New P5B rig, but performance loss over old A64 rig

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postalSALMON

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Well, I am very happy with the OC on my new system, but after loading Oblivion
I noticed it stutters considerably more than my last setup :eek:
Was hoping some P5B owners could point out something I'm missing in the bios
or elsewhere. My OC appears to be rock solid. Verified with p95, memtest, and TAT
for hours and hours. But just incase, I also tested it with the FSB dropped down to 400
as well. My setup is as follows:

New rig:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
C2D e6300 w/ TT BigTyphoon Cooler (running at 460*7, 3.22ghz)
P5B Deluxe (bios 0804, all latest drivers)
2x1gb Ballistix PC-8000
ATI x1900xt - 6.11 Catalyst
Antec TPII 550w
2x160gb WDC SATAII in RAID0
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I've tested different bios configs as follows:

********************************************************
Jumper Free Config:

AI Tuning: manual
CPU freq: 460
DRAM freq: DDR2-920 (1:1)
PCIE freq: 100 (also tried 110)
PCI Clock spread: 33.33
Memory V: 2.25v
vCore: 1.400v (have tried range from 1.35o to 1.475, found 1.4 is best)
FSB v: 1.400v
NB vCore: 1.45v
SB VCore: 1.5v *(also tried 1.6)
ICH v: auto

CPU Config:

All on disabled

Northbridge Config:

Mem remap feature: disabled
DRAM timing by SPD: disabled
Timings, in order of bios settings: 4-4-4-12-6-42-10-10-10-10
Static Read Control: disabled
PEG forcex1: disabled
Peg link mode: auto
asus CGI: auto

Soutbridge Config:

PCIEX16_2/PCIEX1_1: auto (have also tried 4x fast)
********************************************************

Like I said, the main thing I've noticed is Oblivion runs worse than on my old build,
and windows takes a bit longer loading as well (all driver and game settings are identical).
If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciated it.

Here's my old rig for comparison:

A64 4000+ San Diego Core (stock speed @ 2.4ghz)
Asus A8r32-MVP deluxe
2x1g G.skill PC3200 at 2-3-2-8
same X1900XT, but 6.7 Catalyst <-----------hmmm, maybe 6.11 is the problem :confused:

TIA :)
 
I have a p5B deluxe, an E6700, and an 8800GTX. My safe overclock is around 3.4 ghz.

I play and mod Oblivion. I spent the better part of 3 weeks getting the game optimised via ini tweaks, mods, XP tweaks, etc.

The game runs great technically, but I see alot of stuuter when scripts are loading outside. I have contacted people with and without the P5B and I am beginnign to think I am running too many mods, or the P5B has an issue with this game.

Would love responses from P5B users and specifically people using 680i's ( I know a number of people who use this and report no stutter )

As I said my frame rates seem to be great, but in cities especially my frames drop to the 20's in some places. Some users report never dropping below 40 anywhere under any circumstances with high res texture mods and the same resolution.
 
My deluxe setup is running the game about 2x as smooth as my A64 2.6 Venice.
 
Interesting. I do run about 8 different mods on Oblivion.
They are the exact same as I was running with my A64 though. Still,
I wonder if the p5b just has trouble with some things in this game or
some of its mods.

Has changing any of the PEG settings in the bios helped anyone out?
 
Well, I have read that BIOS 0614 is the recommended one, for now, don't remember all the details, though. You might try flashing that one.

Also, there has been an issue with PCI-E being forced to x1 speeds which could be solved by setting the PCI-E bus to 96 MHz.
 
oblivion runs pretty poorly on my computer as well... p5B deluxe.

It's awesome when it runs, but ANY loading reduces it to hell...
 
Yeah I fail to see how anyones rig can run oblivion with no stutters at all, Harddrives are the weak link in any comp and oblivion needs to load from it at certain points so you invariably get stutter.
 
Well I agree 100%. Oblivion is a monster of a game and it is not optimised at all.

BUT.. I think we may be onto something with the P5B, simply because I have heard P5B owners having issues. I spend alot of time on the TES forums, and all the guys and gals with 8800GTX the 680i seem to report a completely different " smoother " Oblivion experience. Having read the above regarding the 614 bios and possible issues with the PCI E bus, I am beginning to wonder.

Going to try using another bios and setting the PCI to 96. I just think its strange that users with P5B models and 8800GTX aren't happy with their Oblivion performance.

