Microsoft Sending Inspectors To China

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Microsoft isn’t wasting any time sending inspectors to China to investigate the poor working conditions recently reported by the National Labor Committee.

As a result of this report, we have a team of independent auditors en route to the facility to conduct a complete and thorough investigation. If we find that the factory is not adhering to our standards, we will take appropriate action.
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I wonder what they think "fair" is.
This kind of treatment is probably the industry standard in China.
 
did apple even investigate thier supplies? or did they just tell them to make sure everyone that talks is silenced?
 
Yeah, everyone wins (except the workers). The Chinese slave drivers are prepared for the inspection ahead of time and Microsoft looks like they care about the workers to the Western consumers.
 
If we find that the factory is not adhering to our standards, we will take appropriate action.
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Yeah, so instead of the workers standing for 15 hours straight elbow to elbow, they will be moved 1.5" apart and made to work 14 hours and 52 minutes. In addition to that, they will add one more standard 12" house fan to the 3000sqft factory floor to cool it down .0000000000000000001 degrees C.
That'll shut up them whining worker bees.
 
Have Americans build it in the US. Yeah I know, they double or even triple, the cost of mfg something. But, more Americans being able to afford to buy your shit has to count for something.

Meh, nothing is going to change, the Chinese workers will still be treated poorly, and will still work at a wage level that virtually insures they can not actually afford to purchase what they are making.

It is kind of like the old Ford joke.
What is the difference between a Ford plant in the US and a Ford plant in Mexico?
The size of the employee parking lot.
 
Funny, when I read that MS response I kept hearing the Charlie Brown wha wha wha. Seems to me that if they have regular inspections, yet they are not allowed to tour the facility, there might be a problem with the inspector's reports.
 
If we find that the factory is not adhering to our standards, we will take appropriate action.

You already found out. Or more likely you already new about it and now you have to look like your doing something about it.
 
It's a PR move. MS just doesn't want to look like they approve of such working conditions when in reality they could give a crap less about it.

Watch them come back in a month and say they found little to no evidence of poor working conditions but have put the targeted manufacturing firms "on notice!"

It's all BS.
 
jwalk6 said:
It's a PR move. MS just doesn't want to look like they approve of such working conditions when in reality they could give a crap less about it.

Watch them come back in a month and say they found little to no evidence of poor working conditions but have put the targeted manufacturing firms "on notice!"

It's all BS.
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Yeah, but if they come back and they say that, then people are going to wonder "Then WTF was that NLC report about? We're they blatantly lying?". I think that would necessitate a bigger PR move that wouldn't be as pleasant.
 
xSnowmaNx said:
Yeah, but if they come back and they say that, then people are going to wonder "Then WTF was that NLC report about? We're they blatantly lying?". I think that would necessitate a bigger PR move that wouldn't be as pleasant.
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That's what the "on notice" part is for.

These 30 second news/sound bytes only get digested in small chunks. Enough time will pass so that an announcement like what I suggested will come out and nobody will remember the report that prompted it.

:cool:
 
china bejing govt says: close it, fix it
china local govt is told: wait till they leave, reopen it
china bejing govt says: we didn't know it was open

this is how they handle most illegal mine scenarios with lots of favors/money exchanging hands.
 
GORANKAR said:
Have Americans build it in the US. Yeah I know, they double or even triple, the cost of mfg something. But, more Americans being able to afford to buy your shit has to count for something.

Meh, nothing is going to change, the Chinese workers will still be treated poorly, and will still work at a wage level that virtually insures they can not actually afford to purchase what they are making.

It is kind of like the old Ford joke.
What is the difference between a Ford plant in the US and a Ford plant in Mexico?
The size of the employee parking lot.
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This reminds me of another country I know; where the wages keep going down and 100 year old laws that help the workers keep getting repealed, and most of the country Is In debt from buying S**T they can't afford, but that's okay, this country has credit cards to get you even deeper In debt. Funny, I can't seem to remember the name of that shite-hole though.....
 
the MS hate is just ridiculous. Microsoft is not the devil given all the charity that Mr. Gates gives I highly doubt he only cares about maximum income if that were true he wouldnt do all that he does.. and its way beyond what is even allowable as tax write offs.

