USMC2Hard4U
Supreme [H]ardness
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Old games are where it all started. And they still are better than 90% of games out there right now...
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Wii ability to download "legacy" games... worth it?
- Thread starter Molingrad
- Start date
tosp said:
Not really. AFAIK, this version of Street Fighter was never released on those consoles, and even if it was, it didn't have online multiplayer and the other features that this one will have.
tosp said:
So it was OK for people to slam Microsoft on the low availability of XBL Arcade titles yet now their strategy is passable because everyone elses favorite little company is going to do it...right.
tosp said:
REALLY? A company executive compared their product to a popular product that already exists?! No executives ever embellish about the quality of their product, right?!
tosp said:
Legal or not, most people who want to play older games are likely already doing so via the internet.
You forgot the "IMO", because no, Zelda isn't >> than Uno or Frogger to everyone. Some people have no interest in playing Zelda again. Games like Uno are popular because they're simple, yes, but it's more about the people you're playing with rather than the game itself.
K600 said:
OK... so that makes it worth 1/4 the price of a "next gen" game?
You live in quite the funny world, don't you? When did I ever slam Microsoft for the low availability of Arcade titles? Mind you, they don't have Nintendo's catalogue so they're probably going to be doing more staggering (as is evident by Major Nelson's blog) but that doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It's just their strategy so that people stop complaining there is nothing to play on the 360 over the summer. The rest of your post isn't worth responding to, aside from the fact that your gaming buck is a lot more valuable spending a few bucks for a Super Mario title than it is a few bucks for Joust or Pacman... IMO!
tosp said:
Since when has it been 1/4 of a next-gen game? I've yet to see any confirmation of the price of the game.
tosp said:
Even if you hadn't, you're constantly alluding to it as a negative point in comparison to Nintendo's vast back catalogue...which hasn't been specified yet...or priced yet...in fact, no firm details for their service exist aside from the fact that there will be one.
tosp said:
This, my friends, is a prime example of back-peddling.
You made a subjective and utterly ridiculous comparison, got called on it, and now you feel like playing damage control. That's fine, but everyone here sees through it.
Your whole argument is based around nothing but speculation/assumptions. You assume that their retro games will be competitive, despite the fact that they tried to charge us $25~30 for straight ports of NES games on the GBA. Sorry, but their history of retro pricing certainly doesn't bode well for those who assume that they're going to be $5 or less.
K600 said:
Were you at Microsoft Canada's Spring Fling event? No? They said "somewhere between 800 and 1200 MS points" - translate that into dollars if you'd like.
Why must you always respond with that cocky, condescending tone? I know I'm speculating, but I am not doing it for no reason whatsoever.
I'll sum up your post for you:
1 sentence later....
Speculation and assumptions said:
tosp said:
Were you? Don't think so.
My speculation is based on history. Yours is based on an ignorant bias against Microsoft which pretty much shines through in nearly every comment you make towards them. You'll throw in an objective comment here and there to back up bias later, but by and large, you do nothing but take jabs at everyone but Nintendo. You've latched onto several rose-tinted rumors in regards to the Wii's online service and you cite them as if they're fact.
Are you so much of a !!!!!! that you're willing to deny known history? Were we all just dreaming when we saw NES ports for over $20?
Stereophile
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ScreamingBroccoli said:
Yeah old nintendo games aren't worth it but can't wait to play pac man and galaga !
But they're in HD!
Seriously, talk about being called out on something.Baredor said:I have a dream that one day all Microsoft !!!!!!s and Nintendo !!!!!!s will come together to unite against the one true evil in the universe...
www.wii60.com
Did you answer my question? Don't think so. 800-1200 MS points - how much US $ is that?
Unlike yourself, I am not a !!!!!!, for I own almost every console out there - though nowadays I do most of my gaming on my PC and the DS. You claim I have a slant, yet you cannot see your own. I am not anywhere near as slanted as you make me sound - and to be frank, Nintendo's been getting brownie points from me because they absolutely deserve it, lately moreso than any other company (it's like they've finally woken up, which is more than I can say for a certain arrogant market leader).
I have been paying close attention to this industry (likely before you were an itch in your father's pants by the sound of your attitude). And because I've got this unique perspective I can tell you with conviction that there has been some MAJOR power shifts and strategy shifts inside Nintendo in the last few years. Their past history, colourful as it may be, is no indication of what their future holds - almost a clean slate. If you can't see this, then I suggest you go look it up - there is going to be no more $20 NES games, that is for certain. What they will charge is not finalized, but look at exactly who they are aiming their new system at and you will find that the price ranges WILL be mass market-accepted.
