Nvidia and ATI should be worried?

vengence said:
So you think the cloud will not need GPUs?
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Nope. Everything is rendered on the server and streamed down. As long as you have a decent connection it doesn't matter what your playing it on. ISP dl caps will be the biggest problem for cloud gaming I think.
 
so piracy, lack of good games, the economy, or dubya not being in office has nothing to do with the quagmire that AMD and nVidia are in.

Quite simply, the software engineers are to blame.

They are not writing new games that require new cards.

WHAT WHAT WHAT YOU SAY??? NOT THE SOFTWARE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

Yes... the software people.

If you were around when GLQuake came out, you went out immediately and bought a monster card. No questions asked - it was just that cool. I pity you young-ens who weren't around for that changing of the guard.

So now we've been rehashing the same graphics engines since oh... i dunno - i'll just throw crysis in as an example.

After that game out, I got my 8800GTX and have not needed to upgrade since.

Yes, I spent 300 dollars on it. Yes, that is way more than I am comfortable with, but I saw what was happening, so my purchase was a bet that my card would hang in there for quite a while. Actually, its paid off in spades. I still play everything - maybe not at 4000x3000 resolution on a 42 inch screen like the owners of this website, but its just fine and dandy for 1920x1080.

And I can count on my card to deal with any new games that come out.

Microsoft tried to do their part by introducing DX11 to pretty much trick people into getting new cards - obviously didn't work too well on me... I don't care that much about graphics - its all about the gameplay baby.

Yes, you've had your mind blown. Stop blaming anyone but software devs. Blame the people who threw a wrench in John Carmack's work because that is the man who has made the really cool strides and pushed the gaming industry to be where we are today. Without him, our 3d games... might not even exist (yes, this is a stretch and I know it)

I mean, how would you feel if you MADE the 3d game world, then all of a sudden, "Sorry guy who pioneered everything... we're gonna start doing everything on Direct X because its a lot easier."

Now look whats coming back to bite them in the arse.

Also, if you have something you want me to read, I suggest you send me a PM... I won't look at this thread again. I just saw a question so obvious I had to throw the off the wall answer in because I knew so few would actually know the RIGHT answer.
 
dkev said:
Nope. Everything is rendered on the server and streamed down. As long as you have a decent connection it doesn't matter what your playing it on. ISP dl caps will be the biggest problem for cloud gaming I think.
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I thought I was being clear, let me type in caps and see if that helps. HOW DOES THE CLOUD RENDER IT IF IT DOES NOT HAVE GPUS?
 
I stopped playing on my PC cause many of the new games are SHIT... F.E.A.R 2 for example. why ooo why does the enemy glow blue when in slow mo
 
I hope not, seeing as how those won't run games on the 30" monitors I plan to buy. I mean If they stopped pushing out new cards it would make me one sadass gamer.
 
vengence said:
I thought I was being clear, let me type in caps and see if that helps. HOW DOES THE CLOUD RENDER IT IF IT DOES NOT HAVE GPUS?
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Of course the servers will require gpus genius. That's not the point we were making. The end user isn't required to have a fancy vid card to play next gen games. Just a fast connection.
Oh and the games will play on any OPERATING SYSTEM. So the whole " I don't use linux cause I can't game on it." excuse will be over.
 
dkev said:
Of course the servers will require gpus genius. That's not the point we were making. The end user isn't required to have a fancy vid card to play next gen games. Just a fast connection.
Oh and the games will play on any OPERATING SYSTEM. So the whole " I don't use linux cause I can't game on it." excuse will be over.
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I thought this thread was about why Nvidia or ATI should be worried not where the GPU was located. As long as they are selling GPUs, why the hell do they care who they sell them to? Furthermore, they are making a KILLING on cards that have to have reliablitiy such as quadros so wouldn't this be a good thing for them?
 
vengence said:
I thought this thread was about why Nvidia or ATI should be worried not where the GPU was located. As long as they are selling GPUs, why the hell do they care who they sell them to? Furthermore, they are making a KILLING on cards that have to have reliablitiy such as quadros so wouldn't this be a good thing for them?
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To a point. They won't sell the quantity of high end cards like they are now. OnLive so far has 10 major gaming publishers on board. So if it becomes as popular as say, xbox live, then they can go back to the publishers and say these are the cards we use, so don't make your games to exceed what our cards can do, like the console makers do. The publishers will say ok cause it will be cheaper for them to write the games. I don't know if this will happen or if even cloud gaming catches on. But I can tell you AMD and Nvidia, not to mention MS are pretty concerned about them. If it is as good as they claim it to be (OnLive), it will radically change how we game.
 
