Enterprise Drives vs Consumer

If you want to talk about something objective, like Dell overnights drives on warranty for free, longer warranties, just general support...that is worth some people's money. The drives still use the same technology inside. There is so much in the enterprise world that is clearly price-gouged. Hard drives is one of them. Server chassis are another. They have high prices because they've learned that anything is priceless to the latest wasteful business model anymore. If it costs more, it must be necessary :rolleyes:

Now tell me..what is this ...this.."price gouging" you're talking about?
Are enterprise drives generally more costly than their mid ranged 3 year desktop counterparts? Yes.
Are those 3 year mid ranged desktop drives more expensive than the white box OEM 1 year el cheapo drives? Yes!

You get what you pay for.
Now the terms I used before...describing some internal parts of the drives, if they confused you, Google is your friend. But part of what business owners like, is some form of accountability, promise, warranty, something that stands behind a product. If the majority of a businesses livelyhood lives on a server..and needs constant access...aka "reliability"..you want to build that server with parts that are expected to be as problem free for a long period of time as can be. These apparently confusing thing called a "warranty" is part of that experience. There is also a measuring tool to quantify the length of life of a hard drive..called "MTBF"...you may want to look up how manufacturers come up with these ratings. It's based on how well similar drives, or drives before this model, that had the same components..faired in the real world. They look at all the components inside of the drives. There are a lot of different parts. Production batches. Parts of varying quality..some cheap, some midrange, some heavier duty and higher priced.

When you see an MTBF rating of say, 600,000 hours (a typical mid-ranged 3 year hard drive rating)...that doesn't mean the hard drive is expected to last running for 600,000 hours. (a little over 68 years). They can't test of drive for that long of a time, right? So they test a large batch of them, like 1,000 of them. They run the large batch test for say, 1,000 hours. And count how many of those 1,000 drives failed during that test. The MTBF rating is an accumulation of success of the remaining drives.

If one drive out of the batch that ran for 600,000 hours...one failure out of about 68 is the expected failure rate.

It gives you an approximate rating to compare this family of drives against others with.

As for getting to the nitty gritty of comparing parts and components used....would you be able to follow if I illustrated the difference between a Ford F-150 pickup or GMC 1500 series or RAM 1500 series...against the 350/3500/3500 counterparts...if you were to lease a fleet of trucks for a 5 year project at a big construction site that put them under heavy usage for 24x7x365?
 
Yeah, cool, just approximations to justify something. More statistical bullshit to try to make a point, instead of reality. I didn't realize buying a drive without cables (OEM) means less quality :rolleyes: Price gouging is $1000 for a 2 TB hard drive (HP) just because it has a hot-swap thing on it and is labeled as enterprise. Does HP even make their own drives?
 
I don't see any $1000 2TB drives on HP's site or on CDW. Did find these, however:

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/HP-Midline-hard-drive-2-TB-SATA-300/2006325.aspx
HP Midline - hard drive - 2 TB - SATA-300
Mfg. Part: AW556A | CDW Part: 2006325 | UNSPSC: 43201803
Hard drive - 2 TB - 3.5" - SATA-300 - 7200 rpm

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/HP-hard-drive-2-TB-SAS/2037770.aspx
HP hard drive - 2 TB - SAS
Mfg. Part: 574761-B21 | CDW Part: 2037770 | UNSPSC: 43201803
Hard drive - 2 TB - internal - 3.5" - SAS - 7200 rpm - ( 6 GB Flash )

And no, HP doesn't make their own drives? Does Dell? Hell, IBM doesn't make their own drives anymore. But they will all gladly sell you drives from other manufactures that are built to their specifications for probably more than you should pay.
 
The more the capacity grows the less reliable things seem to be getting,

Funny I was going to make a post about that. This is something I've noticed as well.

I have a 60 gig drive I use as a door stop (no, seriously!) and it STILL WORKS! It's been used in like 3 PCs, from an AMD 2000+ I built almost 10 years ago, to an early Athlon 64 based machine. Was also used as an external drive for a long time. Has MANY hours on it. Now the drive is retired because it's kinda useless by today's standards being IDE, but it still works. I can pop it in my external enclosure and it will work flawlessly. I can say the same for any old drive I have lying around, that one is just an example.

I find drives 1TB and bigger are very unreliable. Every time I buy a new drive I end up RMAing it a couple times before I finally get one that works, and once I do, down the line it will probably fail. Before, drives used to outlast a typical computer system before it was due for upgrade, now computer systems go through many drives before they need to be upgraded.

