Gears of War 2 not coming to PC because...PC gamers are too tech-savvy to not buy it?

bonsai said:
Oh sorry, I'll fix it.

Gamers: "This new Unreal sucks so we're not going to buy it, we'll pirate it instead"

Epic: "Okay then our new game Gears of War will be primarily a console game"

Gamers: "Gears of War for PC sucks so we're not to buy it, we'll pirate it instead"

Epic: "Okay, then we're just not going to make a PC version this time"

Gamers: "Fuck you! You fail at life noobs!"
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You continue to include the "we'll pirate it instead" part, when the PC Gamers I'm talking about...you know, those that made the UT series popular BOUGHT THE DAMN GAMES. They are NOT pirates!

bonsai said:
Seriously, how can you blame him? Gears of War obviously sold well enough on console to make a sequel, and if you aren't getting the sales on PC, then why bother?
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You continue with the same fallacy. You continue to assume that the reason they gave, that's behind their crappy sales, was really piracy, when that's not the case. Sure piracy accounted for part of it, but UT3 was as pirated as UT2004 (probably less actually) and UT2004 still sold like hotcakes. Why was that ? Well, I'll venture a guess and say that it was because UT2004 was a true PC Game, while UT3 was a crappy game suffering from severe "consolitis portis", which the true Unreal fans, didn't really care for. So it didn't sell well because of just piracy. It didn't sell well because it was/is a crappy game. Instead of admitting their mistakes and improving the game (especially the horrific UI), they banned users and closed threads in their forums, that had nothing more than suggestions to make the game better. After that, we got the "Epic will focus 100% on consoles from now on", to which most of us said "Good riddance!", but they still insist on making these remarks about how all PC Gamers are pirates, when WE were the ones that made them what they are today.

So yes, I can blame him for being a moron. But as a known comedian would say "You can't fix stupid",..
 
pfunkman said:
Nobodys pretending that. Epic is pretending that EVERYONE is pirating thier games.
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Obviously it's a big enough percentage that they don't feel like their investment in a PC version would be worth it.
 
Even if people Pirated UT3, ITS AN ONLINE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kinda requires a key to play it online, WTF, if people did pirate it it was probably just to see how it runs on their PC, and to check out the short SP....
 
bonsai said:
Obviously it's a big enough percentage that they don't feel like their investment in a PC version would be worth it.
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I still think piracy is a cheap excuse. World of Warcraft is the best example as to why piracy is a good excuse to use when you create a horrible product like Epics last few games.

Wow has sold over 10 million copies on what some publishers call the "dead" pc platform. In addition, they have millions of active subscribers a month paying $15 each month to play. If you think piracy doesn't exist for Wow, just do a quick search for private servers, theres tons out there, and even several guides to show you how to run your own.

Hell forget wow. Diablo 2 battlechest and the Warcraft 3 battle chests still break the top 10 for pc game sales. Those games have been out for years, and are easly available on torrent sites. However, Blizzard continues to sell these games because when you release a quality product, then stand behind and support your product, your customers will stand behind you.

Epic should get off their asses, and not release total garbage. If they want to stop making PC games because they fail at game design and just want to make a quick dollar from consoles, thats fine. Good riddance. However I don't want to hear another cry baby story about how piracy ruined PC games, there a PC devs and publishers doing juuuusssstttttt fine.
 
I don't get this thread. Who actually cares about Gears of War?

I think about 9 people in the entire world likes the game.
 
Gears of War sucked, and the multiplayer was the worst shooter multiplayer of all time. UT3 was a failed attempt at changing a good thing when all they had to do was rehash the original UT.

Is Valve the only company that understands what PC gamers want? There is a market for competitive multiplayer FPS (Counter-Strike). There is a market for purely fun multiplayer FPS (Team Fortress 2). There is a market for storyline based single player FPS (Half-Life). There is a market for rehashed classics (CS:Source, Day of Defeat: Source, Half-Life: Source, etc). I don't know anyone who doesn't like at least one Valve game.
 
