It’s Time to Legalize Personal-Use DVD Copying

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It’s time to legalize personal-use DVD copying. Personally. I don’t care what the Digital Millennium Copyright Act says, I think we should have the right to make a copy of any movie we legally purchased as long as it is for personal use.

A federal judge here Thursday or soon thereafter is likely to conclude RealNetworks’ DVD-copying software is unlawful, and therefore should be permanently barred from distribution. That’s the correct interpretation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Yet we think it’s offensive that the 1998 act produces the absurd result that consumers are considered hackers and copyright scofflaws just for duplicating DVDs for personal use.
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well, no matter what the verdict is, I'm willing to bet that her decision will not stop anyone who wants to back their movies up.
 
It's like the world is out of touch with reality.
If I bought the damn thing I can make a copy on my HTPC and watch it whenever.
If that's a crime then come and look for you miserable SOBS.
Reusing my DVD till it's scratched and having to re-buy it doesn't seem like a better option to me (if you have kids you all know what I'm talking about).
I'm not sure who really makes all the big technology based desicions/laws but I bet they wouldn't know their asses from their elbows.
 
I'm going to back up my DVDs regardless of whether it's legal or not. I'm going to encode my DVD rips for iPhone use regardless of whether it's legal or not. I'm going to download Blu-ray rips for Blu-rays I own regardless of whether it's legal or not.

Although I live in the U.S., the DMCA simply does not apply to me. I've merely decided that it doesn't apply to me. It sounds arrogant, sure, but it's also the reality.
 
Steve said:
Personally. I don’t care what the Digital Millennium Copyright Act says, I think we should have the right to make a copy of any movie we legally purchased as long as it is for personal use.
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QFT - you f*cking A right....if i bought it i can damn well do as i please with it and i dont need any greedy money hungry lawyer or movie star telling me that im infringing on their pay because last i checked the millions they make for a few moths of work is a whole hell of alot more than i will ever make
 
phide said:
I'm going to back up my DVDs regardless of whether it's legal or not. I'm going to encode my DVD rips for iPhone use regardless of whether it's legal or not. I'm going to download Blu-ray rips for Blu-rays I own regardless of whether it's legal or not.

Although I live in the U.S., the DMCA simply does not apply to me. I've merely decided that it doesn't apply to me. It sounds arrogant, sure, but it's also the reality.
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legalization through social disobedience :)
 
I bet people who copy DVD's are descendants of bootleggers from the prohibition era. The degradation of morals in the United States today is horrible!!!
 
I have ALWAYS supported making your own backups of media, regardless of whether or not its a movie, a program, or just plain a text document.

the fact of the matter is, the physical media is NOT indestructable. it does get scratched in NORMAL use (who in the hell handles their disks with white gloves, no relative motion between the disk and the tray (which brings up the point, how are we supposed to insert the disk if we cant move it?), not to mention slot loading drives will destroy a disk in a heartbeat if it chooses to.

I say modify the DMCA to allow PERSONAL backup copies (as many as needed).

I do NOT condone piracy (although, while dating myself, I will admit to 'creatively aquiring' software back in the apple II days). I do pay for the products I use.

Also, what am I supposed to do, if my disk becomes unreadable in the future, and I cannot find a replacement to purchase (as much as I would hate to do that). Will the original publisher of the product be able to provide me with a suitable replacement product?? you bet your arse they wont. and *IF* they could(would), it wouldnt be free, they will charge a replacement fee. All of this can be avoided by allowing us to make our OWN backup copies.

hell, I remember back in the day of the Apple II, playing wizardry.. the game was so disk based, it would wear out the floppy in short order. At least, the game would make you a backup copy to use (once the game was booted, you could change the disk out and save the original).
 
Lamont Cranston said:
i dont need any greedy money hungry lawyer or movie star telling me that im infringing on their pay because last i checked the millions they make for a few moths of work is a whole hell of alot more than i will ever make
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That's a bad way of thinking about it. I don't care if an A-level actor makes a mere $500 a day or $500 million a shoot, so what they make is totally irrelevant to me (and should be to you as well). If they can swing that kind of income, good for them!

