27" with that 25% off coupon, but now I'm not sure. That monitor is WAAAAY cheaper and is 16:10, albeit a slightly lower resolution. Thoughts? I haven't read up on monitor tech in a few years.

Ninja edit: wait a second, is that thing refurb?
 
It looks like the ASUS VW266H has now been discontinued as well, since Newegg, Amazon and other stores are no longer carrying it. :/
 
An uncropped APS-C image from Canon or Nikon ranges somewhere between 15:10 and 16:10 aspect ratio.
Fair enough, but if you are sharing your media, your audience more and more is going to be using 16:9 as the current standard. Not 16:10 and not 4:3. Its not to say that 16:9 is inferior or superior to those, its merely different, but it is the trend of things. To purchase a 16:10 or 4:3 now, no matter your feelings about image ratios, is investing in technology that is on a standard that is going away.

Go to dpreview.com and look at the image ratio w:h and you'll see nearly all the new cameras are 16:9. Same on all the new cellphones and handheld video cameras.
The displays I own are mainly used for the Internet, photo editing, book layout, writing, and spreadsheets. That makes me part of a minority here, I suppose, but one who is nonetheless adamant that the 16:9 trend has been a huge disservice to users like me.

Only for Internet surfing do I see some possible advantage for 16:9 vs. 16:10, and even there it's kind of a wash.
If you are using a mainstream recent camera and photoediting, you're working with 16:9 footage. For book layout and writing, if you have a sufficient size 16:9 monitor and office 2010, you'd probably appreciate dual page layout which works well with wide resolutions. Excel scales fine as well.

Otherwise, by that logical 4:3 is superior to 16:10 as well... up to you, just know its going bye-bye.
 
The reason why some people dont wanna use 16:9 is because they are stubborn and stupid. 16:9 is the future.

1920*1200 will basically not exist for new monitors just 2-3 years from now. Maybe even earlier. It is just stupid to buy such hardware.
 
I don't know what your definition of mainstream camera is, but a Nikon D90 (and so far as I know every other Nikon DSLR) uses 1.52:1 aspect ratio and there is no indication that this is likely to change. I understand that Canon uses more like 1.6:1.

Those who are interested in viewing photography web sites may or may not be satisfied to do so on a 16:9 display. In the last couple of years, the companies that host such sites have started offering full-screen viewing. So I guess the 16:9 users will be stuck with black bars if they wish to participate. Either that, or the photographers will be forced to radically crop the images produced by their DSLRs.

As for "mainstream photoediting," there is nothing in Photoshop that compels me to use 16:9.

I'm quite familiar with dual page layout and use it all the time on my 16:10 24 inch display. II think I acknowledged that it is possible to simply buy a bigger display in order to retain adequate height in the 16:9 format. If you read my post closely, then you know I also said that in my case at least there are space limitations going beyond 24 inch displays.
 
Stubborn and stupid? Nothing like name-calling. Unless you work for a manufacturer and actually can get inside their decision process, you're a consumer, and your opinion is, well, your opinion.
 
Using 2 x Dell 2709 1920x1200
Geez - I don't feel stubborn and stupid.
I spend the vast majority of my time in front of a monitor doing things that, it seem to me, 16:10 does "better" than 16:9.
Documents - they are vertical
Web Reading - they are vertical
Excel - stretched across 2x1920, I can see more rows with 16:10.
None of these are going to magically change to 16:9 friendly.

I have never seen any sort of assertion that the majority of monitor users spend even a substantial % of their time viewing 16:9 images (still or video).

It seems disingenuous to suggest that 16:9 is somehow better for the consumer in computer monitors...except, perhaps, in cost.....but we can't even be sure of that, given the lack of choice.
My real argument is the near complete absence of 16:10 models at any price. Do I really have to buy a 30" monitor @ >$1000 to get 16:10?
 
I don't know what your definition of mainstream camera is, but a Nikon D90 (and so far as I know every other Nikon DSLR) uses 1.52:1 aspect ratio and there is no indication that this is likely to change. I understand that Canon uses more like 1.6:1.
Thousand dollar cameras are a bit of a niche market, and are usually such high resolution and quality that image editing and cropping is expected before sharing regardless, and it makes sense to crop the image for your average viewer which will be on a 16:9 already, and even more so in years to come.