Also a note. I use Qarl2 Textures + full parallax and 4096 distant LOD's. Yet I have benched the game with and without these texture packs and there appears to be absolutely no difference between the two.

Anyways lets keep this thread interesting, I will post later with some test results.
 
Yes, I expect Oblivion to stutter on any machine I use. I'm just concerned with the fact that my new, superior p5b system stutters much more than my older system.
Perhaps Oblivion has an issue with the p965 chipset in general?

1erCru: I'm eager to see to see your results :)

ijozic: I will try flashing back to bios 0614 from my 0804. Does 0614 bios OC as well as the new bios?
 
My conclusion is that I have no idea wtf is going on : )

I tried to flash the 614 bios but was unable to with their windows utility. It said you cannot backwards flash using Asus update. Regardless I haven't flashed manually but will try to although I am not sure I know how to. My gf has a usb flash drive but I do not have a floppy.

I have experienced this perceived lack of performance on the P5B deleuxe for the past month and a half. Other games run great but Oblivion is just a nightmare in some places.

I am pretty sure I am going to shop for a new mobo, possibly a 680i because I plan on using an SLI setup.

The p5B has been a wonderful overclocker for me but I have always felt something was amiss with the board and how it was communicating with my G card.

I will continue to experiment with Oblivion although I am not sure where exactly to go at this point.

If anyone knows how to flash the bios with a flash drive please post.
 
I too am w/out floppy, so I had to figure this out awhile ago. Hope this helps :p )
Instructions for booting/flashing using a flash drive:

Files you will need:

Virtual Floppy Drive: http://chitchat.at.infoseek.co.jp/vmware/vfd21-050404.zip

Format Utility for HP Drive Key (works for most flash drives, mine's kingston):
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/files/serveroptions/us/download/20306.html
****make sure you back up contents of flash drive before running this***

And of course the Asus DOS flash utility (AFUDOS226):
http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us

And whichever bios you will be flashing to.

1)
- Extract virtual floppy drive to the desktop and run vfdwin.exe.
- Under the Driver tab, make sure your driver directory corresponds the folder you extracted to
(if not, change the folder name/location).
- Hit 'Start'
- Then, under the Drive0 tab, hit Open and then Create.

2) You should now have a floppy (A: ) drive under 'My Computer'.
Right Click on your new A: drive, and select 'format'.
Check 'Create an MS DOS startup disk' and hit start.

3) Install the HP Format Utility.

- Run the format utility and select the following:

Device: Select your flash drive
File System: FAT
Check 'Create a DOS startup disk'
Select 'using DOS system files located at' and point it to the A: drive.
Hit 'Start'.

4) Now, copy the AFUDOS.exe (flash utility) file and the bios file to the flash drive.

5) Reboot and hit DEL to configure the BIOS to boot from your flash drive.

Under Advanced->USB Configuration->USB Mass Storage Device Config->Emulation Type: Select 'Forced FDD'.

- Exit & Save changes to the BIOS
- Hit F8 on reboot to select device to boot from. Select your USB flash drive.
(or you can go back into the bios a 2nd time, and set USB drive as the 1st bootable device).

You should now boot to an A: prompt, just like you were running from floppy ;)
Type afudos /(command switch for backup and/or flash).

Let me know if any of this needs further explaining.
 
Or if you're lazy, you can just copy the 0614 BIOS to USB flash drive, plug it, turn on your computer, enter BIOS and use the EZFlash application.
 
Hmmm, this part of the article was particularly interesting:

*******************************************************************************************
"P5B BENCHMARKS SLOWER AT HIGHER SPEEDS: BleedinEdge member Tony has an in-depth analysis of why higher FSBs can benchmark significantly slower memory bandwidths than much lower ones. For example, in his studies, he systematically proved that a 400MHz FSB is just as fast as a 460MHz FSB on this motherboard, and that a 400MHz FSB can deliver 500MB/s MORE memory bandwidth than just a one megaherz increase to 401! This issue, put simply, relates to the way the chipset (Which is like a very simple CPU) clocks itself based off your FSB with internally-set (And indirectly-controllable) multiplier. Essentially speaking, AVOID A 360-399MHz, 401 and 401-460MHZ FSB AT ALL COSTS. If you intend to overclock, get PC2-8000 and push for 475+ for high CPU clocks, or settle with a 400x6/7/8/9 clockspeed depending on your CPU for maximum performance. Not following these guidelines will not only rake your memory bandwidth over the coals, but also introduce SEVERE instabilities as the chipset (Northbridge) tries to run at too great a clockspeed."
*******************************************************************************************
Also, there was a part about running PCI-E bus at 96 instead of 100 improves performance with some gfx cards on the P5B.

