Fallout 3 is a huge dissapointment

KamelRed said:
And what are you doing in this thread? I see no opinion from you yet you accuse us of being trolls.

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That's because I haven't played it yet? I don't have an opinion. Regardless, you guys ARE trolling if you just throw in almost monosyllabic responses to his rather long post.

Oh yeah. The mods are gonna be sick. That's what I am mostly going to get the game for.

Also, for the ones who are bashing the so-called "disappointed Fallout fanatics"... c'mon. Kill Super Mutants and Enclaves with a sledge hammer? Really? If what the OP says is true, that HAS to be this most retarded thing ever (not the game, but the fact). I mean, that's like saying you're not disappointed that Bioshock was the easiest crap ever and you won't be disappointed when Bioshock 2 comes out 10 times easier. You're not disappointed when you can kill Bowser with one fireball. You're not disappointed when Sephiroth can be killed with one attack. You're not disappointed when you can run through Deus Ex without any covert actions whatsoever.

I mean, really. That's dumb. I would be seriously letdown. And that is why I can see the OP's point of view.
 
I don't know dude. To each their own but I've enjoying the game on my machine all night last night and this morning. I picked it up at the store at about 9PM and didn't leave the computer until like 4AM. It was that fun.

The great thing about Fallout 3 is that mods will be out for it like they were for Oblivion. :)
 
Bad mouse implementation is a huge letdown. Mouse accel / smoothing which can't be turned off = fail.
 
Maybe mods will fix this game. Maybe someone will create an animation pack that fixes the horrible animations. Maybe someone will make VATS actually mean something (strategy wise). Maybe someone will balance the game so that you can't kill the Enclave and super mutants with a sledge hammer at a low level. Maybe someone will update the graphics engine so it's on par with Fable 2, Assassins Creed, and Unreal Engine 3. I don't know if anyone will do any of these things, but Bethesda should have addressed them before it shipped the game.

Also, saying that Bethesda had to release this game in its current form to appeal to the largest audience possible is ignorant. There are successful games released all the time that don't follow the FPS model. Simply because a game is released for a console doesn't mean its gameplay has to be void of any depth. This is the game's biggest fault; the gameplay lacks any depth.

When I finally got into the BoS headquarters and got my power armor I was hopeful again that maybe the game would be fun, but I was disappointed again. The power armor made NO difference whatsoever in combat. None. That is not how fallout worked in the past, and that's not how RPGs work now. Typically when you upgrade to a vastly better piece of armor you see a huge change in the amount of damage your character can do or you see a huge decrease in the amount of damage he takes. That does not exist in this game. I might as well run around in a loin cloth as a set of power armor because in the end I'll take and deal the same amount of damage.

This game should not only be compared to games released for this generation of console but also the games it's based on. Compared to the games it's based on FO3 is inferior except for the graphics, so I'm disappointed.
 
Alai said:
Kill Super Mutants and Enclaves with a sledge hammer? Really? If what the OP says is true, that HAS to be this most retarded thing ever (not the game, but the fact).
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I used to kill super mutants with sledgehammers all the time in the originals, no biggy

and

petertew said:
Maybe mods will fix this game. Maybe someone will create an animation pack that fixes the horrible animations. Maybe someone will make VATS actually mean something (strategy wise). Maybe someone will balance the game so that you can't kill the Enclave and super mutants with a sledge hammer at a low level. Maybe someone will update the graphics engine so it's on par with Fable 2, Assassins Creed, and Unreal Engine 3. I don't know if anyone will do any of these things, but Bethesda should have addressed them before it shipped the game.

Also, saying that Bethesda had to release this game in its current form to appeal to the largest audience possible is ignorant. There are successful games released all the time that don't follow the FPS model. Simply because a game is released for a console doesn't mean its gameplay has to be void of any depth. This is the game's biggest fault; the gameplay lacks any depth.

When I finally got into the BoS headquarters and got my power armor I was hopeful again that maybe the game would be fun, but I was disappointed again. The power armor made NO difference whatsoever in combat. None. That is not how fallout worked in the past, and that's not how RPGs work now. Typically when you upgrade to a vastly better piece of armor you see a huge change in the amount of damage your character can do or you see a huge decrease in the amount of damage he takes. That does not exist in this game. I might as well run around in a loin cloth as a set of power armor because in the end I'll take and deal the same amount of damage.

This game should not only be compared to games released for this generation of console but also the games it's based on. Compared to the games it's based on FO3 is inferior except for the graphics, so I'm disappointed.
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We already know you dont like it. There is no sense going through and repeating all the same shit over again. Its your opinion and other folks have their opinions.

