Smartphone for WIFI only

A

Ashton

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 13, 2004
Messages
2,514
I'm looking at getting a smartphone for a friend to use on WIFI only with Google Voice

However, in my past experinces, most phones (and especially PDAs - hense why I'm looking at phones) have trouble running purely off WiFi (demanding a cellular connection), especially for extended times (batter life is an issue here)

anyone have any suggestions? I dont care what OS it runs, it's purely to give him a "Cellphone" while on WiFi using google Voice.
 
Google voice doesn't run over WiFi at all as far as I know.

You can get Skype on Android, though. That would be the best IMO. Or what about the iPod touch? Doesn't that support facetime now?
 
kllrnohj said:
Google voice doesn't run over WiFi at all as far as I know.

You can get Skype on Android, though. That would be the best IMO. Or what about the iPod touch? Doesn't that support facetime now?
Click to expand...

Oh that sucks... he needs unlimited voice and SMS over WiFi...

Facetime wont help, it's another PC-to-PC program (well iPhone to Mac but point remains) he calls normal phones. (he's currently out of work so I'm trying to find him a workable solution that's free)

Problem with android is battery life sucks balls. after LOTS of tweaking, I can get a MAX of 20 hours (pure standby) on my EVO...
 
I had a Motorola i1 from Boost that worked fine on just wifi, which is a good thing cause the network sucks ass.
 
Google Voice is designed to work over a connection, period. It would be kinda stupid (sorry, but it is) to have a cell phone and worry about using Google Voice over a cellular connection, wouldn't it? You'd be tapping the bandwidth either way so...

Been using Google Voice with my HD2 running Android for a few weeks now, and I don't use the HD2 as a cell phone which it is designed to be - I don't even have a SIM card in it and Google Voice works just damned fine over the Wi-Fi links I've been able to access both at home and on-the-go- with hotspots at coffee shops, the airport, libraries, etc.
 
The i1 or iphone look good, i1 especially since boost has dirt-cheep calling plans incase he needs to call somone outside of wifi.

Bahamut said:
Been using Google Voice with my HD2 running Android for a few weeks now, and I don't use the HD2 as a cell phone which it is designed to be - I don't even have a SIM card in it and Google Voice works just damned fine over the Wi-Fi links I've been able to access both at home and on-the-go- with hotspots at coffee shops, the airport, libraries, etc.
Click to expand...


I just slapped Googlevoice app on my Evo and got an error when I turned off my cellular radio (though I did it with airplane mode so it might have thought wifi was off) when I turned it back on I got chrystal-clear call, which wouldnt happen if it was data-based (I'm in a 1xRTT area) so I agree - it will work over wifi. though some phones may check for a cell signal first (?)
 
Bahamut said:
Google Voice is designed to work over a connection, period. It would be kinda stupid (sorry, but it is) to have a cell phone and worry about using Google Voice over a cellular connection, wouldn't it? You'd be tapping the bandwidth either way so...
Click to expand...

Google Voice isn't VoIP. When you make a call with Google Voice it makes a regular call. Like, normal voice, not data. Still counts against your cell minutes and everything.

Been using Google Voice with my HD2 running Android for a few weeks now, and I don't use the HD2 as a cell phone which it is designed to be - I don't even have a SIM card in it and Google Voice works just damned fine over the Wi-Fi links I've been able to access both at home and on-the-go- with hotspots at coffee shops, the airport, libraries, etc.
Click to expand...

Uh... you must have setup some other VoIP service then, because Google Voice doesn't offer that. Again, Google Voice is *NOT* a phone service. It does not provide a way to make and receive phone calls by itself.

Ashton said:
Problem with android is battery life sucks balls. after LOTS of tweaking, I can get a MAX of 20 hours (pure standby) on my EVO...
Click to expand...

No, the problem is the *EVO'S* battery life sucks balls. Nothing wrong with Android's battery life. I get 20 hours out of my overclocked Droid with moderate usage no problem - hell, it'll still be at 50% or so. I've left a Droid without a cell connection on standby for 48 hours and battery was still above 80%.
 
kllrnohj said:
Google Voice isn't VoIP. When you make a call with Google Voice it makes a regular call. Like, normal voice, not data. Still counts against your cell minutes and everything.

Uh... you must have setup some other VoIP service then, because Google Voice doesn't offer that. Again, Google Voice is *NOT* a phone service. It does not provide a way to make and receive phone calls by itself.
Click to expand...

