Best Computer Speakers?!? Clarity, Clarity!

are you using a good USB cable and one with the Ferrite core things on the ends?

you might want to try hooking the speakers upto and external usb hub (self powered) and try swapping cables before deciding to return them.
 
atarione said:
are you using a good USB cable and one with the Ferrite core things on the ends?

you might want to try hooking the speakers upto and external usb hub (self powered) and try swapping cables before deciding to return them.
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Are you suggesting that a digital cable causes hissing in his speakers?
 
Neutrino said:
Are you suggesting that a digital cable causes hissing in his speakers?
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i am suggesting that some sort of interference from something inside the case or near the cable could be yes.

I have experienced it at first hand with my Focusrite scarlett which had hissing if my laptop's power supply was plugged in... unless I plugged the scarlett into a powered usb hub instead.
 
I see what you are saying. But even if that cable has interference due to a ungrounded case or somthing it still goes into the dac....how would that translate to hissing
 
Well it's weird. I have them (MM1's) plugged into my ZxR via Aux and they sound good. When I plugged the USB into the motherboard for the speakers they started hissing. (Almost like TV white noise). So I put that USB cable away all and said screw it I have a sound card that has an amp anyway so I'll just keep using Aux...

Today during lunch break I plugged the USB back into the speaker and plugged the USB into the front of the computer case instead of straight into motherboard and there is no hissing noise at all! So now it's connected Via Aux and USB with no issues.

The question I have is what does the USB do for the speakers anyway? Does it power the internal DAC? Also since my soundcard has built on amp do I need to have the USB plugged in or can I just use Aux? And if so what difference will it make if any if I don't use USB since I already have the aux going... Another question is if I use USB does it bypass the sound card in the computer and play off the motherboard sound???? Sorry I'm rather confused.
 
if you use the aux you are using your pc's sound card

if you use usb you are using the DAC (soundcard) built into the speakers


so it seems as if my guess that interference was the source of the hissing sound may well be right... been there.... anyways

If it was me I'd mess about with the usb and aux a bit and see which one sounds better to you..
 
I would use the digital input. The analog input does a ADC conversion, so it ends up going through the DSP and DAC anyway, just with an added conversion step which is almost never beneficial.
 
Glad you were able the hissing problem, it seems that atarione was correct. This really IMO should not happen but who knows how they design their components.


Btw i still think you should try visiting a guitar center to listen to some of those monitors
 
If you don't plan to use a receiver/AMP etc... (ie want to connect your sound card directly to speakers etc), you'll need powered speakers. Allow me to suggest AudioEngine as a great option, specifically the Audioengine 5+ if you can afford them (~$350 for 2 of the Bamboo version)

I have a pair of the 5+ Bamboo as my primary PC speakers now and they're fantastic, especially for the price and without the need of a receiver. If the 5+ is too expensive or too large (they are bookshelf sized, not desktop) the AudioEngine 2 are both cheaper and smaller while still putting forth great quality. Links..

http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-A5plus

I'm actually trying to decide on my next step if I want to build out my A5+s into a 5.1 system, but this is the first time I've found PC speakers of such quality that I didn't feel I really needed to invest in 5.1 to get great, full sound. (I had an old set of Klipsch Ultra 5.1s prior to my 5+). Oh, and for record I am connecting them to my Asus Xonar Xense sound card.
 
Alright guys I played around with the sound card and with just the speakers and I can honestly say the speakers sound more natural and better without the sound card. Now I am pissed off, do I need to return the sound card???
 
You havent decided if you are keeping the speakers yet.
If the issue is that the analogue input to these speakers converts the audio back to digital so it can work with the speakers internals, then effectively, it is going from the PC through a DAC, into an ADC and then out of another DAC.
Each conversion loses detail and changes the sound, not for the better.
The Digital feed (USB) is digital out of the PC into the speakers internals and then goes through only one DAC.

That is most likely why it sounds better using USB, its not that the soundcard is bad, its that it doesnt suit those speakers.
If you get different speakers, they may have a direct analogue feed through without converting back to digital.
Dont be hasty.
 
Well, if the MM1s are pretty much the only thing new you've heard recently, it probably wouldn't kill you to listen some other options before any sort of return policy expires. You may very well end up keeping the MM1s, but from reading over some of your posts it looks like you're having doubts. Listening to other options will either remove those doubts or bring about some better sounding options, and you'll be in better shape either way.

I like the recommendation to get in touch with some local pro audio or music stores and see what they have for studio monitors in your price range.
 
Why not get a set of the KEF Q300B over the KEF X300A

Then spend the remaining $50 on a T-amp.

T-amps sound very good, take up no space...

Then you are not tied down to powered monitors.

And I wouldn't get those B&Ws

Lol. I saw a set of B&W 802 series with the diamond tweeter for $825 I posted on this thread

And you're considering a set of glorified B&W computer speakers for $500

It's your money, spend it how you want. The B&W computer speakers are bottom rung. The 802 series is top rung. There is an absolute chasm of difference between the two.