The average consumer IMO btw is using and sharing 16:9 photos and videos with $100-500 relatively compact devices like your Canon Powershot, Panasonic Lumix, Nikon Coolpix, and Pentax Optio mainstream consumer lines and the like or Kodak Zi8, Creative Vado, FlipHD, or other handheld camcorder recording at 16:9 (720p or 1080p).
 
The reason why some people dont wanna use 16:9 is because they are stubborn and stupid. 16:9 is the future.

1920*1200 will basically not exist for new monitors just 2-3 years from now. Maybe even earlier. It is just stupid to buy such hardware.

All major mid-level and high-end monitor manufacturers launched their new 1920x1200 models last year (Dell, NEC, Eizo, HP, LG, etc.).

1920x1080 is low cost castrated 1920x1200 for housewives and their kids.
 
"Thousand dollar cameras are a bit of a niche market, and are usually such high resolution and quality that image editing and cropping is expected before sharing regardless"

This shows that you do not know what you're talking about. The extent to which the image is cropped is an artistic decision. Cropping is not "expected;" indeed many of the best photographers say that they attempt to frame the photo correctly before taking it, in which case the camera's native aspect ratio is artistically (more or less) the correct one.

And no, a $600-$1600 DSLR is a niche market only to someone who thinks that cell phones are cameras.

You suggested that I visit dpreview. I am there daily. Visit it yourself.
 
albovin wrote:

"1920x1080 is low cost castrated 1920x1200 for housewives and their kids."

Exactly.
 
"Thousand dollar cameras are a bit of a niche market, and are usually such high resolution and quality that image editing and cropping is expected before sharing regardless"

This shows that you do not know what you're talking about. The extent to which the image is cropped is an artistic decision. Cropping is not "expected;" indeed many of the best photographers say that they attempt to frame the photo correctly before taking it, in which case the camera's native aspect ratio is artistically (more or less) the correct one.

And no, a $600-$1600 DSLR is a niche market only to someone who thinks that cell phones are cameras.

You suggested that I visit dpreview. I am there daily. Visit it yourself.
Wow, defensive much? Of course the latter statement is subjective, but I haven't dealt with any photographers that publish raw unedited photos for their customers including the recent wedding images (all cropped to 16:9 amongst other things). I have an expensive DSLR as well, congradulate you on a very nice piece of pro-grade equipment, but just like the 460hp Corvette in my garage, I'm not going to kid myself and pretend those are average mainstream machines. You're grasping at straws here, even making claims about looking at birds out of windows or something as if thats relevant to the future of aspect ratios. :p

I'm trying to remember if the transition from 4:3 CRTs met as much resistance when going to 16:10 LCDs.

Some people sure are hard headed, but hey, as long as it makes you happy then I suppose thats all that really matters.
 
LOL, and not even saying its the end of the world. I just purchased a 16:10 display as well (U3011) and my 24" monitors are also all 16:10. I was simply providing an explanation of the benefits of having a single unified standard for multimedia and fact that going forward 1080p is clearly that standard, with numerous clear benefits to having a display of the same aspect ratio as that media for video games, pictures, TV, and movies.
 
I too will go back to what I was saying. I acknowledge that the majority may buy 16:9 because IMO that is what is put under their nose. I acknowledge the efficiencies of combining the manufacturers' response to TV demand with their response to desktop demand, although I have never seen a real explanation why 16:9 is better for the former much less the latter. I continue to maintain that the shift to 16:9 is a disservice to many desktop users and photo editing users. I am unimpressed by anyone who argues that I should accept it because it is just inevitable. For the most part their explanations for why it is supposedly inevitable strike me as mere fanboy rationalization by people who have no real knowledge of the reasons one way or the other. Their rationalizations can therefore legitimately be classified as the chatter of lemmings going over the cliff.
 
Please read again, those are two separate statements.
Perhaps you should read again. The first statement is still wrong. You will NOT have a wider FOV. You will just have a wider physical picture. If you want a larger picture, buy a television.

Although usually rounded up on actual viewing size, a 24" monitor is a 24" monitor regardless of 1080p or 1200p, measured diagonally across the screen. Comparing a 22" 1080p against a 24" 1200p makes no sense.
Sadly for you, it makes more sense than what you're saying. A majority of 1080 monitors are less than 24 inch. 1920 are however all 24 inch or more.

And separately, to reiterate, movies in 16:9 or wider aspect ratio will utilize more of any given screen size on a 16:9 than 16:10 display.
Yes, this is true. However, the screen size utlization increase is incredibly marginal at best. You buy a monitor because you intend to use it with a computer. If you just want physical space I say again, why are you bothering with a 24" monitor? Just buy a television.