I understand it's a new feature, Google DOES provice VoIP services right now (likely on a short-term basis) the friend I'm buying this for used mic/speaker on his PC (no home phone) to call me on google voice.

No, the problem is the *EVO'S* battery life sucks balls. Nothing wrong with Android's battery life. I get 20 hours out of my overclocked Droid with moderate usage no problem - hell, it'll still be at 50% or so. I've left a Droid without a cell connection on standby for 48 hours and battery was still above 80%.
Click to expand...

ok, I admit my phone has the worst battery life of any device in the history of cellular communications... (hell my mother's old bag phone and my father's 80's Brick lasted longer than Evo under Stock config) But I've noticed that more than a few android phones cant get over 8 hours of use without a recharge, so I assumed it was the OS. (My old fliphones got upto 3 days of standby, and my old Samsung Intrepid had close to a week)
 
Just an update to kllrnohj's comment:
I went down in the bacement where I have ZERO reception (but wifi signal) and successfully placed a call using Google Voice. so now we have 2 ppl to confirm that it does work 100% VoIP
 
Ashton said:
ok, I admit my phone has the worst battery life of any device in the history of cellular communications... (hell my mother's old bag phone and my father's 80's Brick lasted longer than Evo under Stock config) But I've noticed that more than a few android phones cant get over 8 hours of use without a recharge, so I assumed it was the OS. (My old fliphones got upto 3 days of standby, and my old Samsung Intrepid had close to a week)
Click to expand...

It's not just the Android, my friend has to turn off his iPhone every day at work (we have a 5 hour shift) because it'll be dead by the end. EVO is definitely the worst though. For whatever reason, it doesn't downclock, so it's burning through the battery at 1ghz, even on standby.
 
Ashton said:
ok, I admit my phone has the worst battery life of any device in the history of cellular communications... (hell my mother's old bag phone and my father's 80's Brick lasted longer than Evo under Stock config) But I've noticed that more than a few android phones cant get over 8 hours of use without a recharge, so I assumed it was the OS. (My old fliphones got upto 3 days of standby, and my old Samsung Intrepid had close to a week)
Click to expand...

That's just a smartphone vs. feature phone thing. A day or two of battery life is about all you've been able to coax out of a smartphone for years now. I had a really old WinMo 5 smartphone - a day of moderate usage was all it could muster. Seems you went from a flip phone straight to the Evo - in which case you got a double shock. The sock of how crappy smartphone battery life is in general, and the shock of how the Evo managed to be crappy even compared to that.

Ashton said:
Just an update to kllrnohj's comment:
I went down in the bacement where I have ZERO reception (but wifi signal) and successfully placed a call using Google Voice. so now we have 2 ppl to confirm that it does work 100% VoIP
Click to expand...

How are you making the calls? I just popped the SIM out of the Android phone I've got with Google Voice installed - and just like I expected when I went to make a call it said mobile network not available (on wifi).

Like I said, Google Voice is not a VoIP service. They let you make calls via gtalk on the desktop now, which is why some of you might be getting confused.

It might become that in the future, but it isn't that now. You can certainly setup free VoIP from your Android phone, though, and then have GV forward to that.
 
kllrnohj said:
That's just a smartphone vs. feature phone thing. A day or two of battery life is about all you've been able to coax out of a smartphone for years now. I had a really old WinMo 5 smartphone - a day of moderate usage was all it could muster. Seems you went from a flip phone straight to the Evo - in which case you got a double shock. The sock of how crappy smartphone battery life is in general, and the shock of how the Evo managed to be crappy even compared to that.
Click to expand...

Semi-sorta. I've had 2 MotoQs and the Intrepid *is* a smartphone, WM6.5. But it's the exception, not the rule (considering how small a capacity battery is has, I cant figure out how it got 4-7 days (dep on useage) Though like you said, lately I've had exceptional battery (with my a900 and my intrepid) and I hit the EVO it did kinda kicked me extra-hard.

kllrnohj said:
How are you making the calls? I just popped the SIM out of the Android phone I've got with Google Voice installed - and just like I expected when I went to make a call it said mobile network not available (on wifi).

Like I said, Google Voice is not a VoIP service. They let you make calls via gtalk on the desktop now, which is why some of you might be getting confused.

