What is it with TF2?

Yeh...You can't exactly be clutch in TF2 can you?
Maybe you should stick with CS, where you can no scope 5 idiots in a row and go for defuse.
 
phide said:
It's just too bad so few people continue to play TFC these days whereas the original Counter-Strike is still numero uno (why?).
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dude exactly what I said 10 years ago.

TFC was superior to CS and somehow when it released everyone and their grandpa jumped on CS even though it's half as fun as TFC.

I STILL don't see why CS became popular it has 8 less classes less gameplay options and less fun.

It's because of the timeline when mainstream PC-gaming started popularizing.

TFC came out in 1999 and few people had gaming rigs even fewer with high-speed internet and only hardcore gamers spent cash for TFC and serious gaming.

Then in 2001-2003..PC and online gaming started mainstreaming at the same time CS released. The surge of new players didn't enjoy getting their asses handed to them in TFC from veterens w/ 2 year headstart so everyone started licking CS nuts up down sideways, EVEN THOUGH IT SUX compared and is way less fun.

lol thats how I see it :rolleyes: someone tell me i'm right I never got how people saw cs as funner.
 
I don't know why people are complaining about pyros so much. I see probably 3-4 pyros per team on the servers I play on, and that's about how many there should be.

Honestly the only problems I have with TF2 right now are heavies being sub-par compared to demo/pyro/soldier and spies are kinda outmatched by good engies generally.
 
Yeah...they nerf'd Spies even more by fixing the "glitch" where you can cloak right after you backstab someone...now there's a couple secs delay.
 
SouLXIV said:
LOL I have that same problem, I thought it was just vista.
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The looped minimising/maximising bug tends to happen for me when I've clicked another window while TF2 is loading, it tries to force focus back to TF2 yet for some reason loses it again and gets stuck in a loop.

Visec said:
dude exactly what I said 10 years ago.

TFC was unlimitled fun before CS came out. When CS released everyone and their frikin grandpa jumped on it even though CS is half as fun as TFC.

I STILL don't see why CS became popular it has 8 less classes less gameplay options and less fun.

It's got something to do with the timeline mainstream PC-gaming became popular.

TFC came out in '99 few people had gaming rigs, few had high-speed internet, only hardcore gamers spent cash on TFC and serious gaming.

Then in 2001-2003..PC and online gaming became mainstream, at the same time CS released. All these new players didn't enjoy getting their asses handed to them from TFC veterens w/ 2 year headstart so everyone started licking CS nuts up down sideways, EVEN THOUGH IT SUX and is less fun than TFC.

lol thats how I see it :rolleyes: someone tell me i'm right

tfc owns cs and i never understood how people could favor it over tfc it's just an ok game
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For something to be truly popular you need a good community, the backbone to which is a strong clan and pro player presence. CS is popular because people can get good at it quickly and pwn others, it has a very quick return of reward vs effort put in.

This is exactly what TF2 lacks, how well you're playing has no real bearing on whether you win or not unless the teams happen to be incredibly well balanced, which pretty much never happens.

I did a bit of experimenting last night, I predicted based on previous rounds and what players where at what team, how the end result of 5-6 matches of goldrush would turn out. I'm pretty good at it I got all but 1 right.

Question is: If you know you're going to lose from the start, whats the point in trying?

Might as well just run around as the scout not attacking people and just practicing your movement, or practice your rocket/nade jumping or something like that.

 
I know what you mean OP, yet I also wholly agree with many of the people here. TF2 is a game where its hard to find the right teamwork or you need to work hard to change the play of a team yourself. Now I host a small dedicated server for my friends and it seems to be a lot better when we can get 7 or 8 of us playing together. I still love the game and think the classes balance out each other nicely. Can't wait for the other upgrades though. :p
 
Join a clan - that way you get a regular flow of of matches with cooperating team mates.

Also, on public servers, your ability to single handedly reverse the fortunes of a losing team depends on your class. A demoman probably has the best hopes of doing this, especially on defense, since you can sticky up the point from a hidden spot.
Also, in publics, crits are another factor that can turn the tide, or at least kill off an enemy rush (when you're defending).

On offense, sometimes a single spy can allow a team of noobs to win. For example, if the spy goes straight to the final point and captures it before the opposing team can get back and set up. Or if the spy takes out a medic at just the right time, making the rest of the opposing team softer targets.

Other classes, such as the sniper or the heavy, are more dependent on cooperation from teammates for their efforts to be effective. On most maps a sniper won't do as much unless your teammates are distracting them, and a heavy also needs some support as well as a medic. Even an engineer needs some teammates to be around for his sentry to be fully effective (to stop un-ubered enemies from taking it out).
 
