Are DVDs Nearing the End?

qdemn7 said:
Vinyl is NOT dead.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20090917/ENTERTAINMENT04/709179881

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/features/Just-for-the-record-vinyl.5719163.jp

http://www.georgetownvoice.com/2009/09/17/spin-some-discs-with-dc-record-stores/
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I agree with qdemn7 here...

Not based on the links but the fact that being a high def audio listener. No matter how quality your CD or HD digital audio is (mp3, aac, etc), there is nothing that compares to true Analog audio. When setting up Audio systems if the origination source comes from a digital format (CD/DVD/PC), hardware within the unit must convert the Digital Audio to analog (DAC) before it reaches the speakers/headphones. That conversion is always a loss of quality and people spend thousands of dollars to to reduce that loss of quality. True analog vinyl straight to the speakers/headphones is audio as its finest. For that reason, there will always be a demand for vinyl.
 
CDs > DVDs when burning 700MB or less.
Anything more than 700MB goes on a DVD.
Bluray is too expensive and nobody has a bluray burner or drive.
 
To put proper perspective in statements made by Reed Hastings, you just have to understand why the name Netflix was chosen for the company.
The entire goal for them is to provide as much if not more content digitally rather than by physical media. And looking at the advances they have made over the past several years, I could see them phasing shipping down to a minimum within 5 years. There are still problems to be worked out, but they have gone a very good bit of the way toward providing one of the best digital distribution systems.

The rest of the market, no, I dont see physical media dissapearing at anywhere near a rate like that, but you never know. Once the ball starts really gaining momentum, it may go faster than anyone anticipates.
 
While streaming video is nice, I don't think it'll take off until people can rip the streams. The nice thing about DVDs is that I can make a backup and watch the stuff on my time.
 
I've been a Netflix subscriber since June. I watch everything on a 26" Samsung 1080i-capable television. I also bought a LG BluRay player recently that has a built-in Netflix browser. [Before anyone asks: No, I do not want a PS3 because I don't want to go hunting for an older model that will play the few PS2 games I have and pay through the nose for it's obscurity. No, I do not want an XBox 360 either because I don't want to send the console in every 3-6 months to fix a RROD issue while still having to find some way of playing Blu-Ray discs.] With this in mind, as a customer perhaps I can qualify a few statements made by the folks at Netflix.

I rent DVDs from them and not Blu-Ray because:

1.) It's an extra $2 month for the option of renting BluRay, but it seems less than 30% of the movies/series I'm interested in are available in BluRay format anyway (that's not a hard number, just a guess based on recent browsing). My tastes are all over the place, but the definite BD selection deficiency lies in foreign or obscure films and series that have not been updated for HD viewing.

2.) Most DVDs upscale just fine with the BluRay player I have, which pretty much negates any reason to get BluRay. My justification is: "I'm renting, not buying..." Movies & shows I want to own will be bought on BluRay where possible (as a cinephile, The Dark Knight is totally worth it on BluRay, and I'm sure the upcoming Star Trek disc will be too).

I use their streaming service and like it because:

1.) Obviously, it's convenient. I add something to my queue, I watch it right then and there. I don't have to wait for a disc in the mail. I don't have to delay another movie or show if I want to see something beforehand (this came in handy when watching Dexter: Season 1-3, since the first two were available instantly, I got #3 mailed to me on disc, and now I can watch season 4 as the episodes come out instantly).

2.) The quality difference between watching a DVD versus streaming video is negligible, at least in my case. Dexter and 30 Rock stream in HD, and all of the films appear in reasonable quality, save one or two outliers.

Is their streaming service perfect? No. I'd like subtitle options for foreign films (I'm sure the hearing impaired would like subtitles for all films, though). It would be nice if they offered quality options for those who know they have traffic caps or slower connections, rather than "guessing" and changing the quality dynamically. I can understand not hosting brand new films for streaming (until they upgrade their servers to handle the capacity of millions of users hitting them up for a new release, anyway). However, in the end, I can't complain about something that is available essentially for free with my mail-in subscription, both of which beat the hell out of going to a rental store, dealing with the meager 'on demand' options from cable or satellite providers, or buying a movie blindly, used or new, and hoping it doesn't suck.
 