I like gears of war, even though I dislike cliffy B. Don't rag on a game just because you can't have it the way you want it. It was a good game for the xbox 360 and sold close to as many copies as there are xbox 360s. They didn't want to completely abandon the PC market even though the shift in paradigm was a more wise business decision so they gave you a port the first time and it didn't sell well on PC. Quit crying, most of you didn't buy the game anyway. And people do like it considering it came out over two years ago and there are still a lot of games on Xbox live with people playing competitively.
 
bonsai said:
Obviously it's a big enough percentage that they don't feel like their investment in a PC version would be worth it.
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If its so fucking obvious you post some numbers published by a neutral third party.

Its real easy for the PR guy (Are you the PR guy by chance?) for EPIC to say "Piracy is out of control" its a whole other thing to back up that claim with facts.

I see alot of tongue wagging and i see you taking it as if god himself had told you.

Bottom line is over the past few years the "Pirate" excuse has been a well known cover up for shitty games. Those of us that are serious PC gamers have known this for some time now, your welcome at any time to come over to the enlightened side and stop sticking up for a company that needs scapegoats to cover up thier fucked up products.
 
pfunkman said:
Bottom line is over the past few years the "Pirate" excuse has been a well known cover up for shitty games. Those of us that are serious PC gamers have known this for some time now, your welcome at any time to come over to the enlightened side and stop sticking up for a company that needs scapegoats to cover up thier fucked up products.
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So much rage over a video game. Read the full quote in context and you'll see he also talks about hardware being another reason for moving away from PCs.

Do you see the Xbox 360 as the main platform as opposed to the PC? During the whole Unreal time it was very much PC focused.

The PC right now is a fair amount different to what it was back in the day, with all the badly integrated video chips. Here's the problem right now; the person who is savvy enough to want to have a good PC to upgrade their video card, is a person who is savvy enough to know bit torrent to know all the elements so they can pirate software. Therefore, high-end videogames are suffering very much on the PC.

So piracy was a main point for you...

Right now, it makes sense for us to focus on Xbox 360 for a number of reasons. Not least PCs with multiple configurations and piracy.

But when the dust has settled, is there any possibility of Gears 2 on PC?

No.

Definitely not?

No.
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Cliffy B has always been an obnoxious, white knight.

I think he's second to Romero on the "asshole developer" scale.
 
I love how people keep going back to the old UT games selling well as a reference point.
Downloading large files, torrents, high speed internet increases, and even the market for PC games have changed a lot since then.
That's like complaining about GM making cars out of plastic rather than steel and referencing a car from the 70's. Times have changed and it's not like Epic is the only developer that's said this very same thing.
Keep living in denial world.
 
Domingo said:
Keep living in denial world.
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I fully acknowledge there's a certain level of denial on both sides of the fence, howeve it's just ridiculous (and hilarious) when the gaming community uses all these excuses (crappy quality, DRM, poor performance, etc) to justify pirating, then they cry foul when it comes back to bite them in the ass.

But please continue with the denial that pirating isn't affecting PC sales, it will only further the devaluation of the PC gaming industry.
 
Domingo said:
I love how people keep going back to the old UT games selling well as a reference point.
Downloading large files, torrents, high speed internet increases, and even the market for PC games have changed a lot since then.
That's like complaining about GM making cars out of plastic rather than steel and referencing a car from the 70's. Times have changed and it's not like Epic is the only developer that's said this very same thing.
Keep living in denial world.
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pc gaming has been pirated to death for years.it was even easier back in the day to hack and pirate pc games.
 
Domingo said:
I love how people keep going back to the old UT games selling well as a reference point.
Downloading large files, torrents, high speed internet increases, and even the market for PC games have changed a lot since then.
That's like complaining about GM making cars out of plastic rather than steel and referencing a car from the 70's. Times have changed and it's not like Epic is the only developer that's said this very same thing.
Keep living in denial world.
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What denial world? You act like piracy just got goin last year? As long as there have been PC games people have been pirating them. Hell even the old 8-bit C64 and Atari computers had pirate scenes/BBS's etc. Broadband might have higher adoption rates today because of availability and price, but ive had DSL since the late 90's and so have many others. Guess what, I didn't pirate UT2004 because it was a good game. I never bought or pirated the latests one because I heard it was shit and had no interest.

