Windows 7 Fonts Look Jagged with ClearType On or Off

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Prof.Fulcanelli

n00b
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
12
Hello,

I have recently bought a new computer DELL Studio XP 8100, Sapphire HD 5750 1 GB video card (latest driver installed) Windows 7 Ultimate, and was shocked how bad the fonts look on Win. 7 compared to my old DELL running Windows XP. The fonts on Win. XP look perfect - sharp and crisp, but on Win 7 they look jagged (especially headlines that use big letters).

I am not 100% sure, but I am pretty sure its Win. 7's fault. How did I come to this conclusion? On the same system I have installed Windows XP Mode, the following screen grabs were taken from the same system, both browsers were open side-by-side, one running on Win. 7 and the other running from Windows XP Mode. Why does Win. 7 render fonts in this way and how can it be fixed? Thank you.

huffwin7.jpg

huffxp.jpg

ddwin7.jpg

ddxp.jpg

unwin7.jpg

unxp.jpg

ddwin7.jpg

ddxp.jpg
 
I can't say I have that problem with windows 7. Do you have all the windows updates and drivers (mobo, etc) updated?
 
Indeed. My best guess would be monitor drivers. GPU drivers I doubt, since I'm running Win7 on a Sapphire 5770 without any such issues. I haven't seen these issues on any computer or monitor I've had running Win7, so I'm not sure what the cause could b.
 
You might also try out a little program called GDI++. It brings more Mac-style font rendering to Windows. I prefer it, and it definitely eliminates the "jaggies". Some don't like it because it "extra bolds" some fonts and thins-out others.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that replacing a core Windows 7 DLL with a file developed by an unknown 3rd-party and not updated in over 3 years (i.e since the release of Vista) is an EXTRAORDINARILY bad idea from a security, usability, and functionality point of view.
 
Yes, everything is updated. I have tried it on two different DELL's LCD and on Samsung XL2370-1. Fonts look the same on all monitors. I do not think it is a hardware issue. As I have already mentioned in the opening post, the fonts look perfectly fine on the XP Mode, which runs on the same system inside Win. 7 Ultimate. So the hardware is the same, but on XP fonts look normal, on Win 7, they do not.
 
Cyberbeing said:
You can find newer GDI++ builds (~1 year old) and even DirectWrite builds (~4 months old) here:
http://free.flop.jp/gdi++/upload.php
Click to expand...

Thanks but everything looks just fine on XP. It is not that I have an issue with the way fonts look on Windows in general, and I want them to resemble some other OS. I am just trying to figure out why Win. 7 fonts do not render correctly, and how to fix it.
 
Arainach said:
Indeed. My best guess would be monitor drivers. GPU drivers I doubt, since I'm running Win7 on a Sapphire 5770 without any such issues. I haven't seen these issues on any computer or monitor I've had running Win7, so I'm not sure what the cause could b.
Click to expand...

Could you or someone else on Win. 7 go to huffingtonpost.com and Drudgereport.com (they use large fonts for headlines) and take a screen grab of both and post it here for the comparison? I cannot imagine I am the only one with this issue. I Googled it and there is a pretty good number of people complaining about the fonts being blurry (starting with Vista and implementation of Clear Type), but I could not find anyone with my particular issue, which is strange since I use a conventional system with typical hardware, and on this same hardware everything looks fine on the XP Mode, but not on Win. 7 running the XP Mode. Very strange...
 
Arainach said:
Is this the stock OEM install, or did you install Win7 yourself?
Click to expand...

It is the stock OEM install from DELL. It is a brand new system from DELL (XPS 8100). I have not made any changes to it at all. I love Win. 7, it is so much better than Win. XP, but the fonts are killing me since I do web design and need the fonts to render correctly. I can, of course, just run everything in the XP Mode, but that is just silly and defeats the purpose of buying the new system with Win. 7.
 
Hi,

Same problem over here, brand new core i5 system , with windows 7 professional.
I get eye strain due to cleartype and did some registry edits to remove it from my system,
but that does the jopb for a good 80%, for example: browser fonts are still jagged

i'm very disapponted in M$ , don't fix what aint broken, windows xp did the job very well
nice and crisp fonts and no eye strain..

Did you manage to get it better?


Best

A
 
huffingtonpost.com and Drudgereport.com both look fine here on Windows 7. No jagged edges in sight.

Was this an OEM installation of Windows 7 from Dell? If so, i would have done a fresh install of Windows to get rid of whatever crap Dell might have installed on or done to the system.
 
arnberg said:
I get eye strain due to cleartype and did some registry edits to remove it from my system, but that does the jopb for a good 80%, for example: browser fonts are still jagged
Click to expand...
I don't understand. You disabled ClearType, which means you disabled font anti-aliasing, which means your font rendering should be aliased. That is the result of disabling ClearType.

