The Cost of Apple’s Marketing Machine

samsonJS said:
Apple sells hardware. They are a hardware company. Is Dell not a hardware company? They sell fucking hardware man. It's so obvious I can't believe I had to state it, repeat it 5 times, and you still don't get it. Apple is a hardware company. Go to their online store or a real store and tell me what you can buy. 99% of it is hardware. Let it sink in for a few minutes before you fire off a reply.
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You don't get it at all... with all those other companies you have choices to run whatever you want... except Apple's OS's. Apple gives no option to run their OS on my personal computer. They develop it, they license it, and they suppress it.
 
stop!theradio said:
About comparing Apple to itself: what's the use in comparing something to what it could be? Who even KNOWS what it could be? No one does. Apple is doing damned fine where they're at, and, as I've already said before, they're in a great spot right now. Of course, there's always room for improvement, no matter which company you are, but that's a given. Agiven that you are trying to make a point out of. It's needless to say that they "could be doing better". No kidding! So could MS. So could Yahoo. So could Google. So could Wal Mart, and so the list goes on.
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Holy shit, I think you may be beginning to see what my point is. That was my argument. They are content with their little bubble world, and suppressing options. They could be something much better, hence opening up to the world and giving people options. They sure wouldn't lose any customers, they'd gain a TON.
 
w1retap said:
Holy shit, I think you may be beginning to see what my point is. That was my argument. They are content with their little bubble world, and suppressing options. They could be something much better, hence opening up to the world and giving people options. They sure wouldn't lose any customers, they'd gain a TON.
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Yes, but the thing is that you keep giving the impression that they're in some kind of bad place, and failing. Everyone could do better, to reiterate myself and others for the millionth time, but they're not doing bad in any kind of way, such as you've attempted to say in the past.
 
stop!theradio said:
Yes, but the thing is that you keep giving the impression that they're in some kind of bad place, and failing. Everyone could do better, to reiterate myself and others for the millionth time, but they're not doing bad in any kind of way, such as you've attempted to say in the past.
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I know, they've been on a moderate incline in their sales and marketshare. They could get a very large jump if they opened up to the PC community. Do you know how many people would buy the Mac OS if they released it for PC platforms with mainstream driver support? I know I'd dual boot it. It would take efforts on their part, but it could easily be done considering the success they've had over the years. But that just isn't the mentality of Mr. Jobs. Absolute control is.
 
w1retap said:
I know, they've been on a moderate incline in their sales and marketshare. They could get a very large jump if they opened up to the PC community. Do you know how many people would buy the Mac OS if they released it for PC platforms with mainstream driver support? I know I'd dual boot it. It would take efforts on their part, but it could easily be done considering the success they've had over the years. But that just isn't the mentality of Mr. Jobs. Absolute control is.
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With their current situation their success is, in a way, locked in. I suppose they're afraid of making themselves utterly mainstream. Perhaps Mr. Jobs feels it will take away the "exclusivity" that Apple products currently represent? I don't know. What I do know, though, is that Apple is very successful, but like all other companies, there is always room for improvement. I think we've met on a common ground, and our debate is settled. :)
 
Pretty much. I'd just like to see them drop their mentality and open up to the market for the good of the consumer. =)
 
Derfman said:
If Apple ever does see the day where it has 50% of the computer user market then you will start seeing the other problems coming up and more frequently at that.
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FACT: OS X had more security flaws than Vista.
FACT: OS X has considerably less market penetration than Vista.

Using some of the dumbass logic the Apple fanboys use, HOW THE HELL do they expect the Mac to outpace Windows and not run into more issues? More people running OS X = More chances for issues = More issues.
Period.



Chris_B said:
If thats the case why do they have apple care and support forums? If they "just work" there would be no need for any of those.
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QFT.
This is also a great plus of Windows. There's simply so many people running Windows, not only is it not too hard to find someone that has an answer for your issues, but being there is more folks using Windows: you usually get a faster answer.

Macs: you're dead in the water. 90% of the time their "genius" answer is just replace the damned machine :rolleyes:

w1retap said:
Rthe Apple rep we were leasing from had to bring out several different Mac Pro's, even an old Power Mac to try to fix our problems we were having with Final Cut and Adobe Premiere.
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This goes into previous comment of mine.
WHAT THE HELL kind of a "genius" replaces the hardware in an effort to fix a software issue? Anyone?
Heck, common sense would dictate if you did that once: isn't going to work.
Being the Mac geniuses lack common sense, they keep replacing the hardware in an attempt to fix the software :rolleyes:


Most mac folks are just under-educated in the computer world. That even goes for much of their support staff, from what I've seen. The only Mac techs I've seen worth half a penny are on these forums.


Gone are the days of 1997 when Apple's argument held a little bit of water.
 
lol I say this in every Apple thread.

I have about 500-700 dollars that I am begging Apple to take from me... and they won't :(
They have only one option (That I am aware of so far) within that price range. The Mac Mini. Not the best option considering what I can get from a PC vendor.