Somehow, stardock manages to make top sales lists WITH NO DRM whatsoever. WTF? How is this possible if everyone who uses a PC is a pirate?
 
jonneymendoza said:
pc gaming has been pirated to death for years.it was even easier back in the day to hack and pirate pc games.
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You can't seriously think that pirating was as rampant 10 years ago as it is today. The emergence of P2P software, torrents, public torrent trackers, and wide adoption of broadband have sent pirating figures soaring and it's moved from an underground hobby into the mainstream eye. It's also much more expensive for studios to develop games today, with A+ titles requiring teams of 50 or more people and costs reaching into the $50 million range (GTA4 cost almost $100 million). Titles need to sell a lot more copies now to recoup their investment than they did back then. Studios can't afford to just shrug off a few hundred thousand copies lost to pirates.
 
The problem is you can't always count them as losses.

Who's to say they were going to buy the game if they couldn't pirate it?

I honestly buy all my games now, the only thing I don't pirate... :) I like Steam a lot, if Cliffy put all the Epic games on there in a decent package for cheap, I guarantee thousands would buy it... Just because it was a good deal...
 
defiant007 said:
Its not coming to PC because PC users are savvy enough to know that you do not waste time or money on:

(a) shitty games designed to appeal primarily to a demographic of juvenile knuckle dragging dullards;
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Like half life and crysis and unreal and quake and battlefield and doom?

PC gamers as some kind of elites with higher capabilities for discerning make me laugh. Top selling pc games = sims. So lets caricature all PC gamers as housewives who like to play virtual dress up. AMIRITE???

Stupid generalization is stupid.
 
Blazestorm said:
The problem is you can't always count them as losses.

Who's to say they were going to buy the game if they couldn't pirate it?

I honestly buy all my games now, the only thing I don't pirate... :) I like Steam a lot, if Cliffy put all the Epic games on there in a decent package for cheap, I guarantee thousands would buy it... Just because it was a good deal...
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There IS an Epic package on Steam.
 
lobski said:
I don't get this thread. Who actually cares about Gears of War?

I think about 9 people in the entire world likes the game.
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I think you're probably right. The other 4,999,991 people who bought it needed a gears of war coaster, and didn't like the game at all.
 
Gears of war was a decent game it wasnt the best but it was something diffrent. The problem is tooooooo many PC "Gamers" only have the FPS and Strategy game mind set so of course anything that isnt in one of those two catagories instantly just sucks balls. personally I get tired of that type of thinking.

I don't deny piracy isnt a problem at all. But for me what is a problem is when some company decides to release a game for a certain console only. The problem there is people who did want to play the game cant, so wanting to play that game they decide to buy said console and a few other games. Then a year or two later release it for PC... and expect us to eat it up and sell just as many when they did on the initial console release??? Well... I already bought it for the XBOX 360, why the hell would I want to buy it on the PC now that you have released it so much later??

If they are going to release it on the PC then do it at the same time as the @#$!ing console release so that you generate level sales and give the consumers the choice, not force them to buy a console then later screw them over and release it for the thing they wanted in the first place. If more games were released like this then PC gaming would take off so much more because people have the choice and dont have to wait 6 months to 3 years for the PC port (Halo was a perfect example of this... dumb ass MS / Bungie lol).

I know I'll be buying Street Fighter 4 for PC and not for console just because it will retail for $20 cheaper than the consoles on release, and being that it is a PC game I dont have to worry about backwards compatability when a new console is released :) (which is the reason I primarily buy PC games, or sell off a console game when the PC port is released)

Now I know there are going to be a ton of people that hop on this and say keep your crappy console games off my PC all it does is screw my world up. Ok... thats a piss poor argument. More games released along side of console ports means more choices, more choices means more people buying, more people buying means more market growth, more market growth means more things come out and more focus is given to an area, more focuse means more manufacturers making accessories, hardware, games, everything which means more competition and lower prices due to this market getting flooded... which is good for everyone and there is no denying that. There is also no denying that PC games the vast majority of the time look a hell of a lot better then on a console.

anyway I've ranted a bit too much on this and need to stop lmao
 
Why is everyone getting so worked up? If you really believe that his games are all terrible (which several people have claimed) then you wouldn't care whether or not he releases it. Just let it go...
 
