aquacomputers- the new FAD in watercooling?

hey just starting to see this crap all over. havent seena nything but pretty exterior shots of waterblocks that cost my leg to have, and no temp/flow/efficiency charts on them


are the people buying them just wanting a pretty system, and dont care about performance anymore?

when i got out of it, i had cathers whitewaterblock, and was dreaming about the cascade, which was shown to be one of the best at reducing chip temps.

these new aqua block use small lines, and IMO scary connectors that really dont give me any confidence in the ability of these things to hold water.

is this crap REALLY going to give me lower temps than my whitewater block, eheim pump, and copper tubed res/radiator???

or is it just another fad in the watercooling market to people with plexi windows, neon tubes, strobes and colored fans (ricers)

AC is no slouch in performance, however neither will it offer you a great improvement, if any, over your previous setup.

IMO, and I am sure nobody can argue with me, there is simply no comparison anywhere on the planet atm to Cathars waterblocks.

Erasmus354 said:

AC is no slouch in performance, however neither will it offer you a great improvement, if any, over your previous setup.

IMO, and I am sure nobody can argue with me, there is simply no comparison anywhere on the planet atm to Cathars waterblocks.

Click to expand...

Yes that is correct ATM since Cathar's and A-C blocks have never been tested AFAIK together on the same test bench. I think that is about to change We are trying to get one of the Cuplex XT blocks sent in to ProCooling. I think a lot of people want to know what if any gains can be had using typical A-C gear. However, I would imagine that since Cathar's designs typically are set up for large bore tubing that it will best A-C gear.

Now the real question is how do you separate all that out so you can figure out the real merits of a blocks ability to get rid of heat and how efficient it is. From the little bit of Cathar's posts I have read and when I have time to cruise the ProCooling Forum I think they have come up with a way to do this. So what I would like to see is the block tested under usual real-life conditions, being that most people use A-C gear with either 6mm or 10mm ID tubing setups.

My personal opinion is that with watercooling we will not see fantastic gains in the ability of a computer to OC from one block to another in the top echelon.

the OC isint my primary reason for buying the waterkit

as most people im SURE the OC plays a part in it, but along with a stable OC, i get a quiester system, less dust, and the main thing, is that low rpm fans can maintain my cpu temp.

i never turn my fans up, i like my system quiet. do u think that aqua cooling system will keep my system from OVERHEATING with ( 10mmID hose) their inferior flow, pumps, and designs.

johnzm said:

the OC isint my primary reason for buying the waterkit

as most people im SURE the OC plays a part in it, but along with a stable OC, i get a quiester system, less dust, and the main thing, is that low rpm fans can maintain my cpu temp.

i never turn my fans up, i like my system quiet. do u think that aqua cooling system will keep my system from OVERHEATING with ( 10mmID hose) their inferior flow, pumps, and designs.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily inferior flow, just different. There are different ways to transfer heat from a waterblock to the water. The two main ways being water velocity, or flow, and the turbulence of the water. Increasing the turbulence decreases the flow. I'd imagine that the AC and all other low flow gear do a great job at creating turbulence, thus increasing the blocks ability to transfer heat to the water, and hence away from the processor.

AC gear and designs are expensive, but not bad.

johnzm said:

the OC isint my primary reason for buying the waterkit

as most people im SURE the OC plays a part in it, but along with a stable OC, i get a quiester system, less dust, and the main thing, is that low rpm fans can maintain my cpu temp.

i never turn my fans up, i like my system quiet. do u think that aqua cooling system will keep my system from OVERHEATING with ( 10mmID hose) their inferior flow, pumps, and designs.

Click to expand...

Not a problem. My Koolance Exos rig fulfills all your criteria except noise. The A-C gear does it with no noise.

johnzm said:

Hey just starting to see this crap all over. Haven't seen anything but pretty exterior shots of waterblocks that cost my leg to have, and no temp/flow/efficiency charts on them...are the people buying them just wanting a pretty system, and dont care about performance anymore?...

Click to expand...