I'm not saying it's practical for you to get the 802 series, it isn't. But why not look at used? Get some real speakers that will give you a lifetime of pleasure over a set of powered computer monitors you will get bored with after a year. If you want new, get the KEFs, but get the bookshelves, don't get the powered monitors, you have no flexibilty, they will always be computer speakers and you will not be able to expand your setup. You are limiting yourself.
 
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All MM1s hiss loudly, regardless of the input. If you don't hear it with aux, it's probably one of the newer firmware that mutes the speakers before playback. All you have to do is go to a Best Buy Magnolia or an Apple Store and hear them in all their hissing glory, lol.

I have one pair for travel speakers only, they are decent near-field provided they are far enough that you don't hear the hiss. Also the hiss is pretty directional so if you sit way above the speakers you usually won't notice them in a large room. In a small room, it's pretty audible though.

The hissing is due to the noise floor being raised from very heavy DSP. It's pretty common in heavily DSP'd speakers amplified by low-end Class-D, like Sherwood's R-9xx series.

The KEF X300A is probably leagues above the B&W MM-1s.
 
I've been very pleased with my Alesis M1 Active Mk2 monitors.
My pair are about 13 years old now.
 
Matteos cracks me up..

You can replace powered monitors with some other speakers just as easily as you would with traditional speakers. Most active monitors are specially designed for close listening - regular stand speakers are _not_ designed for this.

Spend your money on Genelec instead of B&W. Genelec is specialized in this stuff, B&W is specialized in passive hi-fi.
 
Enthusiast Extreme said:
So if I have a sound card with an amp I really have to be looking for speakers with no built in DAC?
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Not necessarily.
If there is a way of feeding analogue in direct to the internal analogue amp (maybe through an analogue volume/pre amp), then it doesnt matter if there is an internal DAC as it will be bypassed.
Its hard to know if this is possible because most reviews only test the quality of one input so you dont find out if any shenanigans are afoot on the other.
Also, there are DACs which can beat the quality of PC soundcards, but its hard to know what is inside many of the amplified speakers.

If you want a guarantee of all that you are buying and how they are connected, get separate speakers/amp/DAC, upgrade one at a time as they improve or budget permits.
But if amplified speakers are good enough through one connection method and you dont intend to use the other, it may not matter.

Consider this though.
If you will ever use these speakers as part of a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, you will need to use the analogue in.
Digital in is useless for this config as it cant be split between sets of speakers.
 
Not all speakers with internal DACs will do a ADC to etc. to DAC conversion. The MM-1s require the ADC step since their whole premise is built around a DSP. Many, if not most, active speakers with internal DACs will not have this restriction.
 
I settled on the MM-1 a few years ago. I had wanted to use studio monitors for my computer speakers, but I found the low frequency drone of their amps too much. At least among the selection on display at Guitar Center back then...

The MM-1 does a great job as a desktop speaker as they should for that price. Nice clean sound. If one can go bigger or more elaborate in their speaker set up, than better sound can of course be had. However, the MM-1 does what I was looking for.

Would consider the digital connection essential. As Tesla indicates, that's a key part of their design. Not sure what to say about the hiss. Mine don't noticeably. However, others have mentioned the same issue.

Here's something from last December I saw recently when looking around: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/bowers-wilkins-mm-1-desktop-computer-speakers

Kind of thought there would be an MM-2 by now...

(As to aesthetics, they're a good match for iMacs as is known. However, I like my speakers without the covers. A little harder with the MM-1's but a Dremel tool helped...)
 
The hiss was likely a grounding or EMI issue either due to a transfer via the IO shield from the video cards (or etc.) or via the internal header cables and/or the front panel PCB itself. (In the case of the OP, it looks like the former.)

One would like to believe that USB, being digital, is immune to such issues, but USB still has its own ground so such immunity all depends on the USB implementation on the other end. This doesn't have to be, mind you, but apparently the MM-1 must not fully guard against this.
 
B00nie said:
Matteos cracks me up..

You can replace powered monitors with some other speakers just as easily as you would with traditional speakers. Most active monitors are specially designed for close listening - regular stand speakers are _not_ designed for this.

Spend your money on Genelec instead of B&W. Genelec is specialized in this stuff, B&W is specialized in passive hi-fi.
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:rolleyes:

I give up on this forum.
 
matteos said:
:rolleyes:

I give up on this forum.
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No no, don't give up.

Just explain why in your opinion it would be any harder to replace an active speaker with another one compared to a passive speaker?

Active monitors are specially designed just for the type of use kind of which computer speakers are typically used for. With a passive solution you're going to be stuck with some el-cheapo amp (let's face it, nobody's going to buy high-end for a computer) and get stuck with how the speaker came out from the factory.

With an active solution you get extremely cost effective and easy solution with built-in (and optimized for the speaker) amps with protection circuits, active crossovers and adjustments. If you wanted to get anywhere close to the same situation with a passive solution you'd need a high quality amp, a multichannel equalizer and mid-to-high cost hi-fi speakers. Together they'll cost way more than the active setup and still you're stuck with a passive box speaker that has no overload protection and which are designed to be listened 1,5+ meters away -not at your desk.
 