Back to the original topic: I certainly agree that many of the older games are much MUCH better (certainly deeper) than many of today's eye-candy-oriented titles that last 6 hours. I would rather pay $5-10 for Chrono Trigger than I would $60 for Prey - and I'm clearly not the only one. Nevermind the fact that Super Mario 1 is a much better game than Bethesda's Horse Armor, and $5 NES or SNES titles usually offer much more than a dozen new cars in PGR3.
tosp said:
"Almost every" console...except for those made by Microsoft. Unlike you, I actually do own almost every console from all the major manufacturers. I've sold my Sega Saturn and N64, but I've got everything else that was released between the Saturn and now. Playstation, Dreamcast, Playstation 2, Gamecube, Xbox, Xbox 360, and money set aside for the Wii; still all in my house.
The difference? I don't feel the need to slander one company for the same thing that I praise another about.
tosp said:
Quoted for ignorance.
tosp said:
Proof? Without proof, this is just wishful thinking.
tosp said:
Prey is made by Human Head, a relatively small developer. Don't you usually preach how Nintendo will be aiding small studios like theirs?
Chrono Trigger...meh. Nostalgia has a way of gold-tinting all memories. I'd much rather play a Golden Sun than pay for that.
tosp said:
...still assuming that Super Mario 1 will be <$5...
tosp said:
You neglected to mention that they have released many free cars as well, but that's to be expected...you have to ignore certain facts to maintain your one-sided view of the industry.
K600 said:
How do you know I don't own any Microsoft consoles? As you would say, "proof"? I'm not slanderous towards one particular company - if anything, Sony deserves a lot of shit right now, despite the fact that some of the best games I played this gen were on my PS2. Nintendo, however, does not. They are doing almost everything right for the first time in over a decade.
Ah, the "advertisement" cars, yeah but no thanks. As I said, Super Mario Bros ain't gonna cost $10, and in a couple months when they release information on the virtual console, I will be proven right. Until then, keep thinking that Marble Blast is a great value, for your "view of the industry" seems to be far more one-sided than my own, perhaps even moreso than theNoid. Could Nintendo fail with this service? Quite possibly, but it would require such collosal fuckups, that it would make Sony's latest blunders look like Kreskin thought them up.
TheBluePill
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Another thing to think about,
Who says that the porting of Old Systems stops here? If interest is enough, we might even get NeoGeo games or 3DO, Sega Master System, Jaguar... the list goes on.. There are atleast several great titles for each of these systems (except 3do..) that could be ported as a "Special" item.
Who says that the porting of Old Systems stops here? If interest is enough, we might even get NeoGeo games or 3DO, Sega Master System, Jaguar... the list goes on.. There are atleast several great titles for each of these systems (except 3do..) that could be ported as a "Special" item.
ScreamingBroccoli said:
Nice catch!
K600, c'mon even you have to admit. While the other 2 companies are in an all-out playground war, Nintendo's been the quiet kid with far more potential this time around. The fact that retro gaming is included is a great bonus and as long as the pricing is right it will be one of the console's big selling points right next to its innovative controller. And from what I've read, their not going to be gouging people like what they used to in the Yamauchi days. BTW, speaking of online SF2 Hyper... http://xbox.ign.com/articles/589/589688p1.html
Slartibartfast
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Chill out people, let's not have the 234907201274345th thread that does nothing other than demonstrate that nobody can see the future, eh?
Also, keep emulation out of the conversation or the thread will be closed. First and last warning.
Now for my opinion:
Keep in mind that nobody is forcing you to download these games. Hell you could buy a Wii and play it without ever even connecting it to the web. I think that having these old games for download is a great opportunity to snag some classics I never got to play, like the original Gunstar Heroes, hopefully the Mother games, that sort of thing.
Something to consider: you can buy some original NES games on GBA for $10. Yeah, that feels like a lot, but you have to factor in the physical components of the cartridge, not to mention the packaging, to that price. I would bet that original NES games, at least, will be $5 and under.
Also, keep emulation out of the conversation or the thread will be closed. First and last warning.
Now for my opinion:
Keep in mind that nobody is forcing you to download these games. Hell you could buy a Wii and play it without ever even connecting it to the web. I think that having these old games for download is a great opportunity to snag some classics I never got to play, like the original Gunstar Heroes, hopefully the Mother games, that sort of thing.
Something to consider: you can buy some original NES games on GBA for $10. Yeah, that feels like a lot, but you have to factor in the physical components of the cartridge, not to mention the packaging, to that price. I would bet that original NES games, at least, will be $5 and under.
Hate to say it, but Tops was right about a few things (these aren't so-called micropayments!):
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153857.html
While SF2 isn't a bad price (though the X360 pad, great as it is for many other things, is SO shit for this game), I think the value of similarly-priced Super Mario 3 is far better than that of Pac-Man and Galaga. Still, at least you can own the games legally. Speaking of owning games legally, there are rumours flying that since SNK currently has a love-affair with Nintendo, Neo Geo/MAME support may end up being a surprise announcment, along with a few select Sega Saturn games. Now THAT sounds juicy. NiGHTS anyone?
