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Windows XP from Dell?
- Thread starter munkle
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SuddenDemise
Limp Gawd
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You could if you wanted to. The Dell Windows XP OEMs suck thought. I was using one for awhile, and it had so many problems. Its like they only run stable on Dell systems it seems. But, yea if you want to you can.....
SuddenDemise
Limp Gawd
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No problem bro......
hulksterjoe
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munkle said:
You can try. It may not work or load as the dell disks are BIOS locked to the dell computer.
But from a strickly legal perspective the answer is NO. The O/S is linked to that machine with which it was purchased, when that machine "dies" or is retired so is the OS
ninethreeeleven
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hulksterjoe said:
Thats why, when I get Windows for my new box, I am buying it OEM with a Fan. That way the product I purchased it with, the fan, can be moved from computer to computer along with the OS.
But if the fan dies....does windows have to retire?
The Bryophyte
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Installing an oem copy on a machine other than that which it came with, even if the machine is physically no longer in existence, is illegal. The fact that some companies will sell it to you with a fan or CD-audio cable seems questionable to me, but I'm not sure on the technicalities of it all.
I think that is crap that you cant use a copy of winxp that came with a dell or something, or any other computer for that matter. With the computer you bought, you also bought an operating system. I think you should be able to do with this operating system as you please, whether it be use it on a different computer instead, or sell it, or rip it to shreds, you paid for it, you should be able to USE it.
For instance, i have a copy of winxp home..actually 2....that came with dell computers (laptops) and i will never use it, why?...because i bought pro from my school for 35 bucks
. But now i have this version of xp home that i dont need for that computer, why shouldnt i be able to use it on a different computer..like an older one or something? Because M$ wants more money, thats why.
So i just dont use them (no, i wont install linux on it, im too lazy)
For instance, i have a copy of winxp home..actually 2....that came with dell computers (laptops) and i will never use it, why?...because i bought pro from my school for 35 bucks
. But now i have this version of xp home that i dont need for that computer, why shouldnt i be able to use it on a different computer..like an older one or something? Because M$ wants more money, thats why. So i just dont use them
(no, i wont install linux on it, im too lazy)While I agree with you in principle, it's not the legal case. If you want a flexible license, buy retail. Of course Dell won't sell you a PC with retail, so you have to build your own, which we all know is better in 9/10 cases.Octave said:
Don't like the limits of OEM, don't buy it.
hulksterjoe
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The Bryophyte said:
This is legal, You must sell the OEM software with a piece of internal computer hardware.unless sold as a 3pack. A fan or a audio cable/HDD, FDD whatever is legal.. A piece of CAT5 is not..
That piece of hardware though does not have to be installed in the system that the software goes with.
Octave said:I think that is crap that you cant use a copy of winxp that came with a dell or something, or any other computer for that matter. With the computer you bought, you also bought an operating system. I think you should be able to do with this operating system as you please, whether it be use it on a different computer instead, or sell it, or rip it to shreds, you paid for it, you should be able to USE it.
For instance, i have a copy of winxp home..actually 2....that came with dell computers (laptops) and i will never use it, why?...because i bought pro from my school for 35 bucks
So i just dont use them
You dont have agree with it. but your wrong in your assumption that you own anything. you dont. You did not buy the software, you bought a license to use the software in a manner consistent with the licensing agreenment that you must accept before loading.
EDIT -damn Phoenix86 you type faster
This is because the equipement sold to fulfill the OEM requirement of selling the OS with hardware is *not* the same requirement for licensing.The Bryophyte said:
Look at it this way.
3rd party Seller like newegg sells XP OEM. They have to sell some hardware with it to qualify as an OEM sale. So they sell a fan/CD-audio cable. Their OEM requirements are fulfilled as an OEM seller.
Now you own XP OEM. When you install it, your requirement is that the motherboard it's installed on is the one the license is tied to. You have now fulfilled your OEM requirements as a system builder.
They are 2 seperate requirements.
With the many thousands of dollars of hardware and software people put into their PC's, it still floors me how cheap and whiny some people get about the one piece that holds it all together , the OS. Even at full retail (which no one every pays), XP Pro is the most bang for buck you get out of any of the dollars you spend on your PC.
