Monarchcomputer using customers money as a float, anyone have recent experince

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Treetops said:
I haven't done business with them in years, and they don't owe me money, so I can admit I may see things differently I they had my cash. But you can't just say someone is going out of business when you have no idea if thats true because in his position he can put people out of jobs who really are just employees who aren't decision makers and don't have your money. How angry is he?
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Kyle does have power :D However once again, are you still oblivious to the fact that there have been many times in the past where computer stores have gone under and pulled the EXACT sequence of events as Monarch is doing. I'm not out to slam monarch, but as a person who has been ripped off at other online sites I feel for those who are getting scammed. Also there is a TON of support for what has been going on at Monarch, we all didn't just wake up and decide "Oh yeah were gonna make sure Monarch goes out of busniess" :rolleyes:

In your dreams
 
I don't work for Monarch. I'm sure the admin can verify this by my email address. I understand they may suck terribly. I just think we need to stick to things we know and speculate less. By all mean please let me know if they go out of business. Send me a personal notice. But until then lets quit pretending to know things that we don't.
 
Kyle is right to have posted this
The only experience I have had with Monarch was a horrible shitty one. I ordered a PC before leaving for college, and I had them pre-assemble it, as I had no time to do it before school started. I ordered it about 2 months before school started, yet somehow they charged me the very second I ordered, AND gave me the run around for over a month. Cutting the story short, I posted about it on resellerratings, gave them a horrible rating and wrote a huge rant about it, they called me the next day, gave me free overnight shipping and knocked $200 off my order in exchange for me removing my review/altering it. However, after hearing what has transpired now, all I can say is that I am even more angry, especially after having spent money on their tech-support services, which ARE non-existent mind you. I really hope theres some way to sue these people and get some of my money back. :(
 
They owed me on an RMA from earlier in the year. It was supposedly good for a year, when the rumors a couple of months ago became more serious, I looked around (finally finding something I could use as the their "Parts" section slowly atrophied) and ordered a few things. I had to apply my RMA to the order and then pay for it, which they would then refund the RMA credit against. That's dodgy to start with but I went with it in order to not those that money. The next day they had the great deal on the e6400. While I had heard of people having crappy service, I was still getting regular emails from them, so I thought "in for a penny, in for a pound" and ordered another part from them. The processor order that didn't have the RMA attached to it went right through and I received the part in just a couple days. Still nothing on the first order which had the RMA on it but they had just come through, right?

Wrong. I guess because they were going to have to come up with money, I never heard anything on the RMA order after the "processing" email. When I saw that they were stiffing distributors, I knew there was no coming back from that. I disputed and got my order money back but I know that RMA money has gone the way of the dodo. While it sucks, it wasn't as much as some here, so I should count myself lucky, I guess. My sympathies to those who lost hard-earned money.

Dealing with far-off companies would seem to be a risky business normally but given our experience buying from the far-flung screwdriver empire, people have become comfortable ordering this way. Some people don't remember a time before this was common practice in the computer industry. I am shocked by this, not so much in that they are ripping people off but how safe this commerce feels and how integrated it is to our way of doing things. While certainly not of the same scale, it appears this is as close to an Enron-level event we have had in this industry in long time. It speaks of how good things are in general that this is such a rare occurance.
 
Treetops said:
I don't work for Monarch. I'm sure the admin can verify this by my email address. I understand they may suck terribly. I just think we need to stick to things we know and speculate less. By all mean please let me know if they go out of business. Send me a personal notice. But until then lets quit pretending to know things that we don't.
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Would you like to know if they go out of business BEFORE or AFTER your refund? Hence the post on HARDOCP and this (and MANY other) discussions....
 
But its just speculation. We don't know anything new. That doesn't sound like front page news to me.
 
Treetops said:
But its just speculation. We don't know anything new. That doesn't sound like front page news to me.
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Good thing you aren't the Editor.

This issue could affect many people and it's something that should be brought to light.
 
Treetops said:
But its just speculation. We don't know anything new. That doesn't sound like front page news to me.
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Speculating or not, we know a LOT about Monarch's current business practices. www.resellerratings.com, dozens of threads just like this one all over the internet, personal experinces, etc all tell that you can't trust Monarch.

If it quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, and looks like a duck...well, its probably a freak'n duck, now isn't it?
 