Well I just wanted to take a quick minute to explain why all of this Aqua Computer stuff seems so rampant in the [H]ardForum water cooling sub-forum lately. Up till recently all of this Aqua Computer stuff has been concentrated into one distinct thread which you would probably know as the Teh Uber L33t Aqua-Computer Thread. With over 2,000 posts and over 84,000 views it is the most attended and populated thread anywhere in this sub-forum. I would imagine it is probably one of the most heavily trafficked threads of anywhere in the whole [H]ardForum itself

Just recently there was a problem in the distribution of these products so many people were put off by all the BS and simply didn't want to post there anymore. Another reason is that the thread itself has become so gigantic that it is difficult to find any useful information unless you were to sit down and read it all the way through which most people would say was at least a day at the computer At one point recently we had chatted about splitting it up into like five-seven (5-7) different Aqua Computer related thread. However, that seemed difficult as a lot of people wanted their own threads which would enable them to get more focused attention for their particular problem at hand. My personal opinion is that this is a good thing for all concerned.

So we didn't just invade this forum. We were always here and no one paid any attention because we were in the back of the bus so to speak. Now we all want to come out and play.

johnzm: In the last few months, a lot of new new people interested in getting wet have decided to get AC gear (no idea how steered that way by you Top ) instead of, by todays more popular performance standards, 1/2"-higher flow-more focus on performance than looks-WC.

It sounds to me like youre itching to upgrade, your priorities would be the pump (is yours a 1046, 1048, or 1250?) & radiator/heater core. Your WW will be fine, and perform even better with more flow. The most recent blocks (NexXxoS XP, Storm G5) give about 2* better temps than you WW, as it seems that block design has about come to a performance limit.

AC gear will work just fine for cooling, just not as well as equivalent higher flow components. A lot of people have been buying AC, as they like the looks of AC gear, and are willing to spend more & sacrifice some performance rather than get a DD/Swiftech/D-Tek 1/2" loop.

Top Nurse: Its not so much turbulence created in a block, instead of contact area for heat to be dissipated. You may have seen Jaydees Lumpy Channel on the ProForums, and you can see that is does not have a center inlet, but because of the high amount of copper able to put heat into the water, the block performs very well. BTW, I also would like to see a Cuplex XT reviewed by ProCooling, then I'd like AC to make a model for 1/2" and see how much better it would perform

AquaComputer is not a "FAD", it is about the fact we can easily get the product in the USA. Having almost every block ever make, except a G5, I would say the cooling performance is on par with or better than ninety percent of the blocks (only block I could overclock better with was a G4). To be honest, I was skeptical at first and ran a 3/8" ID tygon on my first AC setup and finally made the jump (or drop) to 8mm tube with no performance loss.

No one was at the back of the bus, the first AC thread started by dan was almost two years ago and the people that posted then do not post now. The stuff is becoming readily available for everyone to get thus more post. Dont be fooled this sh!t has been around for awhile now

Johnzm, you said 10mm ID... That's 3/8" ID. You meant 10mm OD/8mm ID, but rather, Aqua Computer uses 8mm OD/6mm ID hose.

I've been using small bore cooling for the past year and a half. Small bore isn't just low flow and/or Aqua Computer, there are a lot of good looking/good performing German parts with higher flowing parts too, like Alphacool/Cape, Cool Cases, Watercool, Innovatek, Zern, Icebear, Repack etc. The main difference is the small tubing. Most German outfits are content with their 6 or 8mm ID tubing and can't be bothered to use something larger. Pricing is pretty competitive compared to American blocks, and of course, some things cost more than others.

I've used both styles of cooling and I prefer the small bore, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the large bore cooling. There does seem to be a lot of posts now, moreso than there was a year ago, and it is heavily Aqua Computer based (I hate when it's abbreviated to 'Aqua'), but it's not a fad, well, at least it shouldn't be a passing fad.

I wanted a Cascade when they were out, I could have had one recently, but I didn't bid (eBay) thinking the price would skyrocket at the last half hour and it didn't. It sold for $80 with a single bidder (of course he could have had a $200 bid on it anyway)

Pooky said:

I wanted a Cascade when they were out, I could have had one recently, but I didn't bid (eBay) thinking the price would skyrocket at the last half hour and it didn't. It sold for $80 with a single bidder (of course he could have had a $200 bid on it anyway)

Click to expand...

