What has happened to PC laptops?

C

chx

Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
698
There was a time when ThinkPads, high-end HPs and Dells were the absolute best laptops money could buy. Now you look around and realize that while there are under 2kg / 4.5lbs, 15" 1080p PC laptops (Sony VAIO SE, Panasonic B10/B11), they just suck extension wise, GPU wise and battery wise. The Macbook Pro Retina, even regardless of that jaw-dropping screen simply destroys them spec-wise. WTF has happened here?
 
chx said:
There was a time when ThinkPads, high-end HPs and Dells were the absolute best laptops money could buy. Now you look around and realize that while there are under 2kg / 4.5lbs, 15" 1080p PC laptops (Sony VAIO SE, Panasonic B10/B11), they just suck extension wise, GPU wise and battery wise. The Macbook Pro Retina, even regardless of that jaw-dropping screen simply destroys them spec-wise. WTF has happened here?
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MBP is also $2200+
 
chx said:
The Macbook Pro Retina, even regardless of that jaw-dropping screen simply destroys them spec-wise. WTF has happened here?
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Beyond the screen there's not a lot of difference in the MBPR and other machines in that price range, in fact you can get faster hardware for that price in a PC. And I think that machines coming out with Windows 8 are going to step it up a notch.
 
That's what happens when the majority of customers want to spend sub $500 on a laptop. Plastic cases, crap quality, components, etc.



Time Mage said:
MBP is also $2200+
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The high end MBP is, but they start at $1199. The low end machine is a nice machine for the money.
 
timta2 said:
The high end MBP is, but they start at $1199. The low end machine is a nice machine for the money.
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I used $2200 because he was talking about high end/retina display. Though yeah there are definitely cheaper options but at $1200 I'd rather go for Zenbook Prime.
 
The current Dell Precision Workstation laptops are pretty awesome.

http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/precision-laptops.aspx?c=us&cs=ussoho1&l=en&s=soho&~ck=mn

We got a couple of the M4600s for the Solidworks people where I work and they are crazy awesome for the price... of course we get them a bit cheaper than normal because we have a premier account with special discounts.

I really wanted them to get the M6600s for the bigger screen, but they didn't want to spend the extra money.

The M4600 comes stock with an ATI Firepro 5950 which is faster than the optional "upgrade" to a Quadro.
 
Yes, the $2200 price is there but if you that the list price of, say the Lenovo T530 is $1500. As for that Dell mobile workstation, it's an above 6lbs machine and yet it has significantly less expansion options.

What I am saying is this: there is no money that buys a PC laptop like the Retina Macbook even if you don't care about screen just extensibility / weight. This was not the case in the past, definitely not.
 
You aren't looking in the right places. HP's Elitebook and Dell's Precision lines easily compete (and in most cases, absolutely destroy) MacBooks.

Yes, Apple wins in terms on thinness / weight per spec... but they also massively overcharge and put their machines together with doublesided tape. No thanks. I made that mistake once with a MacBook Air. Never again.
 
I don't have a laptop, but if I were to buy one, it would be a mac for build quality and portability. To me (and apparently a lot of other people) these are the most critical aspects of need in laptop purchasing.
 
MBP build quality is no better than any business class notebook line from Lenovo, Dell etc. And oh can easily get better specs for the same price, especially in a few months as pc prices keep dropping. In fact I'd say Macs aren't really all that reliable once you look past all the hype such as the unibody.
 
Dan_D said:
And it won't be updated in six months. And at that time it will still be $2200 and tons of machines will destroy it for less money.
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Which creates a side effect of retaining its value. I sold my original macbook for 60% of what I bought it for 3 years later. You'd have a hard time even giving away a 3 year old pc laptop
 
MBP build quality is actually shit, because they glue everything together now. If the display breaks on the new Retina MBPs or a MacBook Air you know what Apple does? Replaces the whole top of the machine. What should be a $100-200 repair becomes a $600+ repair because they put something together so poorly that they themselves refuse to service it and just replace the whole thing.