So I guess we should stop tornado watches, because until one touches down, you don't want to know about it? This has been going on for *months* and a fair number of people who didn't have any idea of the troubles the company were having are now out hundreds of dollars. I am out hundreds of dollars. I knew and wasn't able to extract the funds they owed me in time. What about the people who didn't know? It may be the case that this should have been front page news sooner, not later. A "Trouble at Monarch" story might have saved some people lots of time, trouble, and money.
 
I'm sure it does effect many people, but are you telling me that the people that read these forums aren't already familiar with the woes and problems with Monarch? We can and should all share our experiences, albeit bad or good, so the public can make an informed decision of where to buy and avoid potential downfalls. I agree with all that. But the moderator should stay neutral and not speculate. Are we to assume that this forum administrator would tell you if NewEgg owed them money? This seems like personal and privileged information.
If any journalist put a story on the front page of a newspaper that a company was going out of business and they weren't then that journalist certainly would lose his job and the paper could be held legally responsible. I guess I'm just a little old fashioned and may not understand how this is different but I'm just used to some journalistic integrity. .
 
It sure does sound like Monarch is going under. What is happening is a familiar course for a business that can not get enough money in the door to get parts out the door.

A similar thing happened to a company that made turbo kits and a few other parts for the Scion tC. They started out okay and eventually they had many orders from people. The problem came when they wanted to expand their business and offer more products. Shipments started to take a while and some people who had preorders for months did not get refunds for a long time. They were an active part of the forum, however, and they would help people with problems, even if it was someone who bought a competitors kit.

They looked like they were going under until they found someone who invested in them. They finally got the money needed to refund customers and to pay bills. The thing is, they needed an investor with a good amount of money in order to keep going and expand business. Everything is going good with them once again.

This is actually part of being in business. I am sure no one at Monarch wants to quit what they are doing. The thing is, due to how businesses in general collect money, the bills for the suppliers come in before the payment from the customers. It is a delicate balancing act and only takes one mistake (like trying to expand to early) to throw it all off.
 
If my email address shows that I work for a different computer company then it would be a direct violation of my employee contract to work for another one, and that I work for their competition is a fairly good indication that I'm unbiased.

Speaking of this, I've said my share and should probably get back to work. Thanks for hearing my piece.
 
Treetops said:
I'm sure it does effect many people, but are you telling me that the people that read these forums aren't already familiar with the woes and problems with Monarch? We can and should all share our experiences, albeit bad or good, so the public can make an informed decision of where to buy and avoid potential downfalls. I agree with all that. But the moderator should stay neutral and not speculate. Are we to assume that this forum administrator would tell you if NewEgg owed them money? This seems like personal and privileged information.
If any journalist put a story on the front page of a newspaper that a company was going out of business and they weren't then that journalist certainly would lose his job and the paper could be held legally responsible. I guess I'm just a little old fashioned and may not understand how this is different but I'm just used to some journalistic integrity. .
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I don't think Kyle will bite for flamebait...but i will!

First, a lot of people did not know of Monarch's current problems. If Kyle didn't post it, and I didn't have problems with them in the past month, I probably wouldn't know about it. If DELL pulled this crap with all of its customers, you bet your arse that all of the major news media would be on it.

Second, re-read the front page post:

"Monarch Computer Bites the Dust?

Monarch Computer seems to have fallen on some hard times in 2006. They were not too happy with us when we evaluated a system of theirs back in May. They pledged then to fix all their support issues repeatedly, but we never saw that happen. We then saw constant complaints about Monarch’s customer service in our forums and at that time we decided to end their advertising contract with HardOCP. It just did not feel right telling our readers to rely on Monarch any more. After that we heard rumors of them going bankrupt, but those rumors could not be substantiated. And finally this week Monarch is not answering phones or returning many of their customers’ emails. Here is what Monarch had to say when asked when asked for an official statement on the condition of their business:

I emailed the owner and legal for the answers to your below questions regarding the recent issues at Monarch so hang on and I will contact you with an official update ASAP.

That is certainly not a good sign and no reply as to the state of your business is surely scary for customers looking for support. I think most of the people that have had issues with Monarch are just about out of patience. We will let you know what else transpires."

Where does Kyle say that MONARCH IS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS?
 
Exactly. Its a question marked headline about the uncertain state of their business. It isn't stating a fact, it's asking a question that needs to be answered and alerting people to the condition of the business, which as far as I know is still accepting orders through their website. Chances seem to be good that anyone sending them money will not get their stuff and will have to take strident measures to recover their money, if at all possible. People need to know.
 