Nobody has really proven it yet, but if enterprise drives really are worth the money, it's something I'm willing to buy. Though, when talking enterprise drives, are we talking about the ones you can buy at newegg and such that say Enterprise or are we talking about ones you'd buy through Dell, IBM, HP etc? Are they the same? The ones from newegg are not that much more expensive, but the ones from Dell, IBM etc usually cost 10x the cost of a standard drive.
 
I've always used enterprise drives in customers setups. Most higher end servers require 10-15k SAS drives for fast i/o performance for db/sql work and soforth.. not really much choice there.
Standard WD blacks tend to give problems in raid setups (as mentioned - firmware) so you really don't have a choice.. i'd rather not mess with the firmware pending warranty issues in the future.
As a small business tech, I just want stuff to work - I don't want to have to go onsite to a customer site over and over again cause they bought sh*tty hardware. We have new customers with WD green drives in their "servers" - which we've made the strong recommendation for new hardware. If they don't switch over, we will drop them as customers.. we're not going to deal with that crap when it breaks.

For non-RAID setups, WD blacks are perfectly fine. Workstations are the only use for those though. Any server I install will have a RAID1 OS / RAID5 or ZFS setup for data if it's a local storage server (single purpose, non-VM etc)

As for internals and differences, you guys could debate that until your face turns blue - you can't prove otherwise.
 
I was referring to this. So I guess NewEgg price gouges some things. If I had the money I would spend maybe $500 on a 2 TB enterprise drive, and mainly just for the turnaround time of getting a new one overnight or in 2 days. My $80 Hitachi 5k3000 green drives do just fine with my RAID controller.
 
When it's said that some drives do bad in raid, does that exclude software raid? That's all I run on my home servers as it's cheaper and easier to recover should something go wrong. (Linux md raid)
 
It's always meant to mean hardware RAID, or actual RAID cards. Enterprise cards :D Onboard RAID controllers pretty much do fine with any or most drives, and software RAID should be perfect with any drive (granted it works fine with the system.)
 
I was referring to this. So I guess NewEgg price gouges some things. If I had the money I would spend maybe $500 on a 2 TB enterprise drive, and mainly just for the turnaround time of getting a new one overnight or in 2 days. My $80 Hitachi 5k3000 green drives do just fine with my RAID controller.

You know that same drive is 560$ from HP, right? What's so bad about buying directly?

I know when I buy stuff from Dell and HP, I get discounts because of bulk buys and a corporate credit card.
 
It's always meant to mean hardware RAID, or actual RAID cards. Enterprise cards :D Onboard RAID controllers pretty much do fine with any or most drives, and software RAID should be perfect with any drive (granted it works fine with the system.)

That's good to hear. I do all mdraid so I should be fine then. I plan to build a SAN down the road. While hardware raid has it's advantages, for my case software raid makes more sense.
 
Yeah, cool, just approximations to justify something. More statistical bullshit to try to make a point, instead of reality. I didn't realize buying a drive without cables (OEM) means less quality :rolleyes: Price gouging is $1000 for a 2 TB hard drive (HP) just because it has a hot-swap thing on it and is labeled as enterprise. Does HP even make their own drives?

That is HP jacking the price up, all OEM's do that, because they test the drivers and make sure they work, because if not, it is money out of HPs pocket on returns., HP does it, Dell, Apple, all of them jack up harddrive, ram prices.

I was referring to this. So I guess NewEgg price gouges some things. If I had the money I would spend maybe $500 on a 2 TB enterprise drive, and mainly just for the turnaround time of getting a new one overnight or in 2 days. My $80 Hitachi 5k3000 green drives do just fine with my RAID controller.


Thats great, and now when your $80 green drive fails in a business environment because it couldn't handle the I/O requests people were flooding it with. and you need it replaced before another drive in your raid array dies (because you don't have a spare on site for some reason), you can have fun waiting 3 weeks for an RMA where an enterprise drive you will likely have that same day or the next morning and during those 3 weeks worry about if you could have a job if another drive dies and you loose the company money because you choose to go cheap.

Enterprise level hardware gives people some safety of knowing they will receive better support and better tested hardware.

i love how you just claim "statistical bullshit" because you don't believe it, it is not bullshit, it is fact.
 
When did I claim I use my drive in a business environment? My needs are storage space, not IO or speed. If I only needed a few TB of space I would probably buy more expensive drives.
 
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