deff said:
Just like Obama's Nobel Peace Prize, this is premature.
............................
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I thought it was Bush's fault. Or was it Clinton. I bet you it's Washington's, yeah that's it, Washington. Damn George Washington, if it weren't for you, 8 track would still be here today for all of us to enjoy.
:rolleyes:
 
As long as people are still buying them, they will keep selling them. No tech is even close if I can still buy it in walmart.
 
eFX said:
No matter how quality your CD or HD digital audio is (mp3, aac, etc), there is nothing that compares to true Analog audio.
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There is no medium that can retain 'true' analog audio. Not magnetic tape, not the vinyl record, not the wax cylinder. They all quantize -- just like CDs.

eFX said:
True analog vinyl straight to the speakers/headphones is audio as its finest.
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Vinyl also exhibits the finest hiss, pops, warble and flutter. By "finest" I of course mean "the worst of any current recording medium" :)
 
If DVDs do die, it won't be b/c of streaming video. It'll be b/c of Blu-ray. But right now, Blu-ray hardware and software is way more expensive than DVD. Until they approach DVD's price, Blu-ray won't steal significant market share from DVD.
 
Blu-Ray Disc software is pretty much there already. Sure DVD is still cheaper, but Blu-Ray Disc software has rapidly approached a price-point that took DVD years to reach, not to mention hardware prices dropping in record time. I'm fairly certain you'll see multiple sub-$100 tabletop Blu-Ray Disc units for sale before the end of the year.

I would consider packaged media as one corner of the market and streaming media as another; I really don't see them as competition. Mainly because you can't top Blu-Ray Disc's significantly higher bitrate and quality versus streamed content.
 
Let me see. Enterprises like to complicate things so they can get more flux of money. If they get a process with more complexity they get more revenue, as simple as that. Is not a question of whether or not DVDs are history but a question of if we want them/ can afford to make then become history.
 
phide said:
There is no medium that can retain 'true' analog audio. Not magnetic tape, not the vinyl record, not the wax cylinder. They all quantize -- just like CDs.


Vinyl also exhibits the finest hiss, pops, warble and flutter. By "finest" I of course mean "the worst of any current recording medium" :)
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What did you do? Didn't took care of your Vinyl. He's telling the truth is a straight through signal and it will always sound better. You can't beat physics. And though you're right. (I still remember the songs of DP Made in Japan as the LP got stuck and Coverdale repeated the same word over and over when I hear it on MP3).
Telling the cons doesn't get rid of the pros.

If you do it right Vinyl is Better than Digital. People just want to be careless.
 
Azhar said:
8-track and Vinyl is dead. Cassette tapes - maybe. Still quite a few audio books that uses cassette tapes.

:-P
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vinyl isnt dead. If your into cheap and are ok with lower quality sound you may not own/shop for vinyl but there is quite a few new releases available on vinyl as well as stores that do nothing but buy/sell vinyl.
 
Aku12 said:
vinyl isnt dead. If your into cheap and are ok with lower quality sound you may not own/shop for vinyl but there is quite a few new releases available on vinyl as well as stores that do nothing but buy/sell vinyl.
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Theres also many stores that do nothing but sell things for under $5
 
Aku12 said:
vinyl isnt dead. If your into cheap and are ok with lower quality sound you may not own/shop for vinyl but there is quite a few new releases available on vinyl as well as stores that do nothing but buy/sell vinyl.
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Cheap? How about realistic? How about modern? Or wait, how about being able to have ALL new releases, not just a few?

I run and ride my bike. If you can point me to a manufacturer that buys PVP (that's portable vinyl player), I'll buy you a beer every night for a year.

Cheap, lol. Alrighty then.
 
Azhar said:
Cheap? How about realistic? How about modern? Or wait, how about being able to have ALL new releases, not just a few?

I run and ride my bike. If you can point me to a manufacturer that buys PVP (that's portable vinyl player), I'll buy you a beer every night for a year.

Cheap, lol. Alrighty then.
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Damn man, settle down for a sec. He wasn't saying there aren't perks to digital media, just that vinyl is not dead, especially to those willing to pay for it. He obviously enjoys music to the point where he'll go the extra mile to get the most out of it, much like you'll buy a 4890 to enjoy the extra eye candy it allows. You could just run an old 7600gt and play with low settings. You like to crank it a bit though, so you spend more to achieve your goals.

As far as having ALL the releases goes, do you buy every game that comes out. Do you even want to?