DogChainX said:
I don't think Kyle will bite for flamebait...but i will!

First, a lot of people did not know of Monarch's current problems. If Kyle didn't post it, and I didn't have problems with them in the past month, I probably wouldn't know about it. If DELL pulled this crap with all of its customers, you bet your arse that all of the major news media would be on it.

Second, re-read the front page post:

"Monarch Computer Bites the Dust?

Monarch Computer seems to have fallen on some hard times in 2006. They were not too happy with us when we evaluated a system of theirs back in May. They pledged then to fix all their support issues repeatedly, but we never saw that happen. We then saw constant complaints about Monarch’s customer service in our forums and at that time we decided to end their advertising contract with HardOCP. It just did not feel right telling our readers to rely on Monarch any more. After that we heard rumors of them going bankrupt, but those rumors could not be substantiated. And finally this week Monarch is not answering phones or returning many of their customers’ emails. Here is what Monarch had to say when asked when asked for an official statement on the condition of their business:

I emailed the owner and legal for the answers to your below questions regarding the recent issues at Monarch so hang on and I will contact you with an official update ASAP.

That is certainly not a good sign and no reply as to the state of your business is surely scary for customers looking for support. I think most of the people that have had issues with Monarch are just about out of patience. We will let you know what else transpires."

Where does Kyle say that MONARCH IS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS?
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in one of his posts a couple pages back. he implies, but doesnt directly say
 
Treetops said:
Speaking of this, I've said my share and should probably get back to work. Thanks for hearing my piece.
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Please do. I will tell you that they are headed towards the grave. I will tell you they are in more debt to bigger fish than the [H]. I will tell you that several of those companies have pretty much written them off as being able to pay their bills.

Say what you want, but please before you do, spend some of your time actually researching the situation. This thread alone contains posts from everyone from screwed over users to ex-monarch employees, to admins from other sites posting about their dealings. If you do your research and you still come to the same conclusions, then your name (treetops) is appropriate because your head is apparently in the clouds.

People need to be warned that there are potential problems, to get out now while they can. $500 isn't alot of money to some, but others have saved months to use the money to purchase a new computer for schoool or for their kids. You would deprive them of not knowing the full story, that it isn't "news worthy". Have you watched or read the news lately...how many stories are less relevant than this....Quite A Few. People aren't losing money or getting screwed because Corsair just released a supersized jump drive or because AMD announces a new processor...no people are getting screwed through the efforts of a company that was once a sponsor for this website among others. You want to see a site owner that is more involved in the situation, go over to overclockers forums, he got fed up with Monarch's crap..so much so he banned the rep.
 
jcll2002 said:
nah, i called the owner(his brother at least). he knows that things aren't doing so well.

I only say i feel bad because

1) i've "known" the upper management of the company for a few months and have grown to like them

2) I had good experiences but I too just recently had problems with them with credit. I did RMAs through them. They would always overnight packages and never had me pay shipping. The only thing is it took me 1.5 months to get a credit on one of my RMAs. I have another RMA i just recently shipped out the 28th of october. I sitll havent gotten a credit on that.

Long story short, I am starting to notice a difference in the company.

I asked him if I could get deals on the p5b deluxe, and e6400 but he interestingly said that they cant sell them to me because they are focusing more on just the systems, not on parts. (only a select few components they stopped selling through parts).
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The sad thing is, even Monarchs closest supporters like jcll2002 have been burned. While I have not seen the original invoices, jcll2002's father has e-mailed me that he's allegedly out $500 after his son ordered some merchandise at Monarch.

It's very sad. In August, jcll2002 RMAed two items- a power supply and motherboard. MonarchComputers said that they would refund the credit as soon as they receive the defective items. THEY HAVE NOT seen anything. (I have sent his father an email asking if they had proof of the item arriving back at Monarch for the RMA)

While this isn't as bad as Monarch owing another of our members $2196 that they held his money captive for weeks (he cancelled the order roughly 48hours after he placed the order, he then received a return credit transaction number, then the seemingly month long wait began to recuperate his 2 grand.