It might become that in the future, but it isn't that now. You can certainly setup free VoIP from your Android phone, though, and then have GV forward to that.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to think it's carrier/ROM/etc dependant somehow... (EVO/Sprint/Cyanogen Mod 6.0 Stable) Are you using a stock rom or a custom? If your using stock, It might be the carrier dissabled it on your phone. (just guessing here)

I could NOT have gotten that clarity without it using wifi/voip... now it could have somehow used GTalk, that is installed on my phone, but if so, it's seemless.

Did it ask you "Make this call With Google Voice?" Mine asks and if I say no, it goes through Sprint, if I say Yes it goes through WiFi. (and it shows up on my home Caller ID as my Google number)

I've had unlimited minutes all weekend, so in the morning I'll double-check and see if it docks minutes from my plan.
 
Ashton said:
But I've noticed that more than a few android phones cant get over 8 hours of use without a recharge,
Click to expand...

screenshot3rc.png


8 hours huh?

Take note of what phones you've looked at. How many of them are made by HTC? HTC makes some incredible phones (no pun intended) and are amazing with software updates, however generally their battery lives on their higher end phones lag behind everyone else.

Also, a few things to note that a lot of people don't really think about.

Cellular radios have a minimum and maximum power output. That means if you are standing right next to a cell tower, your phone will need very little power to send and receive a signal. However if you have shitty reception, the phone will continue to use more and more power until its maximum to do what it wants to do. For GSM on the 850/900 band, for instance, its maximum output is 2W. That's a lot for such a tiny battery.

Likewise with WiFi, however its maximum power is far less (I think in America it's 100mW).

So if you're bunkered down in a mancave lined with lead, you may have some problems with battery life.
 
Neurofreeze said:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9835/screenshot3rc.png
8 hours huh?
Click to expand...

Holy shit! What phone/ROM is that?!?! Best, BEST i've heard of an android is 30 hours (stock battery not double)

Neurofreeze said:
Take note of what phones you've looked at. How many of them are made by HTC? HTC makes some incredible phones (no pun intended) and are amazing with software updates, however generally their battery lives on their higher end phones lag behind everyone else.
Also, a few things to note that a lot of people don't really think about.
Cellular radios have a minimum and maximum power output. That means if you are standing right next to a cell tower, your phone will need very little power to send and receive a signal. However if you have shitty reception, the phone will continue to use more and more power until its maximum to do what it wants to do. For GSM on the 850/900 band, for instance, its maximum output is 2W. That's a lot for such a tiny battery.
Click to expand...

I had assumed people's claims woudl take that into consideration, though now that I think about it, most people probably dont... Also I didnt realize HTC made such power-hungry phones... yeah most of the ones I looked at are HTC... (and ironically when I think about it most of the really really long-lasting ones I've looked at are Samsung...)

Though my Evo gets 3-4 bars 24/7 thanks to my airave and it still maxes at ~20 hours

Also I was wrong, I had it clocked @ 700mhz not 500mhz (I've since re-under-clocked it) though since this was only when it's turned on, it likely wont have a huge impact... screen off it's at like 150mhz or something...
 
Neurofreeze said:
For GSM on the 850/900 band, for instance, its maximum output is 2W.
Click to expand...

Not sure where that came from, but there isn't a handheld cell phone in this galaxy that puts out that kind of power. ;)

That was the kind of wattage you'd see with bag phones with very large high capacity batteries (hence the need for the bag's space) many years ago because analog transmissions required it, but that kind of power output simply isn't possible with today's pure digital hardware and it's not even required. Even the infamous Motorola "Brick" cell phones barely cranked out 3/4 watt at maximum output.

To get 2 watts out of a handheld cell phone, we'd be looking at batteries bigger than the phones themselves... and actual antennas would be required to handle the load, not some foil wafer.
 
Bahamut said:
Not sure where that came from, but there isn't a handheld cell phone in this galaxy that puts out that kind of power. ;)

That was the kind of wattage you'd see with bag phones with very large high capacity batteries (hence the need for the bag's space) many years ago because analog transmissions required it, but that kind of power output simply isn't possible with today's pure digital hardware and it's not even required. Even the infamous Motorola "Brick" cell phones barely cranked out 3/4 watt at maximum output.

To get 2 watts out of a handheld cell phone, we'd be looking at batteries bigger than the phones themselves... and actual antennas would be required to handle the load, not some foil wafer.
Click to expand...


First, that's just part of the current GSM spec ( 850/900 max is 2W, 1800/1900 max is 1W).