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153857.html
While SF2 isn't a bad price (though the X360 pad, great as it is for many other things, is SO shit for this game), I think the value of similarly-priced Super Mario 3 is far better than that of Pac-Man and Galaga. Still, at least you can own the games legally. Speaking of owning games legally, there are rumours flying that since SNK currently has a love-affair with Nintendo, Neo Geo/MAME support may end up being a surprise announcment, along with a few select Sega Saturn games. Now THAT sounds juicy. NiGHTS anyone?
TheBluePill
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Slartibartfast said:
I buy quite a few titles for the NES from Ebay and most, if not all come to around $7-$15 each, shipped. Getting games like "mega man" or "Battle toads" can be a real expensive venture as sometime those go for $20 each+. Even at $5 most of the NES library would be a steal.
That being said, from a nostalgia point of view...
I remember quite a few games from my past that brought me hours of joy. I go way out of my way to find these carts and once I have them, the games sometimes are not what i remember. the fun factor from when I was 10 and these were cutting edge is a bit different since we have had KOTOR, FarCry, Doom3 Etc since then. The simplified game play is sometimes a bit of a let down, yet I find the difficulty of these games to be madning sometimes.
Not that is not true of all Titles. Classics like mario, bionic commando, 1942 and others still pass the test of time. I am affraid if they do no put the "full" library out and capture the nostalgia rush, some of the older titles may go un-downloaded.
vortexpud said:
Not really. He still insists on relying on pure speculation as to the cost of these retro games. When presented with evidence that suggest that Nintendo might not be so generous with their old franchises, he gets defensive and falls back on bad-mouthing XBLA titles and prices. It's pretty damned ridiculous to compare unconfirmed games of unconfirmed prices to a service with titles that actually exist today and absolutely stinks of loyalism.
Sega Saturn emulation would've been done with the Dreamcast if it was possible to do in an efficient way. The lack of Saturn emulation isn't because of a lack of power; it's because of the half-assed way that Sega threw everything together at the last minute. Dreamcast fans practically got on their knees and begged for a Nights port or sequel.
Slartibartfast
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K600 said:
Yeah the saturn had some wonky architecture, including two RISC processors (they added the second at the last second when they realized how powerful the PS1 was).
K600 said:
They have stated brand new games on the Virtual Console will be about $4-$8 iirc, common sense says that the back catalogue will be cheaper than that, at the very least NES titles. I highly doubt the classic range for GBA is any indication for prices, expecially with them saving on boxes, packaging, manuals and the dreaded cartridge format.
-(Xyphox)-
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beanman101283 said:It's one of the reasons i'll be buying one. I don't feel like playing around with getting an emulator to work and i don't want to buy a gamepad. I'd rather just pay Nintendo the extra money and be reasonably sure that everything will work without any problems. I've never owned a Nintendo console (except for the DS Lite i just bought) so i plan on doing a LOT of catching up. I've never played a Zelda game for christ's sake. And since they're including old Sega games, i can get some old school Sonic and Gunstar Heroes action in.
never played zelda....... that truely is sad
i can remember playing that so much my thumbs would be swore for days
Cowcaster88
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Slartibartfast said:
The Saturn wasn't that bad of hardware, just that it never sold. Not to mention, if I remember correctly, it was a bitch to program games for it.
I wonder how much of an alliance there will be between Sega and Nintendo?
I don't know, it's kind of a silly question really. The ability is always worthwhile. It certainly doesn't make the Wii any less attractive. Your question should be whether or not old games are worth downloading (legally) for a price--no need for messing with emulators. And that is subject to a few factors, first and foremost the game and the price. I do know that there are a couple games I'll probably be getting for sure, but not many.
Slartibartfast
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Cowcaster88 said:
It wasn't that the hardware was bad, it's that it was wonky. No popular/mainstream consoles up that point had used multiprocessing (the Saturn had 2 cpu's). And because of that...
Cowcaster88 said:
This is part of the reason people were wary of the 360 and PS3's multithreaded architecture - it makes programming much more difficult.
One thing that Sony and MS have going for them, though, that Sega did not, is effective middleware.
There was the jaguar
and i was thinking the same thing the other day regarding the 16bit consoles and prior games ... until i had the pleasure of re-playing SMB 3 the other day , with their head to head option and i was having a blast, its so basic but at the same time so much fun.
and i was thinking the same thing the other day regarding the 16bit consoles and prior games ... until i had the pleasure of re-playing SMB 3 the other day , with their head to head option and i was having a blast, its so basic but at the same time so much fun.