Yeah, most players don't really have a feel for when the opposing team is half dead, and then you should start pushing up to counter them. Sometimes, you have to communicate to your team, and be like. Ok, I'm going to take out their turrets, back me up guys. Follow me in. Move up. etc etc. If that doesn't work after a couple of tries, there's probably nothing you can do but weather the storm.

I joined up with a clan of really cool people (not insanely competitive jerks) that has made TF2 1000x more fun. One reason being because I can hop on one of our servers and find some consistency in player's abilities. I've tried playing on some of the pubs again, like drunken brawl, where I had started out playing at. I honestly got tired of playing very quickly. +1 for TF2 when you have chemistry with your teamates.
 
i dont like playing in pubs, i always try to play with a group of people i know. There is the ocation where a group of pub players work together but i just cut that all out and play with buddies and have a good time. I dont think its the games fault, it is called TEAM Fortress 2. CS is a lone wolf game you really dont have to play together to win as long as you can kill more of the other guy you win.
 
Visec said:
dude exactly what I said 10 years ago.

TFC was superior to CS and somehow when it released everyone and their grandpa jumped on CS even though it's half as fun as TFC.

I STILL don't see why CS became popular it has 8 less classes less gameplay options and less fun.

It's because of the timeline when mainstream PC-gaming started popularizing.

TFC came out in 1999 and few people had gaming rigs even fewer with high-speed internet and only hardcore gamers spent cash for TFC and serious gaming.

Then in 2001-2003..PC and online gaming started mainstreaming at the same time CS released. The surge of new players didn't enjoy getting their asses handed to them in TFC from veterens w/ 2 year headstart so everyone started licking CS nuts up down sideways, EVEN THOUGH IT SUX and is way less fun.

lol thats how I see it :rolleyes: someone tell me i'm right I never got how people saw cs as funner.
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I played TFC when it came out on my 56k with 250 - 300 pings and did it quite well. However I also played a little bit of CS and once they got rid of the bunny hopping madness and a few other bugs a good ammount of time. I enjoyed both because they had two different styles of gameplay, as they are two different games. CS had a lot of good team play with small squads watching each others back and such (definately server dependant).

TFC had a little of that but was lone wolfish in its own right. I played TFC heavily until 2002 I think it was when they killed it and the community killed it. I stopped before all I had were sour memories of a once wonderful game. CS:S it seems has been dropped by valve as well, most if its community has moved on. I dont play it much at all anymore since all my fav servers are gone.
 
Frostex said:
I tried to get back in to TF2 again over the last week or so and it's just not changed one iota.

I really enjoy this game but there is one massive issue that plagues the servers, the sheer lack of teamwork and the sheer stupidity of most players. I've been trying to put my finger on exactly what the problem with this game is, and I think I have it.

There's no relationship between skill/finnese and reward, in a game like CoD4, or UT, or Quake or CS or almost any other game out there today, if you get better you see an increase in reward for getting better, like you can take control points push back the enemy etc.

But not TF2, what reward you get is whether you're stuck on the team destined to win, or destined to lose, other than switching teams there's really nothing you can do to help boost your teams chances at winning, even if you do 90% of the work in taking out turrets, killing enemies etc you still cannot help bad players, it's impossible.

All I know is that I try my hardest to assault positions in this game, im always at the front lines, never have any support what so ever, doing all the work on my own, it's feels almost as if everyone elses W keys have been unbound and it's just not possible to move forward and help, it doesn't matter how slowly I take it, or how much I fall back and try and encourage people to move forward there seems to be this voodoo curse over everyone that just glues them to the spot.

The other irritating thing about this game is the stupid lack of balance between attack and defence, characters like the engineer and demoman make for almost impossible defences, and somehow I always end up stuck on the team where no one can work out how to get past it, so the same thing happen again and again...I have to switch from the random class Im enjoying, to the demoman, every...single...time...

Because when you need a job doing, you've bloody well gotta do it yourself, you just cant seem to actaully rely on anyone else to help, I have to go as the character I know I can reliable take out turrets with each time, no earining pyro unlocks for me, no way, gotta be the demoman everytime because if im not we're going to be running at the same unasailable possition over and over.

Its no wonder this absolutely great idea for a game only manage to scrape together slightly more players than DOD:S, what a massive waste of what could have been brilliant and timeless game.
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In other words, it's "old school" like back in the day. :D
 
Visec said:
dude exactly what I said 10 years ago.