Enthusiasts exist for all hobbies.
 
Doh, on topic.

DVDs are going nowhere as a media type goes. They are still the most cost effective optical media for storage and back-up. They'll be the standard for game/movie releases for years to come due to their market penetration.

I mean, how long did it take VHS to get shunted off of the shelves at WalMart?
 
Another attempt by some schmo trying to spread FUD. With reports of Blu-ray continuing to grow especially during the current economic down turn this article/blog has no merit. Plus as others has stated...bandwidth caps won't allow digital downloads to take off in this day and age. Nice try M$.
 
Enduring_Warrior said:
He's telling the truth is a straight through signal and it will always sound better.
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Not if the recording medium itself is technically inferior. 16-bit, 44.1 kHz PCM can more closely approximate the original source signal, with greater potential dynamic range (upwards of 110 dB with the right psychoacoustic dither), a lower noise floor (only the noise of dither itself, when adequately shaped into the higher frequencies, is not audible and does not yield audible coloration in most circumstances, as well as noise introduced during A/D conversion which may actually reduce quantization distortion), greater apparent resolution (a 180 gram record may have 11 to 12 apparent bits of resolution) and less overall frequency coloration, particularly in the midbass. That's not even getting into the various structural imperfections, degradation by use and the potential for dust and dirt to produce audible anomalies that plague vinyl. A vinyl record may euphonically sound superior, but isn't technically superior once you factor all the truly meaningful qualities (analogness not being one of them).

One edge that vinyl does have is that it can maintain frequencies beyond 20 kHz, but most adults can't discern pure tones beyond 18-19 kHz, even at quite high listening levels. PCM at 44.1 kHz with an approximate Nyquist cutoff at ~22 kHz is sufficient in terms of being able to store audible high frequency content. Any sampling rate above 44.1 khz (96 kHz, 192 kHz) is well beyond sufficient.

In real-world use, vinyl's pros are purely euphonic and emotional. Audiophiles tend to back vinyl primarily because of the myth perpetuated within audiophile circles that "digital is evil because sound is analog" without even taking into account how poor a medium the vinyl record actually is, at least compared to analog tape. They simply equate "analog" with "good" and assume that any technical factors impeding upon the authenticity to the original source are negligible and even entirely dismissible.

As for me, I don't call myself an audiophile. I'm an engineer and a numbers man, and the number just don't add up in vinyl's favor. That's not to say that I don't appreciate vinyl for what it is, and that I don't like my own fairly small collection, but the myth that vinyl is better than plain-Jane Redbook CD audio is just that: a myth :)
 
Here's what I think...
We all get USB keys that fold up and fit into a wallet, and you take that key to the game or video store and they load the file on the key. You pay, take it home and watch/play the game. How difficult could this really be?

As for watching movies, no, not everyone has an HTPC, but why can't TV's have a USB port in the side (like Samsung) where you could directly watch the movie? How hard could this possibly be? I do it from my $100 Pioneer DVD player. I think it's the best way to watch movies. Now granted the Pioneer only read AVI files, but hey, for 90% of my viewing, that's good enough.

So, yes, I think DVDs are on the way out.
 
phide said:
Not if the recording medium itself is technically inferior. 16-bit, 44.1 kHz PCM can more closely approximate the original source signal, with greater potential dynamic range (upwards of 110 dB with the right psychoacoustic dither), a lower noise floor (only the noise of dither itself, when adequately shaped into the higher frequencies, is not audible and does not yield audible coloration in most circumstances, as well as noise introduced during A/D conversion which may actually reduce quantization distortion), greater apparent resolution (a 180 gram record may have 11 to 12 apparent bits of resolution) and less overall frequency coloration, particularly in the midbass. That's not even getting into the various structural imperfections, degradation by use and the potential for dust and dirt to produce audible anomalies that plague vinyl. A vinyl record may euphonically sound superior, but isn't technically superior once you factor all the truly meaningful qualities (analogness not being one of them).

One edge that vinyl does have is that it can maintain frequencies beyond 20 kHz, but most adults can't discern pure tones beyond 18-19 kHz, even at quite high listening levels. PCM at 44.1 kHz with an approximate Nyquist cutoff at ~22 kHz is sufficient in terms of being able to store audible high frequency content. Any sampling rate above 44.1 khz (96 kHz, 192 kHz) is well beyond sufficient.