I'm going to flash back to bios 0614, then OC at 400*7, 460*7, and 475*7 and compare results in Oblivion. (I have already proved stability at all 3 of these speeds with the usual stress tests).

I'll post results in the next couple days.
 
I can't wait to see them. I will also have access to a new motherboard soon and am going to benchmark both.
 
Jodiuh said:
I notice it too, but it seems more like an HDD thing...
Click to expand...

Left my AV running and FF...seemed smoother. I think I'm starting to stink of placebo. ;)
 
Okay, I've flashed to bios 0614 and played around with it a bit:



This 45 second test measured differences between FSB speeds (see 1st post for system specs)
(PCIE bus held constant @110)




Next I used the same test to compare PCIE bus settings at 96, 100, 110 (all using 1.6v)
(Holding FSB constant at 475).




So there you have it.
Statistically speaking, there isn't a real significant difference here.

The only significant thing here is the low variation in framerates found at 475*7 w/ 110 PCIE. This setting saw about 35% less framerate variation on average, which was slightly noticeable while running the tests.
Higher variation in framerates is much more noticeable (and annoying) in games than a steady, lower framerate.

Looking at these numbers, a lot of you are going to think, "What the hell is he complaining about? It looks like it's running fine!"

And you would be right, these numbers are better than the framerate numbers I got on my older A64 system. The problem is, it now jerks and stutters a lot more with the e6300/p5b.
(BTW, I am using the same HDD's as before, that's why I don't think that is what's causing it).

Perhaps later I will do additional sample tests using different catalyst drivers, run multiple regressions, and share the results.
And yes, I have too much time on my hands and do not have a life :p
 
Hey man, wow, what are your temps. W/ my e6600 stock volts on my scythe ninja and a thermaltake fan spinning at 4k rpm i get 40c idleing at 2.8ghz...
Wondering what you get, maybe i need to change the location of the fan...
 
idle at 42*C. 2xprime95 levels off at about 57-58*C.

Intel TAT (100% both cores) will level off at 63*C :eek:
1.45v in bios, 1.4 read in CPU-Z

I took the plexiglass out of my side panel (antec lanboy case) cause the airflow sucked.
My temps dropped about 6*C after that.
 
Well I have been doing my own tests....

The results appear to be substantial. I flashed to 614 bios ( I have no idea whether the bios is the issue ). More importantly I followed up on locking the fsb @ 400. This is in regards to the memory bandwidth issue that was discoverd with the P5B.

Currently @ 3.2 Ghz 400 fsb 8 x multiplier
8800GTX 620 / 1020 Rivatuner OC
4x MSAA 8xAF
Exact same Oblivion installation with all the mods

The first thing I noticed was a massive reduction in framerate fluctuation when loading scripts. I also very quickly noticed upon enterring IC from outside that my framerate which is almost always between 18-35 when standing still, rocketed to 90 fps. I have no idea how to explain this. Running through the city which usually resulted in 25-50ish frames with people out jumped up to 40-80 frames in crowds.
Outside framerates appeared alot more even, many scripts loaded without a hitch, and the ultra heavy script areas i.e. just outside IC over the bridge on the way to Chorrol displayed stutter but to a far more pleasing degree. I still can't explain exactly whats going on.

97.02 Driver used

The only significant variables changed were

614 bios
400 fsb and an underclock from 3.5 ghz to 3.2. Ram @ 800 4-4-4-12 ( Oblivion is GPU bound increased clocks after 3 ghz appear to have zero effect on frames )

and finally, and this may be a big issue, I deleted my INI file and am using zero performance tweaks. Yet I have been playing and modding and trying to optimize Oblivion for close to two months now, I never noticed BETTER performance without the recommended INI tweaks and that exactly what I am seeing. I am going to apply the tweaks and see if I get increased performance or possibly decreased which would point to the INI tweaks being the true culprit.
 
postalSALMON said:
Looking at these numbers, a lot of you are going to think, "What the hell is he complaining about? It looks like it's running fine!"
Click to expand...
It most certainly DOES NOT look fine!! Did you by chance test 400FSB w/ 110, 100, and 96 PCIe speeds? I'd be willing to be it's the PCIe...