Oh, and that $250+ AppleCare warranty you just bought? Doesn't cover LCD damage for /any reason/ as it is always deemed accidental. Crack in your Air screen due to zero gap between the wrist rest and screen, so even a little dirt can crack it? (Common problem, terrible design defect, those rubber bumpers are on every other laptop display for a reason.) Tough shit, either pay $600 to repair a $900 machine or go fuck yourself, that's what Apple says.

Meanwhile I just got a year extension (from 3 years to 4 default instead of 1 to 3 -- pathetic support yet again from Apple) that gives me accident protection as well from HP... for the same price.

So why do they glue everything? Not to save weight or because it actually works better. No, I read an interview with their head of design, and you know what he said? "People don't like screw holes." I will gladly take some goddamn screw holes if it means basic LCD damage doesn't turn my machine in to a paperweight or cost me 3/4 of what I paid for it to repair, and I bet even the fanboys would be onboard with that.

Of course if you go in to an Apple store and act like an idiot they may take pity on you and replace it outside of warranty. Was I so lucky? No. Is this policy? Hell no, as I was told time and again. This is the difference between Apple and other companies; you're relying on them being "nice," where for others you're just dealing with policy, to get the same end result. I've got news -- they're a corporation, and you know what they like? Making tons of cash. For every happy story you hear, I can guarantee another five to ten people got screwed with zero recourse. The trick is, most of them are wealthy enough and like the product enough that they just went and bought a new one. Must be nice.

Apple is also the only major player in the laptop game to not offer any form of accident protection on their laptops. I wonder why this is? Oh right -- because they're terribly built.

Ryan711 said:
Which creates a side effect of retaining its value. I sold my original macbook for 60% of what I bought it for 3 years later. You'd have a hard time even giving away a 3 year old pc laptop
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So... you sold your laptop to an idiot on Craigslist for 3-4x what I was worth? Good for you, shame on the idiot.
 
Ryan711 said:
Which creates a side effect of retaining its value. I sold my original macbook for 60% of what I bought it for 3 years later. You'd have a hard time even giving away a 3 year old pc laptop
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It only retains value because people are idiots. I'm sorry but when I can buy a much better spec'ed machine 6 months down the road for the same or less money, that Apple Macbook isn't worth nearly as much to me. I'd never buy a used laptop anyway, but I won't over pay for older equipment. People who do aren't terribly bright.
 
Dan_D said:
It only retains value because people are idiots. I'm sorry but when I can buy a much better spec'ed machine 6 months down the road for the same or less money, that Apple Macbook isn't worth nearly as much to me. I'd never buy a used laptop anyway, but I won't over pay for older equipment. People who do aren't terribly bright.
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Tell it son!

People are dumb as shit. I know a dumbass that just paid $800 for a C2D macbook with 4GB of RAM. "DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR but it's teh applez, they last longer!!! Why is it so slow? Why is your Windowz so fast???"
 
Its not just about intelligence though. Apple has built a tremendous reputation for quality, beauty and usability and it just creates an emotional attachment to their products. Sure a Windows laptop might have better specs and run faster but Windows is perceived as full of bugs, unstable and Windows laptops, mostly cheap plastic.

I think this is the main reason why Microsoft is building Surface tablets, to attach an identity of beauty and quality to Widows that it currently lacks.
 
heatlesssun said:
Its not just about intelligence though. Apple has built a tremendous reputation for quality, beauty and usability and it just creates an emotional attachment to their products. Sure a Windows laptop might have better specs and run faster but Windows is perceived as full of bugs, unstable and Windows laptops, mostly cheap plastic.

I think this is the main reason why Microsoft is building Surface tablets, to attach an identity of beauty and quality to Widows that it currently lacks.
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That's perception built on second and third hand knowledge passed down for over a decade. It isn't the truth.
 
Dan_D said:
That's perception built on second and third hand knowledge passed down for over a decade. It isn't the truth.
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It is the truth. When I go into Best Buy, like a lot of other people and look at laptops, the macs easily outstrip everything else there. Build quality and aesthetics do matter. People are going to choose aluminum and glass over plastic any day. It exudes quality. Most people don't care that it might be marginally slower, they aren't using laptops for gaming or intensive work.
 