TFC was superior to CS and somehow when it released everyone and their grandpa jumped on CS even though it's half as fun as TFC.

I STILL don't see why CS became popular it has 8 less classes less gameplay options and less fun.

It's because of the timeline when mainstream PC-gaming started popularizing.

TFC came out in 1999 and few people had gaming rigs even fewer with high-speed internet and only hardcore gamers spent cash for TFC and serious gaming.

Then in 2001-2003..PC and online gaming started mainstreaming at the same time CS released. The surge of new players didn't enjoy getting their asses handed to them in TFC from veterens w/ 2 year headstart so everyone started licking CS nuts up down sideways, EVEN THOUGH IT SUX and is way less fun.

lol thats how I see it :rolleyes: someone tell me i'm right I never got how people saw cs as funner.
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I agree. CS was always just run up to choke point and camp from what I saw. Way boring compared to TFC. Going down memory lane here, I went from TFC to Quake 2, which was like going from a planet to a galaxy. Damn, those were the days.
 
Frostex said:
Question is: If you know you're going to lose from the start, whats the point in trying?

Might as well just run around as the scout not attacking people and just practicing your movement, or practice your rocket/nade jumping or something like that.
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Dude, after all the TF2 whining coming from you, I have come to the conclusion that there is one of these two possibilities:

1). You are nowhere near as good as you think.
2). You are playing on some shitty pub servers in whatever Crown territory you live in.

There are a ton of great pub servers with awesome ad-hoc teams, as far as I can see. I play medic a ton and a lot of times I will assist multiple players on a breakout to winning. Teamwork is the name of the game and if you are playing with the tards you will not have fun. Try to branch out to custom maps and games, specifically, warpath, orange_x, and castle.

Furthermore, the Steam community is built right in to TF2. Add the good people you are playing with as friends. Then, try to get them all together as a team one night. Dominate, rinse, repeat. It's a game, not rocket surgery. :p
 
1) I am way better than most players, I have no trouble killing anyone in a 1v1 scenario, I can even take down multiple enemies on my own, I very rarely see anyone else being able to take out turrets on their own when assaulting against them.

Judge for yourself - http://steamcommunity.com/id/princess_frosty/stats/TF2

2) I play on completely random servers, I filter by not showing empty or full servers, or ones with passwords, and I pick the first best pinging server thats mostly full, as such I play on a wide veriety of servers, they all have the same problem.

I think if you have to find the "right" type of server for a good match, it's a failure as a game.
 
You mean people play TF2 to win? WTF? TeamFortress is all about having fun. At least from my point of view. I win some, lose some, stalemate others. On our server we'll get a lot of good teamwork, and CP maps can take hours as each team is pushing / defending. It gets lopsided once in a while when one team is mostly having fun and the other team is "serious" (screw that). I just play to have fun, usually do fairly well, and yes, one good player can make a difference. I've helped turn the tide just by doing sneaky fun stuff and annoying the hell out of the other team. Sentries in nasty spots, dispensers as decoys, teleports in odd places (again, a decoy). Or my favorite is running into the other cap point over and over as an engineer trying to build a sentry. The other team will spend so much time dealing with me that they forget that I have team-mates ;)

Keep looking for a server that you like and stick with it. We get regulars on ours which makes it nice (a few have ended up joining our community, others just keep playing and having a good time). Then again if you dont' like the game, don't play it.

 
The problem isn't completely that I have to win, I can have fun if it's a close game and we lost, although yes I do like to win especially when I've put a lot of effort into kicking arse and playing well.

I find the biggest irritation is that I'm always left attacking on my own, I seem to be the only one willing to put themselves on the front line, you see too many snipers at the back, too many soliders strafing out and firing then strafing back into cover, rather than actually attempting to push foward they're happy to sit in the middle ground popping shots at the other team.

That means when running out to push the cart the last few meters in goldrush, or cap the last CP in a CP map, chances are you'll be on your own, fighting a good portion of their team by yourself. It's the good players making sacrafices to run out and take out the enemies primary defence against insurmountable odds that gets the win most of the time. But when you clear out 3 Sentries, and 5 people and die, and your team just sits there, still popping in/out of cover to fire rockets it makes me want to RAGE. By the time you respawn adn get alllll the way back to the front lines the enemy has built their turrets back up to level 3 and essentially your sacrafice was for nothing.

Having bad team mates means the better players fight harder odds.