OUCH... that is a killer price, and to lose it 80.00......

kan1che said:

In my understanding Aqua Computer, is about looks right? and those american are about performance?

Click to expand...

No we are all about performance. It's just that some people are in to different types of performance. The BIB group are like what I call the Top Fuel Funny Car crowd. The only thing they are interested in is flat out water cooling performance. The cooler the better period. Makes for interesting lab results that they all can ohh and awe about.

Then there are the rest of us who are average drivers who are interested in looks, mileage, and drivability. This group really doesn't care about whether their rig will cool the best, or is cost efficient in terms of thermal transference. What this crowd really desires is a good looking computer, cools good enough that they can OC to the best ability of their machine, and doesn'ty cost an arm and a leg to run the dang thing. The actual cost of the car or water cooling rig is blase' because they aren't planning on keeping the thing around forever anyway and will undoubtedly trade up for something else in a year or so. Just like people trade their cars in for newer models. You just have to come up with the down payment so to speak and then you are set to go from there on in.

Again the issue is what type of performance you are interested in. And I should point out that an Aqua Computer rig isn't for everybody. However, if you are an aficionado of high tech computer stuff then you will fit really well in the groove. Aqua Computer is like a marriage of style, engineering, electronics, and performance. There are very few who will not tell you that Aqua Computer is the best looking stuff on the planet. There is no other company that provides such an advanced degree of mechanical and electronic engineering to the total product. You just have to look at the Aqua Computer block and reservoir designs to know that these boys don't follow the same parade as everyone else. Take a look at the Aquaero and see what it can do for you! Calling it a fan controller is like calling an ICBM a skyrocket. Take a hard look at the Aquastream pump and you will see an engineering marvel as it really is an AC pump driven by DC off the PSU. It changes the speed of the pump flow by actually changing the basic electrical AC signal in hertz!

I think I have given you several reasons to use and own an Aqua Computer water cooling solution. Now you just have to decide if you want to drive a Porsche or a Ford Explorer? Both will get you to the same place. One will get you there in style. Read the last line in my sig and it's your decision.

Top Nurse said:

Not a problem. My Koolance Exos rig fulfills all your criteria except noise. The A-C gear does it with no noise.

Click to expand...

Yeah this is one of the main reasons I decided to go with AC gear. I mean is there a passive radiator out there that can beat the EVO 1800? And don't say like a freaking car's Radiator, because I am not going through the hassles of trying to thread my own fittings into something that doesn't have standard threads...

J-Mag said:

Yeah this is one of the main reasons I decided to go with AC gear. I mean is there a passive radiator out there that can beat the EVO 1800? And don't say like a freaking car's Radiator, because I am not going through the hassles of trying to thread my own fittings into something that doesn't have standard threads...

Click to expand...

im using 2x mora2 pro

I don't believe it is a FAD as in the increased availability from Sharka as well as people looking to higher standard of engineering and seems to appreciate the quality of workmanship from aqua computers.

FAD implies that it will not be around long or is so far off the "normal" path as to look ridiculous in the near future.

Aqua Computer parts have been around for over 2 years that I am aware of ..possibly even longer. Thus not a flash in the pan as far as product lifetime would be concerned, especially when compared to others.

Aqua Computer parts fit quite well within the normal path for Low Flow European based systems. So while they may appear as strange to Hardcore Hi Flow Americans they are not that different, same materials (Copper and Plexi Occassionally Siver) , Similar Design concepts (accelerator plates and pin based base plates etc..).

I think it might be more true to say that because of the increased emphasis lately on noise and looks Aqua Computer parts have been discovered by the more mainstream American Computer enthusiast.

This is not to say the Aqua Computer parts can't be used in Hi-Flow systems they just require a little more work to get there. But isn't that why some of use like doing this after all?

ikellensbro said:

johnzm: In the last few months, a lot of new new people interested in getting wet have decided to get AC gear (no idea how steered that way by you Top) instead of, by todays more popular performance standards, 1/2"-higher flow-more focus on performance than looks-WC.

It sounds to me like youre itching to upgrade, your priorities would be the pump (is yours a 1046, 1048, or 1250?) & radiator/heater core. Your WW will be fine, and perform even better with more flow. The most recent blocks (NexXxoS XP, Storm G5) give about 2* better temps than you WW, as it seems that block design has about come to a performance limit.