Second, that's MAXIMUM power output. Like I said, were you under conditions where your phone would continually try to do this, your battery would last a very short time indeed. I'm not 100% sure but I think it actually starts off at 150mW and continues to climb a set amount until it can send/receive, up to its maximum.

A 1500mAh battery holds theoretically holds 5400 Coulombs. 2 W is 2 Joules/sec. Phones run around 3.7-ish volts (which is Joules/Coulomb). That means if 100% of the power was being put into 100% of the 900MHz band (which is not plausible since I believe this is the receive band for AT&T, outgoing being 1900 in most areas? Not sure.), that would equate to about one hour of talk time, which is about a fifth of the max talk time Samsung advertises for the Galaxy S. It's completely reasonable. I'm not saying your phone WILL do that, as those conditions are pretty ridiculous, but your phone will pump out a lot of juice under non-optimal areas.
 
Ashton said:
Holy shit! What phone/ROM is that?!?! Best, BEST i've heard of an android is 30 hours (stock battery not double)
Click to expand...

It's the newest Cognition ROM (2.3b6) on my Captivate, stock 1500 mAh battery (I don't think extended batteries even exist for Captivates yet).

However that is also with ~7 hours of me sleeping with Fring on. There's a decent amount of talk time on there though, plus normal stuff, reading webpages, texting, IMing, uploading/downloading to my dropbox, however all through WiFI, none on 3G.

Conversely, when I'm at the office, where reception is so poor I can't even send/receive a text message if there's too many people in the room (which is hilarious and weird that actual bodies are enough to do this; me and the three iPhone 4 guys, all of us on AT&T, just give up using our phones when we have a meeting, then we all look at each other and sigh), my battery lasts like... 8 hours.
 
Last edited:
Ashton said:
I'm starting to think it's carrier/ROM/etc dependant somehow... (EVO/Sprint/Cyanogen Mod 6.0 Stable) Are you using a stock rom or a custom? If your using stock, It might be the carrier dissabled it on your phone. (just guessing here)
Click to expand...

Stock ROM, but nothing is carrier disabled.

I could NOT have gotten that clarity without it using wifi/voip... now it could have somehow used GTalk, that is installed on my phone, but if so, it's seemless.
Click to expand...

I didn't say you weren't using VoIP, I said GVoice isn't VoIP. That doesn't mean that Sprint isn't falling back to wifi themselves or something like that.

Did it ask you "Make this call With Google Voice?" Mine asks and if I say no, it goes through Sprint, if I say Yes it goes through WiFi. (and it shows up on my home Caller ID as my Google number)

I've had unlimited minutes all weekend, so in the morning I'll double-check and see if it docks minutes from my plan.
Click to expand...

Yes I tried to make the call with gvoice - that is set as my default.
 
@ Neurofreeze: I see what you did. I unplugged my phone this morning, slid it in my pocket, and didnt touch it, after 12 hours (as per battery screen) it was at 76% battery. *technically* I guess I can get 48 hours of life, but that's not really "life" in my opinion as it means you cant touch your phone... also this is WITH the double-capacity battery, so...

@ kllrnohj:
ok, I *AM* getting docked minutes. However a quick search reveals a simple solution: Sipgate + GoogleVoice Callback. Installed the two and now I *DO* have unlimited calling on my phone using VoIP, and I can use my google-voice number as my phone # (wonder if I can set up my sprint # to forward and loop-around so it rings my cell *and* any SIP phones I configure... prolly still docks minutes tho... but would fix my questionable reception issues with WiFi but no CDMA...)

Not the *best* setup, but it works. considering 99.99% of my calls are not urgent and I can wait the extra 2 minutes to fiddle with my phone for free calls, it's worth it ^_^ Also means that I *can* still use a WiFi phone and Google Voice to create a wifi-cellphone as I planned in my original post.
 
I don't get what everyone is talking about? Is Everyone saying, You can make free call's via WiFi Without having a Carrier?
 
grilledcheese said:
I don't get what everyone is talking about? Is Everyone saying, You can make free call's via WiFi Without having a Carrier?
Click to expand...

Yes. It's called VoIP or "Voice Over Internet Protocol" but it requires the proper software (in this case, the only workable way is to use a SIP account (I prefer sipgate), a SIP client (Sipdroid), and a callback service (Google Voice) so all your calls are routed through the internet-based SIP service)

The only drawback is there is a noticable 1-2 second delay between when you speak and when the other person hears you (though this is occasionally the case even on normal cell calls)

If your interested I'll post a link to the instructions.
 