So, STFU
 
edifyingkarma said:
I used to kill super mutants with sledgehammers all the time in the originals, no biggy

and

We already know you dont like it. There is no sense going through and repeating all the same shit over again. Its your opinion and other folks have their opinions.

So, STFU
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I'm responding to other people's posts. Please don't tell me to shut the fuck up; the whole point of a forum is to enable discussion between individuals. If you don't enjoy participating in that discussion then stop. No one is forcing you to read what I've written.

Also, I call bullshit on you writing you used to kill super mutants with sledge hammers all the time in the original. You didn't kill super mutants with sledge hammers at a low level in your vault dweller uniform. You might have done so in power armor at a high level late in the game, but you didn't do it early in the game.
 
SilverSliver said:
I wish there was melee VATS targeting.
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WHAT?!?!?!? THERE's NO MELEE VATS??!?!

What the EFFFFFFF. I love melee characters. And their ability to target in original Fallouts was my fav! Wow. Talk about retardation.

edifyingkarma said:
I used to kill super mutants with sledgehammers all the time in the originals, no biggy
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Um... with high crit and/or strength? Maybe. But I highly doubt it. Are you talking about after you save and load over and over and get crit after crit after crit? Then yeah, I guess. But then that's not really killing the Super Mutant. That's you never dying and having infinite chances to win.
 
petertew said:
I'm responding to other people's posts. Please don't tell me to shut the fuck up; the whole point of a forum is to enable discussion between individuals. If you don't enjoy participating in that discussion then stop. No one is forcing you to read what I've written.

Also, I call bullshit on you writing you used to kill super mutants with sledge hammers all the time in the original. You didn't kill super mutants with sledge hammers at a low level in your vault dweller uniform. You might have done so in power armor at a high level late in the game, but you didn't do it early in the game.
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The discussing has stopped and the rambling has begun. That is what I am saying and I am now becoming part of the problem by refuting this coment again, so its time for me to STFU as well. I leave the rambling on about how much you hate to you
 
Mark_Warner said:
Um. There is. I've done it. The weapon I had in hand at the time was crap, so it was woefuly ineffective, but you can do it.
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Every time I've used a melee weapon, you can only target the body as a whole via VATS. There was no specific body part targeting. I want to break some kneecaps with a sledge.
 
Mark_Warner said:
Um. There is. I've done it. The weapon I had in hand at the time was crap, so it was woefuly ineffective, but you can do it.
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I couldn't target body parts with my baseball bat it was just lighting up the whole body and I hoped I crippled an arm or something to disarm them.

I haven't tried it with a more finesse weapon like the combat knife though. I could have sworn Todd Howard targeted an enemies head with the power fist in a video.
 
SilverSliver said:
Every time I've used a melee weapon, you can only target the body as a whole via VATS. There was no specific body part targeting. I want to break some kneecaps with a sledge.
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Since you can target body parts without VATS, can you do the same with melee weapons? Or is there an issue because the character uses the same melee swing with his weapon? Aka can you target the legs without VATS or are you unable to because he swings overhead and always hits the shoulder/head?
 
Mark_Warner said:
Um. There is. I've done it. The weapon I had in hand at the time was crap, so it was woefuly ineffective, but you can do it.
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What the guy was saying was not that there was no melee with VATS, he is saying there is no specific body part targeting. So you can run up to someone and turn on VATS and beat them silly with a baseball bat, but every swing will randomly hit the enemies legs, arms, torso, or head, without you having any control.

On the positive side, you can still get some wicked kills with VATS and a melee weapon. For instance, I was in the school last night and had one raider left to kill. I ran up to him with a combat knife, went into VATS, and swung at him three times. Obviously I hit him in random locations, but the third strike was apparently a head hit because the knife cut right through his neck and his head popped off.
 
From the GameSpot Forums:

They didn't want to make the animations for missing a melee attack so melee in VATS is guaranteed to hit.

Then this raised the problem of constantly aiming for the head with guaranteed hits, so they essentially just made melee VATS guaranteed super-smashes with fatalities.

They could have just easily increased the AP cost for melee VATS but no, that's not fun or immersive they say.
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You can still hit people in the groin or face, you just have to aim for them. It's not quite as satisfying, I know, but really it's basically the same.
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So far I have played about three hours and I have really been enjoying the game (apparently in spite of having played and loved Wasteland, Fallout 1, and Fallout 2).