AC gear will work just fine for cooling, just not as well as equivalent higher flow components. A lot of people have been buying AC, as they like the looks of AC gear, and are willing to spend more & sacrifice some performance rather than get a DD/Swiftech/D-Tek 1/2" loop.

Top Nurse: Its not so much turbulence created in a block, instead of contact area for heat to be dissipated. You may have seen Jaydees Lumpy Channel on the ProForums, and you can see that is does not have a center inlet, but because of the high amount of copper able to put heat into the water, the block performs very well. BTW, I also would like to see a Cuplex XT reviewed by ProCooling, then I'd like AC to make a model for 1/2" and see how much better it would perform.

Click to expand...

I haven't talked anybody into buying A-C gear The stuff sells itself for those willing to look into the whole picture.

Please go here to check out the Watercool Planet list of top blocks tested. You will see the Cuplex Pro in the top 10 blocks ever tested. One of these is the NexXxos series that you seem so fond of talking about. You will also notice that the difference in temps associated with these blocks is only 1-2 degrees. The Cuplex XT has been proven elsewhere to beat the Cuplex Pro by about 1-2 degrees. So until we can get these blocks tested it seems to me that the inference is that the Cuplex XT will probably be right up there in the front runners of water cooling blocks available anywhere in the world. BTW, the XT does not have a center inlet either and the design is similar to the NexXxox HP.

Now if you go here to the Pro Cooling interactive block guide you can then compare how the NexXxos XT compares to the Little River blocks. You can find a Cuplex XT review here at Twin:Byte. Sorry but it's in German so use your favorite translating tools. So while it is a round about way of comparing blocks you can get the general inference that Aqua Computer gear is top notch equipment for the Top Nurse.

Yes turbulence is a major factor in heat dissipation. How else do you suppose that low-flow systems work so well then? What we are seeing here is simply two different engineering point of views. Both designs will do the same for us in the end, but they do get to their objective in different manufacturing paths. No right or wrong here, just a difference. But the Aqua Computer difference just looks better IMHO than a bunch of ugly looking big water blocks and 1/2" ID tubes.

nigely said:

im using 2x mora2 pro

Click to expand...

I'm using a Maxi sized Innovatek passive. The Ultra sized one looks pretty super (size and looks, but I can't find reviews).

nigely said:

im using 2x mora2 pro

Click to expand...

I haven't seen much availability for these suckers in the US. How many 120m fans does this radiator support anyway?

Top Nurse said:

The BIB group are like what I call the Top Fuel Funny Car crowd.

Click to expand...

I'd say it's more like American Sport vs European Sport in automobiles. One will cost you 1/2 as much and perform as good or better. With the other your paying for 'image'.

MikeyB said:

I'd say it's more like American Sport vs European Sport in automobiles. One will cost you 1/2 as much and perform as good or better. With the other your paying for 'image'.

Click to expand...

If that is the case I would say AC is like Formula 1 compared to NASCAR.

its about finese vs power kind of thing

the AC stuff are efficient, hence no need for massive amount of flow to make up for crappy blocks.

Igg said:

its about finese vs power kind of thing

the AC stuff are efficient, hence no need for massive amount of flow to make up for crappy blocks.

Click to expand...

ROFLMAO

If you think that most high flow blocks perform like "crap" then you're fooling yourself. Both types of block perform well The simple fact is that a decent high flow system will outperform a AC setup for 1/2 the money. Considering that most people (myself included) rarely take time out of their day to admire the innards of their computer i'm going to have to say 'case closed'.

That's alright, I like the looks of my AC blocks, so money well spent.

Top Nurse said:

Now if you go here to the Pro Cooling interactive block guide you can then compare how the NexXxos XT compares to the Little River blocks. You can find a Cuplex XT review here at Twin:Byte. Sorry but it's in German so use your favorite translating tools. So while it is a round about way of comparing blocks you can get the general inference that Aqua Computer gear is top notch equipment for the Top Nurse.

Click to expand...