In real-world use, vinyl's pros are purely euphonic and emotional. Audiophiles tend to back vinyl primarily because of the myth perpetuated within audiophile circles that "digital is evil because sound is analog" without even taking into account how poor a medium the vinyl record actually is, at least compared to analog tape. They simply equate "analog" with "good" and assume that any technical factors impeding upon the authenticity to the original source are negligible and even entirely dismissible.

As for me, I don't call myself an audiophile. I'm an engineer and a numbers man, and the number just don't add up in vinyl's favor. That's not to say that I don't appreciate vinyl for what it is, and that I don't like my own fairly small collection, but the myth that vinyl is better than plain-Jane Redbook CD audio is just that: a myth :)
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Showoff :p

Actually, I understood most of you what you wrote (from one engineer to another). Nyquist brings back some fond memories from my college days. :eek:
 
Menelmarar said:
Like the way government has "fixed" social security, regulated the financial market, regulated the housing market, etc.?

Government will decide 1.5mbps is good enough for anyone, and drive up the deficit further trying to deliver some crap ass service into every hole and cranny of the nation whether the inhabitants are ready and desiring it or not and offset the cost via more taxes.

No, I think we'd definitely be better off wit private industry competing with either other for subscribers, business. Private choice is good. Most areas have at least 3 choices for broadband, cable (comcast/cox/roadrunner), DSL (att/verizon/etc), or satellite (whoever, not familiar with the ISPs).
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It's ironic that you chose to cite financial markets and housing markets as counter examples to government regulation, when deregulation is exactly what caused them to implode so violently over the last 3 years.

What's needed is a federal mandate to have broadband speed minimums up to certain standards. If we continue to leave it up to private industry they're going to keep on doing business as usual and keep speeds low and prices high.
 
Nokia said:
+1

until they get the caps and speed some where near our neighbors in Europe and Japan streaming will never go mainstream. Just to think we are the inventors of internet.:rolleyes: and I can even get damn high speed here in north texas:rolleyes:
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I think it our short sitedness for broadband/internet that screwed us. I read an article awhile ago that stated that in Japan they we implementing fiber for the future uses of the internet vesus laying cable lines
 
I do think that in the case of PCs, especially portables, that DVDs are on the way out. SD Card slots are now standard in many notebooks. I can see Apple, a company that also distributes their own software, to start offering SD Cards as an alternative to DVD in the next few years. Macbook Pros all have SD Card slots and their upcoming desktops are rumored to also have built-in SD Card slots. I will not be surprised if they start to phase out DVD distribution at some point, in the same way that they stopped distributing on floppies and started releasing on CDs, then on DVD.

If they start doing this then the rest of the industry will be sure to follow; SD Cards are cheap, tiny (saves on shipping costs), have massive storage capacity, and are rewritable. USB keys and SD cards have already replaced DVD for writable storage, its only a matter of time before mass distribution of software is either SD card or pure digital. Pure digital has already mostly happened anyway, the only things I buy on DVD are non-Linux operating systems and Final Cut Studio, everything else from utilities to games are things I buy online and download copies of.
 
One point I forgot to make is that only having SD cards slots are hugely positive for notebooks. Replacing DVD drives completely with SD card slots reduces the physical size, weight, and power consumption of a notebook. A tiny slot with little metal contacts versus a big physical device with moving parts, to me its no contest which one I'd prefer having in a laptop. Can't wait until DVD drives go the way of the floppy.
 
DrVal said:
I think the CEO of Netflix would know better than anybody else.

I don't even have cable TV anymore, I watch everything through my PS3 with PlayOn. Hulu, Netflix, etc etc have almost everything I want to watch. Now if they could just get The Big Bang Theory full episodes on CBS or Hulu... And while you're at it, pop all the episodes of StarTrek TNG, DS9 and Voyager on there too.
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No, he really wouldnt, he just wants us to think that so we all go to netflix and use their product.

the CEO seems to have little clue about broadband in north america.
 
Cerulean said:
CDs > DVDs when burning 700MB or less.
Anything more than 700MB goes on a DVD.
Bluray is too expensive and nobody has a bluray burner or drive.
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Not really, i even burn sub 700mb files to DVD cause DVD have faster read speeds :)
 
Serpico said:
If they start doing this then the rest of the industry will be sure to follow; SD Cards are cheap, tiny (saves on shipping costs), have massive storage capacity, and are rewritable.
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Your argument makes no sense- It costs pretty much the same to ship a DVD as it does a flash card, DVD is WAY cheaper than flash memory.