Here is why I like the game. After leaving the vault I made my way to Megaton fairly quickly. After talking to various people in Megaton I wandered into the Church of the Atom. While there I accidentally opened a footlocker and got a karma hit for stealing. Then about 20 seconds later a couple guys come rushing at me with knives. I then realized I would need to either kill the guys or get the heck out of dodge. Given that I was intending to play a basicallly neutral character with slight tendency to be good I chose to run away. I ran all the way through town with people shooting at me the entire way. When I got near the exit the sheriff started shooting at me with his rifle. For some reason that really annoyed me, so I decided to kill him. I used VATS to put 4 rounds from my 10mm pistol into his head and then I finished him with a couple more real-time shots. Then I looted his stuff (which I had wanted anyway since my character is based on Jon Shannow) and left town.

In any other game I would have reloaded an old save, which would have only cost me about 5 minutes, but for some reason this game is one of those where I KNOW that having killed the sheriff will change the game, but also make it MORE interesting, not less interesting. I am now a renegade wandering the wastes, killing raiders (including all of them in Springvale Elementary) and looking for another town in which to do some trading, and where I can maybe start regaining some Karma after the evil deed I performed in Megaton.

In reality, for the Jon Shannow inspired character I am playing, things could not have gone any better. It really feels like the kind of start to life a guy like Jon would have had in another world than the one he was written into. As a young kid he makes a small mistake that escalates out of control and he becomes a renegade. Then he has to earn his way back into the trust of those he wronged. FREAKING AWESOME.

This game just feels so much more alive than other game I have played. It feels a lot more like a real story that I am helping create, but is exciting and fun at the same time. On top of that it also DEFINITELY lives up to the legacy of the Wasteland and Fallout games. I could ask for more, but I certainly couldn't expect anything better without another couple of years of development time.
 
Still disappointed this is not a continuation of the classic fallout style of game play. However I am enjoying the game so far, story is decent, graphics are ok and the combat is fun. Not pleased to hear that latter items might not show much difference compared to early game armors and such. Hope mods come soon. So the game is worth a try but if some of you still have doubts wait till it is cheap then pick it up.

I don't understand how some of you can be so rabid and not understand people like certain styles of play and when you change a series that has been one thing into another it is going to disappoint people and they have every right to say so. Stop being dicks and let people have their own opinion and stop trying to force your opinion of fun on the rest of us. If this game had stayed true to the previous play style it would still have sold well and been a decent game because whether you like it or not people do play and like turn based games.
 
I'm glad most of you really like the game. I didn't create this post in order to try to get people to stop liking it; I posted my thoughts simply to point out what I perceive as the flaws and shortcomings of this game.

I should have mentioned I over 10 hours (I think) logged in this game.
 
I haven't played Fallout 1 or 2. Picked up 3 because I was bored, saw it at Bestbuy, and generally I enjoy the post-apocalyptic setting. So far I'm greatly impressed. The OP has some good points about the animation, but I think he is a little foolish in comparing it to UT3 or others.

The big issue is draw distance, UT3, Assasins Creed etc are all closed world games, the levels, for the most part, are very small. While Fallout has a massive world, stepping outside the vault you can see clear accross the world. That takes a ton of power to process so some finer details might get left out. I will agree the animation could use some work.

As for the other complaints of the OP, the atmosphere I think is excellent overall. Really feels like it should, however I will agree some people look too "healthy". My big disagreement with his post is the gameplay section. Specifially his arguement.

I was almost instantly annoyed at the first person perspective because it completely changed the entire feel of the game.
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but follows up with

one that would introduce new combat elements like cover systems, coordinated team attacks, maybe even classes
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So you would like them to borrow elements from RTS (cover systems), squad based shooters (team attacks), and action rpgs like diablo instead? (classes)

It really just sounds like FPS's aren't your bag of tea so you say they ruined the series, however you seem completely open to other ways of changing the core gameplay as long as its not first person or 3rd person live action.

Remember, all of this is from someone who hasn't played 1 or 2. I'm actually considering buying them from Good Old Games on the cheap. Just my opinion so far.
 
I have a few hours into this game and am enjoying it for what it is. I played the previous 2 games and loved them -- but I am a turn based RPG fan. I loved the dark humor these games represent and couldn't wait until Fallout 3.

I started the game and was a bit confused at the FPS type presentation, but soon switched to the 3rd person view and like that a bit more. I am using VATS a ton and prefer that way (more like the first 2 games). Your APs come into play and you have to twitch less.