Not to mention at the end of the day its a citizens own country who is responsible for protecting the rights of there citizens from corporations not the other way around.

The anger should be at the Chinese Govt and what is considered acceptable treatment by their culture.
 
We can always move our factories back to the US, increase the cost of electronics, then leave the Chinese with very few jobs for their 2 billion citizens.

If other countries didn't build factories in China, a lot of them probably would be unemployed.
 
krotch said:
We can always move our factories back to the US, increase the cost of electronics, then leave the Chinese with very few jobs for their 2 billion citizens.

If other countries didn't build factories in China, a lot of them probably would be unemployed.
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That's the rub though. It's not countries building the factories there, it's multinational corporation's that have shareholders. As long as the books stay in the black, said shareholders and by extension their individual boards of directors will never do that, period.
 
I'd just like to address a comment related to employment conditions that was in the last thread, posted by Snowdog

Middle class for the factory owners maybe, but these factory workers are not middle class, there is no standard of living when you live in the factory, work 8am to midnight 7 days a week.

This is the perfect example of a race to the bottom. It is even dragging down standards in other countries as China sets the competitive standard, holding down labor conditions in other countries.
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Dragging down standards in other countries is a very accusing way of saying "I'm too fucking lazy myself and don't want to work, so people that do want to work should just stop trying to survive and go home."

The truth is, there are people in this world that work harder and will work for less. It's not their fault that they want to work harder. It's your fault that you've grown accustomed to sitting in your ivory tower. In other words, keep a strong work ethic and a good attitude, and you will always be able to overcome your troubles.
 
dajet24 said:
the MS hate is just ridiculous. Microsoft is not the devil given all the charity that Mr. Gates gives I highly doubt he only cares about maximum income if that were true he wouldn't do all that he does.. and its way beyond what is even allowable as tax write offs.

Not to mention at the end of the day its a citizens own country who is responsible for protecting the rights of there citizens from corporations not the other way around.

The anger should be at the Chinese Govt and what is considered acceptable treatment by their culture.
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First of all Bill Gates is just as big a scum ball as any other Wall Street CEO. His success wasn't achieved by playing the saint his whole career. If Microsoft didn't cheat, steal and illegally crush their competition on his orders they wouldn't be the monster they are now and they wouldn't keep getting sued worldwide for it. His charitable work has less to do with humanitarianism than his own preservation of wealth and image.

And yes, Companies do have liability in this since they'd rather offshore factory work to places that condone near slave labor while millions in their own countries beg for jobs at fast food joints. All in the name of their so-called bottom line.

We can't do anything about China and you'd have to be stupid to be surprised at their human rights abuses. Any company that chooses to do business in a country like that where their only recourse is waving a stern finger doesn't deserve to be given "a break"
Anyone who thinks that MS(or any other company) is going to pull all their operations out of China over stuff like this is kidding themselves as well. They'll just move to another Chinese contractor or find another country with a pool of slave labor to make their wares.

Of course this is a WalMart world and we all gotta have the latest shiny object no matter who suffered to get it to you. So in the end none of this crap really matters because nothing's going to change in a consumer economy with no moral center and collective IQ of 50.

:cool:
 
GORANKAR said:
Huh? The jobs left because US employees cost more for a number of reasons, the companies are taxed more in the US, and because share holders want $.10 on the dallar instead of $.09. It has nothing to do with an ivory tower, laziness, or lack of hard work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLni3wbndls&feature=related for a laugh.
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Actually, it does. When people are willing to work 12 hours a day vs. people that work 8-9 hours a day, there's a big difference in who's the harder worker. I'm not saying you have to work 12 hours a day, but if you don't, you can't seriously expect to be competitive with someone working 12, unless your work produces better quality at lower price (let me rephrase this, better quality as LOWER PRICE), or greater net gain.
 
jwalk6 said:
First of all Bill Gates is just as big a scum ball as any other Wall Street CEO. His success wasn't achieved by playing the saint his whole career. If Microsoft didn't cheat, steal and illegally crush their competition on his orders they wouldn't be the monster they are now and they wouldn't keep getting sued worldwide for it. His charitable work has less to do with humanitarianism than his own preservation of wealth and image.
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oh come on, all of that is just wild accusations at best. i mean its obvious you hate the man and the company, but you cant read the guy's mind. of course he is evil and wouldnt actually want to help people becuase he is a big rich guy and we all know people that have more money than other people are evil..... :rolleyes:

you can attack practices by a company all you want, but what basis is there for attacking someone personally and pretend to know their intentions...

its almost like people will assume all ceos are evil and anyone making over a certain amount of money disqualify them from the rest of humanity, no chance they might have some sort of moral compass lol.
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As far as what MS is doing, well it sounds like this is all they can do beyond actually cutting all ties with that company. Im sure MS was aware that people doing the labor are being paid less than those in the US, but what is important is if they know that conditions there are below whatever the standard should be in China.