1erCru said:
400 fsb and an underclock from 3.5 ghz to 3.2...
Click to expand...
How was this done? I see you're on a 6700 w/ def multi of 10. If you lowered multi to 8 from ten, that's got your chipset up kinda high 10/8*400*4=2000. You've got good cooling on NB and some volts there too?
 
Nope I just meant I backed off my OC from 3.5 to 3.2. In one of the previous threads a link was posted regarding the P5B and a memory bandwidth issue. Basically fsb 360-399 , and 401-460 caused a memory issue. Yet 400 or 470+ fsb corrected the problem. I am not sure myself tbqh.

400fsb 8x multiplier 3.2 Ghz

Was also trying to point out Oblivion is really GPU bound as I see little to no performance increase when running @ 3.5 or 3.6 compared to 3.2, keeping ram at the same speed. I assume this is a result of Oblivion being incredibly demanding in addition to being poorly optimised. Basically it feels like your computer is brute forcing its way through the game.


Also an update:

It appears some of the INI settings did have a negative impact, although I am not quite sure. I tried to reproduce framerates at specific save points. The problem is I have no idea now whether the mobo has an issue in regards to bios and or fsb speed and memory because it appears as though I stumbled upon some other issues...

I will have access to an EVGA 680i tommorow, so basically I am hoping it doesn't show up broken^^
 
In ref to your OC tho...you're using 8 multi right? That forces the chipset strap to 10(original multi) divided by 8 (applied multi) equals 1.25. Multiply that by your FSB and you'll get the real speed that NB's runnin' at. Which would be 500 (2000) in your case. So in that situation, you may wanna bump up the NB's voltage or perhaps give it better cooling. Unless that is, you're getting rid of it for the hot sex that is 680i. :D

Obliv's ridiculously tough on the GPU. I've had my CPU from 2.4 to 3.4 and it doesn't do a damn bit of difference. Want more perf? Add a GPU, lol. For me, I'm comfy w/ one and don't care to play w/ SLI again. Simply because it's easier dealing w/ one and it gets me by just nicely for my 1680x1050 LCD.
 
Yeah I agree, Oblivion is GPU bound. What I am trying to distinguish is whether the stutter is a result of a FSB / memory bandwidth issue or is just the game engine crushing my system. I will try to increase the voltage on the Northbridge.

The issue was sparked as the OP has the same setup as myself in many ways and experiences the same strange stutter. Upon further research and through communication with users who have the same setup as myself but are suing a mobo such as a 680i do not notice this framerate stutter and describe a smoother experience.

Also, and this is beginning to make me doubt my sanity....

I deleted the INI file walked into Imperical City market district from outside and get 70-90 fps. I was shocked. Last night I applied the INI performance tweaks one by one. From the ipreload to uexterior / interior tweaks, onto multithreading tweaks I still got the same performance a solid 70-90 fps in town, 50-70 in a crowd. I thought man this is wonderful, my previous performance was much worse 20-30 fps. Then I applied the water detail tweaks and my framerate plummetted to 30 in the exact same position from the exact same save. Water tweaks? in IC market district there isn't any water. I then shut my computer off and went to bed.

Going to lap a heatsink or something, this Oblivion engine is haunted or something.
 
from the graph itself (rather than just the raw numbers)...475x7 seems to make a very large difference ...a whole lot less min reaching spikes. This would seem to translate into a whole lot less stutters (or smoother gameplay).

add this to the:

" AVOID A 360-399MHz, 401 and 401-460MHZ FSB AT ALL COSTS" comment and


we have a eureka moment :)
 
Personal testing revealed that 401 mhz was a LOT slower than 380 on the FSB.

I couldn't boot between 380-400 so I couldn't test any further... Numbers got back up once I reached 450 +. 499FSB scored me better than a nice even 500 (sadly)...

So I agree, there's definitely some sub-system stuff going on here.

I can't provide any benches or anything as I'm waiting for my G80 Waterblock to come in :D
 
It most certainly DOES NOT look fine!! Did you by chance test 400FSB w/ 110, 100, and 96 PCIe speeds? I'd be willing to be it's the PCIe...
Click to expand...