Your decisions should be based on what's morally right (and hopefully legal) rather than what's fair. That means you make choices that don't deprive anyone of any particular satisfaction (usually income) to do the things you wish to do. That's the basic concept of Fair Use as it relates to license ownership: you can archive and utilize the content in a variety of forms (such as on an HTPC, an iPod, etc.) so long as you don't re-distribute content illegally or use the content for public exhibition.

dr.stevil said:
legalization through social disobedience :)
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That's basically it.
 
OK, maybe I am a bit confused, but how did Kaleidescape get away with doing basically the same thing and Real [seemingly] can't? Or is there more to both than meets the eye? (wasn't intended to sound Transformerish LOL)
 
If it is illegal, then it is illegal.

Since it is illegal, then it will be considered as piracy and no matter how strong is your voice against piracy, you will stil be considered as a pirate for copying the DVD that you own.

Since you are considered as a pirate anyway, why should you stop at copying the DVDs that you own? You are already a pirate for copying the DVDs that you own, just like the pirates who download illegal stuff from the internet. :p
 
DudeItsMe said:
I bet people who copy DVD's are descendants of bootleggers from the prohibition era. The degradation of morals in the United States today is horrible!!!
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im not sure if you are joking or not, but im in a mood so im going to take this opportunity to step up on a rant...

We are all a victim of jealousy/envy/being conned because if you look at the way the native americans lived and some even other tribes around the world what we do is plain retarded.

We only HAVE to eat, sleep, drink and go to the bathroom to live......which technically doesnt cost a damn thing. Homes, cars, jobs, shit like that is just a bs way for some people to make money and convince others that what they are doing is inferior and doing it some other way is better and will make your life better.

Sort of like this whole teen pregnancy bit, you see bristol palin on the news alot and all the fucking press telling her how bad of a person she is for having sex and getting pregnant. Well i say FUCK the press, and news, and all those other bastards out there who say teen pregnancy is a bad thing...its a bad thing because we have been brought up to believe that we have to go to school, go to college, work our asses off like maniacs just to be a decent person anymore. People forget that hey once our bodies are ready to reproduce - nature takes over....there is a reason for that.....people are supposed to have kids at that age....people didnt used to live into even their 50's or 60's..... hell the older you are the more complications you are likely to have with your own health not to mention that unborn kid.....

The world makes me almost sick anymore with the whole you have to do this and that and the other to be someone or something.....movie stars especially.....i could give two shits how much money they have and what their opinion on politics are.....fact of the matter is they should kiss my and other consumers' feet because if it werent for us buying their movies and all that then they wouldnt have jack squat....

*steps off soap box*

I digress
 
Lets hope it is appealed and given a sensible hearing.
If it fails, second hand only for me.
I dont want to put any more money in their pockets, serves them right.
 
bonsai said:
The same exact thing you do with everything else you own that breaks down after normal usage. You buy a new one, or you don't buy a new one.
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When you buy a lawnmower, you aren't purchasing a license to use that lawnmower: you are buying the actual item. You own every component of that lawnmower.

When you buy a DVD, you're purchasing A) a license to use the copyrighted content on the disk and B) the disk itself. You don't own the film itself, but you do own the DVD. You own a license to screen that film to a small audience. Prior to the DMCA, you also had the right to utilize the DVD/film in other ways (creating archival copies, for instance) under what's referred to as Fair Use.

So, when you smash your DVD in half, what would be the purpose of purchasing both A) an additional license and B) an additional DVD, when all you require is the DVD? You already own the license to screen the film to a small audience. For what reason would you need two licenses to do that? You can't re-sell the license alone or transfer it to another party.

There's a reason publishers and manufacturers offer disc replacement services.
 