Bottom line is that it may turn out that MS does nothing and this was just damage control, but at least they are doing more than Apple did.
 
trooper11 said:
oh come on, all of that is just wild accusations at best. i mean its obvious you hate the man and the company, but you cant read the guy's mind. of course he is evil and wouldnt actually want to help people becuase he is a big rich guy and we all know people that have more money than other people are evil..... :rolleyes:

you can attack practices by a company all you want, but what basis is there for attacking someone personally and pretend to know their intentions...

its almost like people will assume all ceos are evil and anyone making over a certain amount of money disqualify them from the rest of humanity, no chance they might have some sort of moral compass lol.
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As far as what MS is doing, well it sounds like this is all they can do beyond actually cutting all ties with that company. Im sure MS was aware that people doing the labor are being paid less than those in the US, but what is important is if they know that conditions there are below whatever the standard should be in China.

Bottom line is that it may turn out that MS does nothing and this was just damage control, but at least they are doing more than Apple did.
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Of course you're right. I have no basis for my wild rantings about such a great man.
Poor Microsoft, Poor Bill, I'm sure the Catholic church is getting ready to nominate him for sainthood the minute he croaks.
:rolleyes:
 
Cyrilix said:
unless your work produces better quality at lower price (let me rephrase this, better quality as LOWER PRICE), or greater net gain.
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There is the problem right there... everything needs to be cut to the bone nowadays and frankly, its a race to the bottom.

And I don't think its to do with quality since we are a throwaway society these days... commodity items like laptops and components ain't built to last.

So you send all your work overseas to compete with your largest competitor. For a while it may work, but then what happens when he does it too... you are both back on level footing. Where do you go from there? Start beating the staff less so they can work more, pay them less?

As long as we all buy from the lowest bidder then this will continue and since its only happening "over there" we will be blissfully unaware it goes on.
 
jwalk6 said:
Of course you're right. I have no basis for my wild rantings about such a great man.
Poor Microsoft, Poor Bill, I'm sure the Catholic church is getting ready to nominate him for sainthood the minute he croaks.
:rolleyes:
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lol @ Catholic church. As if they have so much integrity (let's all forget about their problems as they repent over their sins) and as if Gates cares about what they think. Nominating him for Sainthood isn't going to help fight/cure aids and the various diseases in the world, Gates' foundation actually helps.
 
Dev1ant said:
lol @ Catholic church. As if they have so much integrity (let's all forget about their problems as they repent over their sins) and as if Gates cares about what they think. Nominating him for Sainthood isn't going to help fight/cure aids and the various diseases in the world, Gates' foundation actually helps.
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Exactly!

A man who's whole career is based on lies and deceit and sits in front of congress begging for H1B visas because American's are too stupid for him. Then threatens to move MS to Canada because of his righteous indignation over Anti-Trust as well as H1B charges. Let's also not forget the "contractors" working at MS who were actually employees who ended up getting stock options after a lawsuit and the IRS proved that MS was only calling them contractors to get out of stock options and benefits.

Yeah, great guy there. I don't buy his charitable actions as genuine for a minute. Maybe his wife is genuine but his motives are more likely to be crafted by a PR man than any sense of humanity.

I see Bill Gates as another Henry Ford. Great things ended up happening in spite of character flaws but dig a bit deeper and you see a guy you wouldn't want to be in the same room with.

:cool:
 
CosmicWobble said:
There is the problem right there... everything needs to be cut to the bone nowadays and frankly, its a race to the bottom.

And I don't think its to do with quality since we are a throwaway society these days... commodity items like laptops and components ain't built to last.