Dan_D said:
The main problem with PC gaming right now is its lack of diversity. Many of the titles are nothing more than bad console ports. It used to be that you had racing games, flight simulators, combat flight sims, space-combat games, RTS, turn based strategy games, side scrollers, RPG and FPS games. Now most of what's sold are MMORPG, FPS, or 3rd person action games. The latter of which are usually console ports. The occasional RTS comes out now and again but that's really it. Currently we have one recent fighting game (Street Fighter IV which is excellent) and of course we get Need 4 Speed games but those aren't generally all that good really.

Again I don't see PC gaming really dying despite all the doom and gloom tales and even this dryspell in game releases. Unless your blind you should be able to see that consoles are becoming more PC like all the time. HTPC's are becoming more popular and things are going the way of the digital download. This will happen on the console side eventually as well. Eventually these devices sare going to merge.
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I concur as well. I haven't found a good enough reason to upgrade from my 8800GT......it runs most games at high settings (minus Company of heroes, world in conflict, and the original crysis).
 
OldScotch said:
Aren't both nVidia and ATI making the cards for consoles?

As to PC gaming - I know since WoW has been out I've been purchasing fewer games. Ironically I suppose, Blizzard's stranglehold of what is almost a niche market could be seen as a victim of its own success.

And too know I'm hesitant to buy games under the EA label. It's not a rule, but I've noticed a general downward trend in overall quality of EA games - and unfortunately, it seems like EA has their hands into pretty much everything.

I'm also soured by the "Games for Windows" BS from Microsoft. Halo was almost ready for a huge PC release in 2000 until Microsoft bought Bungie and forced them to make it an xBox exclusive. When it finally was released as the "must have" title for the xBox and PC users were left to dwell on how amazing the game was supposed to be when it was ready for them the year before. To add insult to injury, the PC got nothing but badly done ports years after the xBox releases.I think it was Halo2 being released for the PC, just months before Halo3 was released for the xBox - and it wouldn't even play on XP which was used by the vast majority of gamers at the time.
After that kick in the nuts and salt on open wounds, I'm supposed to believe the Microsoft is truly interested in saving the PC gaming industry? Frak no.
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Agreed, I'm still waiting for halo 3 to be on the pc....though I haven't gotten halo 2.

About EA: Agreed, less and less games are being released by them, and they are lower quality.
 
visionviper said:
Yes, I rather enjoy Battlefield Vietnam.

This is a perfect example though: I am sure many people would not pick out BFV as a fun, enjoyable game worth a purchase so had I not pirated it first I would have never bought it.
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I actually did the same with battlefield vietnam, though It was to try the game out days before it would be released.
 
Why? because pc gaming is becoming a niche market and if none of these two companies do something about it, hardly anyone will see a point in buying their next GPU's because no game takes advantage of it.
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Your kidding right! another one of these threads to predict PC gaming is doomed!

maybe later when i get some time i will read the responses from others...
 
I really don't get these "PC gaming is doomed!" type things. Really? Then why are there so many games on this list? These are PC games that have been released recently, like since April 2009. Why are there 11 million (and counting) active WoW subscribers? If that is a "dying" market in your book, I think your head is on backwards.

Also as for nVidia and ATi, you know they provide the console GPUs right? So even supposing PCs did go away, they still have a market.
 
You can blame both sides if you want, but i personally think MS has no intentions of giving an all out support for PC gamers. Xbox is wheres the money at...

Otherwise I would not still be waiting for Gears of War 2 and Halo 3.

A perfect example where Epic gained popularity through the UT series, us PC gamers made them successful and they turn their back on us. Same goes to halo, although yes it was originally intended for the MAC but still...
 