Morality is relative, only legallity could tell whether it is right or wrong. Even if it is immoral for you, it could be ok for others. For example, the Arabs think that it is immoral to drink Alcohol but it is considered normal for the western culture. If you go to the Arabs country, you would still think that there is nothing immoral about drinking alcohol but there, drinking alcohol is still wrong because it is illegal.
 
alg7_munif said:
If it is illegal, then it is illegal.
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Blind and unquestioning adherence to the letter of the law is not something to be admired. Without elements of anarchy providing resistance to the proliferation of oppression, the end result is, inevitably, a very different kind of society than we [Americans] worked so very hard to create in the first place.

alg7_munif said:
Since it is illegal, then it will be considered as piracy
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Considered piracy by whom?

alg7_munif said:
Morality is relative, only legallity could tell whether it is right or wrong.
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This viewpoint is truly terror-inducing. To me, there's nothing quite as frightening as the unquestioning obedience to one's government and its often illogical policies.
 
phide said:
When you buy a lawnmower, you aren't purchasing a license to use that lawnmower: you are buying the actual item. You own every component of that lawnmower.

When you buy a DVD, you're purchasing A) a license to use the copyrighted content on the disk and B) the disk itself. You don't own the film itself, but you do own the DVD. You own a license to screen that film to a small audience. Prior to the DMCA, you also had the right to utilize the DVD/film in other ways (creating archival copies, for instance) under what's referred to as Fair Use.

So, when you smash your DVD in half, what would be the purpose of purchasing both A) an additional license and B) an additional DVD, when all you require is the DVD? You already own the license to screen the film to a small audience. For what reason would you need two licenses to do that? You can't re-sell the license alone or transfer it to another party.

There's a reason publishers and manufacturers offer disc replacement services.
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So just because you're paying $20 for a personal license you believe that entitles you to unlimited, irrevocable, and perpetual use of that license?

If I buy a $20 t-shirt I don't expect to be able to make perfect unlimited copies of it so I can wear it forever and I don't expect the manufacturer to replace it for me when it wears out.

Fair use has a purpose and I agree that it should apply to digital items as well, however within limitation. The difference being that a digital item never degrades normal items do. You don't expect to have unlimited use of physical goods forever, why would you for a digital one?
 
so much idiocy in this thread. fuck the MAFIAA* lick balls, and to quote one angry watchmen fan. "eat all the dicks" im gonna make backups of whatever movies i bought and lend them out to whoever i want and when i dont feel like paying for something im gonna download it. long live freedom. freedom to do whatever the fuck i want and you can lick balls.
 
bonsai said:
So just because you're paying $20 for a personal license you believe that entitles you to unlimited, irrevocable, and perpetual use of that license?
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Yes. If there are no particular limitations to the contrary, then most certainly. Why would you believe that such a license would expire arbitrarily? How long do you believe a license should be valid until its expiration? Furthermore, do you believe my license is rendered null and void simply because my disc breaks?

bonsai said:
If I buy a $20 t-shirt I don't expect to be able to make perfect unlimited copies of it so I can wear it forever
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But, for personal use, you most certainly could, if you were so inclined. Because of the difficulties related to manufacturing t-shirts, most people obviously don't.

bonsai said:
I don't expect the manufacturer to replace it for me when it wears out.
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Why would you? It obviously costs them money to replace a physical good, which is why most disc replacement programs charge a nominal (though sometimes exorbitant) fee to cover the costs of the disc and shipping & handling.

bonsai said:
You don't expect to have unlimited use of physical goods forever, why would you for a digital one?
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I do expect to have unlimited use of goods forever, as that happens to be the entire purpose of ownership, bonsai. You believe otherwise?

I don't expect manufacturers to replace anything out of the warranty period for no cost, of course. That's not what we're discussing here.
 
acme420 said:
so much idiocy in this thread. fuck the MAFIAA* lick balls, and to quote one angry watchmen fan. "eat all the dicks" im gonna make backups of whatever movies i bought and lend them out to whoever i want and when i dont feel like paying for something im gonna download it. long live freedom. freedom to do whatever the fuck i want and you can lick balls.
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It's funny because the Pirate Bay tried this defense in front of a real judge and got their asses handed to them.

You break the law only because you can get away it. You'd be singing a much sader tune if you were sitting in a jail cell.
 