Yes, I did test that as well and found no real diff between the PCIE buses there. I do believe you are right about it being PCIe related though. I set all PCIE bios settings to auto yesterday, and noticed a significantly smoother framerate while running across the bridge from IC to Chorrol.

from the graph itself (rather than just the raw numbers)...475x7 seems to make a very large difference ...a whole lot less min reaching spikes.
Click to expand...

I did notice that the huge dips on the graph correspond to crossing under the thresholds on the bridge from IC to Chorrol.

I'll get some more numbers soon (busy applying to grad school for the next few days) and post.
1erCru: I'm looking forward to your results with the 680i.
 
postalSALMON said:
...I set all PCIE bios settings to auto yesterday, and noticed a significantly smoother framerate while running across the bridge from IC to Chorrol.
Click to expand...
Mind listing those?
 
I have the 880i up and running. Only install issue was the Tuniq Tower was a tad too big for the NB cooler so I had to do a slight modification to the fan chassis.

I have no idea how to overclock with the 680i but it appears I have a healthy board. I cannot get the board to post using a reduced multiplier. Yet at 10x ( default ) multiplier I boot up and pass Orthos fine @ 3.5 Ghz. CPU voltage 1.52. Running ram in unlinked mode is really the reason I bought this board, you can basically run your ram at any speed independent of the FSB which imo is priceless.

The 680i appears to have more pep in the PCIe bus. The linkboost and default PCIe frequency is 125 and its rock stable. My first runthrough at 10x 3.5 ghz in 3dMark06 with the latest 97.44 drivers and a 650 / 1020 Ntune GPU OC yielded 12306 3dmark which is awesome. Although this has nothing to do with Oblivion is does point to better GPU - mobo communication.

I am currently installing Oblivion and will post my findings soon.

Now if I could just figure out how to boot up with a reduced multiplier, I have a feeling I was trying to boot into FSB holes.
 
Oblivion is up. After crashing twice after character creation I began to worry. I stopped the OC on my gcard and so far so good. I am also having a strange mouse issue where my mouse will look in a random direction and imput commands without a keypress, not sure if this is mod related, mouse failure related, or whatever.

Scripts appear to load much faster upon initial testing. I do not know exactly how to benchmark it for you guys. One area which was a notorious stutter area loaded with a very very small hicup. I will need to play more to truly verify a difference.

This is with no performance tweaks via the INI.
Framerates look fine so far although I prefer to be @ 600+ / 1000+ on the 8800.

PCIe is running @ 125 + linkboost as well as Nvidia GPUex enabled. I have no idea what linkboost and nvidia GPUex are but I know I didn't have these options on the P5B.
Going to test with INI tweaks.

Initial look was done @ 3.5 ghz , 800 4-4-4-12 2T
 
Anyone tested to see whether or not the poor performance has to do with the well-known JBMicron driver problem?

I assume that Oblivion uses some sort of optical disc and that most people have them attached to the PATA port on the motherboard, which is the JBMicron controller..
 
No data is read from the disk during gameplay. I use a No DVD patch so there is no disc involved. I am not sure of the problem you are reffering to but assumed you meant a problem reading the DVD.
 
680i + 8800GTX + Oblivion conclusion is...

The 680i gets significantly higher framerates coupled with an 8800GTX in Olivion. This is compared to the same setup on a P5B Deluxe

The stuttering is still present but less noticeable, possibly due to the higher framerates.
Outside running 16x 16x @ 1680 x 1050 I was seeing framerates in the 90's. Wanderring around town I am in the 50's-120+ , averaging about 75fps. I have never seen numbers like this on the P5B Deluxe.

I attribute the boost to the 8800GTX's compatability with the 680i in addition to various mobo options such as linkboost. My PCIe frequnecy defaults on this mobo @ 125 with linkboost enabled, some users reporting stability at 150.

I am also Currently OC'd and stable @ 3.6, an OC I couldnt get on the P5B Deluxe. The 3.6 is also running on less voltage than I ran 3.5 on the P5B. Temps are solid

680i has major issues booting into a high fsb. I have to run with 10x multiplier @ 1440 fsb which kinda sucks. Not sure what the issue is. The 680i is also a monster memory overclocker, you can really push your ram on this board. So basically the PCIe communication appears to be alot better, the mobo has better control of voltages, and is great with OC'ing ram. The fsb issue is a bummer but a new OC high on less voltage isn't such a bad thing.

Going to go start pumping up the PCIe frequnecy to see how much more performance I can eek out.
 
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