While this other member finally got his 2 grand back after initiating a credit card charge-back, I suggested to jcll2002's father that the charge-back might be his only option of remedy if he cannot get his $500 back (subject to verifying Monarch received the RMA items back) (or a product replacement from Monarch if applicable)

Monarch biting the hands of their sole few supporters could be a sign that things are rotten in Denmark. Perhaps the pretty Monarch Butterfly has morphed into a blood sucking vampire bat.
 
Silversink said:
Perhaps the pretty Monarch Butterfly has morphed into a blood sucking vampire bat.
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Thank you, you just gave me an idea for the next halloween..the blood sucking vampire monarch employee costume...that is sure to strike fear into the heart of every tech nerd, distributor, website owner, and credit card company agent.
 
I too, had to initiate a charge-back to get a refund for a cancelled order I placed in early October with Monarch. They showed in stock for a HSF I ordered, but after two weeks and no shipment, I called and cancelled the order. They said it would take two weeks to process the refund.

It never happened.

So, I initiated a charge-back, and have the money back into my card account now. I don't think they would have EVER processed the refund, since it has been almost two MONTHS since I asked for the cancellation. And no word at all from them.

So long, Monarch. You were good while you lasted. Hope your employees don't get too burned by the closure, but well...
 
I ordered a PC from them in the summer of 2004 and besides a few minor technical glitches they sent it to me in a timely manner and had decent support. About a month ago I started pricing a new PC and boy was a I surprised to read all the issues people are having them on these forums and on resellerratings. Thank goodness for the internet or I would have pissed away thousands of dollars on them. Tomorrow I am going to call Overdrive PC and order my new system thanks to the articles I have read about them here. I sympathize with all the people that are still being screwed over by them.
 
Silversink said:
The sad thing is, even Monarchs closest supporters like jcll2002 have been burned. While I have not seen the original invoices, jcll2002's father has e-mailed me that he's allegedly out $500 after his son ordered some merchandise at Monarch.

It's very sad. In August, jcll2002 RMAed two items- a power supply and motherboard. MonarchComputers said that they would refund the credit as soon as they receive the defective items. THEY HAVE NOT seen anything. (I have sent his father an email asking if they had proof of the item arriving back at Monarch for the RMA)

While this isn't as bad as Monarch owing another of our members $2196 that they held his money captive for weeks (he cancelled the order roughly 48hours after he placed the order, he then received a return credit transaction number, then the seemingly month long wait began to recuperate his 2 grand.

While this other member finally got his 2 grand back after initiating a credit card charge-back, I suggested to jcll2002's father that the charge-back might be his only option of remedy if he cannot get his $500 back (subject to verifying Monarch received the RMA items back) (or a product replacement from Monarch if applicable)

Monarch biting the hands of their sole few supporters could be a sign that things are rotten in Denmark. Perhaps the pretty Monarch Butterfly has morphed into a blood sucking vampire bat.
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The sad part is, a CC agent denied our request of a chargeback. Upon your last email, we will try again and again.
 
Wow...

So, back to the problems...

So, I got an email earlier, posted on page 12 of this thread.

Jason said they only had 1 Lian Li V2100 left (They shipped out the other half of my order to someone else, the bastards), and to give him an idea as to what would be comparable.

So, I told him that I wanted ONE Lian Li V1100, either the Plus or the Plus II, I didn't care at this point.

So, he emailed me back and told me that he's shipping out 2 V1100 Plus II's, not one V2100 and one V1100...WTF

And I have now recieved my tracking for a package of 50.4 lbs

But, I have recieved shipping information, and I bluffed and I win. I told them that if I didn't hear from someone by last night, I was notifying the FTC and everything...So I sent 2 emails today stating that I am beginning the process of filing with the FTC..Then I got an email couple hours later!

Also, since they "technically" aren't shipping my original order, can I call my bank and have them get the money back from the original order, or is that fraud? LOL..I'm kidding....I would never stoop to their level...But it would be funny if someone did that! HAHAH

Oh yea, I paid $139.99 plus the shipping for the V2100's..Am I still getting a good deal?
 
BrinNutz said:
Wow...

So, back to the problems...

So, I got an email earlier, posted on page 12 of this thread.

Jason said they only had 1 Lian Li V2100 left (They shipped out the other half of my order to someone else, the bastards), and to give him an idea as to what would be comparable.

So, I told him that I wanted ONE Lian Li V1100, either the Plus or the Plus II, I didn't care at this point.