The graphics are all right. Better than Oblivion but not as good as COD4.

The voiceovers seem a bit lame -- but what do you do.

I look at it as a form of entertainment - and it is keeping me entertained.
 
I’m also one of those folks that played Fallout 1 and 2 back in the day, hell I probably logged 20 hours just replaying the demo for Fallout 1, and I’m lovin Fallout 3.

I think it’s pretty silly to claim Bethesda was lazy because they reused the Gamebryo engine for Fallout 3. That’s like saying Interplay was lazy for reusing Fallout 1’s engine in Fallout 2. Bethesda did a lot of work on this game, and I think the fact that they not only didn’t alienate PC users by doing a shitty port, but actually made the PC version better than the consoles, speaks quite a bit to that statement.

The analogy comparing of Bethesda changing FO3 to Blizzard changing Diablo’s style is silly too. Diablo has “for the most part” always belonged to Blizzard. Bethesda is (obviously) a different company than Interplay. In my opinion, common sense should tell you that if an IP changes hands (especially one that hadn’t had a true sequel in 7 years), then your expectations should also change. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t expect some level of quality, but you’d be foolish to think a decade old formula (that’s practically nonexistent now) was going to be reused/ maintained/ improved upon.

Aside from the graphics/animations, It appears that your main issue lies in the fact that you were expecting something different for FO3. Whether its atmosphere, storyline, or graphics, the game’s not meeting your expectations. While I can understand that to a point, it’s not as if Bethesda has been lying about or keeping these things secret from us for the past few years. If you had access to the internet or a gaming magazine, then you’d know what was coming.

I’m sorry to hear that you didn’t enjoy the game, but I really think you shot yourself in the foot on this one.
 
For me, I have to agree with alot of the OP statements.

More so, FO3 feels like Oblivion with guns. It feels like a huge Oblivion mod.

I don't mind that it's 1st person or 3rd person interface. What I feel is lacking is that it doesn't do either very well. It doesn't feel like it's a polished FPS, or a polished 3rd-person shooter. It's a clunky interface with clunky combat.

I am enjoying the game, but it could have been done better. It's Oblivion with a Fallout mask.
 
Artificiary said:
I’m also one of those folks that played Fallout 1 and 2 back in the day, hell I probably logged 20 hours just replaying the demo for Fallout 1, and I’m lovin Fallout 3.

The analogy comparing of Bethesda changing FO3 to Blizzard changing Diablo’s style is silly too. Diablo has “for the most part” always belonged to Blizzard. Bethesda is (obviously) a different company than Interplay. In my opinion, common sense should tell you that if an IP changes hands (especially one that hadn’t had a true sequel in 7 years), then your expectations should also change. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t expect some level of quality, but you’d be foolish to think a decade old formula (that’s practically nonexistent now) was going to be reused/ maintained/ improved upon.
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Why would common sense tell me that an IP changing owners would suddenly change the gameplay? And why does how old a formula is dictate how good it is? Starcraft is 10 years old and the formula still works. You'll notice with Starcraft 2 Blizzard is making an RTS again; they are not making a first person shooter out of the series. What they are doing is improving upon the formula that has been so successful all these years.

Heros of might and magic 5 did something I would have rather seen FO3 do. The developers looked at the previous games and followed a similar formula, improving some of the weak spots and adding new styles that augmented and improved the gameplay.

Half Life 2 did the same thing. It followed the previously established formula, and improved it.

Artificiary said:
Aside from the graphics/animations, It appears that your main issue lies in the fact that you were expecting something different for FO3. Whether its atmosphere, storyline, or graphics, the game’s not meeting your expectations. While I can understand that to a point, it’s not as if Bethesda has been lying about or keeping these things secret from us for the past few years. If you had access to the internet or a gaming magazine, then you’d know what was coming.
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I'm not sure I see your point here. I did follow the development of the game from its announcement. Also, my expectations for this game were that it would be more similar to Oblivion than Fallout 1 or 2; my expectations were correct, and I'm disappointed with the final product.
 
I played till I got to Megaton, talked to the black guy then exited the game....I've never been so bored
 
Ididar said:
Arguing with people that they're wrong for enjoying the game is just ... well ... downright silly. You can't argue with people about their enjoyment of anything. Whether its music, art, video games ... anything. If they enjoy it ... they do. You can make your own judgments on the quality of the game but after that point you're wasting your time trying to convince anyone that their opinion of the game is wrong.
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Give this man a cookie! You are dead on sir. And for the record I do like Fallout 3 from the little bits that I have played. It looks good and plays pretty well. Outdoors do strain my computer, but wait for tweak guides etc...
 