I've bee sitting here trying to figure out something significant to add to this thread and all I can think of is.

KEYBOARD AND MOUSE ARE BETTER!!!!

That is why I will continue to play on a PC. that and I like fiddling with the hardware.
 
lol @ this thread. MMORPG's, ftw.

I do agree with the next gen cards though. Not many games really utilize the current top-end cards except for Crysis. :p
 
zero2dash said:
Lots of talk about piracy.

You 'piracy' theorists don't think piracy is possible on consoles? :p
It's a two way street. It *used* to be that piracy was less prevalent on consoles, but not anymore. Not when some consoles can be softmodded (PSP, Wii), some have loader carts (DS), and chips exist for others (360).

The lone force fighting against piracy on consoles is Xbox Live and there's reportedly ways around that (in addition to leaving the thing unplugged which is the most basic method).

If piracy hurts sales so much, then how come The Sims 3 sold 1.4 million units at launch, despite being downloaded over 180,000 times in 4 days? Hell, EA even classified it as a "demo program" and said they initiated the leak in the first place.

Here's another thing. How is piracy so rampant when a good portion of the world still doesn't have broadband? Are people really dumb enough to attempt to DL an iso on a 56k?
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As far as I know all that you say it is true. Except for one thing:
How is piracy so rampant when a good portion of the world still doesn't have broadband? Are people really dumb enough to attempt to DL an iso on a 56k

I wouldn't call them dumb but oh yes, desperate.
 
Sycraft said:
I really don't get these "PC gaming is doomed!" type things. Really? Then why are there so many games on this list? These are PC games that have been released recently, like since April 2009. Why are there 11 million (and counting) active WoW subscribers? If that is a "dying" market in your book, I think your head is on backwards.

Also as for nVidia and ATi, you know they provide the console GPUs right? So even supposing PCs did go away, they still have a market.
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Why don't you show that WoW mentallity to Michael Dell. Sales might be awesome today but in 10 years. I think there won't even be a PC. I think that's the reason why Microsoft wants to kill gaming on a PC on the first place. They want to completely change the concept of Desktop PC to something more likable.
 
Sycraft said:
I really don't get these "PC gaming is doomed!" type things. Really? Then why are there so many games on this list? These are PC games that have been released recently, like since April 2009. Why are there 11 million (and counting) active WoW subscribers? If that is a "dying" market in your book, I think your head is on backwards.

Also as for nVidia and ATi, you know they provide the console GPUs right? So even supposing PCs did go away, they still have a market.
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Ohh, you mean Stalin Versus Martians...yeah sure, right!!!
 
While I don't think PC gaming will completely die, I definitely see its continued decline to some degree.

I'd like to first agree with a lot of what j66chevell and Diseaseboy said earlier as I think a lot of that speaks to why the older generation of gamers....those of us who, back in the day, used to carry around Wolfenstein 3D on 3-1/4" floppies to install at whatever computer we used during the day.....are migrating towards consoles over computers for a significant part of our gaming.

With that said, I think the advent of widescreen HDTV has also had a big factor in PC gaming decline and the rise of consoles. Sitting on the couch with a beer playing a game on a 60" HDTV with 5.1 DD sound that looks almost as good visually and sounds 10x better than playing on your 24" monitor at a desk with decent 5.1 computer speakers is very attractive to a lot of the gaming population. Throw in the instant turn on and play versus vid driver updates/patches/conflicts/etc. and it becomes even easier to settle for the loss of eye candy in the consoles versus the PCs.

The consoles are just too close visually to even the most current computer and game....at least close enough that a lot of gamers seem to be willing to sacrifice for my above reason. It's not like the difference between computers and the PS2 3 years into the PS2 lifecycle.

So I agree with others that for a lot of reasons (which would be a whole 'nother discussion) we're headed for a convergance of the two.....in the end both PC gamers and console gamers will play on the same platform.
 
I'll stick with my PC for user made content, better controls, and programs like ventrilo.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Your kidding right! another one of these threads to predict PC gaming is doomed!

maybe later when i get some time i will read the responses from others...
Click to expand...