If you want to complain about the cost of something, how about Adobe Premier Pro with After Effects?
If you want to complain about the cost of something, how about Adobe Premier Pro with After Effects?
Well, the expectation is, when they spend thousands of dollars they expect to be able to move the OS from that box to any other. Just like you can take the CPU, RAM, HDD, etc. out of a Dell and use it in a home built box. But no, the OS is *special*. Why? because they said so.rcolbert said:
Who'd be pissed if the OEM processors had the same restrictions? Everyone on this board. Imaging a processor being tied to the first mobo it was installed on because of legal reasons... Bullshit.
It's a reasonable expectation that the license doesn't allow.
edit: Not everyone runs Premier/After Effects, yet we all have an OS. The OS is a better battle to fight.
Phoenix86 said:
I guess if people realized that their OEM OS that came with their Dell system cost so little that it's perfectly reasonable that it's tied to one computer. The OEM OS is only a fraction of retail and even that's a steal when you look at how much comes with it. If OEM OS'es were transferrable, then OS licensing would have to take on a whole different model because every Windows license sold would live on in perpetuity and there would be no way to market and sell a retail license. The logical conclusion there is that OEM licenses would cease to exist and that every license would be retail and prices would be set accordingly.
Back to the point. People who buy OEM and get bent out of shape about the lack of transferability are just missing the whole purpose of the OEM license. If you build your own systems and constantly upgrade, swap out motherboards, etc., then OEM isn't for you. The steep discount and the limitation go hand in hand.
Phoenix86 said:
I like this guy, he gets it. Heres a question tho, if you buy your OEM windowsxp with, say a fan, and then you install both in a computer..and the mobo and CPU go bad and die....does that mean your license is up?...or is it up when your fan dies? or what if your fan dies but you leave it in there? does that mean windows can stay on your machine but you cant use it?
i mean, its just so vague i wish they would do away with this OEM crap and put the license more as a "Discount if you buy a processor...or discount if you buy a mobo" or something like that.
rcolbert said:
maybe it should be that its all retail, but you get a discount if you buy a processor/mobo or a full computer from dell or something. I think an OEM LICENSE is crap personally, as do many others, and i am willing ot bet that much much more than 50% of people who build their own computers are breaking the license agreement without knowing it....others knowing it
As for your theory that no one will ever need a new windows license...thats what the next version is for...DUH...like longhorn. When longhorn comes out....i will have to purchase a license for it....i wont just magically have the right to run it if i had a copy of winxp oem...doesnt work that way. Think of MAC OSX, my G/F is still on 10.1 i believe because she doesnt want to pay for the upgrade to the latest version. Windows could do the same.
Octave said:maybe it should be that its all retail, but you get a discount if you buy a processor/mobo or a full computer from dell or something. I think an OEM LICENSE is crap personally, as do many others, and i am willing ot bet that much much more than 50% of people who build their own computers are breaking the license agreement without knowing it....others knowing it
As for your theory that no one will ever need a new windows license...thats what the next version is for...DUH...like longhorn. When longhorn comes out....i will have to purchase a license for it....i wont just magically have the right to run it if i had a copy of winxp oem...doesnt work that way. Think of MAC OSX, my G/F is still on 10.1 i believe because she doesnt want to pay for the upgrade to the latest version. Windows could do the same.
OEM licenses are great for OEM's. It makes sense to be able to sell the OS at a discounted price when bundled with a PC. OEM licenses sold with a fan or audio cable online is a good policy reduced to the absurd. With a normal OEM agreement it is the buying power of the vendor that dictates the license cost. Dell sells about three billion PC's a week (est.), so by all rights they should have some pull with Microsoft. The OEM agreement satisfies Dell and Microsoft. The result for the consumer is that you can buy a Dell PC for a relatively low price with an OS installed. The protection for Microsoft is that you can't turn around and dump those OS licenses on the general public once that PC reaches the end of its useful life.
IMO OEM licenses should only be sold bundled with an OEM system that includes a mobo, CPU, RAM, and storage and is able to boot. OEM licenses don't belong on end-user built systems.
Why would you buy a retail Longhorn license if you could simply buy an upgrade to your OEM XP and transfer it to a new computer? Who would buy a full retail license ever if OEM licenses were transferrable?