Ashton said:
Yes. It's called VoIP or "Voice Over Internet Protocol" but it requires the proper software (in this case, the only workable way is to use a SIP account (I prefer sipgate), a SIP client (Sipdroid), and a callback service (Google Voice) so all your calls are routed through the internet-based SIP service)

The only drawback is there is a noticable 1-2 second delay between when you speak and when the other person hears you (though this is occasionally the case even on normal cell calls)

If your interested I'll post a link to the instructions.
Click to expand...

Please! That would be very helpful. I have a droid Phone but no active Service.
 
Follow this guide:
http://lifehacker.com/5349506/make-free-voip-calls-from-google-voice

BUT
After it's all set up, get out your phone and install "SipDroid" and "Google Voice Callback"

You just enter your information from SIPgate into SipDroid, then set Google Voice Callback to call you back on your SIP number.

Now when you dial a number it will ask "Use Google Voice Callback?" you choose "yes" it will say "registering callback" and your phone will start ringing, you answer it, and you hear thetones of it ringing the person you were calling. Congrats, your using VoIP to make free calls from your cell!

(a word of warning, though, SIPdroid is not the best at monitoring it's own server connection. If you leave WiFi range you will need to Exit and restart SIPdroid once your back in range or you wont get any of the callbacks)
 
sensime said:
Google voice is much better.
Click to expand...

Google voice is only a callback program for most of us. only a small handful of people have VoIP through it (if it were true VoIP I would agree) for now the rest of us who dont have VoIP through GV have to use SIPgate+SIPdroid+GV to get free calls on our cells.
 
Ashton said:
Follow this guide:
http://lifehacker.com/5349506/make-free-voip-calls-from-google-voice

BUT
After it's all set up, get out your phone and install "SipDroid" and "Google Voice Callback"

You just enter your information from SIPgate into SipDroid, then set Google Voice Callback to call you back on your SIP number.

Now when you dial a number it will ask "Use Google Voice Callback?" you choose "yes" it will say "registering callback" and your phone will start ringing, you answer it, and you hear thetones of it ringing the person you were calling. Congrats, your using VoIP to make free calls from your cell!

(a word of warning, though, SIPdroid is not the best at monitoring it's own server connection. If you leave WiFi range you will need to Exit and restart SIPdroid once your back in range or you wont get any of the callbacks)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help, but my post clearly said " No Carrier". My phone does'nt even have a number for Me to even get a invitation code.
 
grilledcheese said:
Thanks for the help, but my post clearly said " No Carrier". My phone does'nt even have a number for Me to even get a invitation code.
Click to expand...

Nowhere do you have to recieve an SMS on your droid phone. Google Voice can recieve SMS, just put your GV number for the # on the invite code option. The phone itself is just passing info from SIPdroid and GV, just like a PC (which also has no carrier, but can be used just the same)
 
Ashton said:
@ Neurofreeze: I see what you did. I unplugged my phone this morning, slid it in my pocket, and didnt touch it, after 12 hours (as per battery screen) it was at 76% battery. *technically* I guess I can get 48 hours of life, but that's not really "life" in my opinion as it means you cant touch your phone... also this is WITH the double-capacity battery, so...
Click to expand...

No one makes extended capacity batteries for the Captivate, so that part is automatically not possible for me.

Also I used the phone moderately over the day, and I also said that was with about 7 hours of sleeping idle time (me actually sleeping). You can see that I did indeed use the phone moderately with the wifi and voice call usage. Phone call I believe was about 30 minutes. So really the battery life was about 16 hours for 50%-ish.

This was mostly at home and in other areas with a nice wifi signal and 4-5 bars for voice calls. No straining anything. If I were in the office where I get very little signal and try to use 3G, holy shit does my battery drain fast. Or if I use GPS, I'd probably be out a full charge in two hours flat (but in that case I would simply plug it into my car charger as I'm using Google Nav).
 
that may be one of my problems, I leave the gps on all the time... I'll try turning it off to see if that improves my battery life any...
 
Ashton said:
Nowhere do you have to recieve an SMS on your droid phone. Google Voice can recieve SMS, just put your GV number for the # on the invite code option. The phone itself is just passing info from SIPdroid and GV, just like a PC (which also has no carrier, but can be used just the same)
Click to expand...

Oh OK Thank's will try with a Google number.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top