If I have 2 people beside me on the front lines they're going to die easily, and being a good player I'm left alone to fight the majorety of their team on my own, however if there's me and say 6 other people at the front line, then we're talking! It's not even a question of skill, even if its 6 bad players at least I dont have to take the brunt of all the enemy fire, I can take approx 1/6th of it, all it takes is people to move forward and push up, just for once I wish peopel would do that and forget about how many times they've died or if they're going to die.
 
everyone let frosteh win if you see him on a server, so he won't make any more of these threads :p
 
Frostex, come play on the uberium server, 91.192.208.22:27017, all the people with "Ub." in front of their names have mics. You'll find plenty of people using voice chat and cooperating as a team. (I'm on there, username Ub.Genbanks)
 
Heh... snipers... How does that saying go... "You Can't Cap a point through a Scope". Granted, they are useful in a support role, covering the team as they attempt to cap, or bringing the intel home. We tried a few new maps on our server last night, one of them was a "western" version of Orange X. It looked great, nice work done to it. But damn... out of 20 players, 10 to 15 were snipers. Everyone else was a scout. Was annoying as hell.

That was where I experienced the "where the hell is my team". After a bit, we ended up with more rounded team, but it was horrible for a while. I've actually pulled the map from rotation... lol. I hate snipers. and scouts. I'll still play both on occasion but primarily I play Engineer or Medic, followed by Soldier and Pyro. Starting to play Heavy more... it's fun whne you have a good medic helping you out.

If you wanna try a mostly good server (no, it's not perfect) -- 66.45.163.42 "Seattle-T3-HOOD-TF2". We pretty much only run custom maps, and will occasionally put some stock ones into rotation. We have the map packs on the site (or at least links) and will be weeding out some that we've tried and didn't care for as a group (with feed back from non-clan members).

Other have said it, but it does make a difference if you are playing with peeps you know. Trick is finding the right group to be a part of.

 
Wait a minute, there's a goal and objective? I treat it as team deathmatch... sorry, my bad. Join a clan maybe?
 
I am with Grimmda, I don't play TF2 to be good at it or to accomplish anything other than pure entertainment and some stress relief.

I couldn't care less whether the team I am on wins or loses as long as I get to shoot some folks, get blown up myself in the most spectacular way, and just have some good LOLs.

IMHO some of the best moments in TF2 are when folks who take the game too seriously start talking:
- "You guys are the worst team ever!"
- "Why isn't anyone talking?"
- "OMG, OMG, get him, get him ...., OMG you guys SUCK!"
- "WTF, ENGINEER?!?!"

Last one is my personal favorite and can often be heard after I placed a teleporter entrance close to the spawn, and the teleporter exit right next to it. ;)

Live a little, have some fun, in the end it's all just zeros and ones and none of it matters.
 
somecallmeTim said:
You mean people play TF2 to win? WTF? TeamFortress is all about having fun. At least from my point of view. I win some, lose some, stalemate others. On our server we'll get a lot of good teamwork, and CP maps can take hours as each team is pushing / defending. It gets lopsided once in a while when one team is mostly having fun and the other team is "serious" (screw that). I just play to have fun, usually do fairly well, and yes, one good player can make a difference. I've helped turn the tide just by doing sneaky fun stuff and annoying the hell out of the other team. Sentries in nasty spots, dispensers as decoys, teleports in odd places (again, a decoy). Or my favorite is running into the other cap point over and over as an engineer trying to build a sentry. The other team will spend so much time dealing with me that they forget that I have team-mates ;)

Keep looking for a server that you like and stick with it. We get regulars on ours which makes it nice (a few have ended up joining our community, others just keep playing and having a good time). Then again if you dont' like the game, don't play it.

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I have more fun when I'm winning. What's so wrong with a competitive spirit anyway? Playing to have fun sounds like a mixture of loser talk and "I suck at the game" talk.
 
SouLXIV said:
LOL I have that same problem, I thought it was just vista.
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Dont touch your mouse after you start the game.. If you click a button it go's all wonky like you describe.. Wait for the menu before you click the mouse at all.
 
krameriffic said:
I have more fun when I'm winning. What's so wrong with a competitive spirit anyway? Playing to have fun sounds like a mixture of loser talk and "I suck at the game" talk.
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I've been gaming for a loooong time (yes I'm old) -- I've competed, it's fun, I enjoyed the hell out of league play, regular matches, scrims, ladders, and so on. I've moved on from that now. Yes, when you are winning, it does tend to be more fun. But I treat games for what they are... games. I like to have fun. If my team sucks and I'm losing, dam it all to hell I'm gonna go out there and see what shit I can stir up. Loser talk? Whatever. I'm "average" at best, and I admit that. Never have been the "uber leet pwner" but can hold my own. Maybe because I play a variety of games, so I don't really get all that good. Well, there was UT.. damn I played the hell out of that online and did really well - top 1 or 2 most of the time.