Q1DM6 said:
It is the truth. When I go into Best Buy, like a lot of other people and look at laptops, the macs easily outstrip everything else there. Build quality and aesthetics do matter. People are going to choose aluminum and glass over plastic any day. It exudes quality. Most people don't care that it might be marginally slower, they aren't using laptops for gaming or intensive work.
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I've done plenty of hardware repairs on Mac laptops. Trust me, their hardware isn't better. I don't care how pretty it looks.
 
Dan_D said:
I've done plenty of hardware repairs on Mac laptops. Trust me, their hardware isn't better. I don't care how pretty it looks.
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Some of it is actually worse.

People are suckers for looks and status.
 
Also their form over function type aesthetics make them a pain in the ass to work on at times. Once you've been inside them you quickly discover that they aren't built any better than anything else.
 
Dan_D said:
Also their form over function type aesthetics make them a pain in the ass to work on at times. Once you've been inside them you quickly discover that they aren't built any better than anything else.
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The iMacs are fun to work on, using tile laying suction cups to get the screen glass off and then slowly pulling parts off to get the HDD swapped out.

IMG_20120316_115058.jpg


I was shocked at the amount of tape all over the place holding shit together.

No different than any other OEM AIO, just 3x the price.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not saying that it is the truth but as the cliche goes perception is reality.
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Yeah no. Peoples perceptions of things usually stem from their own ignorance. My perceptions of the Medical Service Industry are heavily skewed by the Medical TV shows. I really know shit about it.
 
That time must have been no more than 6 months ago. I picked up a fully loaded Dell 17" XPS for under $1,100. The only the thing the new MacBook has over it is a retina display and Ivy Bridge. neither of which are worth double the cost on a laptop that you can't even upgrade the memory in.
 
Q1DM6 said:
It is the truth. When I go into Best Buy, like a lot of other people and look at laptops, the macs easily outstrip everything else there. Build quality and aesthetics do matter. People are going to choose aluminum and glass over plastic any day. It exudes quality. Most people don't care that it might be marginally slower, they aren't using laptops for gaming or intensive work.
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Know what my EliteBook is made of? Magnesium alloy. Aluminum is for suckers.
 
silent-circuit said:
Know what my EliteBook is made of? Magnesium alloy. Aluminum is for suckers.
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But aluminum is cheaper. Apple cuts corners but it's much more strategic about it. They don't skimp on screens because that's the thing that you're always looking at. They will skimp on cooling in favor of aesthetics.
 
heatlesssun said:
But aluminum is cheaper. Apple cuts corners but it's much more strategic about it. They don't skimp on screens because that's the thing that you're always looking at. They will skimp on cooling in favor of aesthetics.
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While they may nto skimp on the screens, I'm not a fan of all the glossy screens in general. I can't stand that crap. It makes little sense on a portable unit subject to sunlight, office lighting, etc. But Apple isn't the only manufacturer that's guilty of doing this. Not by a long shot.
 
MBPs are designed to look and feel like they were designed to take abuse. ThinkPads and EliteBooks are actually designed to take abuse.
 
Radical said:
MBPs are designed to look and feel like they were designed to take abuse. ThinkPads and EliteBooks are actually designed to take abuse.
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Think pads are actually built well. I've had a few of them and they've held up well.
 
The issue is that when people walk into Best Buy, they won't see the Thinkpads or the Elitebooks or the Latitudes, because all of those are marketed towards businesses and aren't sold retail. 90% of the stuff there is flashy cheap plastic garbage that give people a poor impression compared to the aluminum Macbook Pros they have there. Sure, there are a few higher end laptops there, but most are priced at similar levels as the MBPs.
 
schizrade said:
This. Currently rocking a X220. Anti-Design represent.
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My current personal laptop is the x220t convertible tablet running Windows 8. Except for the track pad Windows 8 is great on this thing. And the matte screen deals with fingerprints well.
 
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