It obviously costs the movie companies money to produce the movies. They need to pay for the human resources, the equipments, the logistics and etc. When you bought a DVD, you didn't just pay for the physical media, you pay for cost to produce a movie on a DVD. If your DVD is damaged, you still need to pay for the production cost of another DVD.

It is just like buying a processor, you don't just pay for a piece of silicon, you also pay for the manufacturing, the research and developement. For example, if you processor died, you will need to buy a new one with the full cost, you don't just pay for the cost of the piece of silicon eventhough you have paid the research and developement cost before.
 
phide said:
Blind and unquestioning adherence to the letter of the law is not something to be admired. Without elements of anarchy providing resistance to the proliferation of oppression, the end result is, inevitably, a very different kind of society than we [Americans] worked so very hard to create in the first place.
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that sounds like it could be a quote from one of our forefathers. im not even sorry to say this- anyone that disagrees with this statement needs to get their head checked. this is the sole basis to our country, always has been and if you don't agree then your are a british *$@#& ;)
 
DudeItsMe said:
I bet people who copy DVD's are descendants of bootleggers from the prohibition era. The degradation of morals in the United States today is horrible!!!
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morals are overrated

besides, the people telling me it's illegal aren't exactly the epitome of virtue and righteousness (regardless what they tell you on tv). I download, rip and burn. They commit genocide and torture... I think i'm on the moral high ground here.
 
You can question the law, no doubt about that, but is it ok for you to do something illegal just because you think that the law is wrong? If that is the case, then it is also ok for people to download movies illegally if they think that the law is wrong. To be extreme, is it also ok to kill people if you think that the law is wrong?
 
bonsai said:
So just because you're paying $20 for a personal license you believe that entitles you to unlimited, irrevocable, and perpetual use of that license?

If I buy a $20 t-shirt I don't expect to be able to make perfect unlimited copies of it so I can wear it forever and I don't expect the manufacturer to replace it for me when it wears out.

Fair use has a purpose and I agree that it should apply to digital items as well, however within limitation. The difference being that a digital item never degrades normal items do. You don't expect to have unlimited use of physical goods forever, why would you for a digital one?
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because that is the point of digital. we have progressed technologically from when laws are made, the world updates itself but laws do not. Just like politics in general does not. There are billion dollar companies owned by 20somethings and 30somethings...yet we are supposed to take orders from old and outdated men and ideals.

A license unless specifically given an expiration date does not expire, and as such he is right, if the physical medium is destroyed you still purchased and own that license right. Therefore if you reacquire the content necessary to exercise that license right there should be no issue with that.

yes physical items degrade with time...thats why many companies offer lifetime warranties on their items. digital came to be so it can outlast the physical medium itself. Saying otherwise is just apologizing for their money making scheme (it's ok to make a profit, it's not ok to muscle more profit out of someone)
 
spacetrader said:
that sounds like it could be a quote from one of our forefathers. im not even sorry to say this- anyone that disagrees with this statement needs to get their head checked. this is the sole basis to our country, always has been and if you don't agree then your are a british *$@#& ;)
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QFT!

even if nowadays we are being told that you are a terrorist if you don't blindly obey
 
phide said:
I'm going to back up my DVDs regardless of whether it's legal or not. I'm going to encode my DVD rips for iPhone use regardless of whether it's legal or not. I'm going to download Blu-ray rips for Blu-rays I own regardless of whether it's legal or not.
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Well if we all do it, they can't fit us all in jail right? I going to bet the odds it will be someone other than me.;)

phide said:
Although I live in the U.S., the DMCA simply does not apply to me. I've merely decided that it doesn't apply to me. It sounds arrogant, sure, but it's also the reality.
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Hmm. Declare a soverign nation in your own home - Land of phide. Your nation has no DMCA laws right?:D
 
Screw the MPAA and the RIAA.

They are nothing more than a bunch of greedy, cigar-smoking, money-hungry savages.

I am entitled to back up anything I have purchased, as many times as I want to.

In 20 years from now, it will probably be illegal to "remember" what you watched on television because that memory is someone else's intellectual property.