If you are using a mainstream recent camera and photoediting, you're working with 16:9 footage.
A 16:10 display is superior when working with 16:9 footage, as those extra 120 pixel lines are where the tools go.
 
Perhaps you should read again. The first statement is still wrong. You will NOT have a wider FOV. You will just have a wider physical picture. If you want a larger picture, buy a television.
Can someone else please explain hor+ scaling in games to deadgye, I don't know how else to word it.
Sadly for you, it makes more sense than what you're saying. A majority of 1080 monitors are less than 24 inch. 1920 are however all 24 inch or more.
Uh, wot?
I am unimpressed by anyone who argues that I should accept it because it is just inevitable.
It is not inevitable, it has already happened.

We will add your technological distinctiveness to our own.

You will be assimilated.

Resistance is futile.
 
People doing important photo or coding work that requires accurate colors/high quality/large real-estate should know to stay away from the sub 800$ displays.

Even if the cheaper displays are are all 16:9, it shouldnt matter, those bitching about loosing the 120 pixels shouldn't even be looking at them. My 24" 16:10 TN was 450$ in 2008, it's successor is better in all areas of image quality and is 16:9, but only cost 250$ in 2010. A 16:10 24" TN like the Samsung 2443BW costs 350$, in 08 the Samsung T240 was 400$.

I see no problem with this.

A Dell 2408Wfp (16:10) would have cost me 800$ (CAN) in 2008. The inacurate color presets render it unsuitable for color work.

Now I can buy a 16:10. Eizo or NEC display for around 800-900$, but it can be used for color work.

You can get a 16:10 HP ZR24W for around 400$, a few years ago it would have cost a lot more.

The only market that is really being affected by this movement is the TN market. So I'll say it again, those needing a display for photo work/coding should still know to stay away from the cheaper displays. If they choose to only spend 300$- on a 16:9 TN, they are still getting a better quality display than any of the 16:10 TN's from before.
 
Can someone else please explain hor+ scaling in games ..., I don't know how else to word it.

It has been explained 100 times. How many times more?? You will NOT have a wider FOV on 1920x1080. FOV is the same on both monitors.

Hor+ game:

18975978.jpg



Older games:

75587384.jpg



Wide screen movies:

22357817.jpg



Classic movies:

67112851.jpg



Video editing:

35602187.jpg




Internet (more scrolling on x1080):

100cml.jpg



MS Word:

103qs.jpg



Photos:

101ry.jpg
 
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It has been explained 100 times. How many times more?? You will NOT have a wider FOV on 1920x1080. FOV is the same on both monitors.

Hor+ game:

18975978.jpg
*facepalm* Your choices are lose screen size or lose FOV. You will NOT NOT have a wider FOV on 1920x1080.

sc2_fov36k6.gif

(edited for color enhancement)
 
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This is irrelevant nonsense.

garbagec.jpg


You confuse the format of the GAME with the format of the MONITOR.

That's your mistake.

I have posted FOR YOU a photo of two REAL MONITORS.

Look carefully.

LOL
 
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I have read on reviews that my Acer H233H when connected via HDMI is at 1200. Ill try it and see soon.
 
People doing important photo or coding work that requires accurate colors/high quality/large real-estate should know to stay away from the sub 800$ displays.

Even if the cheaper displays are are all 16:9, it shouldnt matter, those bitching about loosing the 120 pixels shouldn't even be looking at them. My 24" 16:10 TN was 450$ in 2008, it's successor is better in all areas of image quality and is 16:9, but only cost 250$ in 2010. A 16:10 24" TN like the Samsung 2443BW costs 350$, in 08 the Samsung T240 was 400$.

I see no problem with this.

A Dell 2408Wfp (16:10) would have cost me 800$ (CAN) in 2008. The inacurate color presets render it unsuitable for color work.

Now I can buy a 16:10. Eizo or NEC display for around 800-900$, but it can be used for color work.

You can get a 16:10 HP ZR24W for around 400$, a few years ago it would have cost a lot more.

The only market that is really being affected by this movement is the TN market. So I'll say it again, those needing a display for photo work/coding should still know to stay away from the cheaper displays. If they choose to only spend 300$- on a 16:9 TN, they are still getting a better quality display than any of the 16:10 TN's from before.

This is exactly right and it is not new. Back in the days of CRTs a good display like the Sony GDM series cost over $1500 a pop and they were well worth it. Sure Dell sold cheap $300 jobs and they looked like hell in comparison.