The discount is supposed to be for "support" or lack there of. However, they are turning it into a "one use" license so people will re-up for the same code. Fortunatly they are not being dicks about handing out codes *yet* so it's not that big an issue.Octave said:
To answer your question, the license is tied to the mobo. The license never expires, you are allowed to replace *not upgrade* the mobo if it fails, that's covered in the OEM license. The fan/cable requirement is just for the sale of the license, not the use of it. If it fails, who gives a flying fuck.
End of the day we need to remember the rules of the boards, don't discuss illegal crap (not that we are, but it's one or two posts away from it since the OP
).rcolbert said:
And what if that CPU dies?..can u still use that OEM license?
how bout the mobo?
ram?
what if all three die within a few months and they are replaced right after the other...can you still run that copy of windows?
The reason i think the OEM license is crap is this:
When you buy a new computer, it makes sense that you would get a discount on the copy of windows that you would put on it...you agree with this. But say that computer slowly dies and you end up replacing everything one by one..upgrading just a little every time. By the OEM license, your version of windows is now illegal, because your computer decided to kill itself. This is what i think is flawed. You are not able to use license you purchased for windows now, because your hardware stopped working or was outdated or the like. I understand not being able to run windows on 2-5-8 computers or something, thats obvious piracy, but if your old computer is sitting in the closet with burn marks coming out of the case cause your PSU fried everything, why wouldnt you be able to buy replacement parts and put that copy of windows on your "new" computer?
S1nF1xx said:
and what if your mobo dies and you get a slightly different and newer model for 10 dollars more, but everything remains the same....why in the hell should you have to pay for a new copy of windows?
(luckily, i dont have to worry about that cause i bought windows through my school, and their agreement with microsoft is that its like retail)
Octave said:
That's just the deal. You get a cheap version of Windows, but it's more restrictive.
Like Phoenix86 said, if it bothers you, just buy the retail version
If you're going to be upgrading your mobo every year or two, buy retail. If you are going to build a computer for someone else, or don't plan on upgrading it, buy OEM.
hulksterjoe
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Octave said:
Your missing the point.. Microsoft says that you CANT JUST UPGRADE. If the mobo is defective and discontinued and you cant get it. Then the "next best thing" is the replacement. The whole reasoning behind it is from a Support stand point for OEM system builders. The EULA is based on them because they are 99% of the market not the guy who builds his own in his bedroom. Which is why they have a retail sku where they provide tech support.. you wanted to save money you bought an oem copy. you want to be an enthusaist and be legally allowed to do what you want, then pay retail...
Octave said:
Because the OEM copy of Windows was steeply discounted based on the understanding that it lives and dies with the one computer that it's intended for. If your computer dies and can't be repaired in accordance with the OEM licensing agreement then you buy another cheap copy of Windows OEM. You still haven't even come close to paying full retail yet.
One little exception to this, though, and I know from personal experience.S1nF1xx said:
IF, and only IF, the mobo in question died, and the exact same model is no longer available, your allowed to move it the equivalent motherboard to the one which died. Example:
KT133 goes the way of the dead cockroach. KT133 no longer available, but the KT266 is... I am allowed to move to the KT266 provided everything else stays the same. This is per MS, during the early days of WinXP.
However, as with all things MS, this is probably no longer true.
1st off, I dont own a copy of windoze xp OEM, well..i do, i just dont use it as i bought xp PRO instead from my school for cheap.
2nd, i dont believe the mobo makes up the entire computer, it might tie the parts together, but if you look at price, CPU is almost (almost) always the most expensive (not counting your 2x2405FPW's from dell..thats cheating)
3rd, and what you people seem to be missing, is im arguing for a change, not just that its stupid.
I dont believe you should be able to purchase a discounted OS just by purchasing a fan too, thats ridiculous, however i do believe in a discount for when you buy a mobo/processor combo or something, something of greater value. But i want whatever discount that is to go towards a retail copy of windoze rather than an OEM one that has to stay with that mobo, even when i throw it in a camp fire and then bury its smoldering remains in the woods.
Maybe all this could be fixed by microsoft releasing new versions of windows more often, maybe then i wouldnt get mad at the system...which, might i remind you, doesnt affect me as i dont have any oem's.