He hasn't made a good game in years. He out of touch and irrelevant. He's also, apparently, a fan boy.

UT3 sucked so bad...
 
bonsai said:
I fully acknowledge there's a certain level of denial on both sides of the fence, howeve it's just ridiculous (and hilarious) when the gaming community uses all these excuses (crappy quality, DRM, poor performance, etc) to justify pirating, then they cry foul when it comes back to bite them in the ass.

But please continue with the denial that pirating isn't affecting PC sales, it will only further the devaluation of the PC gaming industry.
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No, your in denial. You keep going on as though were all pirates and were not. In fact i dont remember anyone in this thread claiming they priated it or even support pirating it.

Your doing just like EPIC is and saying that everyone that didnt buy the damn thing pirated it. That is whats wrong with what epic is saying and whats wrong with your whole argument here.

Spaceman_Spiff said:
Why is everyone getting so worked up? If you really believe that his games are all terrible (which several people have claimed) then you wouldn't care whether or not he releases it. Just let it go...
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I dont see anyone getting worked up at all. I see a civil debate going on.

Where do you see people getting worked up?
 
nintari said:
I don't deny piracy isnt a problem at all. But for me what is a problem is when some company decides to release a game for a certain console only. The problem there is people who did want to play the game cant, so wanting to play that game they decide to buy said console and a few other games. Then a year or two later release it for PC... and expect us to eat it up and sell just as many when they did on the initial console release??? Well... I already bought it for the XBOX 360, why the hell would I want to buy it on the PC now that you have released it so much later??

If they are going to release it on the PC then do it at the same time as the @#$!ing console release so that you generate level sales and give the consumers the choice, not force them to buy a console then later screw them over and release it for the thing they wanted in the first place. If more games were released like this then PC gaming would take off so much more because people have the choice and dont have to wait 6 months to 3 years for the PC port (Halo was a perfect example of this... dumb ass MS / Bungie lol).
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If a game is simultaneously released on more than one platform, it either takes longer or it suffers in quality. It takes development hours, which have to come from somewhere, and with budgets getting tighter it often makes more sense to concentrate on the largest platform at first, then branch out afterwards. You've made some money on the initial release and can use that and your existing product to reach a wider audience. If they could make more money releasing on pc right away, they would, but the fact is that they simply can't.

As a gamer I would much rather have a quality product on one platform that expands to others later than either a rushed product or delayed one released on multiple platforms at once. You aren't in any way "forced" to buy a console, because you aren't entitled or required to play a game immediately after it comes out. If you'd like to, then sure, go for it...but if you want it on a platform coming later, then you'll have to wait.

That same entitlement is the crux of piracy troubles I think also, because in this day and age people feel entitled to get whatever they want right now. If you think the game is crappy then you shouldn't get to play it. If you use this as an excuse to pirate it, then you're just giving developers a stronger argument that piracy is hurting them, because there's no questionnaire to fill out when you download that torrent.
 
lmao... obviously these guys have never heard of MOD CHIPS

Sure, piracy is a lot more rampant on the PC, but it's not like nobody is going to buy the game. Besides, the associated costs with publishing a PC version of the game are far surpassed by the sales you'll gain from doing it, simply because porting the game is as easy as pie. If you want the game to sell well, put it on Steam in addition to retail.
 
bonsai said:
I fully acknowledge there's a certain level of denial on both sides of the fence, howeve it's just ridiculous (and hilarious) when the gaming community uses all these excuses (crappy quality, DRM, poor performance, etc) to justify pirating, then they cry foul when it comes back to bite them in the ass.

But please continue with the denial that pirating isn't affecting PC sales, it will only further the devaluation of the PC gaming industry.
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Im interested to know how you think a person with my reasoning fits into this mess? I dont pirate. I will download a demo to see if I like the game before I buy it. I know that if I like the game and I buy it, I am making an investment into the future game releases of that company. I bought GoW for the PC and enjoyed it. I was hoping to be able to do the same with GoW2.