Why has nearly everyone in this thread talking about pc gaming dying? The OP said absolutely nothing about PC gaming being dead, he said it is becoming a niche market, and it is; because of the explosive growth of consoles and gaming in general PC gaming is a niche relative to the console market.

I predict from now on, we'll only see major graphical leaps in PC gaming when a new console is released, generally speaking of course. From then we'll receive the same games as the console, maybe prettied up a LITTLE but not much. Pisses me off, but all we can hope for is a pc gaming renaissance sometime in the near future.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Why? because pc gaming is becoming a niche market and if none of these two companies do something about it, hardly anyone will see a point in buying their next GPU's because no game takes advantage of it.

Look at the current crop of pc games mostly console ports. a 9800gtx is still good enough to play those at near max settings and how old is that card?

im fed up of developers pissing about with pc users and im fed up some of you lot who practically ruined what crysis was trying to do for us pc gamers and that is to PUSH the graphical technology for pc's like how others have done before them. instead people complained that their 2 year old pc's cant run it and pirate the shit out of it. now NO devs have the balls to fully test our rigs with cutting edge graphics and technology.

i have a 260gtx and it hardly breaks a sweat. i should of just bought a 9800gtx. that would have been good enough for TODAYS games for fucksakes.

rant over.
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So THAT'S why they're racing to get DX11 cards out AND designing those cards to be ridiculously powerful...

Oh wait, counterpoint. Nvm.

We're not going to get into the rest of it. There's already 8 pages of mostly people saying WTF.
 
Steam is the answer to all this crap. No piracy, no bull crap, and you save cash thanks to elimanted retail costs (box, manuals, etc).
 
Sycraft said:
I really don't get these "PC gaming is doomed!" type things. Really? Then why are there so many games on this list? These are PC games that have been released recently, like since April 2009. Why are there 11 million (and counting) active WoW subscribers? If that is a "dying" market in your book, I think your head is on backwards.

Also as for nVidia and ATi, you know they provide the console GPUs right? So even supposing PCs did go away, they still have a market.
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dont forget valve.

Enduring_Warrior said:
Why don't you show that WoW mentallity to Michael Dell. Sales might be awesome today but in 10 years. I think there won't even be a PC. I think that's the reason why Microsoft wants to kill gaming on a PC on the first place. They want to completely change the concept of Desktop PC to something more likable.
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See the problem most people dont see, is console are becoming more and more a PC, they are console in the definition of what a console is, but they arent just a machine you can play games on, they are becoming HTPC's with every release, to me console are dieing because they are becoming the PC we own today and are just starting to be able to do what out PC's have done for the last 15 years.
 
AmongTheChosenX said:
Steam is the answer to all this crap. No piracy, no bull crap, and you save cash thanks to elimanted retail costs (box, manuals, etc).
Click to expand...

OMG another steam fanboy!...dammit..me too.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/169237/amd_tops_quarterly_gpu_growth_still_third_place_overall.html

JPR expects the graphics market to continue its shipment gains throughout Q3 and Q4, spurred by the launch of Microsoft's Windows 7 and Apple's Snow Leopard as well as the expected price war between new, 40mm-chipset ATI and Nvidia cards.
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I have a 8800GTS 512MB that I bought early 2008 and I don't see a reason to upgrade. There just isn't any point. Only game I've tried to play but couldn't play (on decent settings) was Crysis and I'm not buying a video card for one game.
 
Blizzard is pretty much the premier PC developer. And their games are hardly pushing the graphical edge.

Crysis has shown us that near realism is possible. Now, until cards that can portray that realism consistently (60 fps) become the norm, I dont see us making any big leaps in pc gaming for a while.

Give it 5 years, imo.
 
vengence said:
I'm sorry, but L4D was fun for a week and that was it. I havn't touched that game in months. Why? Because it's the same levels and your forced to play them in an insanely linear fashion.


Warhammer 40K Dawn of War II - Good luck getting AA at 2560x1600 with a single GPU
Good luck with GTAIV

Stalker: Clear Sky.... yeah that's not demanding at all
Cryostatis, wouldn't recommend it but it is demanding
Also, don't forget games like Age of Conan.
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+1 L4D was epic fun at the start later it become boring so fast! and yes the multiplayer
sucks hard,other then that i agree it was maybe one of the best games in last few years.