Another thing, and this is more directed at dell home. Let me buy a freakin computer without tagging an operating system on there for once. I dont want to have to buy from dell small biz just to get a blank computer and save the 80 bucks or whatever it is just to have a copy of MS windoze home ed sitting around not getting used.
Maybe after all of the posts, thats the only real thing im mad at.
*Case Closed*
as i bought xp PRO instead from my school for cheap.2nd, i dont believe the mobo makes up the entire computer, it might tie the parts together, but if you look at price, CPU is almost (almost) always the most expensive (not counting your 2x2405FPW's from dell..thats cheating)
3rd, and what you people seem to be missing, is im arguing for a change, not just that its stupid.
I dont believe you should be able to purchase a discounted OS just by purchasing a fan too, thats ridiculous, however i do believe in a discount for when you buy a mobo/processor combo or something, something of greater value. But i want whatever discount that is to go towards a retail copy of windoze rather than an OEM one that has to stay with that mobo, even when i throw it in a camp fire and then bury its smoldering remains in the woods.
Maybe all this could be fixed by microsoft releasing new versions of windows more often, maybe then i wouldnt get mad at the system...which, might i remind you, doesnt affect me as i dont have any oem's.
Another thing, and this is more directed at dell home. Let me buy a freakin computer without tagging an operating system on there for once. I dont want to have to buy from dell small biz just to get a blank computer and save the 80 bucks or whatever it is just to have a copy of MS windoze home ed sitting around not getting used.
Maybe after all of the posts, thats the only real thing im mad at.
*Case Closed*
Technically Windows is not windoze no matter how cool it makes you feel. However why would they bother? Dell makes an agreement with MS to sell them with every home computer for a wicked price discoutn, why would they risk or cancel that agreement to make 1 person happy?
Its odd.. Dell machines come with the Serial sticker on the box (this goes for any OEM really), yet the OS install is a volume license that doesn't need a serial number. Technically speaking, that Disk with the OS on it is useless without the serial number, therefore, you can do whatever you want with it. BUT, its got writing all over the package saying its only for the machine it came with.. That disk (or if you want to be specific, the license for the machine) costs dell less than 5 bucks per machine or something close too it.
The Dell XP disk I had worked on any machine. I remember the win9x disks were somehow tied to the hardware though, but I think they had the Dell restore files on the disk to start their Restore process, so it probably wasn't even the win9x install itself. That was before the Almight Gold Plated Holo Inscribed XP OEM disks came along.
The Dell XP disk I had worked on any machine. I remember the win9x disks were somehow tied to the hardware though, but I think they had the Dell restore files on the disk to start their Restore process, so it probably wasn't even the win9x install itself. That was before the Almight Gold Plated Holo Inscribed XP OEM disks came along.
hulksterjoe
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The load that is on a dell is a image that Dell creates and submits to Microsoft for review, it is based off the standard OEM load that comes from microsoft and thats why retail and volume keys dont work. Dell then Bios locks the motherboard with their "secret string of numbers/words" to which the image is keyed.. They can do this since they are participating in microsoft' "Royalty Software Agreement", of which there are currently around 65 members in the US, including Dell, Gateway, IBM, ETC ETC ,to automate their image loading process and offer a recovery solution rather then just a straight oem disk. They can offer you either a disk or a recovery partition/ make your own disk software package. BUT not both and then just adhere the coa to the case. These coa's also can now no longer be activated via the internet, Because people would see that the system was running on a "VOLUME" key and then sell the sticker and other people would manual type in the COA and activate and that was a form of "piracy/double dipping" If the bios lock on the motherboard is removed, either by replacing the board or flashing your BIOS (which may or may not wipe the lock). Then the customer will need to use the sticker on the side of the box to type in the COA when windows asks for it, or on subsequent reloads if the original MOBO isnt present.
Monkey34
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The OEM's probably do it about the same way no matter who it is. I remember the Compaq disk I had, would not install to anything but a Compaq. The disk ran a DOS install proggie that MUST have checked the bios or something.
JL_Audio_User
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Monkey34 said:
I borrowed a Dell XP disc and installed it into my old VAIO system and had no problems. That system is dead and gone but incompatibility had nothing to do with it