Anyone that does coding, CAD, graphic design and so on knows the difference and spends the mony to get the right equipment.

This argument is a wast of time. Those of us that want a 16:10 screen have to pony up for higher priced displays. There is a lot of other reasons to do that anyway.

Dave
 
*facepalm* Your choices are lose screen size or lose FOV. You will NOT NOT have a wider FOV on 1920x1080.

sc2_fov36k6.gif

(edited for color enhancement)

This animation is a farce. 16:9 is shorter then 16:10 not wider. 16 = 16 = no change in width, 9 < 10 = reduction in height. It really is that simple. Now quit playing games and go back to school.
 
This is a very hard forum, guys.

ok...... what?

i just tried to connect mine using the HDMI port....not sure how to get it to work...mini HDMI to HDMI adapter and HDMI straight to monitor....nothing happens, only get display when using DVI cable, even if i switch to HDMI input on monitor, it switches itself back to DVI
 
Holy cow, can you monitor nerds shut up and just tell us normal people if that 27" Dell linked earlier is any good?
 
did i do something wrong by posting about the actual thread topic? as in i read the initial post and replied about monitors and 1200 horizontal line resolution capability?
 
This is irrelevant nonsense.

You confuse the format of the GAME with the format of the MONITOR.

That's your mistake.

I have posted FOR YOU a photo of two REAL MONITORS.

Look carefully.
This is not that complicated, you either lose screen size or you lose FOV, thats how vertical locked scaling works. *double-facepalm* :rolleyes:

You are comparing a 1920x1080 resolution with a 1920x1080 resolution, as you have black bars on the left monitor. That is why it looks the same.

Screen size is measured diagonally, and you just lost some of that, so you now effectively have a smaller screen. Or in your example, you are comparing what appears to be a slightly larger 16:10 screen w/ a smaller 16:9 one. If you didn't have black bars, you would lose FOV.

Just stop, think for a second, you will figure this out I promise. 16:9 will give you a wider FOV on vert locks.
daveswantek said:
This animation is a farce. 16:9 is shorter then 16:10 not wider. 16 = 16 = no change in width, 9 < 10 = reduction in height. It really is that simple. Now quit playing games and go back to school.
I have run out of palms for my face. Someone lend a hand, er, palm?

Yes, its a reduction in height. Games scale to the size of the screen they are on.

There are different ways to implement scaling with vert locks, hor locks, or pixel locks if you wanna be ultra old-school.

The way most games are made, the scaling is designed for 16:9 play, and so that the image is not distorted, your FOV is reduced horizontally.

Cmon guys, this isn't that hard.
 
did i do something wrong by posting about the actual thread topic? as in i read the initial post and replied about monitors and 1200 horizontal line resolution capability?
The answer is: 1920x1080 monitor has no 1200 horizontal line capability. Its capability is 1080 MAX. Images with higher native resolution will have to be modified or will be displayed interpolated (less sharp).
Your post is not about the actual thread topic because this thread is about nothing. This thread should have been closed after the initial post with the answer "Google". Unfortunately this forum is a total mess (actually this is a chaotic message board) where anyone is free to start a disruptive thread about nothing or something that has been discussed 100 times. Anyone is free to stop and post or ask anything irrelevant.
 
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The answer is: 1920x1080 monitor has no 1200 horizontal line capability. Its capability is 1080 MAX. Images with higher native resolution will have to be modified or will be displayed interpolated (less sharp).
Your post is not about the actual thread topic because this thread is about nothing. This thread should have been closed after the initial post with the answer "Google". Unfortunately this forum is a total mess (actually this is a chaotic message board) where anyone is free to start a disruptive thread about nothing or something that has been discussed 100 times. Anyone is free to stop and post or ask anything irrelevant.

ok sure?

guess i dont care enough to understand.....? i just read a review somewhere by someone else that my particular monitor was running 1200 horizontal if connected via HDMI. i dont care either way....bye? :rolleyes:
 
Dave was right.
Two heads are not always better than one. I can't tell if you're really not getting it, or if you're just getting your lulz playing along. :p

If the former, please read: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ

Scroll down the page to "Screenchange":
Hor+ (Horizontal Plus): A hor + game is a game that when played on a widescreen monitor with a widescreen resolution, expands the horizontal component of the FOV while keeping the vertical component roughly or exactly the same. This is often considered the ideal solution for widescreen games, as it grants widescreen users a wider picture.
The extra FOV will not be as pronounced as in their 4:3 vs 16:9 example obviously, but it holds true all the same. 16:9 provides a wider FOV in most games.
 