About new games,yes no good games lately and i won't even talk about demanding ones.
So i will agree with others that nvidia and ati should be worried,but i as a gamer (IQ whore)
I'm worried about the lack of demanding games and the need to buy better GPUs.
Yes its a sickness and ill get GT 300 when they are out no matter if there is no demanding games at that moment.One thing is sure i would be alot more satisfied
if GT 300/DX11 cards bring new games,which i could conquer with my new GPUs :D

Far cry 2

Crysis/Warhead

Stalker CS

Age of Conan

Arma 2

GTA4

What to play after you finish this list ? feel free to add more ;)


Wazooty said:
Blizzard is pretty much the premier PC developer. And their games are hardly pushing the graphical edge.

Crysis has shown us that near realism is possible. Now, until cards that can portray that realism consistently (60 fps) become the norm, I dont see us making any big leaps in pc gaming for a while.

Give it 5 years, imo.
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5 years is to much dude maybe 2?
 
Ehren8879 said:
I'm glad hardware has surpassed software. There's nothing more disssapointing than having to play a new game on settings so low that it looks worse than last generation games on high.
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But not entirely good, because many graphic cards weren't completely maxed and they had to be replaced for new software compatability, like as a good example, the X1950XTX, it had a great performance that allowed the Ruby's Assassin Demo to ran like a champ, but there's any game that looks like that and is playable? No, and the X1950XTX is already obsolete. Same with CPU's, there's no consumer software that can take a huge advantage of the Core 2 Quad CPU's, and now we have Core i7 and the Core 2 Quad will be obsolete soon without being maxed out, software development is far behind the hardware, and by the time that its catching up, it can barely take advantage of 3 year old hardware which is already on the dumpster.
 
psyside said:
+1 L4D was epic fun at the start later it become boring so fast! and yes the multiplayer
sucks hard,other then that i agree it was maybe one of the best games in last few years.
Click to expand...

I bought Left 4 Dead 3 or 4 months ago and it was fun for about a week. Just no content, but since they opened user created content it's about 50 times more fun. Im playing through the semi-famous Death Aboard campaign right now. Just google left 4dead downloads.
 
The problem of graphics cards over the 2-3 years being able to run any game isn't really a problem at all for me. It makes PC gaming more accessible, and it gives you less reason to spend lots of money to upgrade (though, let's be honest, many people upgrade simply for the sake of upgrading). In fact, I think minimum graphics requirements could stand to go down even more (I'll allude to that later).

The big issue I think with PC gaming is the stunning lack of variety. FPS (Too. Many. Fucking. First. Person. Shooters.), RTS, and MMO are basically what make up 90% of PC games. Which is depressing as all hell. With consoles you have fighting games, sports games, racing games, action games, on top of FPS and MMO. Alot of the games I'm interested in right now will never have a PC port (BlazBlue being the #1 example, goddamn I wish I had a 360 or PS3 right now). However, Capcom has been really good with PC ports that are addressing this problem. Street Fighter IV, Devil May Cry 4, and the upcoming Resident Evil 5 are a much needed breath of fresh air amidst the 20 new first person shooters that get crammed down everybody's throats every year.

Piracy. Okay, I'm seeing a bunch of people saying "People pirate games so they can try them out before buying them!"

....really? Do you seriously swallow that crap?

I don't believe piracy is killing PC gaming persay (it sure as hell isn't helping, but that goes without saying), but I can tell that anyone who pirates games do so because of ONE reason: "ZOMG! FREE GAMES!" Obviously, those cheapskates who think all software should be free would never buy PC games to begin with, so they don't represent lost sales IMO. I do agree that free demos can do alot to help with this. I still have some ancient demos of Unreal Tournament 2003 and 2004 that I play every now and then. With this, the very, VERY few people who actually do 'try before they buy' will have a legitimate means of doing so. As for all the other pirates? Fuck them, they'd never spend the money anyway. So rather than kitting up your games with atrocious DRM schemes, just make it so you need a legitimate install key and registration to play online or download updates. It shouldn't be terribly difficult to keep a database of legit keys and mark off which ones have already been registered (well, I think it should be, I'm not a sysadmin so I can't say for certain).