So you send all your work overseas to compete with your largest competitor. For a while it may work, but then what happens when he does it too... you are both back on level footing. Where do you go from there? Start beating the staff less so they can work more, pay them less?

As long as we all buy from the lowest bidder then this will continue and since its only happening "over there" we will be blissfully unaware it goes on.
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There is nothing wrong with buying from the lowest bidder, especially when it comes to technology. But just expect that the jobs you apply for will likely go to the best output for the money..

The problem is, that AS the wages goes down.. the prices typically don't go down as much as the wages do. Quite the opposite, the prices go up in many cases (not all). Not only do the prices go up because of the corporatist regulations and policies we have, they also go up as a result of price inflation. Unfortunately, it seems that even now, wages are holding steady and employment is weak, but prices sure aren't falling any. In fact, most analysts predict prices will be increasing as a result of current monetary policy (which is to attempt) to get rid of the correction. The correction being the falling of prices in what really is just highly subsidized/inflated markets (oh god, NOT THAT) and likely the falling of wages as well. Which technically, are a result of destructive policy yet again.

Falling wages aren't bad, so long as falling prices are also a result. If you believe competition will drop wages, then you would deduct that it would drop prices as well. That is, in a society where wages don't drop by default... inherently in the system of exchange to begin with.

That is the way my brain interprets the situation though. I'm a free market capitalist sicko though. :)
 
mybsetsmyshrts said:
This reminds me of another country I know; where the wages keep going down and 100 year old laws that help the workers keep getting repealed, and most of the country Is In debt from buying S**T they can't afford, but that's okay, this country has credit cards to get you even deeper In debt. Funny, I can't seem to remember the name of that shite-hole though.....
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Oh please, such bullshit. Try traveling the world a bit for some perspective instead of making your opinions up out of thin air.
 
distortion69 said:
There is nothing wrong with buying from the lowest bidder, especially when it comes to technology. But just expect that the jobs you apply for will likely go to the best output for the money..

The problem is, that AS the wages goes down.. the prices typically don't go down as much as the wages do. Quite the opposite, the prices go up in many cases (not all). Not only do the prices go up because of the corporatist regulations and policies we have, they also go up as a result of price inflation. Unfortunately, it seems that even now, wages are holding steady and employment is weak, but prices sure aren't falling any. In fact, most analysts predict prices will be increasing as a result of current monetary policy (which is to attempt) to get rid of the correction. The correction being the falling of prices in what really is just highly subsidized/inflated markets (oh god, NOT THAT) and likely the falling of wages as well. Which technically, are a result of destructive policy yet again.

Falling wages aren't bad, so long as falling prices are also a result. If you believe competition will drop wages, then you would deduct that it would drop prices as well. That is, in a society where wages don't drop by default... inherently in the system of exchange to begin with.

That is the way my brain interprets the situation though. I'm a free market capitalist sicko though. :)
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I agree with you... I'm a rampant capitalist too (not corporatist tho, there's a difference) and I am all in favour of "may the best man win" but when they are all competing on price, well, the lowest price anyway this is the inevitable consequence of it once you hit rock bottom... something has to give in the pursuit of $s
 
a very easy way for intel to REALLY make good pr would be to use unionized labor only.
 
jwalk6 said:
Exactly!

A man who's whole career is based on lies and deceit and sits in front of congress begging for H1B visas because American's are too stupid for him. Then threatens to move MS to Canada because of his righteous indignation over Anti-Trust as well as H1B charges. Let's also not forget the "contractors" working at MS who were actually employees who ended up getting stock options after a lawsuit and the IRS proved that MS was only calling them contractors to get out of stock options and benefits.

Yeah, great guy there. I don't buy his charitable actions as genuine for a minute. Maybe his wife is genuine but his motives are more likely to be crafted by a PR man than any sense of humanity.

I see Bill Gates as another Henry Ford. Great things ended up happening in spite of character flaws but dig a bit deeper and you see a guy you wouldn't want to be in the same room with.

:cool:
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Your views on H1B visas I think are misinformed.
 
krupted said:
a very easy way for intel to REALLY make good pr would be to use unionized labor only.
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Generally unions are often created under hard working environments, dynamic employment numbers, and high risked workers who can be replaced very easily.

A union isn't needed for intel.

(Please feel free to correct anything.)
 
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