So, he emailed me back and told me that he's shipping out 2 V1100 Plus II's, not one V2100 and one V1100...WTF

And I have now recieved my tracking for a package of 50.4 lbs

But, I have recieved shipping information, and I bluffed and I win. I told them that if I didn't hear from someone by last night, I was notifying the FTC and everything...So I sent 2 emails today stating that I am beginning the process of filing with the FTC..Then I got an email couple hours later!

Also, since they "technically" aren't shipping my original order, can I call my bank and have them get the money back from the original order, or is that fraud? LOL..I'm kidding....I would never stoop to their level...But it would be funny if someone did that! HAHAH

Oh yea, I paid $139.99 plus the shipping for the V2100's..Am I still getting a good deal?
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pshh you could have paid $5 and it would have been an a$$ deal just because of the fact that you had to deal with their BS
 
jcll2002 said:
pshh you could have paid $5 and it would have been an a$$ deal just because of the fact that you had to deal with their BS
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Very, Very true..but, I didn't and I had to put up with their BS...So, is it still a decent deal?

Now I'm really pissed..I didn't realize I wasn't getting a full tower anymore...I'm going to be definitely getting some...somehow
 
YES - $140 for a ~$230 case. The lowest I can recall (apart from an MIR deal maybe) is around $200. You got a damn good deal - assuming you DO end up getting it (them?). I damn near bit a couple weeks ago when I saw the 2000's for $100. But knowing things weren't rosy in Monarch-land, and now the events of the past week or so, I'm glad I didn't. I can't afford to be used as a credit float for a boat that's going under - not with the holiday buying season here especially. I'd rather wait and pay ~$200 for piece of mind that I will get such a case (incident free!) from Newegg, P-PC's, etc..

Such a shame to see them go down this road. I spent $700+ back in Jan. in the Opteron 165 craze - got the 7800gt/NF41 combo and a HD as I recall. And while they did take a day or two longer to actually ship out than they should have, I had no other problems (same shitty OEM HD packing as Newegg though :(). I liked going through them, because being a SoCal resident I get to pay state taxes on everything I purchase from the likes of Newegg; if Monarch goes down that's one less sales tax free e-tailer I have to choose from.
 
I really hate to see all this. I used to buy quite a bit through Monarch and always had good luck with them. I actually liked them just as much as Newegg except that I had to pay state sales tax since I'm a Georgia resident. :( They seemed like pretty nice guys as well as I got to meet a couple of them at the AMD Reality Check event a few years back in Atlanta. Shit happens and all but it really sucks how they are doing their customers now. :mad: Looks like they are near the end now.
 
Treetops said:
But its just speculation. We don't know anything new. That doesn't sound like front page news to me.
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Let's see...

Large number of people who are having trouble getting credited for orders never received, and their cards charged the moment the order was placed (which shouldn't be happening; you should charge when an order ships). Many of these people's cards were charged despite their order not even being in stock. Some of these people were informed over the phone that the item WAS in stock when they ordered, but were told days later that it was not.

Increasing numbers of people who have RMA-ed product and either never received a replacement product, or gotten their money refunded.

A company who removes all complaints from their own forums, even legitimate RMA status requests. Finally, all forums are shut down.

A company whose phone response has slipped further and further, until finally, no-one is answering the company phones at all. No sales, tech. support, nothing. Yet it appears they may be keeping their website at least partially up (some links are returning strange errors) so they can keep accepting online sales.

A company who started out with excellent Resellerratings (resellerratings.com) but has seen a huge downward spike in the past six months, and possibly as long as a year.

One of these signs by itself might be nothing; all of them together signifies a business that is in dire straits. Trust me; I worked for a mom-n-pop PC shop for three and a half years (I left a year to a year and a half before it went belly up) and I know the signs. If Monarch isn't going out of business, it is likely they'll enter bankruptcy protection to get out from what they're under, though this is far harder what with newer bankruptcy laws. We had one client company do just this when I was at the mom-n-pop shop, and change their name, leaving us owed five to ten grand.

Don't kid yourself. One of these symptoms is a warning sign. All of them together is one huge red flag.
 
QUOTE FROM OCFORUMS

"spread the word..i went to monarch computer and talked with the guys there. their front doors are locked and there is a sign on it saying that they are closed and out of business . !!! they have been in financial trouble for awhile. they will be out of their building in two or three weeks. they were bought by another company. THEY ARE STILL SELLING PRODUCTS !!!!!! DO NOT BUY !!!!! they are more than likely bankrupt and in trouble with corporate law and IRS..(that is my feeling last sentence not a fact but more than likely)"
 
jcll2002 said:
they were bought by another company.
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Interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the one Treetops works for. :) Of course, I have no proof, but his posts do remind me of someone on a damage control mission.