Geh, I'm just repeating what's already been said, better add something original to make this post worthwhile...

First, a message to game devs (like they'll pay attention to some random post on a message board, I may as well be talking to myself):

Seriously, there are more than 3 genres of PC games. Can we give FPSes and MMOs just a small break and try something new? I'd love to see more (preferably PC original) fighting games, 3rd person action games, or consolish RPGs for the PC. Microsoft and Logitech have already provided us with excellent controllers, so its not like we're chained to the keyboard and mouse anymore. Sports games might be hard because they require licensing, but that just gives you more freedom to come up with something completely original (anyone remember Mutant League Football? Anyone remember how fun that was?). At the very least, follow Capcom's example.

If online distribution scares you that much, okay. But can we please get rid of the frigging optical discs? They're a slow and outdated technology that really should be taking a backseat to flash memory (memory cards or USB sticks). The vast majority of pre-built OEM machines already come with card readers, so scarcity isn't an issue. Since flash memory has MUCH lower access times compared to optical discs, you have a better chance of replicating that 'pop in and play' feeling that consoles have (while still retaining the option to install to disc, obviously). They're already used for popular consumer electronics like digital cameras and camcorders and music players, so its not like the laymen don't already know how to use them. As far as enthusiasts, how many of us already install our OSes from a memory card or USB stick as opposed to directly from the optical disc?

I respect Microsoft and DirectX, I really do. I mean, I've only ever used Windows and so far I've seen no reason to switch to anything else. But, I'm thinking, maybe you might want to consider broadening your audience? OpenGL is there, and its universal (along with a variety of other universal open standards like OpenAL, OpenCL, and FLAC or Ogg for your 3D effects, physics and audio compression). I know Linux fans are hungry for high-end commercial games to run native on their OS, so at least TRY to give it to them. They may be small, but its more people potentially buying games. Hell, the OS X crowd would be a shoe-in, since they're willing to spend so much on a personal computer they certainly have the money to buy games.

I guess the last thing I have to say would go to the PC OEMs...

One of the things that seriously hurts PC games is Intel graphics. They're frigging everywhere, Intel owns half (well, something like 49% at least) of the graphics market because of it, and they ALL SUCK S**T. One thing that frustrates laymen is when they pop a game into their Dell or HP machine and the game runs like ass (because of, surprise surprise, the shitty Intel graphics chip), let alone the fact that the graphics aren't as pretty as what's shown on the screenshots on the back of the box.

Office machines I understand, obviously you don't need anything better than Intel to type up documents and check email. But can you please try and raise the base for everything else? It doesn't have to be anything high-end. The Geforce 9400M or Radeon HD3200 chipsets would be great, at least it'd give game devs a higher (and actually useable) baseline to work with. Even people who DON'T play games on their store bought machine will benefit. Better integrated graphics means more eye candy for the OS and more hardware acceleration for popular software.
 
King of Heroes said:
Piracy. Okay, I'm seeing a bunch of people saying "People pirate games so they can try them out before buying them!"

....really? Do you seriously swallow that crap?

I don't believe piracy is killing PC gaming persay.
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Piracy killed PC gaming as we knew it (exclusive PC games instead of console ports), but not as the act itself of "stealing" but the impression it has given companies that develope crappy games. They think they're loosing sales which infact they weren't getting those sales in first place but once they see 200.000 downloads of one of their games in the first week (sims3 was going to be bought by a lot of dadys for his litle kids with or without big piracy downloads, so it doesn't count)... they change for the console market.
 
piscian18 said:
I bought Left 4 Dead 3 or 4 months ago and it was fun for about a week. Just no content, but since they opened user created content it's about 50 times more fun. Im playing through the semi-famous Death Aboard campaign right now. Just google left 4dead downloads.
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hey dude can you give me link to those maps/mods ? thanks!
 
there will always be new console, but then again, console cycle will always be longer, and in the meantime graphic technology keeps improving, that's where PC fills in, well unless the economy has gone awfully worse than it is now (hopefully not), i don't see the death of PC gaming, may be a bit bruised on the side, is all.
 
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