Anyone heard "Remember that scene in the movie where..." as they are walking out of a movie theater will be immediately snatched up, gagged with duct tape, thrown into a 70's style van or panel truck, and driven off to I.P. Re-Education Camp. :eek:
 
alg7_munif said:
You can question the law, no doubt about that, but is it ok for you to do something illegal just because you think that the law is wrong? If that is the case, then it is also ok for people to download movies illegally if they think that the law is wrong. To be extreme, is it also ok to kill people if you think that the law is wrong?
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it's perfectly fine to kill people, considering nature is amoral.

just because it's legal doesn't make it right, and just because it's illegal doesn't make it wrong.
 
alg7_munif said:
When you bought a DVD, you didn't just pay for the physical media, you pay for cost to produce a movie on a DVD. If your DVD is damaged, you still need to pay for the production cost of another DVD.
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You pay for the production cost of the DVD when you purchase the DVD at retail. If the associated costs are, say, $13.50 per retail product, you've paid this "due", so to speak, when you purchased the original DVD.

When you produce your own DVD from an archival copy, you aren't automagically depriving the studio of the DVD's manufacturing and production costs. You're depriving yourself of a blank DVD-R and your own time. The movie studio is entirely unaffected except that they aren't realizing additional profits for a license to "use" the movie you've already purchased. We all know why the DMCA was passed in the first place, after all.

It wasn't long ago that license terms used the word encouraged with respect to the creation of backup copies. Usually both the words "encouraged" and "permitted" were used. Now, thanks to the DMCA, the only word we can use to describe this behavior is "illegal". Seems somewhat similar to the prohibition of alcohol in the 1920's and early 1930's, doesn't it?

alg7_munif said:
For example, if you processor died, you will need to buy a new one with the full cost, you don't just pay for the cost of the piece of silicon even though you have paid the research and developement cost before.
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This is primarily only because there is no other outlet to replace the processor. This is not (typically) true of digital goods shipped on physical media.

Similarly, when you buy a game on Steam, do you pay development costs when you need to re-download your purchased game? It takes work (expense) to package a game for sale on Steam, right? So why wouldn't you pay that every single time you download the game rather than only the first time? Is there a difference?
 
I love the MPAAs solutions to this issue:

At the DMCA 1201 hearings at the Copyright Office at the Library of Congress, representatives from the MPAA showed a video demonstrating how users can videorecord a TV set. They argue this is an acceptable analog alternative to breaking copy protection on a DVD.

The hearings occur every three years to determine whether the Librarian at the Library of Congress (through direction of the Copyright Office) should create exemptions to the anti-circumvention provisions in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

In 2006, film and media professors were granted an exemption in order to break copy protection on DVDs so that they could utilize high quality video clips in classroom teaching. Up for consideration during the 2009 exemption hearings is whether this exemption should be extended to apply to faculty teaching in all disciplines, and whether the exemption should apply to students.
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Link to the video
 
The only way it should be legal to prevent backup copies from being made is to have a no questions asked CD/DVD/BR replacement at no cost.
 
phide said:
Similarly, when you buy a game on Steam, do you pay development costs when you need to re-download your purchased game? It takes work (expense) to package a game for sale on Steam, right? So why wouldn't you pay that every single time you download the game rather than only the first time? Is there a difference?
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Yes, the difference is legallity. :D

We can argue as much as we want, but it won't change the legallity. If copying your own DVD is illegal then it will considered as piracy just like downloading movies illegally from the internet. The point that I want to make here is, if you are doing something illegal, you should know that it is illegal regardless what you think.

I'm not saying that I didn't do something illegal or I won't do something illegal, what I want to say that if you are ready to do something illegal, you must also be ready to face the consequences later if you have to. Let me give you a tip, the trick is not to get caught ;)
 
alg7_munif said:
You can question the law, no doubt about that, but is it ok for you to do something illegal just because you think that the law is wrong?
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In Norfolk, Va. it's illegal for a woman to go outside without wearing a corset.


just saying :eek:
 
I forgot to add that, if you don't want to get caught, you don't tell people out loud that you are doing something illegal.
 
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