Conclusion: Fallout 3 is a good, if not decent, game on its own, but it's not the Fallout sequel people were looking into. I am thinking of likening this situation to Deus Ex and Invisible War.
 
KamelRed said:
Same here. Really the only people who don't seem to be enjoying it are people that played Fallout 1 and 2.

I pity them.
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Not so fast. I loved Fallout 1 and 2 (in fact I would put both of them in a top 10 of all time list), and I'm having a blast in Fallout 3.
 
Alai said:
Conclusion: Fallout 3 is a good, if not decent, game on its own, but it's not the Fallout sequel people were looking into. I am thinking of likening this situation to Deus Ex and Invisible War.
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I think that pretty much nails it.
 
Posted by Artificiary...

I’m also one of those folks that played Fallout 1 and 2 back in the day, hell I probably logged 20 hours just replaying the demo for Fallout 1, and I’m lovin Fallout 3.

I think it’s pretty silly to claim Bethesda was lazy because they reused the Gamebryo engine for Fallout 3. That’s like saying Interplay was lazy for reusing Fallout 1’s engine in Fallout 2. Bethesda did a lot of work on this game, and I think the fact that they not only didn’t alienate PC users by doing a shitty port, but actually made the PC version better than the consoles, speaks quite a bit to that statement.

The analogy comparing of Bethesda changing FO3 to Blizzard changing Diablo’s style is silly too. Diablo has “for the most part” always belonged to Blizzard. Bethesda is (obviously) a different company than Interplay. In my opinion, common sense should tell you that if an IP changes hands (especially one that hadn’t had a true sequel in 7 years), then your expectations should also change. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t expect some level of quality, but you’d be foolish to think a decade old formula (that’s practically nonexistent now) was going to be reused/ maintained/ improved upon.

Aside from the graphics/animations, It appears that your main issue lies in the fact that you were expecting something different for FO3. Whether its atmosphere, storyline, or graphics, the game’s not meeting your expectations. While I can understand that to a point, it’s not as if Bethesda has been lying about or keeping these things secret from us for the past few years. If you had access to the internet or a gaming magazine, then you’d know what was coming.

I’m sorry to hear that you didn’t enjoy the game, but I really think you shot yourself in the foot on this one.




+1...very well said :)
 
I don't have the game yet, but from what I've read part of the enjoyment in this game will be noticing your surroundings and the little things added to create the atmosphere.
I think we all knew some were not going to like #3 simply because it isn't like the previous 2 in gameplay style.
 
Alai said:
Conclusion: Fallout 3 is a good, if not decent, game on its own, but it's not the Fallout sequel people were looking into. I am thinking of likening this situation to Deus Ex and Invisible War.
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I disagree, its an excellent game on its own, the main reason some people dislike it is because its not isometric and turn based. Its hard to like a game if you heavily dislike its fundamental design, and after that they just criticize everything.
 
I think the game turned out much much better than I expected. I loved Fallout 1 and 2 and couldn't stand playing Morrowind or Oblivion for more than 30 minutes. The world was impressive but combat and the leveling/skill/etc mechanics were terrible. Now all that is fixed with special and vats. Bethesda finally made a great rpg imo.
 
So far for me, and I didn't play the first two, FO3 has been just like Oblivion. I agree with the OP regarding the animations. They are terrible. Atrocious.

VATS is cool for strategically taking down opponents. However, it's annoying to pull off a few shots, run around to regain AP, then fire off more.

I am only in the first town right now, but the characters remind me of Oblivion too. Yea, they seem somewhat lifelike, but at the same time, they move so stiffly that it's distracting.
Also, in Oblivion, if you kill off, say the mayor or SHERIFF, of a town, everyone reacts in some way. When I did something similar, the town did not seem to notice much.

Finally, the first part in the Vault is going to limit the replayability for me. Very boring, very tedious.

Finally, graphics are nice. Open areas are just as, if not more beautiful than in Oblivion, just in a broken, rusted kind of way. Still, though it is a post-appocalyptic game, there are not enough people in the town Megaton. It's supposed to be a relatively active trading stop. I don't get that feeling.
Also, I am getting some weird glitching on water. Even the weird pool around the bomb in megaton would sometimes render correctly, sometimes not.
And because I am a nice guy here are some screenshots:
BTW, Edge-detect AA ftw...
ScreenShot2.jpg

ScreenShot3.jpg
 
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