Please keep in mind that Derek at Procooling is testing these blocks on a VERY different setup than the low flow AC stuff. He is using a heavy duty Hydrothruster marine aquarium pump and 1/2" tubing too, hmm, makes you wonder if the performance would be the same with 1/4" tubing and a Eheim 1046/1048. Well guess what, it wont be, it will more likely be poorer than what that graph suggest.

A graph based on real world performance with, and I note, 1/2" tubing can be found here:




Naturally, if you swap out the 1/2" for 1/4" inch tubing performance will suffer somewhat....


Notice also in the graph that excepting the Storm G4/G5, ALL the blocks stay around .5*c within each other, with the Storms pretty much molesting the other blocks.

Another interesting note, if you look at the lowest flow pump, the 1046, the fabled nexxos pulls in the crappiest numbers. Hmm, maybe low flow and 1/4" isn't all it's cracked up to be...

Plywood is referring to work being done over at Procooling to plot waterblock performance vs hydraulic pumping power as a way to better assess waterblocks on the whole "weak vs strong" pump requirement deal, and to attempt to draw a more level playing field that pure "flow vs performance" which does not take into account the restrictiveness of waterblocks.

In essence, the goal of the work was to actually define what is meant by an "efficient" waterblock design, and then go ahead and plot real-world waterblocks against that definition.

In essense, what was developed was a chart of waterblock efficiency based on actual properly conducted performance tests.

The thread that discussed all this can be found here:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10859

One of the more interesting graphs from that discussion which draws upon a lot of work by a lot of people is this one, which is perhaps the highlight of the thread in that it presents a very "pure" representation of waterblock efficiency that combines flow and restrictiveness into a performance vs pumping power graph. The scale of the temperature results are limited in that they apply to Procooling's testbed.



Plywood's graph that he shows above is a real-world derivation of the work/discussion from that thread.

This work is very interesting because it debunks much of the "myth" that goes around about "big bore inefficiency" and so on.

Cathar said:

Plywood is referring to work being done over at Procooling to plot waterblock performance vs hydraulic pumping power as a way to better assess waterblocks on the whole "weak vs strong" pump requirement deal, and to attempt to draw a more level playing field that pure "flow vs performance" which does not take into account the restrictiveness of waterblocks.

In essence, the goal of the work was to actually define what is meant by an "efficient" waterblock design, and then go ahead and plot real-world waterblocks against that definition.

Click to expand...

So do you think that the A-C Cuplex XT would be tested fairly if it was sent in for evaluation at ProCooling? It seems that everyone bags on A-C because of their small tubes, but they seem to cool our processors just dandy. Would we need to send tubing, connectors, pumps, etc. to get this done? Also do you know who we would contact to send in a sample?

Top Nurse said:

So do you think that the A-C Cuplex XT would be tested fairly if it was sent in for evaluation at ProCooling? It seems that everyone bags on A-C because of their small tubes, but they seem to cool our processors just dandy. Would we need to send tubing, connectors, pumps, etc. to get this done? Also do you know who we would contact to send in a sample?

Click to expand...

The procooling testers are unbiased. In fact - to level the ground with the NexXxoS XP, that block was tested with 1/2" barbs attached, so it really could not have been any better. Had it been fitted with smaller fittings, it would have been more restrictive and would have suffered on the above waterblock efficiency chart. Knowing that, Procooling pretty much showed the block it its best possible light by putting 1/2" fittings on it.

Only thing required to send is the block. What fitting size you decide to stick on it is up to the person sending it. If you send it set up for 1/4" ID tubing, Procooling will test it like that.

What happens is that Procooling's test loop is all 1/2". They use their own pump, and control the incoming water temperature via a special temperature regulator to ensure that the block is being fed with a fixed temperature source of water. If the block is fitted with 1/4" fittings, they'd step the 1/2" down to 1/4" to get to the block, and the 1/4" back up to 1/2" again after the block. If you wanted a block's performance to be assessed independent of the extra restriction that 1/4" tubing and fittings would do, then it would obviously be best to send one to Procooling with 1/2" OD barbs on it.

The person to contact is Phaestus, whose real name is Derek. His email address is listed at the Procooling website.