If you want subpixel glyph anti-aliasing, leave ClearType enabled. If you want aliasing on glyphs, disable ClearType.

arnberg said:
i'm very disapponted in M$ , don't fix what aint broken, windows xp did the job very well nice and crisp fonts and no eye strain..
Click to expand...
GDI font smoothing was broken. It relied excessively on hinting to achieve satisfactory rendering at small font sizes. In Windows 7, you have either GDI+ or DirectWrite, the latter using bi-directional anti-aliasing so no hinting is required at small font sizes. The old font smoothing method is not in any way faithful to the original font, whereas the new ClearType method is.

I'm surprised the OP had to go to OS X to get decent text rendering, because in my opinion Windows 7 now has a very slight edge in the quality of its glyph rendering (though kerning is still fucking terrible compared to OS X).
 
How is your display connected? VGA, DVI, HDMI

I've seen instances where certain monitors advertise the ability to use non RGB color spaces over HDMI, but when the video card renders the image in those color spaces, the fonts are messed up. To fix it, go into the ATI catalyst control panel and verify that the video card is sending information to you monitor using RGB 4:4:4 pixel format rather than something else.
 
Yes, it was an OEM install from DELL. I have tried reinstalling everything. I tried two different monitors and I have tried installing a retail version of Windows 7 on a different machine. Same results. On the same machine, Windows XP mode looks just fine, so it is clearly Windows 7's issue.
 
You've bought a mac, that was my second thought also..but it takes me forever to get an even fast workflow,after 10 years of web-graphic design on a pc,

I disabled cleatype and did the registry edits, trying to achieve an exact xp style look and feel
almost al fonts replaced bij Tahoma..did tje job very well, but browser fonts are still jagged..

If someone can tell me how to achieve the windows xp style type display with a windows 7 system, (with or without cleartype) please help me out, I'm thinking about switching back to windows xp until M$ fixes this issue (in windows 8 maybe?)

I don't think it's a graphics card issue , but you never know..
I've bougt an ATI Radeon 6850 1GB ram , my monitor is a Lacie 120 hdmi connected
native resolution is 1600x1200

Thanks for your efforts,

(where is the mentioned RGB 4:4:4 pixel format setting?, in the catalist control panel?..)

Best

A
 
arnberg said:
You've bought a mac, that was my second thought also..but it takes me forever to get an even fast workflow after 10 years of web-graphic design on a pc.
Click to expand...

It is an easy switch. Plus, you can run Windows on a Mac.

If someone can tell me how to achieve the windows xp style type display with a windows 7 system, (with or without cleartype) please help me out, I'm thinking about switching back to windows xp until M$ fixes this issue (in windows 8 maybe?)
Click to expand...

One of the reasons why I switched to a Mac is because Microsoft does not think it is an issue. They think that ClearType is the best thing that has happened to font rendering in the last 10 years. Google ClearType and you will see MS's article about it. I do not get it. XP fonts look SO much better.
 
arnberg said:
I'm thinking about switching back to windows xp until M$ fixes this issue (in windows 8 maybe?)
Click to expand...
That won't happen. XP-style font smoothing is inferior to ClearType's subpixel anti-aliasing, particularly now that it's anti-aliasing along two axes in Windows 7 (as opposed to the single axis anti-aliasing in XP and Vista's ClearType/GDI+).

Microsoft is moving forward with Direct2D and DirectWrite, even though Direct2D is an abomination of an API, and that means ClearType-only.

arnberg said:
(where is the mentioned RGB 4:4:4 pixel format setting?, in the catalist control panel?..)
Click to expand...
I'll do a little research on this and let you know what I come up with.

Prof.Fulcanelli said:
One of the reasons why I switched to a Mac is because Microsoft does not think it is an issue. XP fonts look SO much better.
Click to expand...
ClearType's glyph rendering looks practically identical to OS X's rendering...when it works correctly.
 
Prof.Fulcanelli said:
it is clearly Windows 7's issue.
Click to expand...
Not really, I've never seen that issue on any system I've ever installed or used Windows 7 on.

Default install, font anti-aliasing works fine in the browser. This is an issue specific to something particular on your end, and is not a problem inherent to Windows 7.

Have you made sure it's not a problem with the version of Firefox you're using? Try Firefox 4 Beta11 and see how that looks...
 
Unknown-One said:
Default install, font anti-aliasing works fine in the browser. This is an issue specific to something particular on your end, and is not a problem inherent to Windows 7.

Have you made sure it's not a problem with the version of Firefox you're using? Try Firefox 4 Beta11 and see how that looks...
Click to expand...

Well, before I made my decision to ditch Win 7 for a Mac, I went to Best Buy and to check out other Win 7 systems. They all had the same issue, Sony, HP, etc., so it was not just my system, which made me think that it is a Win 7 issue.
 
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