Personally, I dont think Piracy is as rampant as most of the publishers are screaming about. I know many people who do pirate games. These people will play the game to see if its worth their time. Usually, they dont get more than an hour or two into the game before they realize it is total crap as many PC games are. These people basically have just saved themselves 30-50 bucks because they didnt buy the shitty game. So basically, the developer and publisher did not loose any money because they wouldn't have bought the shitty game anyway. They basically pirated what they consider to be a demo of the game. There is an argument to be made here though in regards to this kind of piracy and it is one that my friends and I occasionally discuss. Why even pirate a game just to check it out when you can do the same thing with a demo? Which is why I grab demos instead of pirating.


So, to an extent, I think cliffy had a bad hair day and his feel good meds wore off.
 
pfunkman said:
Your doing just like EPIC is and saying that everyone that didnt buy the damn thing pirated it.
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Yes, because that's exactly what I said. :rolleyes:

Kidfinger said:
So basically, the developer and publisher did not loose any money because they wouldn't have bought the shitty game anyway.
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Just because I wasn't going to buy a car, doesn't make it right to steal it. I realize that's not the same but you get the drift. Imagine there was no way to download those games or there isn't a demo, how many of those friends would have bought that game to check it out? Maybe a few? Well those are lost sales, and that's exactly how it worked back in the day before you had easy access to pirated copies. You bought some good games, and you bought some bad games that looked cool. In fact that's how every other non-digital consumer industry works. Now gamers want to try (play) nearly every game that comes out, and only (wrongfully) expect that they should only pay for the really good ones. I do believe that games should have a return policy, but that's another issue, and leads to a whole other problem with copying.

Regardless of whatever justification you want to make for pirating, and whether or not you believe publishers, it's affecting the industry and how developers approach the PC platform. This thread is only one of many examples of that. Obviously not everyone is a pirate, but it's also obvious that's it's a big enough problem that many companies are speaking out about it and making changes, with some leaving the PC entirely. And that isn't good for the longterm viability of the platform.
 
bonsai said:
You can't seriously think that pirating was as rampant 10 years ago as it is today. The emergence of P2P software, torrents, public torrent trackers, and wide adoption of broadband have sent pirating figures soaring and it's moved from an underground hobby into the mainstream eye. It's also much more expensive for studios to develop games today, with A+ titles requiring teams of 50 or more people and costs reaching into the $50 million range (GTA4 cost almost $100 million). Titles need to sell a lot more copies now to recoup their investment than they did back then. Studios can't afford to just shrug off a few hundred thousand copies lost to pirates.
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Some of us who were there 10 years ago remember exactly how easy it was.
Back then, alot of brick and mortars had return policies on opened games. Games were also much smaller then, and you didn't have to download 4-8gb torrents, but rather 400-600mb ISO's. Just because its easier now for every idiot on the intarwebs to download a torrent, doesn't mean piracy didn't happen. It did, and it wasn't *that* much harder. There were fewer PC users, but there were alot less idiots and script kiddies.
 
Monkey God said:
Some of us who were there 10 years ago remember exactly how easy it was.
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I was there too, it was easier in certain ways, it was even before CD rom checks were put in place, but it wasn't nearly as prevalent and before the PC gaming industry really took off. I used to swap floppies with friends all the time, but that was before broadband and how P2P made pirating popular. Hell, we "borrowed" out first copy of Doom from a friend. Now I can go to any torrent site and download any game I want from the past 10 years free of charge. Hell I can download 10 at the same time if I wanted. My circle of friends and their floppies wasn't anywhere near that big.
 
Monkey God said:
There were fewer PC users, but there were alot less idiots and script kiddies.
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..and then counter-strike came along! :p

The first and last Epic game I purchased was UT99. I buy all of my games and have 94 titles available to me on Steam. I wouldn't have bought UT3 because I played the demo and wasn't impressed, but I'm not going to pirate the game.

Bonsai, we've still yet to see you dig up an unbiased third-party source that has some pirating numbers to support your claim. Honestly, I'd like to see these numbers in either case just to know how bad pirating has really gotten.
 
FrozenLiquidity said:
Bonsai, we've still yet to see you dig up an unbiased third-party source that has some pirating numbers to support your claim. Honestly, I'd like to see these numbers in either case just to know how bad pirating has really gotten.
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Yeah, just keep closing your eyes, the problem will go away eventually.

Of course the developers who actually work in the industry have no clue what they're talking about. :rolleyes:
 
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