Slartibartfast
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Trimlock said:
I thought there was one before the Saturn so I threw in the adjective "popular" to cover my ass. And it worked
Psychotext
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Just a short reply. I actually avoid going back and playing old games because invariably they're never as good as I remember them to be. Sadly that just spoils the memories of them.
Probably the only one that thinks this way, hehe.
Probably the only one that thinks this way, hehe.
You're not. Some games age extremely well (many of Nintendo's first party titles, for instance) and others do not (are you really expecting people to buy Galaga for $5?!). K600, when I speculate (and admit to it) I do so in a far more educated manner than "Nintendo sold GBA titles for $20 so that must be what their virtual console will cost!" - Smiffy hit the nail on the head.
tosp said:
I would totally buy Galaga for $5. I spent so much time on that game. It's as timeless as anything else.
Personally I think its not so much a matter of some games aging better than others, but some aging worse. Games like Galaga, Pac-Man, Tetris, they aren't really genres in the same way that WarCraft, Doom and Mario are. You'll never play Galaga and go "Man, this was done so much better just a year ago, I'll just play Galaga Clone 2005". Games Mario though, you can easily go "This was done so much better in Mario 64".
phoderpants
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tosp said:
I bought Galaga for $10 for GBA. It came with Dig Dug, Pac Man, and galaxian, but the only game I play is Galaga. And it was worth it.
Also, someone said that NEW games were going to cost anywhere from $4 - $8, but I don't think that anyone would argue that games developed by indie developers are likely going to be cheaper than the classics, which, I suppose, would put the the classic games at >$8, which, is also not unreasonable at all.
My point isn't that Galaga sucks. Far from it. But I wouldn't pay $5 - it doesn't offer me enough to consider it a worthy purchase at $5 (this isn't 1979 anymore). At least in that "classics" package you get more than just Galaga, aside from the fact that you enjoy it the most. It's all about perceived value - and considering that new indie games, we're told by the prez, will cost <$10, so will a great majority of the classics backlog. Certainly they won't be charging $8 for Ice Climber or $2 for Ocarina of Time, but you can absolutely, unequivocally be certain that they're not going to gouge either. Console targetted at entire spectrum of gamers (non, casual, and hardcore) = prices targetted at entire spectrum of gamers (simple equation). As I said, for the first time in over a decade, Nintendo is doing almost everything right - and they deserve every bit of the praise they have been getting lately. It's like watching the idiot at the office wake up and get into gear come promotion time.
tosp said:
I'm willing to bet that Galaga will be one of the highest selling XBLA games to date.
tosp said:
No, you haven't done it in a "far more educated way". You make assumptions with no real substance to back them up other than wishful thinking.
Satoru Iwata said:
You read this and say..."OH, so everything else that is older will be cheaper than that!". I read this as "We're going to provide indy-developers with a platform to release new, untested franchises but we're still evaluating the price of games we know will actually sell."
"New" is vague. Some of the cheapest Xbox Live games are new and they're not selling well against the more popular titles in the stable. Street Fighter is, like you said, going to be relatively expensive. The title, while old, is almost guaranteed to be a Must-Download for most XBL gamers because of the additions that have been made to the game.
I want to know where your faith comes from. Up until now, they've gouged us with everything else just like everyone else. They release hardware with updates that should've been there in the first place, a ton of proprietary cables/connections that could've easily been USB, silly peripherals, peripherals that are ridiculously small (Only to be updated by new, larger capacities later)...the list goes on and on. They've overcharged us for retro games in the past; why not expect it for the future?
Stereophile
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I still think there is no way Nintendo will charge more than $5/10 for its 8/16 bit catalog. The price of GBA "NES Classic" carts is a poor rationale because like someone said, this isn't a retail transaction. Also, there is no way I would pay $5 for Galaga or Pac Man. That's the type of game that can be painlessly emulated on PC. I had the namco museum with them. It was fun for about an hour. I'd much rather pay $5-10 for SMB3 or Yoshi's Island. I'd pay the XBL price for a perfect arcade port of SF II too.
Domingo
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Choosing a console to "pull for" is just like a religion. You don't need proof - you just have to believe! If you don't, you're an outsider and must be struck down!
Even if you like all of the systems, you're just like one of those confused Unitarians!
Even if you like all of the systems, you're just like one of those confused Unitarians!
tosp said:
I'd rather not comment on the specifics of my experience with that program, but I never had a problem with any of the titles I played.
It'd be wise for us to point this discussion in another direction. The mods are quite touchy about emulation discussion.
...and again, nobody knows the price of Metroid/Kid Icarus.
phoderpants
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K600 said:
That's funny. I was just gonna reply to his post with, "Shhhhhhhh."
Who wants to do it illegally when they can do it legally anyway? That's what I say. You wanna wake up to the FBI kicking in your door? Not cool.
Oh, and on topic: Galaga rocks ass!
K600 said:
I'm gonna agree with this statement.