You state "massive storage" but that massive storage has a cost- $30 for a 16gig flash card vs 80 cents for the same 16gig in DVD media format.

Even a 4gb flash card is $10, vs 20 cents for a DVD of the same capacity.

Lots of PC have SD slots because people have lots of SD media- Cameras, video recorders, phones, MP3 players, etc. Flash memory fits another slot in the portable data scheme, I doubt it will ever replace DVD
 
gdonovan - Obviously it wouldn't replace DVD now, but price per amount of storage isn't a static thing. People were saying this about floppies over ten years ago, followed by DVDs, and in both cases there was a move forward. I will be surprised if DVD holds the same position it does now in ten years. As I said, replacing DVD with SD cards has too many positives for notebook manufacturers, size, weight, battery life, not to mention superior rewritable media. And if SD cards do not replace DVD for software distribution then digital downloads most certainly will.
 
Azhar said:
8-track and Vinyl is dead. Cassette tapes - maybe. Still quite a few audio books that uses cassette tapes.

:-P
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seriously you started it with this and i got my baby powder on my hands and your cheeks in range.

vynil is considered a vintage/legacy/collectible/uber format that im fairly certain contains every new major release... you can get anything on vinyl if you want it, brand new. and many people still do. everything else will come and go, but there will always be a niche market for good old records, thats a fact. it was the first and will be there with the last technology for audio recording, its undeniable. it is considered around the world, still, as the #1 recognized format.

now if you meant 'dead' as in national retailers dont carry them, and lables dont sell them exclusively.. then yeah of course. forget what i said.
 
gdonovan said:
Your argument makes no sense- It costs pretty much the same to ship a DVD as it does a flash card, DVD is WAY cheaper than flash memory.

You state "massive storage" but that massive storage has a cost- $30 for a 16gig flash card vs 80 cents for the same 16gig in DVD media format.

Even a 4gb flash card is $10, vs 20 cents for a DVD of the same capacity.

Lots of PC have SD slots because people have lots of SD media- Cameras, video recorders, phones, MP3 players, etc. Flash memory fits another slot in the portable data scheme, I doubt it will ever replace DVD
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all good up to the last part. dvd's are a fairly terrible way to store things in the grand scheme of it all. and they hold none of the og charm that records do, so you can safely believe that dvd's will soon go away like vhs has. bluray should be able to easily kill them, but sony is too money hungry to let that happen, they would rather charge the shit out of the few people who do buy their crap. eventually though, its inevitable technology will push flash chips into huge capacites at crazy fast speeds for next to no cost. theyre already doing a damn good job, and flash memory is just in its infancy.... actually i think it might be a crystal memory, but same difference really. put a little unbreakable card into your player, watch movie. too easy and foolproof.
 
krupted said:
all good up to the last part. dvd's are a fairly terrible way to store things in the grand scheme of it all. .
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Cost drives everything, DVD isn't going anywhere.

DVD's are dirt cheap to make and has plenty of storage room for most uses.
 
I think DVDs as a storage medium will be around for a long time to come.

DVDs as an entertainment medium, not so sure.

As others have said, a lot depends on the ISPs and content providers. High quality, stable broadband simply isn't widespread enough to provide a quality streaming experience for enough people to make it competitive. And won't be for a long time to come based on how things are going now.
 
krupted said:
seriously you started it with this and i got my baby powder on my hands and your cheeks in range.

vynil is considered a vintage/legacy/collectible/uber format that im fairly certain contains every new major release... you can get anything on vinyl if you want it, brand new. and many people still do. everything else will come and go, but there will always be a niche market for good old records, thats a fact. it was the first and will be there with the last technology for audio recording, its undeniable. it is considered around the world, still, as the #1 recognized format.

now if you meant 'dead' as in national retailers dont carry them, and lables dont sell them exclusively.. then yeah of course. forget what i said.
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Not so fast on the last part, even the Best Buy and Barnes & Noble stores in my area carry vinyl these days.
 
I don't think it'll happen in the near future, but the rise of HD and digital distribution will definitely chip away at DVDs like what happened to CDs before.
 
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