Now if a reputable company were to buy Monarch and have the resources to bring it back to a semblance of normalcy, the fact is that their rep has been tarnished and it would be a long while before I'd even consider ordering from them.

There's a saying in the FS/T forum that you're only as good as your last trade. Like Kyle said, we easily forget 9 good years, but events in the last year, or even few months, can be a total turnoff to most of us.
 
Lethal said:
Interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the one Treetops works for. :) Of course, I have no proof, but his posts do remind me of someone on a damage control mission.
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Nice

Yea I do agree with you though about them being bought out by a good company. Unless it is a very well known company buying the remaining inventory and customer lists I don't think I would even still consider them. As I said before I almost bought stuff from them a while ago untill I read the return policy.

Few of my friends have ordered crap from them in the past and have had some issues. Enough that they are off my list. Kinda like my experiences with tiger direct. They really tried to fuck me like 8 plus years ago. Cancelled an order of mine for some scsi cards for some zip drives and didn't refund my money then gave me crap. Tens of thousands of dollars spent later and not a cent given to them. Once you get a bad taste in your mouth for a company it is very hard to get it out. I really think they(monarch) will never recover.
 
jonnyGURU said:
there's a particular disty in Atlanta that will tell you that Monarch is (was) their number one customer. :(
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If the disty you speak of is the one I am thinking of then that's not what I hear? PM headed your way..
 
jcll2002 said:
QUOTE FROM OCFORUMS

"spread the word..i went to monarch computer and talked with the guys there. their front doors are locked and there is a sign on it saying that they are closed and out of business . !!! they have been in financial trouble for awhile. they will be out of their building in two or three weeks. they were bought by another company. THEY ARE STILL SELLING PRODUCTS !!!!!! DO NOT BUY !!!!! they are more than likely bankrupt and in trouble with corporate law and IRS..(that is my feeling last sentence not a fact but more than likely)"
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Just for the record, this quote jcll2002 is referencing to is from a member at OCforums that has just registered at OCForums in the last few hours.
It's also VERY suspicious, I'm staff at OCForums and I can see where this thread poster is from, and he's from Tennessee, not Ga. (where Monarch is located) His IP is unique and not sharred with anyone and he's from Tenessee.

This is the thread from where this info jcll2001 is referencing to:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=4838538#post4838538

This is the persons profile:

http://www.ocforums.com/member.php?u=71051

PS, The most probable reason this person 'forgot' his digital camera is because this person is in TN. Not Tucker, Ga Therefore he would need a helluva zoom lens to take a digital picture of Tucker Georgia from Tenessee....

Now I'm not saying he is fibbing, but I can say you should take take this info with a grain of salt until reliable and confirmed info is provided.

PS, jcll2002, Tell your dad I'd like to be notified when you guys locate the UPS records for your RMA return to better help you.
 
Isn't Bankruptcy public record? I know that our local newspaper has an area devoted to this.

I wonder if [H] got hosed on those computers they reviewed. Those who participate in the program supposedly give the OK to have the computer reviewed and then returned for a refund--correct? Oh well, I really liked the hornet chassis--at least I used to :)

Good luck to everyone that is trying to get refunds. I really feel for all of you.... :(
 
hardwarephreak said:
If the disty you speak of is the one I am thinking of then that's not what I hear? PM headed your way..
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Not SED. :D
 
Pkirk618 said:
Isn't Bankrutcy public record? I know that our local newspaper has an area devoted to this.
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I'm not sure they have, or want to, declare bankruptcy. I'm not really sure how that works for someone in Monarch's position.

I wish I understood the bankruptcy laws better, but certainly it's not an ideal "out" for everyone in this kind of situation.
 
This is rather interesting.
When I worked for them back in 2002 or so they were just starting up and eveyrhting looked britght. Few years later, when they started advertising in print media, their sales reps became rather mean and unprofessional. Compared to before they did not fully address custumer's questions. Based on what I overheard, they used certain tactics in order to sucker in a custumer to buy non performance enhancing hardware and software.


I should swing by there this weekend, see whats up!
 
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