There is nothing wrong with competitive spirit. I find I have more when I'm having fun. I've helped the team come back from the edge of losing by having FUN and not giving a shit if I won or lost -- giving it my best and that is what competitive spirit is all about. Competitive spirit is not giving up, nor is it running the other team into the ground for a quick victory. Is my best as good as yours? Probably not, but I'll game with you anytime.. maybe learn something from you too! But I refuse to lose sight of what games are -- games. Win or lose, if I played my best, played with good sportsmanship, then it was a good round / map / what have you.

I'll get people on my TF2 server that take the game waaaaay to seriously. They bitch, moan, complain, whine, etc about everyone not being as good as them and how the map should be over in "x" minutes when you use "blah blah" strategy. There are other servers for that. We like to foster an environment where the n00bs and the experienced players can all play together. We don't run off the n00bs, because they may end up being great players, or a part of our community. I've found that by playing with and against people that are better than me, I get better, and I learn. And that, in the end, makes the game "moar better gooder".

Hope that all makes sense... :) (us old guys and our words...hehe)



 
Frostex, I'm not sure if you remember, but we played a couple times together when tf2 was released. What's your steam id?

Your thoughts sound nearly identical to mine, and I'm stuck as demo 95% of the time because I need to clear sentries for my team to advance.
 
Steam ID right now is Princess_Frosty, I dunno what the number is, I rarely change it in any case. I recall playing a few games, I think it was cos I was in the [H] steam group?
 
Thuleman said:
I am with Grimmda, I don't play TF2 to be good at it or to accomplish anything other than pure entertainment and some stress relief.

I couldn't care less whether the team I am on wins or loses as long as I get to shoot some folks, get blown up myself in the most spectacular way, and just have some good LOLs.

IMHO some of the best moments in TF2 are when folks who take the game too seriously start talking:
- "You guys are the worst team ever!"
- "Why isn't anyone talking?"
- "OMG, OMG, get him, get him ...., OMG you guys SUCK!"
- "WTF, ENGINEER?!?!"

Last one is my personal favorite and can often be heard after I placed a teleporter entrance close to the spawn, and the teleporter exit right next to it. ;)

Live a little, have some fun, in the end it's all just zeros and ones and none of it matters.
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It's a bit selfish to join a heavily team orientated game where others might be playing competatively and arse about, if you want to do that a DM game would be better suited.

Sounds like a team killers reasoning to me, as long as I'm having fun, screw everyone else.
 
IF ONLY IT HAD OLD TF GAMEPLAY WITH TF2 GRAPHICS!

DOD:S IS NOW RUINED AS WELL!



Sorry I did that so it would be read.
 
^ Yeah DoD was decent, but it never kept my attention for very long. I actually loved TFC, was a really fun game. I recently went back to TF2, the game is still a blast.
 
aznpxdd said:
You guys really think Pyro's are overpowered?

A good soldier, demo and heavy still eat them for breakfast.
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Not demo, yes to soldier or heavy.

Demo is much harder to target pyro at close range. At medium range, in a narrow hallway, you're still OK.
 
Frostex said:
It's a bit selfish to join a heavily team orientated game where others might be playing competatively and arse about, if you want to do that a DM game would be better suited.

Sounds like a team killers reasoning to me, as long as I'm having fun, screw everyone else.
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No offense, but it sounds to me like you haven't actually been playing TF2 on random servers much. I like tactics and teamplay as much as the next guy, but most of the time random servers are populated by random people, and most often no one really cares about anything much other than to just blow some stuff up.

If I join a server where there is a clear effort to get stuff done as a group, then sure, I won't sabotage that effort and I'll do my best to assist, but if it's just random guys, then sure, I'll have some LOLs with teleporters (still have useful guns and vending machines).

IMHO it's basically impossible to have a truly competitive team play in TF2 unless you run your own server and limit access to it to people you know (i.e. clan server). As soon as random folks are allowed to join playing the game "proper" goes out the window.
 
Frostex - no, that IP for the Uberium server I gave you is for a UK server. I live in the UK.
 
OK thanks, I'll add it and stop by, if it's tonight it wont be for long but sunday definatley.
 
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