Apple: Build a tower with decent specs, and take my money. Please :(
 
TechieSooner said:
Most mac folks are just under-educated in the computer world.
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If you believe this you have been living under a rock since OS X was released. Since that time many a *nix geek and even a number of Win NT buffs have switched to Apple's platform. MS isn't the only one with awesome (and popular*) development tools anymore. Not for a while now. Remember that OS X is based on NeXT, which was good enough to attract great minds like Tim Berners-Lee (father of the WWW).

* NeXT wasn't popular enough, imo, even though it was already great tech back then

Wander into an IT shop or university's comp sci wing and you'll see that more and more computer savvy folk see merit in Apple's platform.
 
Shambler said:
lol I say this in every Apple thread.

I have about 500-700 dollars that I am begging Apple to take from me... and they won't :(
They have only one option (That I am aware of so far) within that price range. The Mac Mini. Not the best option considering what I can get from a PC vendor.

Apple: Build a tower with decent specs, and take my money. Please :(
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It's not like Apple to release a tweaker or modder's dream box. I wish they would spin-off a subsidiary or something to target us though. I too feel that they're ignoring a big segment in the $700-2000 price range. They need something alongside the iMac, something upgradeable with single CPU. If they included 2-way Crossfire or SLI they might even attract a number of dual-booting gamers.
 
samsonJS said:
Wander into an IT shop or university's comp sci wing and you'll see that more and more computer savvy folk see merit in Apple's platform.
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LMAO.
University Students hardly equal real world and relevant experience.
I can speak from both experience as well as seeing this more and more, that Macs at Universities are nothing more than a "cool" thing to do.
 
You're right, no one smart uses Macs for real work. There are no successful Cocoa programmers. I mean, how could anyone get work done an a platform that comes with Apache, OpenSSH, zsh, Python, Ruby, Ruby on Rails, XCode, and numerous other development tools right on the installation disc?
 
TechieSooner said:
FACT: OS X had more security flaws than Vista.
FACT: OS X has considerably less market penetration than Vista.

Using some of the dumbass logic the Apple fanboys use, HOW THE HELL do they expect the Mac to outpace Windows and not run into more issues? More people running OS X = More chances for issues = More issues.
Period.

Holy cow have you ever heard of an analogy? I was using this to support my argument in regards to the Apple Fanboy vs. Windows Fanboy, it was entirely figurative and exagerated and in no way do I ever expect Apple to hold 50% of the PC consumer market...

In their current state in how they handle things bundling software with their hardware exclusively (though of course there is the hackintosh) the statement that I made is obviously not my expectation...

Way to take a totally different argument / statement and twist it to fill your own lust for fanboy on fanboy rage... I for one was trying to make an intelligent statement as to why it shouldn't matter... And why some people buy into this marketing bullshit.

And to answer your question, I don't know how people expect OS X to outplace Windows. I was always under the impression that the biggest Apple consumers are more than content with the products exclusiveness...
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Derfman said:
Holy cow have you ever heard of an analogy? I was using this to support my argument in regards to the Apple Fanboy vs. Windows Fanboy, it was entirely figurative and exagerated and in no way do I ever expect Apple to hold 50% of the PC consumer market...
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That wasn't against you ;)
I was using it as the exact reason why Apple will fail once they hit that much share.
I agree with your statements- I just used them as examples of my own.

samsonJS said:
You're right, no one smart uses Macs for real work. There are no successful Cocoa programmers. I mean, how could anyone get work done an a platform that comes with Apache, OpenSSH, zsh, Python, Ruby, Ruby on Rails, XCode, and numerous other development tools right on the installation disc?
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I never said there were some Mac users in the minority that used it for good work like that. I've said it before there are some smart Mac users that prefer it. That's fine.
But citing a university where fashions and feelings rule above sensibility and fact as for a reason why Mac users are Savvy is just folly.
 
samsonJS said:
Now you used the word "fanboi" and spelled it like a 13 year old. I think this might be the end of our conversation.
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When a child responds to a logical argument based on real world experience (as opposed to irrational hatred based on something silly like image or marketing) with the word "fanboi", you know its time to move on...
 
samsonJS said:
If you believe this you have been living under a rock since OS X was released. Since that time many a *nix geek and even a number of Win NT buffs have switched to Apple's platform. MS isn't the only one with awesome (and popular*) development tools anymore. Not for a while now. Remember that OS X is based on NeXT, which was good enough to attract great minds like Tim Berners-Lee (father of the WWW).

* NeXT wasn't popular enough, imo, even though it was already great tech back then

Wander into an IT shop or university's comp sci wing and you'll see that more and more computer savvy folk see merit in Apple's platform.
Click to expand...

You're right, no one smart uses Macs for real work. There are no successful Cocoa programmers. I mean, how could anyone get work done an a platform that comes with Apache, OpenSSH, zsh, Python, Ruby, Ruby on Rails, XCode, and numerous other development tools right on the installation disc?
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Don't forget that Doom and Quake were made in NextSTEP 3.3, which became OS X (there's a reason why Carmack keep making presentations at Macworld). Then there's these guys: http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb48e66JUNM

Lemme guess, the Coen Brothers and David Fincher must be fanboys, and all OS X is good for is making a "fashion statement". :rolleyes:
 
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