Cathar said:

The procooling testers are unbiased. In fact - to level the ground with the NexXxoS XP, that block was tested with 1/2" barbs attached, so it really could not have been any better. Had it been fitted with smaller fittings, it would have been more restrictive and would have suffered on the above waterblock efficiency chart. Knowing that, Procooling pretty much showed the block it its best possible light by putting 1/2" fittings on it.

Only thing required to send is the block. What fitting size you decide to stick on it is up to the person sending it. If you send it set up for 1/4" ID tubing, Procooling will test it like that.

What happens is that Procooling's test loop is all 1/2". They use their own pump, and control the incoming water temperature via a special temperature regulator to ensure that the block is being fed with a fixed temperature source of water. If the block is fitted with 1/4" fittings, they'd step the 1/2" down to 1/4" to get to the block, and the 1/4" back up to 1/2" again after the block. If you wanted a block's performance to be assessed independent of the extra restriction that 1/4" tubing and fittings would do, then it would obviously be best to send one to Procooling with 1/2" OD barbs on it.

The person to contact is Phaestus, whose real name is Derek. His email address is listed at the Procooling website.

Click to expand...

I don't think it is possible to get anything larger than 3/8" ID on those blocks due to the design of the nozzle accelerator plate. I was thinking of modding an extra plate I got in from A-C to use 1/4 BSPP, but to do it I would have to mill open the accelerator plate or it would be a waste of time. Then I would have to get it nickel plated again and I gave up on the idea as impractical.

No - modding the block would not be acceptable - or at least not if you wanted to claim that it was representative of the real deal.

Just fit whatever fittings are the largest that can be fitted as stock on it.

I was thinking about doing it for my own benefit.

So the 3/8 barbs will be the deal then. Might also talk Sharka into sending it with 6mm ID as well. Most people use either 6mm or 10mm ID tubing with their blocks.

Cathar and Nurse,

Wouldn't it be acceptable to use the 10MM bard on the XT as that is the largest native connection that the AC gear will accept?

Yes, you would have restrictions but it should not nearly be the level of impact as if you used the 1/4" as proposed above.

Admittedly this is a best light/closest match to BIB and 1/2", but since many including myself are following Cathar's reccomendation. Using 7/16" ID by 3/32" wall hose to diminish the difference between 3/8" and 1/2: it should still be a valid test.

Then again I am a Noob on both of these forums so what do I really know.

cathar. havent seen ur name in a year (been AFK for awhil )

im curous how your ww blocks are doing so far, and if they are still backordered forever??


to everyone else,

please guys entertain me since i STILL am not enthused about buying this stuff, and tell me what the AVG kit costs from aqua. (pump/res, tubing radiator? and block)


thanks

Well if your talking to cathar i would not be trying to get AC, i would be trying to figure out when you could get a storm block.

Hey I just ordered some aqua computer parts. What is the biggest tubing I can use with the installed plug & cool fittings? (w\o modding)

Nobody said:

Cathar and Nurse,

Wouldn't it be acceptable to use the 10MM bard on the XT as that is the largest native connection that the AC gear will accept?

Yes, you would have restrictions but it should not nearly be the level of impact as if you used the 1/4" as proposed above.

Admittedly this is a best light/closest match to BIB and 1/2", but since many including myself are following Cathar's reccomendation. Using 7/16" ID by 3/32" wall hose to diminish the difference between 3/8" and 1/2: it should still be a valid test.

Then again I am a Noob on both of these forums so what do I really know.

Click to expand...

As we were discussing last night it would have to be 10mm (3/8) ID barbs as that is the biggest barb you can get on a 1/8 BSPP fitting.

J-M-E said:

Hey I just ordered some aqua computer parts. What is the biggest tubing I can use with the installed plug & cool fittings? (w\o modding)

Click to expand...

Well assuming you ordered it from Sharka you can order your stuff in 6mm, 8mm, or 10mm ID tubing. I think the default is 6mm ID Plug & Cool fittings.

johnzm said:

please guys entertain me since i STILL am not enthused about buying this stuff, and tell me what the AVG kit costs from aqua. (pump/res, tubing radiator? and block)

Click to expand...

I got better things than to entertain you Go here to Sharka and entertain yourself to your mouse clicking pleasure