B00nie said:
No no, don't give up.

Just explain why in your opinion it would be any harder to replace an active speaker with another one compared to a passive speaker?

Active monitors are specially designed just for the type of use kind of which computer speakers are typically used for. With a passive solution you're going to be stuck with some el-cheapo amp (let's face it, nobody's going to buy high-end for a computer) and get stuck with how the speaker came out from the factory.

With an active solution you get extremely cost effective and easy solution with built-in (and optimized for the speaker) amps with protection circuits, active crossovers and adjustments. If you wanted to get anywhere close to the same situation with a passive solution you'd need a high quality amp, a multichannel equalizer and mid-to-high cost hi-fi speakers. Together they'll cost way more than the active setup and still you're stuck with a passive box speaker that has no overload protection and which are designed to be listened 1,5+ meters away -not at your desk.
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Exactly what I was thinking... :D
 
What kind of amplification do you have in active speakers? At best it isn't going to top a $30 t-amp. Unless you are spending $$$$

I don't know why you think the amps in powered monitors are even good (unless you drop some coin).

If you separate things then when it comes to upgrade you are only upgrading one thing. Whether that is a speaker, a pre-amp or an amp etc. When everything is bundled together you are replacing everything if you decide to upgrade. With a powered monitor everything is combined. Therefore when you wish to upgrade you have to replace everything and it is more expensive.
 
B00nie said:
Matteos cracks me up..

You can replace powered monitors with some other speakers just as easily as you would with traditional speakers. Most active monitors are specially designed for close listening - regular stand speakers are _not_ designed for this.

Spend your money on Genelec instead of B&W. Genelec is specialized in this stuff, B&W is specialized in passive hi-fi.
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Explain how two speakers of similar size. One is passive, one is active... How the active is better for "nearfield" listening than the passive????

You don't know what you're talking about.
 
matteos said:
Explain how two speakers of similar size. One is passive, one is active... How the active is better for "nearfield" listening than the passive????

You don't know what you're talking about.
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It seems you don't. Study a little about dispersion patterns of butterworth and 24db/oct linkwitz riley for example. Passive boxes typically use butterworth and 2nd order due to high cost of component and complexity of passive design.

Monitors are designed from ground up to provide an accurate sound to near field, simple as that.

Also with active speakers the amps don't even need to be over engineered since they don't have to deal with a gazillion unknown variables which are caused by speaker cables and drivers combined to the passive crossover network.
 
i don't want to get too much in the middle of this cluster

however I have had the luxury of having gone through a ton on passive speakers and a fair number of power amps for my near field listening and due to the layout of my (old computer desk I was able to compare the sound nearfield and further out.


I own (or owned) a couple passive bookshelf speakers that I think are not at all suited for near field listening

my JBL L1s sound much better if you can get them back a ways, my Klipsch KG2.5's not so great near field. Also I had (sold to a buddy) some B&W V202 bookshelf speakers that also didn't do so well near field.


however My Polk monitor 30 IIS (not using them now) , JBL J2500 (not using at pc desk now), NHT SuperZero's (using now) and Monitor Audio Silver S1's and also a whole bunch of Realistic / Optimus Minimus 7 (and related speakers) all sound (to my ears) quite good near field /very similar to how they sound if you get back from them some.

my motivation for using passive speakers was mainly initially cheapness (I owned the monitor 30s so a little t-amp was the most cost effective and compact way i could find to deploy them as my pc speakers.


then I LOST MY F***ing mind (joking sort of) and became very interested in vintage / used audio gear and so now I am / have driven my various speakers with a fairly large number of used / vintage amps and receivers.

being interested in these amps and receivers clearly passive speakers are what I need.

however I didn't blindly choose them i have many friends / relatives with home studios so have listen to a large number of powered studio monitors and while some of them are quite nice and some of them would be a very valid route to choose for pc speakers some of them are f***ing god awful (imho) for any sort of listening for enjoyment ... they may well be very good for what they are meant for (mixing) but they are not fun to listen too...

Something else I love about the way I have done this (besides I have done this way on the cheap)... my Monitor audio Silver's cost me $11 hahaha (condition issues, I have mostly sorted now but they looked rough when I got them) is when something new comes along find a kewl amp or speaker or whatever grab it and swap out the one piece. If I had gone with active speakers should a kewl new set of active speakers come along I would need to just boxed up what I had and store or sell it and basically replace the lot (since the amp and whatnot is all onboard.).


I personally believe some people's concerns over using passive bookshelf speakers near field is quite overblown indeed... You need to give things a listen (passive and active) as what sounds great to you may sound like garbage to me and vice verse certainly.


I really do love used gear from a value and thrill of the hunt perspective great fun and I enjoy tidying these things up and getting them sounding right again.

here is my desk

Kenwood KR-V106R ($20)
Pioneer SX-3600 ($70)
Optimus Pro-X44AV ($10pr)
Optimus Pro X5 ($10pr)
NHT SuperZero ($50~shipped)
Monitor Audio Silver S1 ($11.25)

so all in i have a ton of fantastic looking (imho) and sounding (imho) audio gear for about $171 just super really.

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