Look at the m-o-n-i-t-o-r-s.
Please read the FAQ I linked. You have black bars in your "m-o-n-i-t-o-r" on the left, correct? What kind of scaling does that represent? Hint, the answer is in the FAQ that I linked you and starts with "a" and ends in "namorphic". That is not hor+ scaling, is it? Please acknowledge you understand now by committing seppuku as penance for your shame.

If it helps to think about this in extremes, what happens when you compare Need for Speed on a 4:3 monitor to a eyefinity setup with three widescreen monitors? Do you see more on the eyefinity setup? *nod your head*
 
This animation is a farce. 16:9 is shorter then 16:10 not wider. 16 = 16 = no change in width, 9 < 10 = reduction in height. It really is that simple. Now quit playing games and go back to school.

This post is hilarious. Seriously. You need to go back to school. 16:9 and 16:10 refers to the ratio.

Or do you mean that 16:9 is 3 times as high as 4:3? (9 > 3)

Just to explain
In 16:9 the width is 16/9 = 0.178
In 16:10 the width is 16/10 = 1.6
In 4:3 the width is 4/3 = 1.333

In 4:3 the height is 3/4 = 0.75
In 16:10 the height is 10/16 = 0.625
In 16:9 the height is 9/16 = 0.563

So....
4:3 is higher than 16:10 which is higher than 16:9.
16:9 is wider than 16:10 which is wider than 4:3.
 
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Please read the FAQ I linked.

You are so funny.
Do you see two monitors on the photo?

Both are displaying a Hor+ game with max FOV.
Is there any difference in difference in FOV?
No?

Relax then.
LOL

18975978.jpg
 
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I'm using a 1680x1050 (16:10) 21" S-PVA panel. I swore my next monitor would be the same but larger (in resolution and screen size), but I'm having a hard time finding one that's like that and has a standard gamut (wide gamut is worse for my uses). I'll probably get a 2407wfp off ebay. =(

In my experience, 16:10 is better for typing stuff and editing images. And in regards to 16:9 vs 16:10 in gaming, I'm going to be a bitch and say that I like 16:10 better.

-- Due to the shape of my nose/browridge, 16:10 fills up my [real-life] FOV perfectly. At least for my FOV that is accessible to both of my eyes.

-- In gaming at 16:9, images in the corners are too distorted. Sort of like how panorama photos have things curved that shouldn't be.

-- Wanna play a game that was made over six years ago (Hitman 2, Diablo 2, System Shocks, &c.)? Have fun at 1280x1024 on your 16:9 monitor. I'll play at 1600x1200 (I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet).

-- It's the golden ratio. 16:9 screams "we took something normal and made it wider. We're so creative."
 
Wow, I cant believe how much dumb is in this thread.

The retards who believe 16:9 and 16:10 are the same width are just that retards. Aspect RATIOS are not lengths.

21:9 = 2.333~
16:9 = 1.777~
16:10 = 1.6
4:3 = 1.333~
5:4 = 1.25

These are common aspect ratios and there decimal values. They go from widest to narrowest.

In a Hor+ Games the Vertical FOV (that's up and down for nimrods) stays the same for all resolutions. Then through mathematical trickery, the game calculates the horizontal (left and right guys) FOV for above aspect ratios using those values.

Now for the Egg Heads Who think that the above is the only truth, I have news for you. So lazy developers decided that to add widescreen support in games that they would just obstruct your view. What do I mean?

Well they decided to keep the Horizontal FOV the same for every aspect ratio. For there they did some mathematical bull shit and started hacking away at the vertical FOV the wider the aspect was. This is what we call a Vert- Game. What more interesting is that in this type of game, the narrower your aspect, the more you see. So 4:3 (native aspect the game was made for) will see less then someone running 9:48.

Now what have we learned? Everyone in this thread who thinks they are correct about aspect ratios before researching on how a game renders is a retard.

Review Question: What aspect ratio see more?
Answer: Depends on the Game.

EDIT: Let me touch on resolution real quick, as well as physical size.

Aspect Ratio, Resolution and Physical Size are different parts of the same whole. They effect each other, but they separate. You can have a monitor that is 16:9, that is 1024x768, and 30".

Now that monitor will look like shit, but it can happen. The pixels will be non-square and huge. So things aren't always what they seem.
 
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